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Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 711
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is woubit's Christmas puzzle for 2009. Proceed.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there an old piano? If not, what is there?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 712
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there an old piano? no If not, what is there? whereas some years ago now, it was I who introduced the concept of the "LTPF List" as shorthand for multiple questions of the form "Is it an A? Is it a B?..." I am not yet prepared to admit the notion of the LTPF List of Everything. What there is remains for me to know and for you to discover. The title of the puzzle may help.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 1260
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "what is there" question was a (rather oblique) test of whether it was a woubit *adventure* Christmas puzzle. I guess your answer is a rather resounding no. =)

Any people relevant? If so, HAM? If so, how many [LTPF of groups sizes]
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "what is there" question was a (rather oblique) test of whether it was a woubit *adventure* Christmas puzzle. I guess your answer is a rather resounding no. =) not resounding at all - in fact, I am not sure whether I would answer flatly "no", although on balance I probably would. But this is not a puzzle where solvers and the setter have roles to play in some kind of game.

Any people relevant? yes If so, HAM? at least one of them is If so, how many [LTPF of groups sizes] as yet I do not know, but I anticipate that the number of people involved will not exceed a dozen
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 738
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 1:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the LTPF relevant? Not more than a dozen of people=us?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 2:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there more than one possible solution to this puzzle? If so, are the solutions based on some characteristic of the solvers?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 714
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 3:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the LTPF relevant? no, except that I hope members of it will join in the puzzle Not more than a dozen of people=us? either you can't count or I can't, but I estimate the number of LTPF members at slightly greater than a dozen. Still, your estimate may be right for what are called "sufficiently large values of twelve"

Is there more than one possible solution to this puzzle? difficult question. woubit Christmas puzzles have all involved many conundrums to solve within a single context, and so does this one. But at each step, I know what I have in mind as "the puzzle", and there is only one "solution" (even though solvers always come up with much better solutions than mine) If so, are the solutions based on some characteristic of the solvers? no - that was last year's puzzle, and I am told by my six-month-old great-nephew that I should therefore describe it as "so 2008"
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a green door anywhere in this puzzle?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we have to identify people? and the number of people we have to identify will be determined by how many we figure out by the predetermined end date of the puzzle?

Are we now concerned with just one person? Who is HAM?

Is a piano relevant? Musical instruments? Christmas songs? Singers? Musicians?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Social events relevant?
Politics relevant?
Movies relevant?
Literature relevant?
Is the puzzle relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they play it hot behind the green door?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 716
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a green door anywhere in this puzzle? yes, indeed

Do we have to identify people? among other things, yes and the number of people we have to identify will be determined by how many we figure out by the predetermined end date of the puzzle? no

Are we now concerned with just one person? no, but there is at least one person involved... Who is HAM? ...who is to some extent human, not an adult, and a male

Is a piano relevant? no Musical instruments? some of these will be relevant, but the LTPF List of Musical Instruments will not avail you Christmas songs? no Singers? yes Musicians? no

Social events relevant? no
Politics relevant? no
Movies relevant? no
Literature relevant? not really
Is the puzzle relevant? no

Do they play it hot behind the green door? they do not, but...
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For anyone else who's as lost as I was, here are the lyrics to the old piano/green door song everyone seems to be referring to. I've never heard it. (http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/g/greendoor.shtml)

Is there something hidden that someone can't see?
Is someone laughing a lot?
Does someone not know what they're doing?
Did Joe send you? or send someone?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For anyone else who's as lost as I was, here are the lyrics to the old piano/green door song everyone seems to be referring to. I've never heard it. (http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/g/greendoor.shtml)

Is there something hidden that someone can't see? yes
Is someone laughing a lot? no
Does someone not know what they're doing? no
Did Joe send you? or send someone? neither
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the someone who can't see the hidden something the somewhat human boy?

Is the somewhat H non-adult male a child? Or a baby?

By somewhat human boy, do you mean an elf? A fairy? Pinocchio? Peter Pan? A boy who is a character in something? An imaginary friend?

Is the thing someone can't see an object? A person? A view?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the someone who can't see the hidden something the somewhat human boy? no

Is the somewhat H non-adult male a child? Or a baby? this one

By somewhat human boy, do you mean an elf? A fairy? Pinocchio? Peter Pan? A boy who is a character in something? An imaginary friend? I mean none of those

Is the thing someone can't see an object? yes A person? A view? the last is closer, but not really very close at all
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this "the kind of puzzle where the answer changes daily" (quotation from another puzzle)? (I wasn't here last Christmas...)
A choir relevant? church choir?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this "the kind of puzzle where the answer changes daily" (quotation from another puzzle)? no (I wasn't here last Christmas...)
A choir relevant? not at this stage, no church choir? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the baby boy Jesus? is the Nativity relevant? are any of these relevant - angels? shepherds? kings? presents? sheep? a stable?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the baby boy Jesus? yes, indeed is the Nativity relevant? yes are any of these relevant - angels? shepherds? kings? presents? sheep? a stable? not at this stage in the proceedings, no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the thing that is hidden from view the nativity scene? Part of it? Someone in it?

Is it hidden from the view of someone in the scene? Of someone else? Baby Jesus being "hidden" from Herod relevant?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a star that this "someone" can't see?
Is Jesus just born? this very day?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so is Jesus still in utero at the time of the puzzle? being born? just born? is the journey to Bethlehem relevant? the donkey ride? looking for a room at the inn? being refused? the census relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Carols involved? Hymns? Prayers?

Is it the infant Jesus?

I'm an atheist of Jewish upbringing, and have never read much of the New Testament. Is knowledge of the NT or Xmas traditions required to solve?

You don't know how many people are involved, but you estimate around a dozen will turn up. This will occur in the process of solving this puzzle? Are all of the dozen contemporaries of Jesus? Are they all human? Or are they some sort of abstraction (like "mankind"?)

Are the location and time period relevant? Is this actually set in or around 4 BC, in or near Palestine?

Any sciences involved (like astronomy) or pseudosciences (like astrology)?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the green door on an advent calender? Hiding a picture of the crib? Is this an ADVENTure puzzle?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Inspired Lynne . That deserves to be right.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the green door on an advent calender? Hiding a picture of the crib? Is this an ADVENTure puzzle? it is indeed, and for that reason I will not provide answers to the other questions above, but thank you all for submitting them. Now then:

This is the LTPF 2009 Advent Calendar.

For those not familiar with the custom, Advent in the Christian liturgical calendar is the period before Christmas that begins on whichever Sunday falls between November 25th and December 3rd, so this year, the first Sunday in Advent was November 29th. An Advent calendar is two pieces of cardboard superimposed, with the top layer holding 24 doors and the bottom layer 24 pictures. One door is opened on each of the first 24 days in December to reveal a picture related in some way to Christmas.

It is now December 5th, and five doors on the LTPF calendar have already been opened.

Behind the first is a picture of a pair of ballet shoes.

Behind the second is a picture of a bakery standing in the shadow of a windmill.

Behind the third is a picture of a cockerel in full voice.

Behind the fourth is a picture of a man dressed in a white coat standing on one leg.

Behind the fifth is a picture of Robert Fischer and Boris Spassky.

Now, these pictures do not seem to have a great deal to do with Christmas at the moment. But of course, this is a puzzle calendar, and your mission is to determine exactly how each of these pictures does in fact relate to Christmas.

As usual in woubit Christmas puzzles, any and all reference aids may be freely used. Good luck.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The ballet shoes: referring to one specific ballet? Nutcracker? A Christmas Carol? The Christmas Ballet? Snow Queen?

Bakery/Windmill: any specific bakery relevant? "Windmill Bakery"? Christmas cakes/cookies relevant?

Cockerel: Waking people for the early Christmas Service? Being served for Christmas dinner?

Man in white coat: Movie "Christmas Story" relevant?

Fischer/Spassky: Chess relevant? Iceland?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ballet shoes = the Nutcracker?

Will you be providing a sixth picture tomorrow, a seventh on Monday, and so on?

Are puns involved? Synonyms?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The ballet shoes: referring to one specific ballet? no Nutcracker? A Christmas Carol? The Christmas Ballet? Snow Queen? and therefore to none of these

Bakery/Windmill: any specific bakery relevant? no "Windmill Bakery"? no Christmas cakes/cookies relevant? no

Cockerel: Waking people for the early Christmas Service? no, but this is closer to the truth than... Being served for Christmas dinner? ...this

Man in white coat: Movie "Christmas Story" relevant? no

Fischer/Spassky: Chess relevant? yes Iceland? no

Ballet shoes = the Nutcracker? no

Will you be providing a sixth picture tomorrow, a seventh on Monday, and so on? I hope so, at any rate

Are puns involved? in some cases Synonyms? in other cases
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does each picture have a relation to Christmas in itself. through one or more steps, without relation to/combination with any other of the pictures? So with five open doors we have five different relations to Christmas?

Chess musical relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does each picture have a relation to Christmas in itself. through one or more steps, without relation to/combination with any other of the pictures? yes So with five open doors we have five different relations to Christmas? precisely so

Chess musical relevant? no
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any other language than English relevant? for instance French?
Any relevance to the number on each door? the date they represent?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any other language than English relevant? vaguely for instance French? no
Any relevance to the number on each door? no the date they represent? no - these five pictures could have come in any order
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, December 05, 2009 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...like "Ballet Shoes" is written by Noel Streatfield?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow - so this is not a chocolate filled Barbie Advent Calender? Good!

Chess - anything to do with the King? Jesus the King of the Jews? Or the Queen - Mary the Queen of Heaven? Bishop - St Nicholas was a Bishop? Pawn - served with Thousand Island Sauce at any self-respecting 1970s restaurant. Sorry, that should be prawns.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...like "Ballet Shoes" is written by Noel Streatfield? no, but that is a pretty good piece of the right kind of thinking

Chess - anything to do with the King? no Jesus the King of the Jews? Or the Queen - Mary the Queen of Heaven? no Bishop - St Nicholas was a Bishop? indeed he was, and he is indeed important, but not for being a bishop... Pawn ...this, though, is on the right lines - served with Thousand Island Sauce at any self-respecting 1970s restaurant. Sorry, that should be prawns.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The man in a white coat - anything to do with cricket?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The man in a white coat - anything to do with cricket? yes, indeed
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The white-coated cricketeer, does he hold up the other leg? or does he only have one leg? relevant?
Pawn-shop relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The umpire David Shepherd? Connection to Christmas being The Good Shepherd?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, another connection. David - Jesus was from the line of David.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Christmas Eve "Mass of the Rooster" relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the bakery in the shadow of Mount Pleasant Windmill?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe we could go from that white-coated man to "Jiminy Cricket", at least in Sweden he presents excerpts from Disney movies every Christmas Eve...?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The white-coated cricketer, FA, but help is at hand - see below does he hold up the other leg? yes or does he only have one leg? no relevant? yes Pawn-shop relevant? yes, indeed

The umpire David Shepherd? quite so - well done Connection to Christmas being The Good Shepherd? but not quite so

Oh, another connection. David - Jesus was from the line of David. indeed he was, but this is not what is meant by the picture of umpire David Shepherd on the LTPF Advent calendar

The Christmas Eve "Mass of the Rooster" relevant? no, but a most impressive piece either of knowledge or of research

Is the bakery in the shadow of Mount Pleasant Windmill? it is not
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Maybe we could go from that white-coated man to "Jiminy Cricket", at least in Sweden he presents excerpts from Disney movies every Christmas Eve...? an inspired piece of thinking - as I said, the solvers of woubit Christmas puzzles invariably outdo the setter in ingenuity and imagination. Not right, as it happens, but no less inspired for that.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

St Nicholas was the patron saint of Pawn Brokers.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

St Nicholas was the patron saint of Pawn Brokers. indeed he was, and that is the reason why Saint Nicholas - or Santa Claus, perhaps from his Dutch name Sinterklaas - is represented on the LTPF Advent Calendar by a couple of famous chess players or (at least, in the silly imagination of a woubit) "pawnbrokers".

December 6th is the feast of Saint Nicholas, an important part of the Christmas celebrations in many countries. If anyone from any of them is reading this puzzle, my best wishes to you.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

David Shepherd would stand on one leg if the score was 111 as it was considered bad luck and would remain there until the score moved on. But I can't yet work out what that has to do with Christmas.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

David Shepherd would stand on one leg if the score was 111 as it was considered bad luck and would remain there until the score moved on. But I can't yet work out what that has to do with Christmas. indeed he would, and that is certainly relevant. Fear not - either the solution will come to you, or Peter365 will come to us with the answer sometime tomorrow.
Lynne (Lynne)
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David Shepherd was known for having a Father Christmas like appearance?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What crew the cockerel
On Christmas morn?
It crew Christus natus est!
Loudly Christus natus est!
Gladly Christus natus est!
Christ, the Christ is born!
Woubit (Woubit)
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David Shepherd was known for having a Father Christmas like appearance? perhaps he was, but Father Christmas has already been represented on this calendar by the chessplayers

What crew the cockerel
On Christmas morn?
It crew Christus natus est!
Loudly Christus natus est!
Gladly Christus natus est!
Christ, the Christ is born!

that wasn't a cockerel. That was a parrot who, because he could speak Latin and English with equal facility, went by the name of Polly Glot.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamlet relevant? The cockerel crowed from Christmas Eve to Christmas Morning?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamlet relevant? no The cockerel crowed from Christmas Eve to Christmas Morning? indeed it did. Moreover: there was "not a mouse stirring"; a king appeared who boded "some strange eruption to our state"; Hamlet himself was dressed in "suits of woe" doubtless given to him by his aunts and soon to be returned to Marks and Spencers; and everyone had cold leftovers to eat. It had not previously occurred to me (nor, perhaps, to any Shakespearean scholar) that the play was really all about Christmas, but I am grateful to you for drawing my attention to the fact.
Noel (Noel)
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Ballet shoes --> a dance? a ballot? dancers? Nine ladies dancing, perhaps? The color pink relevant? If relevant, are they toe shoes? Or flats?

I had to look up cockerel, and saw that it was a rooster younger than one year. Relevant that it was a young male? Or would a picture of a rooster work as well?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To recapitulate:

Thanks to Lynne's inspired insight, this puzzle has now been revealed as the LTPF Advent Calendar for 2009.

One door on the calendar will be opened each day from December 1st to December 24th.

Behind each door is a picture that, as with traditional Advent calendars, is related to Christmas. However, the relationship between the picture and Christmas is not immediately obvious (or at least, I hope that it is not) and to solve the puzzle, you need to discover why each picture really does represent some part of Christmas tradition.

The state of play this morning is as follows:

Behind the first door is a picture of a pair of ballet shoes. You know only that no particular ballet is involved in the relationship between this picture and Christmas.

Behind the second door is a picture of a bakery standing in the shadow of a windmill. You know only that this is a non-specific bakery; moreover, it stands in the shadow of no specific windmill.

Behind the third door is a picture of a cockerel in full voice. You know that this is not the bird who sang of the birth of Christ in English and in Latin. Apart from that, you don't know much, but you might explore other languages...

Behind the fourth door is a picture of a man dressed in a white coat standing on one leg. You know that this is the cricket umpire David Shepherd, who is standing on one leg because the batting side has reached a total of precisely 111. You know also that the relevance of this is not because he is a shepherd, nor that his name is David, nor that he bears some physical resemblance to Father Christmas.

Behind the fifth door is a picture of Robert Fischer and Boris Spassky. You know all that there is to be known about this, again thanks to the inspired Lynne. Fischer and Spassky were chess players, or "pawnbrokers" (think about it), and Saint Nicholas - Father Christmas himself - was the patron saint of pawnbrokers (among many, many other things).

Behind the sixth door is a portrait of the Irish poet William Butler Yeats. You know nothing about this at all, because the green door (see preamble) behind which it appears has only just been opened.

As usual, all aids to reference may be fully and freely used.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 4:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

6th door --> Is the poem "The Second Coming" relevant? Particularly the last couple of lines, about something being born in Bethlehem?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 4:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the windmill in Holland? Does the windmill provide power for something associated with the bakery?
Woubit (Woubit)
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6th door --> Is the poem "The Second Coming" relevant? Particularly the last couple of lines, about something being born in Bethlehem? no, but a brilliant elimination of a red herring. As I have had occasion to mention before (at least every Christmas) about the people on the LTPF, you guys are good.

Is the windmill in Holland? yes Does the windmill provide power for something associated with the bakery? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 5:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bakery --> are any of the following baked treats relevant: Letter cake? Peppernoot? A Dutch Christmas Ring Cake?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 5:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, you missed my questions from just before your big recapitulation (q's about ballet shoes and the cockerel).
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 5:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bakery --> are any of the following baked treats relevant: no Letter cake? Peppernoot? A Dutch Christmas Ring Cake? as a clue, for you deserve one, the thing about the bakery is purely and simply that it is a Dutch bakery. What it bakes is neither here nor there.

Also, you missed my questions from just before your big recapitulation (q's about ballet shoes and the cockerel).

My apologies

Ballet shoes --> a dance? a ballot? dancers? Nine ladies dancing, perhaps? The color pink relevant? If relevant, are they toe shoes? Or flats? none of those, I'm afraid. Seems like a dream now, it was so long ago...

I had to look up cockerel, and saw that it was a rooster younger than one year. Relevant that it was a young male? Or would a picture of a rooster work as well? well it was said by the bard:

I sometimes think I'd rather crow
And be a rooster than I'd roost
And be a crow. But I dunno.

A rooster he can roost also,
Which don't seem fair when crows can't crow.
Which may help some. But I dunno.

Crows should be glad of one thing, though:
Nobody thinks of eating crow,
While roosters, they are good enough
For anyone - unless they're tough.

There's lots of tough old roosters, though,
And anyhow a crow can't crow.
So mebbe roosters stand more show.
It looks that way. But I dunno.


The exact age of the bird in question does not matter all that much, look you.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 6:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speculaas (Dutch Windmill) shortcrust biscuits are eaten on December 5th on St Nicholas (Sinterklass) Eve in Holland.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 7:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

William Butler Yeats wrote a poem called The Magi
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it even relevant about the bakery that it is a bakery? or just that it is Dutch? could it have been another house and a windmill?

The male vocal group "Chanticleer" has made a CD called "Sing We Christmas" and one "A Chanticleer Christmas"... ;-)

Is it the work of William Yeats that is relevant for the puzzle? or his name?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the fact that the cricket score of 111 or any multiples thereof is known as Nelson relevant? Or the fact that it is considered unlucky is because each figure one represents the three cricket stumps? Australian cricketers consider the number 87 (thirteen shy of 100) unlucky. Is this relevant?

Just a wild thought, are The Beatles relevant? They had 3 christmas number ones in a row and this could be a sort of cryptic Nelson?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Speculaas (Dutch Windmill) shortcrust biscuits are eaten on December 5th on St Nicholas (Sinterklass) Eve in Holland. indeed they are, but the relevance of the bakery is only that it is a bakery - what it produces does not matter much

William Butler Yeats wrote a poem called The Magi he did, and that might have been the answer but for the fact that it isn't. The actual answer is buried rather more deeply than that, in a single line of a poem by Yeats that has nothing to do with Christmas per se.

Is it even relevant about the bakery that it is a bakery? yes or just that it is Dutch? and especially that it is Dutch could it have been another house no and a windmill? the windmill does not really matter - it was put there only to give the clue that this is a Dutch bakery

The male vocal group "Chanticleer" has made a CD called "Sing We Christmas" and one "A Chanticleer Christmas"... ;-) have they, by golly?

Is it the work of William Yeats that is relevant for the puzzle? this one or his name? and not this one

Is the fact that the cricket score of 111 or any multiples thereof is known as Nelson relevant? very much so, indeed Or the fact that it is considered unlucky is because each figure one represents the three cricket stumps? no Australian cricketers consider the number 87 (thirteen shy of 100) unlucky. Is this relevant? no - doubtless when batting against England, Australians also regard 687 as unlucky

Just a wild thought, are The Beatles relevant? no They had 3 christmas number ones in a row and this could be a sort of cryptic Nelson? indeed it could, but you need only consider the life of Admiral Nelson
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeats' poem. Is it Upon a Dying Lady? Her friends bring her a Christmas tree.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Yeats' poem. Is it Upon a Dying Lady? Her friends bring her a Christmas tree. they do, but again the solution is hidden rather more deeply than this. The line of verse in question is one of Yeats's better known, and the poem itself, though not relevant to Christmas, includes some element of the divine.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A Prayer on Going into my House

No table or chair or stool not simple enough
For shepherd lads in Galilee - would these represent the shepherds to whom the angels sang?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At least when I make an ass of myself I'm in good company, having the honour to transport Mary to Bethlehem and Jesus into Jerusalem.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A Prayer on Going into my House not that, but good thinking indeed

At least when I make an ass of myself I'm in good company, having the honour to transport Mary to Bethlehem and Jesus into Jerusalem. time, perhaps, for some rather weightier poetry than I normally deliver, but your senitment was very well expressed by:

When fishes flew and forests walked
And figs grew upon thorn,
Some moment when the moon was blood
Then surely I was born

With monstrous head and sickening cry
And ears like errant wings,
The devil's walking parody
On all four-footed things.

The tattered outlaw of the earth,
Of ancient crooked will.
Starve, scourge, deride me - I am dumb,
I keep my secret still.

Fools! For I also had my hour -
One far fierce hour and sweet:
There was a shout about my ears,
And palms before my feet.


G K Chesterton, The Donkey
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

2/12: Any relevance to the Christmas story "The Three Skaters"?

The ballet shoes - are they just representing "dance"? or a place where ballet is performed? or a ballet dancer? famous ballet dancer? male? female?
Or is "ballet" not relevant at all? could they be any shoes?
Painyings with ballet motifs relevant? Books/poetry concerning ballet relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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2/12: Any relevance to the Christmas story "The Three Skaters"? no, but more good thinking. I remind you, though, that in woubit Christmas puzzles, things are often hidden more than one level below the surface. The Dutch bakery in question neither bakes Christmas goods nor has any relevance to Christmas as such. It's a Dutch bakery, no more, no less.

The ballet shoes - are they just representing "dance"? no or a place where ballet is performed? no or a ballet dancer? yes - now we're cooking with gas famous ballet dancer? indeed male? female? this one
Or is "ballet" not relevant at all? could they be any shoes? they could not
Painyings with ballet motifs relevant?no Books/poetry concerning ballet relevant? no - just a dancer
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Margot Fonteyn? Darcey Bussell?
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Anna Pavlova relevant? Tamara Karsavina? Svetlana Zakharova? Marie Taglioni?
"Dame Margot Fonteyn de Arias" relevant (she was born hookham)?
Is the relevant female dancer living now? from 20th century? 19th? earlier?
Noel (Noel)
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Anna Pavlova? Martha Graham? Marie Camargo? Olga Preobrajenska? Pierina Legnani? Avdotia Istomina?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For the bakery, any of the following relevant?... Going dutch? Dutch oven? The cuisine of a particular region of the Netherlands? A particular city? The fact that part of the country is below sea level? The fact that marijuana is legal in Amsterdam?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bonus question: which one of those I mentioned was born in Sweden?

With "The Three Skaters" I thought I was more than one level from a bakery and a windmill...


The cockerel: any connection between it and religion relevant? with any specific country? with a person? with a performance? an event?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Margot Fonteyn? Darcey Bussell? neither of these, but...

Anna Pavlova relevant? ...this one Tamara Karsavina? Svetlana Zakharova? Marie Taglioni?
"Dame Margot Fonteyn de Arias" relevant (she was born hookham)?
Is the relevant female dancer living now? from 20th century? 19th? earlier? Anna Pavlova died in 1931

Anna Pavlova? see above Martha Graham? Marie Camargo? Olga Preobrajenska? Pierina Legnani? Avdotia Istomina?

For the bakery, any of the following relevant?... Going dutch? Dutch oven? The cuisine of a particular region of the Netherlands? A particular city? The fact that part of the country is below sea level? The fact that marijuana is legal in Amsterdam? none of the above. Think literally rather than laterally for a moment.

Bonus question: which one of those I mentioned was born in Sweden? never heard of Marie Taglioni, so perhaps it was she. Fonteyn was born in Reigate, which is not yet in Sweden, although a couple of centuries of global warming may change that. Zakharova is Ukrainian.

With "The Three Skaters" I thought I was more than one level from a bakery and a windmill... well, perhaps. But "The Three Skaters" concerns an actual baker by trade. This puzzle does not.

The cockerel: any connection between it and religion relevant? no, not really with any specific country? yes, indeed with a person? no with a performance? yes an event? well, "event" is so vague a word that I will answer "yes" anyway
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeats poem "A prayer on going into my house" mentions "Shepherd lads in Galilee" could it be this?

If not I'll rattle off a few of my favourites, Lake Isle of Innisfree? Easter 1916? Aedh wishes for the cloths of heaven? Sailing to Byzantium?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the only relevant thing out of the bakery and the windmill is that it is something in Holland? Although you said earlier that it is a Dutch bakery, no more no less, the baker and the baked items are irrelevant?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so we have Ballet Shoes -> Anna Pavlova...
Relevant that she's famous for playing a Swan?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Sorry didn't spot that Lynne had beaten me to it with a prayer on going into my house.
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...or should we leave ballet and go a step from Anna Pavlova to something unrelated to ballet? related to her name? going to Pavlov? and Pavlov's dog?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not to worry, Peter! I confess that Yeats had slipped underneath my radar until now; only another 425 poems to go... ;-)
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Otherwise I had a path from Dame Margot Fonteyn -> Rudolf Nurejev -> a certain red-nosed reindeer...
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeats poem "A prayer on going into my house" mentions "Shepherd lads in Galilee" could it be this?

If not I'll rattle off a few of my favourites, Lake Isle of Innisfree? Easter 1916? Aedh wishes for the cloths of heaven? this one - now then... Sailing to Byzantium?

So the only relevant thing out of the bakery and the windmill is that it is something in Holland? Although you said earlier that it is a Dutch bakery, no more no less, the baker and the baked items are irrelevant? well, the relevant thing is that it is a bakery in Holland. The baker and the baked do not matter one iota.

OK, so we have Ballet Shoes -> Anna Pavlova...
Relevant that she's famous for playing a Swan? no - relevant only that she is Anna Pavlova, who...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pavlov's dogs - I did a puzzle once on the same experiment being done on goldfish, but working that into a Christmas theme is a fish too far.
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Anna Pavlova -> Russia? other country relevant (she died in Netherlands - at a bakery?)?
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...or should we leave ballet and go a step from Anna Pavlova to something unrelated to ballet? indeed you should related to her name? very much so going to Pavlov? and Pavlov's dog? no - just stick with what you have

Otherwise I had a path from Dame Margot Fonteyn -> Rudolf Nurejev -> a certain red-nosed reindeer... splendid thinking, but Pavlova died seven years before Nureyev was born
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Anna Pavlova -> Russia? other country relevant (she died in Netherlands - at a bakery?)? no, but I suppose that some baked goods might in this case be relevant. Just as some woubit puzzles are further from the surface than you might expect, others are nearer...
Peter365 (Peter365)
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The fact that the Pavlova dessert is named after her? Is it traditional as a christmas desert in some countries?
Lynne (Lynne)
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The food Pavlova?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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We probably being a bit overactive on this puzzle leading to some cross posting?

Here is the beautiful poem by Yeats. Haven't figured out the christmas link yet....

Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths,
Enwrought with golden and silver light,
The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
Of night and light and the half light,
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dream
Woubit (Woubit)
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The fact that the Pavlova dessert is named after her? by George, he's got it Is it traditional as a Christmas desert in some countries? it is indeed, and to save you the trouble, I will tell you that in Australia and New Zealand, Pavlova is the equivalent of Christmas pudding.

The first and the fifth doors of the LTPF 2009 Advent Calendar are now solved - behind the first is a Christmas pudding, behind the fifth is Father Christmas. The seventh will be opened tomorrow, but you still have much with which to work.
Lynne (Lynne)
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I did find that one, Peter, and it's lovely, but like you haven't figured out the Christmas connection.
Noel (Noel)
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Anna Pavlova has a dessert named after her (Pavlova) that, according to Wikipedia, is frequently served at Christmas.
Noel (Noel)
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Dang, guess I was a bit slow on that one!
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Peter365: If you think so, you can stop by at my puzzles for a while... ;-)

Cockerel: did I understand correctly that here we should think about another language than English? which is not French? a European language?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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16 posts in 22 minutes . Is this an LTPF record?

Have to go to bed now I have to get up at 6. There'll probably be another 100 posts by the time I get back to this.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Is the Dutch word for bakery relevant? bakkerij
Woubit (Woubit)
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We probably being a bit overactive on this puzzle leading to some cross posting? oh, not to worry - better too many questions than too few

Here is the beautiful poem by Yeats. Haven't figured out the Christmas link yet....

Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths,
Enwrought with golden and silver light,
The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
Of night and light and the half light,
I would spread the cloths under your feet:
But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams


Beautiful indeed, and woe betide the cynical bard who wrote the abridged version:

Had I the heaven's embroidered cloths,
No doubt they'd all be full of moths.


The "Christmas link" here is buried deep, and cannot be gleaned from a literal inspection of the poem. But as Jenburdoo perceptively asked, puns and synonyms play a part in this puzzle...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Peter - there were once four posts in one minute...
Woubit (Woubit)
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Cockerel: did I understand correctly that here we should think about another language than English? you did which is not French? it is not a European language? it is indeed

Is the Dutch word for bakery relevant? yes, but... bakkerij ...not this word
Noel (Noel)
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Cloths of heaven --> swaddling clothes for the baby Jesus? Robes worn by angels?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Could "broodwinkel" or "bakkerswinkel" be relevant then? (seems to mean "bread shop" more than bakery, but...
Maybe gebak?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The 6th line is relevant because it the first one without the letter L in it. The First Noel so to speak?

After that silly post I really am going to bed now.
Lynne (Lynne)
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gebakken - baked
bakker - baker
baksel - baking

Any of these, or is there another word for bakery itself that we should be looking for?
Lynne (Lynne)
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I don't care if it's wrong, or that this is not a democracy, but I vote for Peter's First Noel.
Lynne (Lynne)
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even though there is in fact an L in the 6th row. When did we ever let the truth get in the way of a good answer?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it one single word in the Yeats poem that is relevant for fonding The Next Step? Maybe Aedh himself? then going to sun? fire?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Maybe I should go to sleep as well, my schpellink is becoming worse by the minute...
Woubit (Woubit)
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Cloths of heaven --> swaddling clothes for the baby Jesus? Robes worn by angels? no - again, this link is obscure, and cannot be found by reading the poem literally

Could "broodwinkel" or "bakkerswinkel" be relevant then? (seems to mean "bread shop" more than bakery, but...
Maybe gebak? none of these, but it is true that you need some word other than simply "bakken" or derivatives thereof to complete the actual Dutch word you seek

The 6th line is relevant because it the first one without the letter L in it. The First Noel so to speak? once again, my admiration for the ingenuity of those who solve woubit Christmas puzzles is close to unbounded. That particular solution is not right, but it deserves to be.

gebakken - baked
bakker - baker
baksel - baking

Any of these, or is there another word for bakery itself that we should be looking for? there is, and you should perhaps recall that in former days prior to mass production, such tasks as baking for a village or town were carried out in a domestic rather than an industrial setting...

I don't care if it's wrong, or that this is not a democracy, but I vote for Peter's First Noel. oh, I would vote for it also and wish I had thought of it. And yet, unimaginative woubit though I am, this puzzle is a poor thing but mine own, so I must with regret dismiss Peter's solution.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Is it one single word in the Yeats poem that is relevant for finding The Next Step? no - there are precisely two relevant words, that appear consecutively Maybe Aedh himself? then going to sun? fire? not this kind of thing
Noel (Noel)
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kitchen = keuken
oven = kachel
Woubit (Woubit)
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kitchen = keuken
oven = kachel you have descended from the general to the specific. Reverse direction, and...
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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"embroidered cloths" would get my vote for two important consecutive words by Yeats, would it get your Christmas vote?
Noel (Noel)
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Other possible consecutive words that might mean something...
silver light --> ? tinsel?
dark cloths --> ?
half light --> ? Might have something to do with Christmas supposedly being the longest night of the year originally?
being poor --> ?
tread softly --> ?

I like "embroidered cloths" though...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 1:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have spread - your mother always had crab paste on sandwiches for Christmas tea?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Back to the Netherlands: "Bakhuis"?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Baking day - baksel dag ?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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While it doesn't really fit with the clues, I like "peperkoek huizen"... ...I'll ask anyway if it's relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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cockerel

German - junger Hahn
Dutch - jonge haan
Italian - galletto
Portugese - galo novo
Spanish - pollo

Any of these?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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"pollo" in Spanish? I thought it would be gallo?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Tommyp - according to Yahoo's Babelfish translator it's pollo, but I bow to your superior knowledge as I wouldn't have the foggiest.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Nelson's life

After he was killed his body was preserved in brandy. Brandy butter is a popular addition to the Christmas table.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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I notice the Yeats poem is referenced in a film starring Christian Bale -- relevant?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Lynne: don't bow too early, I'm not Hispanic-speaking... ;-) but I think it should be gallo or gallo joven, thought reinforced by how it's written in Italian/Portugese, pollo should be chicken...

Ahhh, Nelson was "bottled"...
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Re Yeats:

Are the two words tread softly the relevant ones? Is walking in the air by Aled Jones relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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"embroidered cloths" would get my vote for two important consecutive words by Yeats, would it get your Christmas vote? not on this occasion

Other possible consecutive words that might mean something...
silver light --> ? tinsel?
dark cloths --> ?
half light --> ? Might have something to do with Christmas supposedly being the longest night of the year originally?
being poor --> ?
tread softly --> ? this one

I like "embroidered cloths" though... oh, nothing wrong with them at all, but...

Have spread - your mother always had crab paste on sandwiches for Christmas tea? most ingenious. Not in any way true, of course, but most ingenious.

Back to the Netherlands: "Bakhuis"? excellent, and more than close enough. The actual word I have in mind is "Bakhuizen", and you may proceed from there.

Baking day - baksel dag ? no - what was needed, and what Tommy has found, is "baking house"

While it doesn't really fit with the clues, I like "peperkoek huizen"... ...I'll ask anyway if it's relevant? it is not

German - junger Hahn
Dutch - jonge haan
Italian - galletto
Portugese - galo novo
Spanish - pollo

Any of these? none of those. The language in question would not perhaps primarily be thought of as a "European language", but it certainly is one.

Tommyp - according to Yahoo's Babelfish translator it's pollo, but I bow to your superior knowledge as I wouldn't have the foggiest. pollo is the word for chicken; gallo is the word for rooster; either is acceptable since both are equally irrelevant

Nelson's life

After he was killed his body was preserved in brandy. Brandy butter is a popular addition to the Christmas table. so it is, although I confess that I am rapidly going off the idea

I notice the Yeats poem is referenced in a film starring Christian Bale -- relevant? no, but good thinking

Are the two words tread softly the relevant ones? they are indeed Is walking in the air by Aled Jones relevant? it is not, but another piece of good thinking.

This morning, the seventh door on the LTPF Advent Calendar was opened to reveal a picture of a Bible open at a passage from the Old Testament.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would synonyms of Tread or Softly help us establish the connection to Christmas. For tread - Walk? Step?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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is the painter Bakhuizen relevant?
Noel (Noel)
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Is the OT passage in [LTPF list of Old Testament Books]?

Is the European Language (for rooster) an Eastern European Language? Romance? Norse? Mediterranean?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tread softly is also an anagram of lofty treads which puts me in mind of St Wencelas and his trusty page, who, being weaker and who would no doubt tread more softly than his master, was told to follow in his master's footsteps.

Mark my footsteps, my good page
Tread thou in them boldly
Thou shalt find the winter's rage
Freeze thy blood less coldly
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, December 07, 2009 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How about suckling pig? Nelson's mother's maiden name was Suckling and roast stuffed suckling pig is a traditional Christmas entree in many northern European countries.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Could go on guessing for cockerel: petushok? (which leads to Rimsky-Korsakov...), kogucik? (which leads me nowhere), kohoutek? (which is a well-known comet, also a name of an album by Bill Carroll -> Christmas "Carrolls")
Lynne (Lynne)
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Just to earth it a bit more, after his mother's death her brother Captain Suckling looked after Nelson and sent him on voyages.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Would synonyms of Tread or Softly help us establish the connection to Christmas. very much so, indeed For tread - Walk? Step? neither of those

is the painter Bakhuizen relevant? certainly

Is the OT passage in [LTPF list of Old Testament Books]? it is in the Book of Numbers

Is the European Language (for rooster) an Eastern European Language? Romance? Norse? Mediterranean? none of those
Beroean (Beroean)
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Sorry, I have entered late in the proceedings and may have missed a good number of things but..

Are either of these relevant:
Micah?
The Dead Sea?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Tread softly is also an anagram of lofty treads which puts me in mind of St Wencelas and his trusty page, who, being weaker and who would no doubt tread more softly than his master, was told to follow in his master's footsteps. indeed, and a very fine piece of thinking. Not right, sadly.

How about suckling pig? Nelson's mother's maiden name was Suckling and roast stuffed suckling pig is a traditional Christmas entree in many northern European countries. indeed, but the relevant fact about Nelson's life is not as obscure as either his mother's maiden name or the fact that he was preserved in brandy after death

Could go on guessing for cockerel: petushok? (which leads to Rimsky-Korsakov...), kogucik? (which leads me nowhere), kohoutek? (which is a well-known comet, also a name of an album by Bill Carroll -> Christmas "Carrolls") all very fine words for cockerel and very plausible connenctions to Christmas. All wrong, as it happens, but worthy answers indeed.

Just to earth it a bit more, after his mother's death her brother Captain Suckling looked after Nelson and sent him on voyages. did he, by gosh?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Sorry, I have entered late in the proceedings and may have missed a good number of things have no fear - there will be a good number of other things between now and Christmas Day but..

Are either of these relevant:
Micah? no
The Dead Sea? and no
Noel (Noel)
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Numbers: Is the passage within any of the following sections?
- Numbering of the people at Sinai?
- Journey from Sinai to Moab?
- Preparations for crossing the Jordan?

Are any of the following events or things relevant?
- Murmuring about hardships?
- Consecration of the Levites for service to the tabernacle?
- Making two silver trumpets?
- sending out spies?
- "flowing with milk and honey"?
- having to wander in the wilderness for 40 years?
- Aaron's rod?
- Moses striking the rock?
- Fiery serpents?
- Conquest of Midian?
- Prescribing feast days?
- Dividing up the land among the tribes?
- The promised land?
- The Priestly Blessing, Numbers 6:24–26(The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace.)?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Numbers: Is the passage within any of the following sections?
- Numbering of the people at Sinai?
- Journey from Sinai to Moab?
- Preparations for crossing the Jordan? this one

Are any of the following events or things relevant?
- Murmuring about hardships?
- Consecration of the Levites for service to the tabernacle?
- Making two silver trumpets?
- sending out spies?
- "flowing with milk and honey"?
- having to wander in the wilderness for 40 years?
- Aaron's rod?
- Moses striking the rock?
- Fiery serpents?
- Conquest of Midian?
- Prescribing feast days?
- Dividing up the land among the tribes?
- The promised land?
- The Priestly Blessing, Numbers 6:24–26(The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace.)? none of these, I'm afraid. For all that, the relevant passage of the Book of Numbers comprises almost certainly the most famous four words in that scripture...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Is Balaam's donkey relevant to the puzzle?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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With apologies for sledgehammer approach...

Synonyms of Tread - Tramp? Amble? Stamp? Stride? Pace? Footstep? Gait? March? Hike? Hoof? Pace? Track ? Trace? Traipse? Trudge? Troop?


As for Bakhuizen. All I can find is that he painted a picture of Christ on the Sea of Galilee. Is this relevant?
Noel (Noel)
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(Numbers) More famous than "flowing with milk and honey" or "The lord bless you and keep you"? Really? Or is it not the most famous verse, just the most famous four-word phrase?

Is Miriam relevant?
"Please, God, Heal Her"?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Is Balaam's donkey relevant to the puzzle? no

Synonyms of Tread - Tramp? Amble? Stamp? Stride? Pace? Footstep? Gait? March? Hike? Hoof? Pace? Track ? Trace? Traipse? Trudge? Troop? none of these, I am afraid. You are looking for far too specific a term - if I were you, I would concentrate instead on synoyms of "softly" in the context of treading or walking...

As for Bakhuizen. All I can find is that he painted a picture of Christ on the Sea of Galilee. Is this relevant? no, but he painted a lot of other things as well, mostly to do with the sea...

(Numbers) More famous than "flowing with milk and honey" or "The lord bless you and keep you"? Really? I should say so, although this may be a matter of opinion Or is it not the most famous verse, just the most famous four-word phrase? that is the general idea, yes

Is Miriam relevant? no
"Please, God, Heal Her"? not this kind of thing
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tread softly = tiptoe?
Noel (Noel)
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Also, continuing on the Numbers track...
Is the verse a prophesy? A command? A prayer? A blessing? A description? An action?
Does it have to do with a specific person? A specific place? A specific action? A specific tribe?

Moses? Aaron?
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tread softly = tiptoe? no - you need a two-word phrase

Is the verse a prophesy? A command? A prayer? A blessing? A description? An action?
Does it have to do with a specific person? A specific place? A specific action? A specific tribe?

Moses? Aaron? the verse itself is a description of a state of affairs - or rather, a description of something that is not the state of affairs - followed by a prophecy. It concerns Jacob and Israel, not Moses or Aaron.
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Softly = silent. relevant? Silent Night?

I also know of nothing Bakhuizen has painted but seascapes, ships in storm, ships in battle... is it relevant for the puzzle what Bakhuizen painted? or etched? or his name Ludolf being almost like Rudolf the rein-deer (again)?
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Does the prophecy have to do about moving the people from Egypt to Canaan? does it concern Jacob's sons? one of them especially relevant?
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Softly = silent. relevant? no - the amount of noise being generated by the treading is not relevant Silent Night? no

I also know of nothing Bakhuizen has painted but seascapes, ships in storm, so he did, and this will come in useful ships in battle... is it relevant for the puzzle what Bakhuizen painted? precisely - what he painted more of than anything else were Dutch ships in stormy weather of various kinds or etched? or his name Ludolf being almost like Rudolf the rein-deer (again)? funny you should say that...
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Tread softly - walk lightly?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Does the prophecy have to do about moving the people from Egypt to Canaan? no, and in truth calling it a "prophecy" is somewhat to overstate the case; more of a "prediction" does it concern Jacob's sons? no one of them especially relevant? no
Woubit (Woubit)
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Tread softly - walk lightly? not "walk", but "lightly" is quite right
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Go Lightly? Holly Golightly? Is there a some Christmas holly behind this door?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Ok, so Bakhuisen painted "Dutch Merchant-Ships in a Storm", "Ships in a Stormy Sea Off a Coast", "Ships in Distress off a Rocky Coast" and more - is any of these relevant? or another painting in storm? or no specific painting is relevant? maybe a lateral leap to Red Sea is relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Nelson - Trafalgar or HMS Victory relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Are "Kismet" or "Kiss me Hardy" relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Go Lightly? Holly Golightly? Is there a some Christmas holly behind this door? yes indeed there is, for exactly the reason you surmise. That accounts for door number six, and at this rate I can see a few more solutions appearing by tomorrow.

Ok, so Bakhuisen painted "Dutch Merchant-Ships in a Storm", "Ships in a Stormy Sea Off a Coast", "Ships in Distress off a Rocky Coast" and more - is any of these relevant? no more so than any other or another painting in storm? no or no specific painting is relevant? that is indeed the case - what is relevant is that these are, so to speak, Dutch storms maybe a lateral leap to Red Sea is relevant? not in that direction, no

Nelson - Trafalgar yes or HMS Victory no relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Are "Kismet" or "Kiss me Hardy" relevant? no
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Trafalgar Square - square dancing?? Much loved by your goodself.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Trafalgar Square - Christmas tree from Norway each year?
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So, we shall take one or more steps to get from "Dutch Storm" to something related to Christmas?
When we continue further:
Is the country Holland relevant? by it's more correct name, Netherlands?
Or maybe the word Holland points to something else? a person?
Perhaps "Storm" first should point to something? a person? a book?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Storm:
Dutch - onweer
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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There has been floods in the Netherlands because of storm, there are floods called "St. Nicholas' Flood" in 1196 and "St. Lucia's flood" in 1287, as well as the "Christmas flood" in 1717. Relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Book of Numbers

'the verse itself is a description of a state of affairs - or rather, a description of something that is not the state of affairs - followed by a prophecy. It concerns Jacob and Israel'

There is no idol in Jacob, neither is there an image god to be seen in Israel. The Lord his God is with him, and the sound of the victory of the king in him. 22 God hath brought him out of Egypt, whose strength is like to the rhinoceros. 23 There is no soothsaying in Jacob, nor divination in Israel. In their times it shall be told to Jacob and to Israel what God hath wrought. 24 Behold the people shall rise up as a lioness, and shall lift itself up as a lion: it shall not lie down till it devour the prey, and drink the blood of the slain. 25 And Balac said to Balaam: Neither curse, nor bless him.

Is the relevant verse in this section?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Trafalgar Square - square dancing?? Much loved by your goodself. oh, quite so. But I am not sure what square dancing has to do with Christmas, though I very much hope that it is nothing at all.

Trafalgar Square - Christmas tree from Norway each year? this, on the other hand, has a great deal to do with Christmas, and is the solution to the fourth door of the puzzle - well done.

So, we shall take one or more steps to get from "Dutch Storm" to something related to Christmas? excellent idea
When we continue further:
Is the country Holland relevant? not so much the country... by it's more correct name, Netherlands? that does not really matter
Or maybe the word Holland points to something else? so to speak, yes a person? no
Perhaps "Storm" first should point to something? it should, and it does a person? a book? nothing like this, though

Storm:
Dutch - onweer very true, and worth exploring further...

There has been floods in the Netherlands because of storm, there are floods called "St. Nicholas' Flood" in 1196 and "St. Lucia's flood" in 1287, as well as the "Christmas flood" in 1717. Relevant? no - you are not looking for floods, but for some other characteristic of storms in general and Dutch storms in particular...

21 There is no idol in Jacob, neither is there an image god to be seen in Israel. The Lord his God is with him, and the sound of the victory of the king in him.
22 God hath brought him out of Egypt, whose strength is like to the rhinoceros.
23 There is no soothsaying in Jacob, nor divination in Israel. In their times it shall be told to Jacob and to Israel what God hath wrought.
24 Behold the people shall rise up as a lioness, and shall lift itself up as a lion: it shall not lie down till it devour the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.
25 And Balac said to Balaam: Neither curse, nor bless him.

Is the relevant verse in this section? well, yes and no. The section you quote is from the correct chapter of the Book of Numbers and includes the correct verse, but it does not employ exactly the translation that was used when this particular four-word phrase acquired the fame it enjoys today
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Thunder and Lightning relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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What hath God wrought?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Thunder and Lightning relevant? very much so, indeed

What hath God wrought? that's the bunny. Now then...
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God wrought his son? the Earth?
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"Strength of a unicorn" relevant? or the similar "Strength of a buffalo"?
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The first message sent in Morse code?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Re-runs of Inspector Morse on Christmas Day TV.... Second only to The Great Escape
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Weren't "Thunder and Lightning" two famous reindeers, almost as famous as Ludolf?
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That's Donder und Blitzen.
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Well - "Donder und Blitzen", while giving more associations to war than to Christmas for me, still are "Thunder and Lightning"... Thought English should be easier than German or their original names (in Dutch) "Dunder" and "Blixem".

Here Rudolf is the only popular reindeer.


We need door number 8 to be opened.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Wow "Aedh wishes for the cloths of heaven" and Audrey Hepburn in the same puzzle. You woubits obviously appreciate the beautiful things in life.
Woubit (Woubit)
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God wrought his son? the Earth? no doubt, but this part of the puzzle contains no direct reference to the actual works of the Almighty

"Strength of a unicorn" relevant? or the similar "Strength of a buffalo"? neither of those

The first message sent in Morse code? well, "What hath God wrought" was not actually the first message sent over Samuel Morse's invention, but this is very much on the right lines

Re-runs of Inspector Morse on Christmas Day TV.... Second only to The Great Escape if you say so

Weren't "Thunder and Lightning" two famous reindeers, almost as famous as Ludolf? indeed they were

That's Donder und Blitzen. it is now, but it was not always so...

Well - "Donder und Blitzen", while giving more associations to war than to Christmas for me, still are "Thunder and Lightning"... Thought English should be easier than German or their original names (in Dutch) "Dunder" and "Blixem".

exactly and precisely so. In the original poem "A Visit from Saint Nicholas" by Clement Clarke Moore (or at least, attributed to him) the names of two of Santa's reindeer were Dunder and Blixem, the Dutch words for thunder and lightning respectively. By a process too obscure and tedious to describe, these became Donder and Blitzen in most versions of the poem printed nowadays (although Blitzen is the German word for lightning, the German word for thunder is actually Donner).

At any rate, the riddle of the second door is now solved - well done everyone.


We need door number 8 to be opened.

Behind the eighth door is a picture of a rural landscape. A cottage nestles among wooded hills somewhere in the Lake District of northern England. It is, as usual for that part of the world, pouring with rain.
Lynne (Lynne)
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OK, What hath God wrought, was the first public telegram in America, sent by Samuel Morse?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Is it a painting by Edward Lear? He thought of the Lake District as a place where 'the dear little babies are born with fins – webbed feet – & umbrellas under their arms' Grasmere relevant? Wordsworth's Dove Cottage?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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As there a lot of text has accumulated in the meanwhile I provide a summary of the doors opened so far. I hope woubit does not mind.

First door: a pair of ballet shoes
ballet -> Anna Pavlova -> Pavlova cake

Second door: a bakery in the shadow of a windmill
windmill -> Dutch bakery -> bakhuis -> the painter Bakhuizen -> thunderstorms -> Thunder and Lightning, reindeers of obscure fame

Third door: a cockerel in full voice
Some other European language is relevant; not French, Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch, Russian, Czech, Slovak

Fourth door: a man dressed in a white coat standing on one leg
cricket umpire -> David Shepherd -> score of 111 -> Lord Adm. H. Nelson -> Trafalgar Square -> Good Norwegian wood

Fifth door: Robert Fischer and Boris Spassky
Chess -> pawnbroker -> St. Nicholas, their patron

Sixth door: a portrait of William Butler Yeats
poem "He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" -> "tread softly" -> "go lightly"

Seventh door: a Bible open at a passage from the Old Testament
Relevant phrase "What hath God wrought?" from the Book of Numbers

Eigth door: got stuck somehow
Lynne (Lynne)
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That's useful, Sundowner, but holly is behind the sixth door as Peter suggested Holly Golightly.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Pedants must note in this place that Dutch for "lightning" is "blitsem", while the German word is "Blitz". Dutch for "thunder" is "donder".

For the cockerel I might still offer the Hungarian term: kakas .. but I don't see any reference to Christmas.
Is the relevant language a Slavonic one? Romanic? Germanic? Greek? Yiddish? Basque? Turkish? Finnish? an alive language?

As for the 7th door: wrought as in wrought iron? some item made of wrought iron relevant?
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Sundowner: Pedants note that the proper spelling is bliksem, not blitsem...

We can try some more languages: Latin, Irish, Welsh, Kalaallisut, Inuktitut, Katalan, Moldavian, Swedish, Lithuanian, Estonian, Latvian, Manx, Frisian, Faroese, Corsican, Icelandic?
Woubit (Woubit)
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OK, What hath God wrought, was the first public telegram in America, sent by Samuel Morse? indeed it was. One of those words is rather more relevant than any of the others (the words in your question, not the words in the Bible)

Is it a painting by Edward Lear? He thought of the Lake District as a place where 'the dear little babies are born with fins – webbed feet – & umbrellas under their arms' Grasmere relevant? Wordsworth's Dove Cottage? the painting could be by anyone at all of any house at all

As there a lot of text has accumulated in the meanwhile I provide a summary of the doors opened so far. I hope woubit does not mind. mind? I am most grateful to you indeed for your efforts.

For the cockerel I might still offer the Hungarian term: kakas .. but I don't see any reference to Christmas.
Is the relevant language a Slavonic one? Romanic? Germanic? Greek? Yiddish? Basque? Turkish? Finnish? an alive language? this one, and none of the others, but help is at hand...

As for the 7th door: wrought as in wrought iron? no some item made of wrought iron relevant? if I were to say "yes", which would be the literal truth, it would be horribly misleading

We can try some more languages: Latin, Irish, Welsh, this one - well done Kalaallisut, Inuktitut, Katalan, Moldavian, Swedish, Lithuanian, Estonian, Latvian, Manx, Frisian, Faroese, Corsican, Icelandic?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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OK, the Welsh word for cockerel should then be interesting? bad luck then it's not easy to find...
Similar words would be cywion - relevant? Rebeca Cywion? ffowlyn?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Found a site that might have given the translation...

Is "cyw ceiliog" relevant, seems to be Welsh for cockerel? just ceiliog?
The there is of course the obvious path cockerel -> ceiliog -> Corn Flakes -> snow flakes -> Christmas...
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Day 8: is it relevant that it is the Lake District? or just Northern England? is William Wordsworth relevant?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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What are William Wordsworth's words worth...?

He has written "Intimations of Immortality" - relevant? "Composed Upon Westminster Bridge"? "Lyrical Ballads"?
Woubit (Woubit)
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OK, the Welsh word for cockerel should then be interesting? bad luck then it's not easy to find... sorry about that, but some parts of woubit Christmas puzzles have to be difficult, or they would all be over long before Christmas

Similar words would be cywion - relevant? Rebeca Cywion? ffowlyn? none of these

Is "cyw ceiliog" relevant, seems to be Welsh for cockerel? just ceiliog? no
The there is of course the obvious path cockerel -> ceiliog -> Corn Flakes -> snow flakes -> Christmas... obvious indeed - can't think how I missed it, but I seem to have done so

Day 8: is it relevant that it is the Lake District? no or just Northern England? no is William Wordsworth relevant? no

He has written "Intimations of Immortality" - relevant? "Composed Upon Westminster Bridge"? "Lyrical Ballads"? Wordsworth has written much that is excellent, much that is execrable, and nothing that is relevant to this puzzle
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But is the Welsh word for cockerel interesting (just that I've not found it)? or is that Welsh word of no significance at all?
Perhaps the Welsh group "Rooster Teeth" is relevant?
Or the song "Tom Tobin's Dickey Bird" by "Pad John Welsh", about another kind of rooster/cockerel...?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Dylan Thomas is rather a Welsh cockerel; A Child's Christmas in Wales relevant? or am I just being lazy?
snowballing cats relevant? snowballs?
postmen delivering presents?
"...tingled down the tea-tray slithered run of the chilly, glinting hill..." -- that stuff's like crack, to me.
caroling at dark houses?
Woubit (Woubit)
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But is the Welsh word for cockerel interesting not as such - you may come at the answer from another direction just as easily (just that I've not found it)? or is that Welsh word of no significance at all? it is of some significance, yes, but it is possible to solve the puzzle without looking up the Welsh word for "cockerel"
Perhaps the Welsh group "Rooster Teeth" is relevant? perhaps it is, but not to this puzzle
Or the song "Tom Tobin's Dickey Bird" by "Pad John Welsh", about another kind of rooster/cockerel...? fascinating stuff, but alas...

Dylan Thomas is rather a Welsh cockerel; Dylan Thomas has not been anything very much these past fifty years and more, which is perhaps as well for you, since if he heard that description... A Child's Christmas in Wales relevant? no or am I just being lazy? no - fairly industrious, I would say, given that...
snowballing cats relevant? no snowballs? no
postmen delivering presents? no
"...tingled down the tea-tray slithered run of the chilly, glinting hill..." -- that stuff's like crack, to me.
caroling at dark houses? ...but this is very, very much in the right forest
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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So is "A Child's Christmas In Wales" by Dylan Thomas relevant? or is not Dylan Thomas relevant at all?
Woubit (Woubit)
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So is "A Child's Christmas In Wales" by Dylan Thomas relevant? or is not Dylan Thomas relevant at all? Dylan Thomas is of no particular relevance, but "caroling at dark houses" is more or less the entirety of the solution (well, less rather than more, perhaps)
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that the painting is in the Lake District and that it's raining? Could it be elsewhere? Could it be another building other than a cottage? Could the weather be sunny?

was the first public telegram in America, sent by Samuel Morse. I'll hazard a guess that Samuel or Morse or America or public or telegram or perhaps first is the most relevant word.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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The word mistle means to rain lightly or drizzle. Could this be the the sort of rain in question in the Lake District? I am struggling to get a toe in though (if you'll pardon the pun).
Woubit (Woubit)
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Is it relevant that the painting is in the Lake District no and that it's raining? yes Could it be elsewhere? yes, but a certain geographical constaint exists - it could not be anywhere on Earth Could it be another building other than a cottage? yes, or no building at all Could the weather be sunny? no - good question

I'll hazard a guess that Samuel or Morse or America or public or telegram this one is very close, but is not the exact word you require or perhaps first is the most relevant word.

The word mistle means to rain lightly or drizzle. Could this be the the sort of rain in question in the Lake District? not in my experience - "deluge" is usually closer to the mark I am struggling to get a toe in though (if you'll pardon the pun). by all means - after all, what is the point of having the privilege of free speech if one does not abuse it?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Northern England - isn't it there where it's reining deers...?

Geographical constraint - does it have to be a "cool rain"? it can't be in a very warm country?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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The Lake District painting - are nearby mountains needed? water? lakes? green growth?

Cockerel: any relevance to "The Nightmare Before Christmas"? any castle relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Geographical constraint - does it have to be a "cool rain"? no - any kind of rain will do it can't be in a very warm country? it could

The Lake District painting - are nearby mountains needed? yes, for ssv of "mountains" water? yes lakes? no green growth? no

Cockerel: any relevance to "The Nightmare Before Christmas"? no any castle relevant? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Telegraph rather than telegram?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Telegraph rather than telegram? quite so, indeed. Now then...
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Messages? Glad tidings? News?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Messages? not really Glad tidings? very occasionally News? most of the time
Lynne (Lynne)
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Daily Telegraph newspaper?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Painting: Would "hill" be a better word than "mountain? Is the word hill relevant? or "heights"?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Daily Telegraph newspaper? yes, indeed

Painting: Would "hill" be a better word than "mountain? it would indeed - in fact, "mountain" would be useless Is the word hill relevant? yope or "heights"? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Is the Daily Telegraph itself relevant? A particular Christmas tradtion that they have? Like Christmas puzzles? Or would any newspaper do?

Yope to the word hill. Is hill a part of the word we need to look for? If so is it at the beginning, middle or end of the word?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 08, 2009 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've just learned something very Christmasy about the Telegraph. It's founder was a Colonel Sleigh.

I feel a tiny bit guilty as Lynne did most of the work on this one. I'll try and set one up for her tomorrow.

For hill would Tor be a better word or something similar?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Peter - I LOVE the teamwork on something like this. I follow through other people's ideas all the time, and so do others. Worry not.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Here the usual summary.

Second door: a bakery in the shadow of a windmill
windmill -> Dutch bakery -> bakhuis -> the painter Bakhuizen -> thunderstorms -> Donner and Blitzen, infamous reindeer

Third door: a cockerel in full voice
It's a Welsh cockerel, although, the Welsh word for cockerel is not relevant as such. From some point of view, the solution is "caroling at dark houses".

Sixth door: a portrait of William Butler Yeats
poem "He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" -> "tread softly" -> "go lightly" -> Holly Golightly -> a wreath of holly

Seventh door: a Bible open at a passage from the Old Testament
"What hath God wrought?" from the Book of Numbers -> first telegram -> Daily Telegraph

Eighth door: A picture of a rural landscape somewhere between Cockermouth and Buttermere. Cottages among wooded hills. Rain pouring.
Identified as relevant so far: hills, rain

Ninth door: not yet revealed to the public
Lynne (Lynne)
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Lake District - is the word fells relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Ingle - a fire; which is likely to be burning if it's raining in the fells.

Ingle Fells - Jingle Bells
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Wow Lynne I hope that's right as it's pure genius.

I wonder do woubits ever think "To hell with it, that's much better than mine" and follow it by typing "Exactly and precisely so...........
Lynne (Lynne)
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Peter - LOL. Regarding teamwork, I wouldn't have thought of fells without your prompt of tor.

Which puts me in mind of even more weightless (or is it worthless?) poetry.

In days of yore
The god of war
Went for a ride on his filly
'I'm Thor!' he cried
The horse replied
'You've forgotten your thaddle, thilly'
Woubit (Woubit)
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Is the Daily Telegraph itself relevant? very much so A particular Christmas tradtion that they have? nothing like this Like Christmas puzzles? Or would any newspaper do? it would not

Yope to the word hill. Is hill a part of the word we need to look for? yes If so is it at the beginning, this one middle or end of the word?

I've just learned something very Christmasy about the Telegraph. Its founder was a Colonel Sleigh. indeed it was - well done

For hill would Tor be a better word or something similar? no - see above

Here the usual summary. thank you very much, Jens

Lake District - is the word fells relevant? no, and neither is the Lake District

Ingle - a fire; which is likely to be burning if it's raining in the fells.

Ingle Fells - Jingle Bells brilliant. Wrong, but brilliant.

I wonder do woubits ever think "To hell with it, that's much better than mine" and follow it by typing "Exactly and precisely so........... they don't, but one of these years I will simply set a Christmas puzzle to which I have not thought of any answers. It would work much better than the actual ones.

Ninth door: not yet revealed to the public. Behind the ninth door is a picture of two small boys. They appear to be twins. They also appear to be in a rather wretched condition.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Did the two little boys have two little toys?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is it indeed a sleigh behind the seventh door?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Two boys: book relevant? poem? picture? song?
Mrs. Micawber in David Copperfield and her twins relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 2:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hillside, Hillbilly, hillwalking, hilltop, hillcrest, hilly, Hillary, Sir Edmund Hillary. Any of these relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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To those I can add Hillock? Hillman (makers of the Hillman Hunter)?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Did the two little boys have two little toys? not that is recorded, no

So is it indeed a sleigh behind the seventh door? it is indeed, and this is all that needs to be discovered

Two boys: book relevant? poem? picture? song? none of the above
Mrs. Micawber in David Copperfield and her twins relevant? no

Hillside, Hillbilly, hillwalking, hilltop, hillcrest, hilly, Hillary, Sir Edmund Hillary.
Any of these relevant?

To those I can add Hillock? Hillman (makers of the Hillman Hunter)? a most impressive list. However, there is a rather simpler word that begins with the letters "hill", chiefly because it contains only one more letter...
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Well I guess it has to be Hills then?
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Are the two boys well known? Fictional? Are they in fact twins? Romulus & Remus perhaps? The Krays? It's not Jedward i hope ;O)?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Well I guess it has to be Hills then? you guess correctly - "hills" and not "hill" is the word you will need

Are the two boys well known? for ssv of "well", yes Fictional? probably Are they in fact twins? for the sake of the puzzle, yes Romulus & Remus perhaps? no The Krays? no It's not Jedward i hope ;O)? what is Jedward?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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what is Jedward? Not an X-Factor fan I take it.

Do these boys appear in a portrait? mentioned in a book? a film? Are they the stuff of myth or legend?

Re their wretched state do they look emaciated? diseased? upset? Have the the appearance of street urchins? Are they wearing or holding anything relevant? Is there a relevant background in the picture? Are they less or more than 5 years old? relevant?
Noel (Noel)
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The water needed in the painting with the hills: just the deluge of rain? Or an actual water body? A river? A pond? A ditch?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Do these boys appear in a portrait? more than one, I should think mentioned in a book? again, more than one a film? Are they the stuff of myth or legend? yes

Re their wretched state do they look emaciated? a little diseased? no upset? yes Have the the appearance of street urchins? no, not really Are they wearing or holding anything relevant? no Is there a relevant background in the picture? well, there are other people in the picture, one of whom is of some importance Are they less or more than 5 years old? about twelve or so relevant? vaguely

The water needed in the painting with the hills: just the deluge of rain? yes Or an actual water body? A river? A pond? A ditch? none of these - what is required is that water pervades every aspect of the hills
Noel (Noel)
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In other words, is what's relevant that the hills are "wet"? "soaked"? "drenched"? "steeped"? "soggy"?
Woubit (Woubit)
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In other words, is what's relevant that the hills are "wet"? this one "soaked"? "drenched"? "steeped"? "soggy"? and none of the others - what you are dealing with here is wet hills
Noel (Noel)
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wet hills = anagram for "the swill" --> stuff used to feed pigs. Christmas ham relevant? Any other pork product? Pigs? Leftovers after a big meal?

The band "my name" has an album called "Wet Hills and Big Bheels". Is "My name" relevant? Woubit? Might this door be the woubit Christmas puzzle itself? Or is your real name relevant to this puzzle? =)
Woubit (Woubit)
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wet hills = anagram for "the swill" no, but... --> stuff used to feed pigs. Christmas ham relevant? Any other pork product? Pigs? Leftovers after a big meal? no, but good thinking nonetheless

The band "my name" has an album called "Wet Hills and Big Bheels". Is "My name" relevant? no Woubit? Might this door be the woubit Christmas puzzle itself? Or is your real name relevant to this puzzle? =) this puzzle doesn't have anything to do with any of my names
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wet hills is also an anagram for "well s***", but I don't think that has anything to do with Christmas... =)

Other anagrams (removing the ones that are complete nonsense, but leaving a bit that seem to be somewhat nonsense, just in case =) )

He Twills -- a bird? a musician?
Hells Wit

Welsh Lit -- is there a particular well known poem or novel that is relevant?

The Wills
Whet Sill
Sell With
Swell Hit

Tell Wish -- A christmas wish list? sitting on Santa's lap?

Well This
Slew Hilt
West Hill
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other anagrams (removing the ones that are complete nonsense, but leaving a bit that seem to be somewhat nonsense, just in case =) )

He Twills -- a bird? a musician?
Hells Wit

Welsh Lit -- is there a particular well known poem or novel that is relevant?

The Wills this one
Whet Sill
Sell With
Swell Hit

Tell Wish -- A christmas wish list? sitting on Santa's lap?

Well This
Slew Hilt
West Hill
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two boys the Princes in the Tower?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, "The Wills" was one of the "almost nonsense" ones I left on just in case. Good thing =)

I see that there is a singing quartet family known as "The Wills"...is that what you have in mind? They are Gospel singers. They had "the first full color Gospel TV show syndicated in the world." One of them has the delightful name of Eva Rene. Gospel means "good news" which refers to Jesus. Any of these relevant at all?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a Bible behind the door? The Wills are Testaments and could refer to the Old and New Testaments.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two boys the Princes in the Tower? no

I see that there is a singing quartet family known as "The Wills"...is that what you have in mind? never heard of them, but they sound an entertaining bunch They are Gospel singers. They had "the first full color Gospel TV show syndicated in the world." One of them has the delightful name of Eva Rene. Gospel means "good news" which refers to Jesus. Any of these relevant at all? I fear not
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a Bible behind the door? The Wills are Testaments and could refer to the Old and New Testaments. there is not, but a fine piece of thinking
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does 'the wills' refer to one entity or more?
Does it refer to something/s animal, vegetable or mineral?
Does it refer to something that we may reasonably have in our home?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does 'the wills' refer to one entity or more? this one
Does it refer to something/s animal, this one is closest, although... vegetable or mineral?
Does it refer to something that we may reasonably have in our home? that is a particularly deep question to which for the moment I will answer "yes"
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So more than one animal - human animals?
People in general? People in particular? In our home because we are people too?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So more than one animal - human animals? indeed
People in general? possibly, but... People in particular? ...a specific (large) group of people is directly involved In our home because we are people too? indeed, but you may be following a false trail here
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 4:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the twins represent good and evil?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the twins represent good and evil? no, and hello again Kaygee - good to see you back

Puzzles on the 2009 LTPF Advent Calendar consist of a picture that, by a process of reasoning too obscure and painful to be described here, in fact connotes a different picture that is directly related to Christmas. For example:
  • behind the seventh door was a picture of a Bible;
  • this proved to be open at a passage from the Book of Numbers containing the words "What hath God wrought";
  • this was a message sent by Samuel Morse during one of the earliest demonstrations of his invention, the telegraph;
  • and the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper was founded by Colonel Sleigh.

Puzzles remaining to be solved this morning are:

Third door: a cockerel in full voice. It's a Welsh cockerel, although the Welsh word for cockerel is not relevant as such. From some point of view, the solution is "caroling at dark houses". (thanks to Sundowner for this admirable summary).

Eighth door: a landscape with hills in the rain. These "wet hills" are no more than an anagram of the phrase "the wills", which relate to a large but specific group of human beings.

Ninth door: a pair of young boys, twins or at any rate alike in appearance, in a wretched state. They are accompanied by a man of whom nothing is known as yet.

Behind the tenth door is a picture of an old metal box.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a keyhole visible on the box? a handle? anything else visible on the box?
Is it possible to decide if the box is large or small, if so - size?
Pandora's box relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there more to be found out then about the cockerel? Or is there a picture of carol singers?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are The Wills simply a group of people that are all called william? Kings perhaps? Are makers of wills relevant? testators? Or perhaps are they the wills as opposed to the wonts?

Do we need to establish if the box contains anything and what that might be? Is it a treasure chest? Is it centuries old? Is the type of metal relevant? Gold? Silver?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a keyhole visible on the box? a handle? anything else visible on the box? the box appears to be opened simply by lifting the lid, which is hinged - there are no locks or handles
Is it possible to decide if the box is large or small, if so - size? about 5cm by 4cm
Pandora's box relevant? no, but an interesting notion

Is there more to be found out then about the cockerel? Or is there a picture of carol singers? well, perhaps you have done enough. A Christmas tradition in Wales is the Plygain, the practice of singing carols (either at home or in church) from around 3 am on Christmas morning until breakfast time. The word "plygain" originally meant "cockcrow", but is now more generally used to refer to the dawn or to the service of Matins. Behind the third door, then, is "really" a picture of carol singers wishing a Merry Christmas to you and your king (or not, as the case may be).
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are The Wills simply a group of people that are all called william? no, but a most ingenious piece of thinking Kings perhaps? no Are makers of wills relevant? testators? neither of these Or perhaps are they the wills as opposed to the wonts? well, this is closer, but you are being rather too obscure about this. Not your fault, I know...

Do we need to establish if the box contains anything and what that might be? that would perhaps assist Is it a treasure chest? no Is it centuries old? a hundred years or so Is the type of metal relevant? not particularly, since it could be any of... Gold? this... Silver? ..or this, or copper with gold or silver plate, or...
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps a box for a medal? for a ring? for a watch? a bracelet? for something else valuable?

"The Wills" - simply (some) people with Wills as last name? any company relevant? any specific place relevant, like "Wills Point"? we should write the word "Wills" - not "Will's"? or "Wills'"? is the s in "Wills" a plural "s"?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps a box for a medal? for a ring? for a watch? a bracelet? for something else valuable? certainly that sort of size, but the contents of this box (and others like it) were not in any way as valuable as rings or watches or bracelets

"The Wills" - simply (some) people with Wills as last name? any company relevant? any specific place relevant, like "Wills Point"? we should write the word "Wills" - not "Will's"? or "Wills'"? is the s in "Wills" a plural "s"? nothing like this - no names are involved, nor is the letter "w" capitalized in the phrase "the wills", which is to be read literally and placed in context. I am sure that Lynne will be able to do this...
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"the wills" : Shakespeare "The Tempest" relevant?
relevant meaning - "against the wills of people"?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would a synonym for will work? If i wrote the urges, the desires, the intentions would it still make sense?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"the wills" : Shakespeare "The Tempest" relevant? no, but not a bad shot
relevant meaning - "against the wills of people"? exactly so - "the wills of ... people" is precisely what is required

Would a synonym for will work? no, but... If i wrote the urges, the desires, the intentions would it still make sense? ...that is indeed the meaning of "wills" here intended
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the wills the wishlists of children for Santa?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The wills - perhaps the stockings to be filled with the wishes of the children?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Are the wills the wishlists of children for Santa? they are not - again, the phrase "the wills of ... people" is to be read literally, and the blank filled in, recalling perhaps what has been done to "wet hills" to produce "the wills"...

The wills - perhaps the stockings to be filled with the wishes of the children? not this - see above
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Unite) the wills of all people?
"the wills of other people"?
"the wills of younger people"?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Unite) the wills of all people? no
"the wills of other people"? no
"the wills of younger people"? and no, but I am as sure as I can be that help will shortly be at hand, once Lynne collects her thoughts...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I went to the collection point for thoughts but it was half day closing.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The wills of dead/dying people?

Where there's a will there's a relative.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The wills of mixed people? though, I do not see any link to Christmas

9th door: Is the man the father of the boys? another relative? a teacher? is he standing in front of the boys? behind them?
Are the boys famous? (as individuals? as members of a larger group?)
Is the man famous?
Relevant that the boys are two?
In the pictures, books, films where the boys appear: are they always two? always twins?

10th door: Is the box empty? is it sort of a case?
for: cigarettes? matches? business cards? money?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it simply 'The wills of the people'?

The will of the people seems very American, but in either the singular or plural, I can't think of a connection to Christmas.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The wills of dead/dying people? no - the phrase in question is a quotation, not merely some adjective inserted into the phrase "the wills of the people"

The wills of mixed people? no

9th door: Is the man the father of the boys? no another relative? no a teacher? no is he standing in front of the boys? behind them? beside them, but this does not matter very much
Are the boys famous? not as such, but the tableau of which they are part has achieved some fame (as individuals? as members of a larger group?)
Is the man famous? yes
Relevant that the boys are two? yes
In the pictures, books, films where the boys appear: are they always two? usually always twins? almost never - they have become twins only for the purposes of the puzzle

10th door: Is the box empty? it is closed, so one cannot tell, but... is it sort of a case? ...it is certainly one of these; moreover...
for: cigarettes? matches? ...it is used to hold these - well done business cards? money?

s it simply 'The wills of the people'? no - it is "the wills of _ _ people" where each _ is a word, neither of which is "the"
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The wills of...people:
millions of?
those very?
primarily wealthy?
thy faithful? --> aha! from an Anglican prayer recited on "Stir up Sunday" which is the traditional day for making Christmas puddings.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"the wills of thy faithful people"?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank goodness for that! I have heard it in use once or twice, and indeed I heard it this year, but I tend to be more familiar with modern language.
Woubit (Woubit)
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The wills of...people:
millions of?
those very?
primarily wealthy?
thy faithful? --> aha! from an Anglican prayer recited on "Stir up Sunday" which is the traditional day for making Christmas puddings. well done indeed, O aptly-named one

The first Sunday before Advent is, as Noel says, a day on which Christmas puddings are traditionally made. In the Book of Common Prayer, the collect for that Sunday reads:

Stir up, we beseech thee, O Lord, the wills of thy faithful people; that they, plenteously bringing forth the fruit of good works, may of thee be plenteously rewarded; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

The "wet hills" of the picture were anagrammed, or stirred up, to give the phrase "the wills" as an indication that behind the eighth door is "really" a picture of a bowl whose contents are themselves being vigorously mixed to produce figgy pudding.


"the wills of thy faithful people"? rock on, Tommy
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there matches in the match box? Or is it empty?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the box that used to hold matches - is the clue in the word matchbox?
Or the picture on the front? Swan Vesta. Swans a Swimming.
Cooks matches - the cook is rather useful for preparing Christmas dinner.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I seem to have been a tad late... ;-)

The boys: According to your answers, no book, poem, picture or song is relevant. Yet they appear in more than one portrait and the same goes for books. Does that mean that no particular picture or book is relevant because the books/pictures are not about them? they are merely there for illustration? the boys are not two specific boys, more "two boys"? are they two human boys? standing beside each other? holding anything relevant in their hands?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I read 'used to hold matches' and not 'it is used to hold matches' - my eyes are dim, I cannot see
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Light a match...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Oh, Woubit - collects her thoughts. Duh, just got it!
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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10th door: matchbox cars relevant? or maybe, match case .. are there some words where upper and lower case letters must match?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Are there matches in the match box? Or is it empty? it is closed, so I do not know, but it does not matter

So the box that used to hold matches - is the clue in the word matchbox? no
Or the picture on the front? no Swan no Vesta. yes, indeed - Vesta is the name given to this kind of antique match-holder Swans a Swimming. no - that was some other puzzle
Cooks matches - the cook is rather useful for preparing Christmas dinner. indeed, but useless in this puzzle, I fear. Not to worry, for you have found what you need to progress.

he boys: According to your answers, no book, poem, picture or song is relevant. well, no one more so than any other Yet they appear in more than one portrait and the same goes for books. Does that mean that no particular picture or book is relevant because the books/pictures are not about them? there is no book that is exclusively "about them" they are merely there for illustration? no the boys are not two specific boys, more "two boys"? I am not sure I understand this. They do not have names; they are not characters in some piece of fiction; they are two boys in a particular situation. are they two human boys? yes standing beside each other? yes holding anything relevant in their hands? no, but...

10th door: matchbox cars relevant? or maybe, match case .. are there some words where upper and lower case letters must match? very clever - too clever for this puzzle, though, where the only relevant aspect of the matchbox is its name, Vesta
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesta - goddess of the hearth. Her presence was symbolised by a fire burning.

Is there a fireplace behind the door? Santa's route into the house.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Vesta - goddess of the hearth. Her presence was symbolised by a fire burning. indeed, but...

Is there a fireplace behind the door? no Santa's route into the house. nice idea, though
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

9th door: Relevant that the twins are boys? could it also be two girls? or a girl and a boy?
relevant how the boys are dressed? are they naked, by any chance? like a cupidon?

10th door: Virgines vestalis relevant? or, maybe, some other holy virgin? or the company Virgin?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

9th door: Relevant that the twins are boys? not really, but easier to assume so could it also be two girls? yes or a girl and a boy? yes, but this would be a little more complex
relevant how the boys are dressed? yes are they naked, by any chance? no like a cupidon?

10th door: Virgines vestalis relevant? or, maybe, some other holy virgin? or the company Virgin? nothing to do with virgins, vestal or otherwise I fear...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stave is an anagram of vesta.

Could this refer to a sheet of Christmas music
Norwegian stave church
A stick
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Is the goddess Vesta irrelevant to the puzzle?
Is the asteroid Vesta irrelevant as well?
Nothing to do with talismans? since no Vestals then not with Forum Romanum either?
Steva is also an anagram of Vesta, some people have the name Steva but I don't know if there's anyone relevant for this puzzle?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Stave is an anagram of vesta. true

Could this refer to a sheet of Christmas music
Norwegian stave music
A stick it could refer to any of the above, I guess. It just doesn't.

Is the goddess Vesta irrelevant to the puzzle? yes
Is the asteroid Vesta irrelevant as well? yes
Nothing to do with talismans? nothing at all since no Vestals then not with Forum Romanum either? indeed not
Steva is also an anagram of Vesta, some people have the name Steva but I don't know if there's anyone relevant for this puzzle? there is not. There are no anagrams involved in this part of the puzzle.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 7:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

SUMMARY

First door: a pair of ballet shoes
ballet -> Anna Pavlova -> Pavlova > traditional dessert for Christmas dinner

Second door: a bakery in the shadow of a windmill
windmill -> Dutch bakery -> bakhuis -> the painter Bakhuizen -> thunderstorms -> Thunder and Lightning, reindeers

Third door: a cockerel in full voice
It's a Welsh cockerel, although, the Welsh word for cockerel is not relevant as such. From some point of view, the solution is "caroling at dark houses". > Carol singers

Fourth door: a man dressed in a white coat standing on one leg
cricket umpire -> David Shepherd -> score of 111 -> Lord Adm. H. Nelson -> Trafalgar Square -> Good Norwegian wood, Christmas tree

Fifth door: Robert Fischer and Boris Spassky
Chess -> pawnbroker -> St. Nicholas, their patron > aka Santa Claus

Sixth door: a portrait of William Butler Yeats
poem "He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" -> "tread softly" -> "go lightly" -> Holly Golightly -> a wreath of holly

Seventh door: a picture of a Bible;
this proved to be open at a passage from the Book of Numbers containing the words "What hath God wrought" > this was a message sent by Samuel Morse during one of the earliest demonstrations of his invention, the telegraph > the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper was founded by Colonel Sleigh.> sleigh

Eighth door: a landscape with hills in the rain. These "wet hills" are no more than an anagram of the phrase "the wills" >"the wills of thy faithful people" > from an Anglican prayer recited on "Stir up Sunday" which is the traditional day for making Christmas puddings > Christmas (or figgy) pudding

Ninth door: a pair of young boys, twins or at any rate alike in appearance, in a wretched state. They are accompanied by a man of whom nothing is known as yet.

Tenth door: a picture of an old metal box > match box > Vesta (from Swan Vesta matches) is the relevant word
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

9th door: are the boys dressed alike? are they always depicted together with this man? are they doing something specific that would help to identify them? carry something? play some game? are they comics characters?
Are they upset by the man's presence?
Is the man famous? a real person? if so: did he live in the 17? 18? 19? 20? century? is he still alive?
Is he Santa Claus?

10th door: not sure how to proceed here .. would it make sense to investigate other meanings of Vesta? Vesta sewing machines? the town of Vesta? Vesta Williams?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesta
Nymphalidae (Brush-footed butterflies)
Subfamily Melitaeinae (Checkerspots)
Vesta Cresent - Phycoides vesta.
Relevant?
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tom Canty, Prince Edward & Miles Hendon?? Kings? Unlikely, I fear, since they wouldn't both be wretched at the same time but just dipping in a toe in the water....
Woubit (Woubit)
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9th door: are the boys dressed alike? not identically, but similarly are they always depicted together with this man? yes, though he is not always depicted with them are they doing something specific that would help to identify them? no carry something? no play some game? no are they comics characters? very far from it - they are somewhat tragic characters
Are they upset by the man's presence? not in the least
Is the man famous? in certain circles, yes a real person? yes if so: did he live in the 17? 18? 19? 20? century? none of those, but to save you further trouble, he lived in the 6th century AD is he still alive? and therefore no
Is he Santa Claus? no

10th door: not sure how to proceed here .. would it make sense to investigate other meanings of Vesta? no. Instead, it would make sense to consider that although the generic name for this kind of ornate match holder is Vesta, what you have here is a particular example of its kind Vesta sewing machines? the town of Vesta? Vesta Williams? nothing like this - as I say, it does not matter what "vesta" means in this context, but...

Vesta
Nymphalidae (Brush-footed butterflies)
Subfamily Melitaeinae (Checkerspots)
Vesta Cresent - Phycoides vesta.
Relevant? no - see above

Tom Canty, Prince Edward & Miles Hendon?? Kings? Unlikely, I fear, since they wouldn't both be wretched at the same time but just dipping in a toe in the water.... hello Sunshine - good to see you again. Not the right answer this time, as it happens, but be of good cheer...

Behind the eleventh door, by the way, is a picture of a pair of doors.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the doors wooden? seemingly heavy? painted in any colour? shut closed or ajar? any sign on them? anything else to identify them? knobs? handles? "old-style" or newer?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

two boys: is the man a farmer? does he have anything in his hand? is he a president? upper class?

Vesta box: a particular example, a specific specimen? owned by a well-known person? Prince Albert?
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Tom Canty, Prince Edward & Miles Hendon?? Kings? Unlikely, I fear, since they wouldn't both be wretched at the same time but just dipping in a toe in the water....
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, sorry - out of practice!
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the doors wooden? yes seemingly heavy? no painted in any colour? dark brown, as it happens shut closed or ajar? they are at the moment closed any sign on them? no, but above them is a sign that says "Entrance" anything else to identify them? no knobs? no handles? no "old-style" or newer? hard to tell, really - the kind of door that they are has been around for a century and a half at least

two boys: is the man a farmer? no does he have anything in his hand? he has a crozier in his hand is he a president? no upper class? yes

Vesta box: a particular example, a specific specimen? yes, but... owned by a well-known person? Prince Albert? ...not in this sense
Woubit (Woubit)
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Oops, sorry - out of practice! not to worry - it will all come flooding back
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The man with a crozier. Is he a Bishop? Pope?

Please may I invoke the LTPF list of European countries from which he might have come?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A "Go-to-bed matchbox"?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Is the man Gregory of Tours? Gregorian chants relevant? a particular chant?

Is the term "Vesta case" as such relevant? "go to bed" matchboxes?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two boys so-called "salt bearers"?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they louvre doors ?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Sorry posted before i'd finished.

Are they louvre doors? Louvre Art Museum? Madonna & Child?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Two boys: Are "Maurus and Placidus" relevant?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two boys dress as altar boys? as orphans? as clergy in training? in school uniforms? in pajamas?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The man with a crozier. Is he a Bishop? Pope? this one - Pope Gregory the Great, in fact

Please may I invoke the LTPF list of European countries from which he might have come? he was, as so many Popes were, Italian

A "Go-to-bed matchbox"? no, just a Vesta...

Is the man Gregory of Tours? no - see above Gregorian chants relevant? no a particular chant?

Is the term "Vesta case" as such relevant? no "go to bed" matchboxes? the term "vesta" as such is not actually relevant at all

Are the two boys so-called "salt bearers"? no, but good thinking

Are they louvre doors? no Louvre Art Museum? Madonna & Child? not this, but more good thinking

Two boys: Are "Maurus and Placidus" relevant? no

Are the two boys dress as altar boys? as orphans? as clergy in training? in school uniforms? in pajamas? none of these, I'm afraid
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the boys English slave boys?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Non Angli sed Angeli" . Is there an angel behind this door?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the doors: is it possible to see more about the doors, for instance if it's an entrance from a hall to a room? or from the outside in to a house?
Are there any stairs leading up to the doors? not possible to see?
Anything visible beside the doors?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Legend has it that Pope Gregory the Great decreed that Alleluia should be sung in the boys' land. From this can we get the Alleluia Chorus from Handel's Messiah?
Noel (Noel)
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Are the doors swinging doors? like you would see in a saloon?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the boys English slave boys? they are indeed, moreover...

"Non Angli sed Angeli" . ...this is very relevant, but... Is there an angel behind this door? ...this is not

the doors: is it possible to see more about the doors, for instance if it's an entrance from a hall to a room? or from the outside yes in to a house? no
Are there any stairs leading up to the doors? no not possible to see?
Anything visible beside the doors? no - the interior of the building is not visible

Legend has it that Pope Gregory the Great decreed that Alleluia should be sung in the boys' land. From this can we get the Alleluia Chorus from Handel's Messiah? no, but see above

Are the doors swinging doors? they are indeed, and... like you would see in a saloon? ...not a saloon in this case, but...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Pope Gregory the Great still relevant or just "Non Angli sed Angeli"?
Noel (Noel)
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The swinging doors go from the outside? Into a...
Hospital or doctor's office?
Post office?
Soup kitchen or similar?
Restaurant?
Bar?
Church?
Store?
Office?
Government building?
Salon?

Are they doors that fill the door frame (since you can't see inside)? Or are they the ones that are only as large as knee-height to head-height on a typical person?

Is there any other decoration on them or near them besides the entrance sign?
Noel (Noel)
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Not angles but angels...
Are "angles" relevant? A triangle? Perhaps an isosceles triangle (given that the two boys are nearly identical)?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Is Pope Gregory the Great still relevant or just "Non Angli sed Angeli"? the latter, but help has arrived in force - see below

The swinging doors go from the outside? Into a...
Hospital or doctor's office?
Post office?
Soup kitchen or similar?
Restaurant? this one, or a cafe - they are cafe doors, after all
Bar?
Church?
Store?
Office?
Government building?
Salon?

Are they doors that fill the door frame (since you can't see inside)? Or are they the ones that are only as large as knee-height to head-height on a typical person? this one

Not angles but angels...
Are "angles" relevant? A triangle? Perhaps an isosceles triangle (given that the two boys are nearly identical)? exactly and precisely so - very well done indeed
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You missed:
Is there any other decoration on them or near them (the doors) besides the entrance sign?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the triangle the clue to follow through? Their spiritual significance? Their use in astonomy? The use in navigation?
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A Christmas tree is sometimes represented by a triangle? Or an instrument played by an angel - but, no, angel has already been ruled out...
Is turkey on the cafe menu? If not, is it the fare that is relevant? Drink? Workers? Furniture? Some other aspect of eating places?
Is a vest relevant? (not to be personal...) A metal one? Armour? Underwear? > stocking?
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Instead of an isosceles triangle, could it be "Good King Wenceslas"? (And woubit will be pleased to learn that this American gal just discovered that there are lovely lyrics to a melody she has known for years.)
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

s there any other decoration on them or near them (the doors) besides the entrance sign? no, but you know all about the doors that you need - they are the entrance doors to a cafe

Is the triangle the clue to follow through? very much so, and you should concentrate on the kind of triangle brilliantly deduced by Noel Their spiritual significance? Their use in astonomy? The use in navigation? none of these - just their presence in geometry...

A Christmas tree is sometimes represented by a triangle? indeed, but the Christmas tree has already put in an appearance Or an instrument played by an angel - but, no, angel has already been ruled out... I fear so
Is turkey on the cafe menu? very possibly If not, is it the fare that is relevant? Drink? Workers? Furniture? Some other aspect of eating places? nothing of this kind - the doors are the entrance to a cafe, and that is all you need to know about the doors and the cafe
Is a vest relevant? (not to be personal...) no A metal one? Armour? Underwear? > stocking? nothing of this kind

Instead of an isosceles triangle, could it be "Good King Wenceslas"? that may be the first time this question has been asked in the entirety of human history. I cannot for the life of me think why Good King Wenceslas might appear in place of an isosceles triangle, but I wish I could - it would make a much better puzzle (And woubit will be pleased to learn that this American gal just discovered that there are lovely lyrics to a melody she has known for years.) woubit is delighted
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Behind the twelfth door of the LTPF 2009 Advent Calendar is a picture of a man in a cloth cap.
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There appear to be two bands called Isosceles - one has a track called Oblivion's Candle. Might a candle be behind this door?
Is the cloth capped man from the north? Is there anything else in the picture? Is the rest of his clothing relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There appear to be two bands called Isosceles - one has a track called Oblivion's Candle. does it, by George? Might a candle be behind this door? it might, but it isn't - you need to look at isosceles triangles, not other things that might go by the name of Isosceles
Is the cloth capped man from the north? he is, as it happens, from Bolton in Lancashire. To some of us that is the North, I suppose, though perhaps not to such as Tommy. Is there anything else in the picture? he is wearing a rather silly pair of spectacles and holding a microphone Is the rest of his clothing relevant? not especially
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Me? I'm from the south of Stockholm...

The triangle - The Holy Trinity relevant?
The man: Edison relevant?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Silly spectacles and microphone would point to Elton John, is he relevant? I don't think he's from Bolton (as was not Edison, should read more carefully...), but maybe another musical artist is relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the words 'cafe doors' the relevant bit? I've tried translating it but I personally haven't found anything worth mentioning.
How about anagrams? I rather like 'sofa coder'. One thing I enjoy at Christmas, or indeed any Bank Holiday, are the puzzles in newspapers, and for that matter this puzzle could be included. We are sofa coders.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The triangle - The Holy Trinity relevant? no - the isosceles triangle itself is not a symbol of anything
The man: Edison relevant? no

Silly spectacles and microphone would point to Elton John, is he relevant? oh, the spectacles aren't that silly I don't think he's from Bolton (as was not Edison, should read more carefully...), but maybe another musical artist is relevant? not a musician, no

Are the words 'cafe doors' the relevant bit? together with the word "entrance", yes I've tried translating it but I personally haven't found anything worth mentioning. well, translation does play a part in the solution to this particular door, but...
How about anagrams? ...anagrams are not involved I rather like 'sofa coder'. I rather like it too, and it may appear in some future woubit Christmas puzzle, but not this one
Lynne (Lynne)
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Entrance becomes entree - which has long been my favourite tree in my profile. Entree as part of a meal relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Entrance becomes entree - which has long been my favourite tree in my profile. Entree as part of a meal relevant? no - the word "entrance" does not need to be translated into some other language, but...
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Saturday, December 12, 2009 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fred Dibnah?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Fred Dibnah? that's the chap - well done indeed. Now then...
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Translation of door: porta? deur? pintu?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Translation of door: porta? deur? pintu? "door" does not need to be translated either
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Church steeple?
Noel (Noel)
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cafe --> coffee?
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Is there a cat behind the coffee shop doors? (Don't even ask how I got there!)
Woubit (Woubit)
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Church steeple? a steeple is indeed relevant, but it is by no means the entire story

cafe --> coffee? no - a cafe is simply a place where you can get something to eat...

Is there a cat behind the coffee shop doors? there is not (Don't even ask how I got there!) very well
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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café -> diner?
Woubit (Woubit)
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café -> diner? no. The idea is that "entrance" means something in English, and "cafe" means something in French...
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Steeplechase racing?
Village with Steeple as first part of name?
The Steeple Players production of A Christmas Carol?
The Christmas Feast at Steeple by Rider Haggard (seems very gory..)
Steeple projects at Oxford university?
Weather vane on top of steeple? Cockerel?

The triangle - relevant: two legs? base? base angle? vertex angle? Particular circumstance where isosceles triangle used? Relevant if it is equilateral? Is more than one triangle involved? needed? Lots? Pennants?

Is the emphasis on the first syllable in entrance?
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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My apologies - free-association in the kaygee brain can be a scary thing to outsiders! I hope you responded with amusement and not concern.

Does the triangle lead us to Euclid? or any other mathematician/philosopher?

Does the steeple refer to the bells on Christmas morn? Or other music?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Steeplechase racing? no
Village with Steeple as first part of name? no
The Steeple Players production of A Christmas Carol? no
The Christmas Feast at Steeple by Rider Haggard (seems very gory..) not for Rider Haggard it isn't
Steeple projects at Oxford university? no
Weather vane on top of steeple? Cockerel? no - this is just a steeple

The triangle - relevant: two legs? base? base angle? this vertex angle? Particular circumstance where isosceles triangle used? Relevant if it is equilateral? well, relevant that it isn't Is more than one triangle involved? no needed? Lots? Pennants?

Is the emphasis on the first syllable in entrance? yes

Does the triangle lead us to Euclid? yes indeed - excellent question or any other mathematician/philosopher?

Does the steeple refer to the bells yes on Christmas morn? no Or other music? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Regarding the triangle, are the words congruent or equal, relevant?

The steeple bells - anything to do with Ding Dong Merrily on High?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Regarding the triangle, are the words congruent or equal, this one relevant?

The steeple bells - anything to do with Ding Dong Merrily on High? no - a rather more sombre piece of verse than that
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Posted on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 6:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Triangle - This is how we got here: "In an isosceles triangle the angles at the base are equal." But I am unsure where this leads to Christmas...so let's do a little word association.
Elements? Theorems? Book 1? Equal legs? Acute angles? A whole host of cute angels - Cherubim?

Are the bells: Silver Bells? Jingle Bells? Sleigh Bells?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Bells - Carol of the Bells?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Triangle - This is how we got here: "In an isosceles triangle the angles at the base are equal." But I am unsure where this leads to Christmas...so let's do a little word association.
Elements? Theorems? Book 1? Equal legs? Acute angles? A whole host of cute angels - Cherubim? all bar the last of these are highly relevant, and should certainly be further explored (for the benefit of any laymen who may have wandered in, Kaygee refers here to Book I of Euclid's Elements, in particular to theorems relating to isosceles triangles...)

Are the bells: Silver Bells? Jingle Bells? Sleigh Bells? no - they are iron bells

Bells - Carol of the Bells? no - again, the bells play more sombre music than that
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the bells "toll the knell of parting day"? Incense figures a time or two? wreath? ivy?
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Relevant that the base angles specifically are not 60?
That Euclid involved more than one triangle in his proof?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Do the bells "toll the knell of parting day"? no Incense figures a time or two? I'm afraid I don't understand this question wreath? ivy? nothing to do with these

Relevant that the base angles specifically are not 60? not especially
That Euclid involved more than one triangle in his proof? proof of what? I should say here that no knowledge of geometry is required to solve this part of the puzzle, merely a knowledge of history...
Lynne (Lynne)
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Cow bells? They hardly have a jingly sound, although I doubt if they'd be counted as sombre. Anyway, the animals in the stable?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Forget cow bells - it was sombre verse that you said, and even at midnight on Christmas Eve I doubt that the cows broke into iambic pentameter.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Cow bells? They hardly have a jingly sound, although I doubt if they'd be counted as sombre. Anyway, the animals in the stable? these are not cow bells - these are iron bells, and they are in a steeple...
Lynne (Lynne)
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I always thought that cow bells were made of iron

So the bells in the steeple presumably are being tolled, and making 'sombre music'. Are they tolling for a funeral? If so, this would indicated myrrh.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the bells in the steeple presumably are being tolled, indeed, and if they've been tolled once they've been tolled a hundred times and making 'sombre music'. Are they tolling for a funeral? no If so, this would indicated myrrh. it might, but...
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Presumably not John Donne - how about Edgar Allan Poe?
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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No 13th door?
Might the Magi have studied Euclid's works? Been influenced in their journey/ star-following?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Presumably not John Donne - how about Edgar Allan Poe? exactly so - now then...

Might the Magi have studied Euclid's works? I suppose they might - after all, Euclid produced his Elements a good three centuries before the birth of Christ Been influenced in their journey/ star-following? again, they might, but not for the purposes of this puzzle.

Apologies for serious omission. Behind the thirteenth door is a picture of a gypsy playing a violin.
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Is the gypsy indoors or outdoors? playing on a stage? with audience? or alone?
Is he old? fine clothes? or dirty?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Maybe Ghita Bulencea (Georges Boulanger) is relevant? the song "Avant de mourir"/"My Prayer"?
"Gypsy Dances" relevant?
Is the violin player famous? or is the person himself not relevant?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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...or perhaps you mean that what we see is a picture? a painting of a gypsy playing violin?
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Is it relevant that the Vatican holds the books of Elements?

Is it relevant that the iron bells are being tolled by ghouls? king of the ghouls? Keeping time in a Runic rhyme?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Gypsy - 'lautari' relevant? Anagram being 'a ritual'. Or Tigani lautari.
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Gypsy = Minstrel?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the gypsy indoors this one or outdoors? playing on a stage? yes with audience? yes or alone?
Is he old? middle aged fine clothes? or dirty? dressed in appropriate clothes for giving a stage performance

Maybe Ghita Bulencea (Georges Boulanger) is relevant? no the song "Avant de mourir"/"My Prayer"?
"Gypsy Dances" relevant? no
Is the violin player famous? not at the present time, but he achieved a degree of fame half a century ago or so or is the person himself not relevant? on the contrary

Is it relevant that the Vatican holds the books of Elements? no

Is it relevant that the iron bells are being tolled by ghouls? yes indeed - excellent question king of the ghouls? possibly Keeping time in a Runic rhyme? that part is less relevant - what you need now is to explore the idea of the ghoul...

Gypsy - 'lautari' relevant? no Anagram being 'a ritual'. Or Tigani lautari. there are no anagrams in this part of the puzzle

Gypsy = Minstrel? no - gypsy = gypsy, and violin = violin
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ghoul - is the star, Algol, relevant?
Woubit (Woubit)
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ghoul - is the star, Algol, relevant? it is indeed - very well done.

Algol was certainly not the star that appeared over Bethlehem, but for the purposes of this Advent calendar, any star will do. This one was named in Arabic ra's al-ghul, or "head of the ghoul", and was clued in the puzzle by a man who spent most of his working life by himself in one steeple or another:

And the people - ah, the people -
They that dwell up in the steeple
All alone,
And who tolling, tolling, tolling,
In that muffled monotone,
Feel a glory in so rolling
On the human heart a stone:
They are neither man nor woman -
They are neither brute nor human -
They are Ghouls.


Edgar Allan Poe, The Bells

The fourteenth door is opened to reveal a picture of a flaming torch.
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Torch:
"torch singer" (they're a lateral bunch) relevant?
Statue of Liberty relevant?
Olympic games?
British politicians?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Torch:
"torch singer" (they're a lateral bunch) relevant? no
Statue of Liberty relevant? no
Olympic games? no, but some aspect of what happens to the Olympic torch is relevant
British politicians? they, in my experience, are completely irrelevant to everything
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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is anyone holding the torch? passing it to another?
Woubit (Woubit)
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is anyone holding the torch? no, but... passing it to another? ...yes, indeed
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The idea is that "entrance" means something in English, and "cafe" means something in French...

Could entrance mean to entrance/enchant rather than mean the way in?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Could entrance mean to entrance/enchant rather than mean the way in? on the contrary - the notion is very much that "entrance" means a way in...
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Intermediate summary

Ninth door: a pair of young boys, twins or at any rate alike in appearance, in a wretched state. They are accompanied by a man.
Pope Gregory I -> "Non angli sed angeli" -> an isosceles triangle -> Euclid and his book "Elements", part 1, in particular theorems about isosceles triangles -> base angles are equal in isosceles triangles and do not exceed 90 degrees

Tenth door: a picture of an old metal box -> match box -> Vesta (from Swan Vesta matches) is the relevant word

Eleventh door: A pair of swing doors. Above them the word "Entrance" is written.
The doors lead into a cafe, but are closed. The relevant part is that it is an entrance into a café.

Twelvth door: A man in a cloth cap.
Fred Dibnah -> steeplejack -> church steeple -> ghouls are tolling the bells (E A Poe) -> the star Algol -> the star of Bethlehem

Thirteenth door: A gipsy playing a violin.
Reference to a gipsy violin player that was famous in the 1950s.

Fourteenth door: A flaming torch.
Some aspect of what happens to the Olympic torch is relevant.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks very much, Sundowner. A couple of additional points:

Tenth door: a picture of an old metal box -> match box -> Vesta (from Swan Vesta matches) is the relevant word "vesta" should be preceded by the indefinite article - what we have here is a vesta...

Fourteenth door: A flaming torch.
Some aspect of what happens to the Olympic torch is relevant. in particular, it is relevant that this torch, like the Olympic torch, is being passed from one hand to another...
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that Avesta is a collection of sacred texts? Is the religeon Zoroastrianism relevant?

Any other words for cafe relevant? Bistro? Estaminet?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this the relay of the Olympic flame culminating in arriving at Olympic stadium? Honoured participants (including my 90+ year old aunt in Adelaide before the Beijing Olympics, I might proudly add) who pass the flame on around the world?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

9th door: Are the boys sad because they cannot become "right ones" (in whatever sense)?

10th door: Is the town of Avesta relevant? Dalarna horses?

11th door: Café as in coffee? Café-chantant? Café-thčatre? Café au lait? Café solo? (or maybe, the software Café solo?)

13th door: Is the guy Franz Reinhardt? (my first guess would have been Roby Lakatos but his fame is more recent)
If not: is he still alive? is or was he Hungarian? German? Irish? French? Spanish? Belgian? East European? South European?

14th door: is the torch itself passed from one hand to another? or just the flame passed from one torch to the next?
Is this some kind of ceremony or ritual? if so: does it prevail in our times?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant that Avesta is a collection of sacred texts? yes Is the religeon Zoroastrianism relevant? very much so

Any other words for cafe relevant? Bistro? Estaminet? you do not need an exact synonym for, or translation of, "cafe" - rather, you need a partial description of what a cafe is...
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 834
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this the relay of the Olympic flame culminating in arriving at Olympic stadium? Honoured participants (including my 90+ year old aunt in Adelaide before the Beijing Olympics, I might proudly add) who pass the flame on around the world? the torch in this picture is not the Olympic torch - all that matters about it is that it is a torch being passed from one hand to another
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 835
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

9th door: Are the boys sad because they cannot become "right ones" (in whatever sense)? no - all that needs to be known about them is that they are (identical) Angles, which has led to a theorem of Euclid on the properties of isosceles triangles...

10th door: Is the town of Avesta relevant? no Dalarna horses? no

11th door: Café as in coffee? Café-chantant? Café-thčatre? Café au lait? Café solo? (or maybe, the software Café solo?) none of these - again, what you need is some description of a cafe (in general, not any particular cafe)

13th door: Is the guy Franz Reinhardt? no (my first guess would have been Roby Lakatos but his fame is more recent)
If not: is he still alive? no, and it is a debatable question whether he actually ever was "alive" as such is or was he Hungarian? German? Irish? French? Spanish? Belgian? East European? South European? he was to some extent English

14th door: is the torch itself passed from one hand to another? yes or just the flame passed from one torch to the next? no
Is this some kind of ceremony or ritual? no if so: does it prevail in our times?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 613
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

10th door: a particular property of isosceles triangles relevant? isosceles triangles in general? Euklid? Euklidian geometry? (or maybe, non-Euklidian geometry?) Gauss?

11th door: café = établissement? money is the entrance to the establishment?

13th door: Is it a fictious violin player? does he appear in a poem? in a song? in a piece of literature?

14th door: is it a real torch? a picture of a torch? (on a coat of arms?) an electrical torch?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 2393
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the cafe a clue to the french verb to eat i.e. Manger? Is there a manger behind door 11?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 1389
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Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooh, if Peter's "Manger" guess isn't right, it should be. Great one!

If it's not manger, are we looking for a synonym of cafe? --> diner? coffee shop? restaurant? deli?

Triangle --> are we looking for something that is shaped like an isosceles triangle? Or for something about the properties of isosceles trianges?

Is the idiom "passing the torch" relevant? Are we looking for someone who has passed a role or responsibility on to their protege/someone else?
Woubit (Woubit)
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Post Number: 836
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

10th door: a particular property of isosceles triangles relevant? yes isosceles triangles in general? well, this particular property is true of all isosceles triangles Euklid? yes Euklidian geometry? yes (or maybe, non-Euklidian geometry? no&