| Author | Message | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 711 Registered: 5-2007 |
This is woubit's Christmas puzzle for 2009. Proceed. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1256 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is there an old piano? If not, what is there? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 712 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is there an old piano? no If not, what is there? whereas some years ago now, it was I who introduced the concept of the "LTPF List" as shorthand for multiple questions of the form "Is it an A? Is it a B?..." I am not yet prepared to admit the notion of the LTPF List of Everything. What there is remains for me to know and for you to discover. The title of the puzzle may help. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1260 Registered: 7-2009 |
The "what is there" question was a (rather oblique) test of whether it was a woubit *adventure* Christmas puzzle. I guess your answer is a rather resounding no. =) Any people relevant? If so, HAM? If so, how many [LTPF of groups sizes] | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 713 Registered: 5-2007 |
The "what is there" question was a (rather oblique) test of whether it was a woubit *adventure* Christmas puzzle. I guess your answer is a rather resounding no. =) not resounding at all - in fact, I am not sure whether I would answer flatly "no", although on balance I probably would. But this is not a puzzle where solvers and the setter have roles to play in some kind of game. Any people relevant? yes If so, HAM? at least one of them is If so, how many [LTPF of groups sizes] as yet I do not know, but I anticipate that the number of people involved will not exceed a dozen | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 738 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is the LTPF relevant? Not more than a dozen of people=us? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1908 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is there more than one possible solution to this puzzle? If so, are the solutions based on some characteristic of the solvers? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 714 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the LTPF relevant? no, except that I hope members of it will join in the puzzle Not more than a dozen of people=us? either you can't count or I can't, but I estimate the number of LTPF members at slightly greater than a dozen. Still, your estimate may be right for what are called "sufficiently large values of twelve" Is there more than one possible solution to this puzzle? difficult question. woubit Christmas puzzles have all involved many conundrums to solve within a single context, and so does this one. But at each step, I know what I have in mind as "the puzzle", and there is only one "solution" (even though solvers always come up with much better solutions than mine) If so, are the solutions based on some characteristic of the solvers? no - that was last year's puzzle, and I am told by my six-month-old great-nephew that I should therefore describe it as "so 2008" | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2356 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is there a green door anywhere in this puzzle? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1262 Registered: 7-2009 |
Do we have to identify people? and the number of people we have to identify will be determined by how many we figure out by the predetermined end date of the puzzle? Are we now concerned with just one person? Who is HAM? Is a piano relevant? Musical instruments? Christmas songs? Singers? Musicians? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 837 Registered: 3-2004 |
Social events relevant? Politics relevant? Movies relevant? Literature relevant? Is the puzzle relevant? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1414 Registered: 11-2008 |
Do they play it hot behind the green door? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 716 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is there a green door anywhere in this puzzle? yes, indeed Do we have to identify people? among other things, yes and the number of people we have to identify will be determined by how many we figure out by the predetermined end date of the puzzle? no Are we now concerned with just one person? no, but there is at least one person involved... Who is HAM? ...who is to some extent human, not an adult, and a male Is a piano relevant? no Musical instruments? some of these will be relevant, but the LTPF List of Musical Instruments will not avail you Christmas songs? no Singers? yes Musicians? no Social events relevant? no Politics relevant? no Movies relevant? no Literature relevant? not really Is the puzzle relevant? no Do they play it hot behind the green door? they do not, but... | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1272 Registered: 7-2009 |
For anyone else who's as lost as I was, here are the lyrics to the old piano/green door song everyone seems to be referring to. I've never heard it. (http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/g/greendoor.shtml) Is there something hidden that someone can't see? Is someone laughing a lot? Does someone not know what they're doing? Did Joe send you? or send someone? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 717 Registered: 5-2007 |
For anyone else who's as lost as I was, here are the lyrics to the old piano/green door song everyone seems to be referring to. I've never heard it. (http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/g/greendoor.shtml) Is there something hidden that someone can't see? yes Is someone laughing a lot? no Does someone not know what they're doing? no Did Joe send you? or send someone? neither | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1274 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is the someone who can't see the hidden something the somewhat human boy? Is the somewhat H non-adult male a child? Or a baby? By somewhat human boy, do you mean an elf? A fairy? Pinocchio? Peter Pan? A boy who is a character in something? An imaginary friend? Is the thing someone can't see an object? A person? A view? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 718 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the someone who can't see the hidden something the somewhat human boy? no Is the somewhat H non-adult male a child? Or a baby? this one By somewhat human boy, do you mean an elf? A fairy? Pinocchio? Peter Pan? A boy who is a character in something? An imaginary friend? I mean none of those Is the thing someone can't see an object? yes A person? A view? the last is closer, but not really very close at all | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 852 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is this "the kind of puzzle where the answer changes daily" (quotation from another puzzle)? (I wasn't here last Christmas...) A choir relevant? church choir? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 719 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is this "the kind of puzzle where the answer changes daily" (quotation from another puzzle)? no (I wasn't here last Christmas...) A choir relevant? not at this stage, no church choir? no | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 953 Registered: 7-2001 |
is the baby boy Jesus? is the Nativity relevant? are any of these relevant - angels? shepherds? kings? presents? sheep? a stable? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 720 Registered: 5-2007 |
is the baby boy Jesus? yes, indeed is the Nativity relevant? yes are any of these relevant - angels? shepherds? kings? presents? sheep? a stable? not at this stage in the proceedings, no | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1282 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is the thing that is hidden from view the nativity scene? Part of it? Someone in it? Is it hidden from the view of someone in the scene? Of someone else? Baby Jesus being "hidden" from Herod relevant? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 859 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is it a star that this "someone" can't see? Is Jesus just born? this very day? | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 954 Registered: 7-2001 |
so is Jesus still in utero at the time of the puzzle? being born? just born? is the journey to Bethlehem relevant? the donkey ride? looking for a room at the inn? being refused? the census relevant? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1911 Registered: 5-2003 |
Carols involved? Hymns? Prayers? Is it the infant Jesus? I'm an atheist of Jewish upbringing, and have never read much of the New Testament. Is knowledge of the NT or Xmas traditions required to solve? You don't know how many people are involved, but you estimate around a dozen will turn up. This will occur in the process of solving this puzzle? Are all of the dozen contemporaries of Jesus? Are they all human? Or are they some sort of abstraction (like "mankind"?) Are the location and time period relevant? Is this actually set in or around 4 BC, in or near Palestine? Any sciences involved (like astronomy) or pseudosciences (like astrology)? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4202 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is the green door on an advent calender? Hiding a picture of the crib? Is this an ADVENTure puzzle? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2358 Registered: 1-2007 |
Inspired Lynne . That deserves to be right. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 722 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the green door on an advent calender? Hiding a picture of the crib? Is this an ADVENTure puzzle? it is indeed, and for that reason I will not provide answers to the other questions above, but thank you all for submitting them. Now then: This is the LTPF 2009 Advent Calendar. For those not familiar with the custom, Advent in the Christian liturgical calendar is the period before Christmas that begins on whichever Sunday falls between November 25th and December 3rd, so this year, the first Sunday in Advent was November 29th. An Advent calendar is two pieces of cardboard superimposed, with the top layer holding 24 doors and the bottom layer 24 pictures. One door is opened on each of the first 24 days in December to reveal a picture related in some way to Christmas. It is now December 5th, and five doors on the LTPF calendar have already been opened. Behind the first is a picture of a pair of ballet shoes. Behind the second is a picture of a bakery standing in the shadow of a windmill. Behind the third is a picture of a cockerel in full voice. Behind the fourth is a picture of a man dressed in a white coat standing on one leg. Behind the fifth is a picture of Robert Fischer and Boris Spassky. Now, these pictures do not seem to have a great deal to do with Christmas at the moment. But of course, this is a puzzle calendar, and your mission is to determine exactly how each of these pictures does in fact relate to Christmas. As usual in woubit Christmas puzzles, any and all reference aids may be freely used. Good luck. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 885 Registered: 3-2004 |
The ballet shoes: referring to one specific ballet? Nutcracker? A Christmas Carol? The Christmas Ballet? Snow Queen? Bakery/Windmill: any specific bakery relevant? "Windmill Bakery"? Christmas cakes/cookies relevant? Cockerel: Waking people for the early Christmas Service? Being served for Christmas dinner? Man in white coat: Movie "Christmas Story" relevant? Fischer/Spassky: Chess relevant? Iceland? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1928 Registered: 5-2003 |
Ballet shoes = the Nutcracker? Will you be providing a sixth picture tomorrow, a seventh on Monday, and so on? Are puns involved? Synonyms? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 723 Registered: 5-2007 |
The ballet shoes: referring to one specific ballet? no Nutcracker? A Christmas Carol? The Christmas Ballet? Snow Queen? and therefore to none of these Bakery/Windmill: any specific bakery relevant? no "Windmill Bakery"? no Christmas cakes/cookies relevant? no Cockerel: Waking people for the early Christmas Service? no, but this is closer to the truth than... Being served for Christmas dinner? ...this Man in white coat: Movie "Christmas Story" relevant? no Fischer/Spassky: Chess relevant? yes Iceland? no Ballet shoes = the Nutcracker? no Will you be providing a sixth picture tomorrow, a seventh on Monday, and so on? I hope so, at any rate Are puns involved? in some cases Synonyms? in other cases | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 887 Registered: 3-2004 |
Does each picture have a relation to Christmas in itself. through one or more steps, without relation to/combination with any other of the pictures? So with five open doors we have five different relations to Christmas? Chess musical relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 725 Registered: 5-2007 |
Does each picture have a relation to Christmas in itself. through one or more steps, without relation to/combination with any other of the pictures? yes So with five open doors we have five different relations to Christmas? precisely so Chess musical relevant? no | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 889 Registered: 3-2004 |
Any other language than English relevant? for instance French? Any relevance to the number on each door? the date they represent? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 726 Registered: 5-2007 |
Any other language than English relevant? vaguely for instance French? no Any relevance to the number on each door? no the date they represent? no - these five pictures could have come in any order | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 890 Registered: 3-2004 |
...like "Ballet Shoes" is written by Noel Streatfield? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4203 Registered: 12-2000 |
Wow - so this is not a chocolate filled Barbie Advent Calender? Good! Chess - anything to do with the King? Jesus the King of the Jews? Or the Queen - Mary the Queen of Heaven? Bishop - St Nicholas was a Bishop? Pawn - served with Thousand Island Sauce at any self-respecting 1970s restaurant. Sorry, that should be prawns. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 727 Registered: 5-2007 |
...like "Ballet Shoes" is written by Noel Streatfield? no, but that is a pretty good piece of the right kind of thinking Chess - anything to do with the King? no Jesus the King of the Jews? Or the Queen - Mary the Queen of Heaven? no Bishop - St Nicholas was a Bishop? indeed he was, and he is indeed important, but not for being a bishop... Pawn ...this, though, is on the right lines - served with Thousand Island Sauce at any self-respecting 1970s restaurant. Sorry, that should be prawns. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4204 Registered: 12-2000 |
The man in a white coat - anything to do with cricket? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 728 Registered: 5-2007 |
The man in a white coat - anything to do with cricket? yes, indeed | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 891 Registered: 3-2004 |
The white-coated cricketeer, does he hold up the other leg? or does he only have one leg? relevant? Pawn-shop relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4205 Registered: 12-2000 |
The umpire David Shepherd? Connection to Christmas being The Good Shepherd? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4206 Registered: 12-2000 |
Oh, another connection. David - Jesus was from the line of David. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 892 Registered: 3-2004 |
The Christmas Eve "Mass of the Rooster" relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4207 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is the bakery in the shadow of Mount Pleasant Windmill? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 893 Registered: 3-2004 |
Maybe we could go from that white-coated man to "Jiminy Cricket", at least in Sweden he presents excerpts from Disney movies every Christmas Eve...? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 729 Registered: 5-2007 |
The white-coated cricketer, FA, but help is at hand - see below does he hold up the other leg? yes or does he only have one leg? no relevant? yes Pawn-shop relevant? yes, indeed The umpire David Shepherd? quite so - well done Connection to Christmas being The Good Shepherd? but not quite so Oh, another connection. David - Jesus was from the line of David. indeed he was, but this is not what is meant by the picture of umpire David Shepherd on the LTPF Advent calendar The Christmas Eve "Mass of the Rooster" relevant? no, but a most impressive piece either of knowledge or of research Is the bakery in the shadow of Mount Pleasant Windmill? it is not | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 730 Registered: 5-2007 |
Maybe we could go from that white-coated man to "Jiminy Cricket", at least in Sweden he presents excerpts from Disney movies every Christmas Eve...? an inspired piece of thinking - as I said, the solvers of woubit Christmas puzzles invariably outdo the setter in ingenuity and imagination. Not right, as it happens, but no less inspired for that. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4208 Registered: 12-2000 |
St Nicholas was the patron saint of Pawn Brokers. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 731 Registered: 5-2007 |
St Nicholas was the patron saint of Pawn Brokers. indeed he was, and that is the reason why Saint Nicholas - or Santa Claus, perhaps from his Dutch name Sinterklaas - is represented on the LTPF Advent Calendar by a couple of famous chess players or (at least, in the silly imagination of a woubit) "pawnbrokers". December 6th is the feast of Saint Nicholas, an important part of the Christmas celebrations in many countries. If anyone from any of them is reading this puzzle, my best wishes to you. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4209 Registered: 12-2000 |
David Shepherd would stand on one leg if the score was 111 as it was considered bad luck and would remain there until the score moved on. But I can't yet work out what that has to do with Christmas. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 732 Registered: 5-2007 |
David Shepherd would stand on one leg if the score was 111 as it was considered bad luck and would remain there until the score moved on. But I can't yet work out what that has to do with Christmas. indeed he would, and that is certainly relevant. Fear not - either the solution will come to you, or Peter365 will come to us with the answer sometime tomorrow. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4210 Registered: 12-2000 |
David Shepherd was known for having a Father Christmas like appearance? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4211 Registered: 12-2000 |
What crew the cockerel On Christmas morn? It crew Christus natus est! Loudly Christus natus est! Gladly Christus natus est! Christ, the Christ is born! | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 733 Registered: 5-2007 |
David Shepherd was known for having a Father Christmas like appearance? perhaps he was, but Father Christmas has already been represented on this calendar by the chessplayers What crew the cockerel On Christmas morn? It crew Christus natus est! Loudly Christus natus est! Gladly Christus natus est! Christ, the Christ is born! that wasn't a cockerel. That was a parrot who, because he could speak Latin and English with equal facility, went by the name of Polly Glot. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4212 Registered: 12-2000 |
Hamlet relevant? The cockerel crowed from Christmas Eve to Christmas Morning? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 734 Registered: 5-2007 |
Hamlet relevant? no The cockerel crowed from Christmas Eve to Christmas Morning? indeed it did. Moreover: there was "not a mouse stirring"; a king appeared who boded "some strange eruption to our state"; Hamlet himself was dressed in "suits of woe" doubtless given to him by his aunts and soon to be returned to Marks and Spencers; and everyone had cold leftovers to eat. It had not previously occurred to me (nor, perhaps, to any Shakespearean scholar) that the play was really all about Christmas, but I am grateful to you for drawing my attention to the fact. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1290 Registered: 7-2009 |
Ballet shoes --> a dance? a ballot? dancers? Nine ladies dancing, perhaps? The color pink relevant? If relevant, are they toe shoes? Or flats? I had to look up cockerel, and saw that it was a rooster younger than one year. Relevant that it was a young male? Or would a picture of a rooster work as well? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 735 Registered: 5-2007 |
To recapitulate: Thanks to Lynne's inspired insight, this puzzle has now been revealed as the LTPF Advent Calendar for 2009. One door on the calendar will be opened each day from December 1st to December 24th. Behind each door is a picture that, as with traditional Advent calendars, is related to Christmas. However, the relationship between the picture and Christmas is not immediately obvious (or at least, I hope that it is not) and to solve the puzzle, you need to discover why each picture really does represent some part of Christmas tradition. The state of play this morning is as follows: Behind the first door is a picture of a pair of ballet shoes. You know only that no particular ballet is involved in the relationship between this picture and Christmas. Behind the second door is a picture of a bakery standing in the shadow of a windmill. You know only that this is a non-specific bakery; moreover, it stands in the shadow of no specific windmill. Behind the third door is a picture of a cockerel in full voice. You know that this is not the bird who sang of the birth of Christ in English and in Latin. Apart from that, you don't know much, but you might explore other languages... Behind the fourth door is a picture of a man dressed in a white coat standing on one leg. You know that this is the cricket umpire David Shepherd, who is standing on one leg because the batting side has reached a total of precisely 111. You know also that the relevance of this is not because he is a shepherd, nor that his name is David, nor that he bears some physical resemblance to Father Christmas. Behind the fifth door is a picture of Robert Fischer and Boris Spassky. You know all that there is to be known about this, again thanks to the inspired Lynne. Fischer and Spassky were chess players, or "pawnbrokers" (think about it), and Saint Nicholas - Father Christmas himself - was the patron saint of pawnbrokers (among many, many other things). Behind the sixth door is a portrait of the Irish poet William Butler Yeats. You know nothing about this at all, because the green door (see preamble) behind which it appears has only just been opened. As usual, all aids to reference may be fully and freely used. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1292 Registered: 7-2009 |
6th door --> Is the poem "The Second Coming" relevant? Particularly the last couple of lines, about something being born in Bethlehem? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1293 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is the windmill in Holland? Does the windmill provide power for something associated with the bakery? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 736 Registered: 5-2007 |
6th door --> Is the poem "The Second Coming" relevant? Particularly the last couple of lines, about something being born in Bethlehem? no, but a brilliant elimination of a red herring. As I have had occasion to mention before (at least every Christmas) about the people on the LTPF, you guys are good. Is the windmill in Holland? yes Does the windmill provide power for something associated with the bakery? no | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1294 Registered: 7-2009 |
Bakery --> are any of the following baked treats relevant: Letter cake? Peppernoot? A Dutch Christmas Ring Cake? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1295 Registered: 7-2009 |
Also, you missed my questions from just before your big recapitulation (q's about ballet shoes and the cockerel). | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 737 Registered: 5-2007 |
Bakery --> are any of the following baked treats relevant: no Letter cake? Peppernoot? A Dutch Christmas Ring Cake? as a clue, for you deserve one, the thing about the bakery is purely and simply that it is a Dutch bakery. What it bakes is neither here nor there. Also, you missed my questions from just before your big recapitulation (q's about ballet shoes and the cockerel). My apologies Ballet shoes --> a dance? a ballot? dancers? Nine ladies dancing, perhaps? The color pink relevant? If relevant, are they toe shoes? Or flats? none of those, I'm afraid. Seems like a dream now, it was so long ago... I had to look up cockerel, and saw that it was a rooster younger than one year. Relevant that it was a young male? Or would a picture of a rooster work as well? well it was said by the bard: I sometimes think I'd rather crow And be a rooster than I'd roost And be a crow. But I dunno. A rooster he can roost also, Which don't seem fair when crows can't crow. Which may help some. But I dunno. Crows should be glad of one thing, though: Nobody thinks of eating crow, While roosters, they are good enough For anyone - unless they're tough. There's lots of tough old roosters, though, And anyhow a crow can't crow. So mebbe roosters stand more show. It looks that way. But I dunno. The exact age of the bird in question does not matter all that much, look you. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4213 Registered: 12-2000 |
Speculaas (Dutch Windmill) shortcrust biscuits are eaten on December 5th on St Nicholas (Sinterklass) Eve in Holland. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4214 Registered: 12-2000 |
William Butler Yeats wrote a poem called The Magi | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 909 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is it even relevant about the bakery that it is a bakery? or just that it is Dutch? could it have been another house and a windmill? The male vocal group "Chanticleer" has made a CD called "Sing We Christmas" and one "A Chanticleer Christmas"... ;-) Is it the work of William Yeats that is relevant for the puzzle? or his name? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2359 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is the fact that the cricket score of 111 or any multiples thereof is known as Nelson relevant? Or the fact that it is considered unlucky is because each figure one represents the three cricket stumps? Australian cricketers consider the number 87 (thirteen shy of 100) unlucky. Is this relevant? Just a wild thought, are The Beatles relevant? They had 3 christmas number ones in a row and this could be a sort of cryptic Nelson? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 739 Registered: 5-2007 |
Speculaas (Dutch Windmill) shortcrust biscuits are eaten on December 5th on St Nicholas (Sinterklass) Eve in Holland. indeed they are, but the relevance of the bakery is only that it is a bakery - what it produces does not matter much William Butler Yeats wrote a poem called The Magi he did, and that might have been the answer but for the fact that it isn't. The actual answer is buried rather more deeply than that, in a single line of a poem by Yeats that has nothing to do with Christmas per se. Is it even relevant about the bakery that it is a bakery? yes or just that it is Dutch? and especially that it is Dutch could it have been another house no and a windmill? the windmill does not really matter - it was put there only to give the clue that this is a Dutch bakery The male vocal group "Chanticleer" has made a CD called "Sing We Christmas" and one "A Chanticleer Christmas"... ;-) have they, by golly? Is it the work of William Yeats that is relevant for the puzzle? this one or his name? and not this one Is the fact that the cricket score of 111 or any multiples thereof is known as Nelson relevant? very much so, indeed Or the fact that it is considered unlucky is because each figure one represents the three cricket stumps? no Australian cricketers consider the number 87 (thirteen shy of 100) unlucky. Is this relevant? no - doubtless when batting against England, Australians also regard 687 as unlucky Just a wild thought, are The Beatles relevant? no They had 3 christmas number ones in a row and this could be a sort of cryptic Nelson? indeed it could, but you need only consider the life of Admiral Nelson | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4229 Registered: 12-2000 |
Yeats' poem. Is it Upon a Dying Lady? Her friends bring her a Christmas tree. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 740 Registered: 5-2007 |
Yeats' poem. Is it Upon a Dying Lady? Her friends bring her a Christmas tree. they do, but again the solution is hidden rather more deeply than this. The line of verse in question is one of Yeats's better known, and the poem itself, though not relevant to Christmas, includes some element of the divine. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4230 Registered: 12-2000 |
A Prayer on Going into my House No table or chair or stool not simple enough For shepherd lads in Galilee - would these represent the shepherds to whom the angels sang? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4231 Registered: 12-2000 |
At least when I make an ass of myself I'm in good company, having the honour to transport Mary to Bethlehem and Jesus into Jerusalem. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 741 Registered: 5-2007 |
A Prayer on Going into my House not that, but good thinking indeed At least when I make an ass of myself I'm in good company, having the honour to transport Mary to Bethlehem and Jesus into Jerusalem. time, perhaps, for some rather weightier poetry than I normally deliver, but your senitment was very well expressed by: When fishes flew and forests walked And figs grew upon thorn, Some moment when the moon was blood Then surely I was born With monstrous head and sickening cry And ears like errant wings, The devil's walking parody On all four-footed things. The tattered outlaw of the earth, Of ancient crooked will. Starve, scourge, deride me - I am dumb, I keep my secret still. Fools! For I also had my hour - One far fierce hour and sweet: There was a shout about my ears, And palms before my feet. G K Chesterton, The Donkey | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 913 Registered: 3-2004 |
2/12: Any relevance to the Christmas story "The Three Skaters"? The ballet shoes - are they just representing "dance"? or a place where ballet is performed? or a ballet dancer? famous ballet dancer? male? female? Or is "ballet" not relevant at all? could they be any shoes? Painyings with ballet motifs relevant? Books/poetry concerning ballet relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 742 Registered: 5-2007 |
2/12: Any relevance to the Christmas story "The Three Skaters"? no, but more good thinking. I remind you, though, that in woubit Christmas puzzles, things are often hidden more than one level below the surface. The Dutch bakery in question neither bakes Christmas goods nor has any relevance to Christmas as such. It's a Dutch bakery, no more, no less. The ballet shoes - are they just representing "dance"? no or a place where ballet is performed? no or a ballet dancer? yes - now we're cooking with gas famous ballet dancer? indeed male? female? this one Or is "ballet" not relevant at all? could they be any shoes? they could not Painyings with ballet motifs relevant?no Books/poetry concerning ballet relevant? no - just a dancer | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4232 Registered: 12-2000 |
Margot Fonteyn? Darcey Bussell? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 914 Registered: 3-2004 |
Anna Pavlova relevant? Tamara Karsavina? Svetlana Zakharova? Marie Taglioni? "Dame Margot Fonteyn de Arias" relevant (she was born hookham)? Is the relevant female dancer living now? from 20th century? 19th? earlier? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1310 Registered: 7-2009 |
Anna Pavlova? Martha Graham? Marie Camargo? Olga Preobrajenska? Pierina Legnani? Avdotia Istomina? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1311 Registered: 7-2009 |
For the bakery, any of the following relevant?... Going dutch? Dutch oven? The cuisine of a particular region of the Netherlands? A particular city? The fact that part of the country is below sea level? The fact that marijuana is legal in Amsterdam? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 916 Registered: 3-2004 |
Bonus question: which one of those I mentioned was born in Sweden? With "The Three Skaters" I thought I was more than one level from a bakery and a windmill... The cockerel: any connection between it and religion relevant? with any specific country? with a person? with a performance? an event? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 743 Registered: 5-2007 |
Margot Fonteyn? Darcey Bussell? neither of these, but... Anna Pavlova relevant? ...this one Tamara Karsavina? Svetlana Zakharova? Marie Taglioni? "Dame Margot Fonteyn de Arias" relevant (she was born hookham)? Is the relevant female dancer living now? from 20th century? 19th? earlier? Anna Pavlova died in 1931 Anna Pavlova? see above Martha Graham? Marie Camargo? Olga Preobrajenska? Pierina Legnani? Avdotia Istomina? For the bakery, any of the following relevant?... Going dutch? Dutch oven? The cuisine of a particular region of the Netherlands? A particular city? The fact that part of the country is below sea level? The fact that marijuana is legal in Amsterdam? none of the above. Think literally rather than laterally for a moment. Bonus question: which one of those I mentioned was born in Sweden? never heard of Marie Taglioni, so perhaps it was she. Fonteyn was born in Reigate, which is not yet in Sweden, although a couple of centuries of global warming may change that. Zakharova is Ukrainian. With "The Three Skaters" I thought I was more than one level from a bakery and a windmill... well, perhaps. But "The Three Skaters" concerns an actual baker by trade. This puzzle does not. The cockerel: any connection between it and religion relevant? no, not really with any specific country? yes, indeed with a person? no with a performance? yes an event? well, "event" is so vague a word that I will answer "yes" anyway | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2360 Registered: 1-2007 |
Yeats poem "A prayer on going into my house" mentions "Shepherd lads in Galilee" could it be this? If not I'll rattle off a few of my favourites, Lake Isle of Innisfree? Easter 1916? Aedh wishes for the cloths of heaven? Sailing to Byzantium? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4233 Registered: 12-2000 |
So the only relevant thing out of the bakery and the windmill is that it is something in Holland? Although you said earlier that it is a Dutch bakery, no more no less, the baker and the baked items are irrelevant? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 919 Registered: 3-2004 |
OK, so we have Ballet Shoes -> Anna Pavlova... Relevant that she's famous for playing a Swan? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2361 Registered: 1-2007 |
Sorry didn't spot that Lynne had beaten me to it with a prayer on going into my house. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 920 Registered: 3-2004 |
...or should we leave ballet and go a step from Anna Pavlova to something unrelated to ballet? related to her name? going to Pavlov? and Pavlov's dog? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4234 Registered: 12-2000 |
Not to worry, Peter! I confess that Yeats had slipped underneath my radar until now; only another 425 poems to go... ;-) | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 921 Registered: 3-2004 |
Otherwise I had a path from Dame Margot Fonteyn -> Rudolf Nurejev -> a certain red-nosed reindeer... | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 745 Registered: 5-2007 |
Yeats poem "A prayer on going into my house" mentions "Shepherd lads in Galilee" could it be this? If not I'll rattle off a few of my favourites, Lake Isle of Innisfree? Easter 1916? Aedh wishes for the cloths of heaven? this one - now then... Sailing to Byzantium? So the only relevant thing out of the bakery and the windmill is that it is something in Holland? Although you said earlier that it is a Dutch bakery, no more no less, the baker and the baked items are irrelevant? well, the relevant thing is that it is a bakery in Holland. The baker and the baked do not matter one iota. OK, so we have Ballet Shoes -> Anna Pavlova... Relevant that she's famous for playing a Swan? no - relevant only that she is Anna Pavlova, who... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4235 Registered: 12-2000 |
Pavlov's dogs - I did a puzzle once on the same experiment being done on goldfish, but working that into a Christmas theme is a fish too far. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 922 Registered: 3-2004 |
Anna Pavlova -> Russia? other country relevant (she died in Netherlands - at a bakery?)? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 746 Registered: 5-2007 |
...or should we leave ballet and go a step from Anna Pavlova to something unrelated to ballet? indeed you should related to her name? very much so going to Pavlov? and Pavlov's dog? no - just stick with what you have Otherwise I had a path from Dame Margot Fonteyn -> Rudolf Nurejev -> a certain red-nosed reindeer... splendid thinking, but Pavlova died seven years before Nureyev was born | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 747 Registered: 5-2007 |
Anna Pavlova -> Russia? other country relevant (she died in Netherlands - at a bakery?)? no, but I suppose that some baked goods might in this case be relevant. Just as some woubit puzzles are further from the surface than you might expect, others are nearer... | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2362 Registered: 1-2007 |
The fact that the Pavlova dessert is named after her? Is it traditional as a christmas desert in some countries? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4236 Registered: 12-2000 |
The food Pavlova? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2363 Registered: 1-2007 |
We probably being a bit overactive on this puzzle leading to some cross posting? Here is the beautiful poem by Yeats. Haven't figured out the christmas link yet.... Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dream | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 748 Registered: 5-2007 |
The fact that the Pavlova dessert is named after her? by George, he's got it Is it traditional as a Christmas desert in some countries? it is indeed, and to save you the trouble, I will tell you that in Australia and New Zealand, Pavlova is the equivalent of Christmas pudding. The first and the fifth doors of the LTPF 2009 Advent Calendar are now solved - behind the first is a Christmas pudding, behind the fifth is Father Christmas. The seventh will be opened tomorrow, but you still have much with which to work. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4237 Registered: 12-2000 |
I did find that one, Peter, and it's lovely, but like you haven't figured out the Christmas connection. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1313 Registered: 7-2009 |
Anna Pavlova has a dessert named after her (Pavlova) that, according to Wikipedia, is frequently served at Christmas. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1314 Registered: 7-2009 |
Dang, guess I was a bit slow on that one! | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 923 Registered: 3-2004 |
Peter365: If you think so, you can stop by at my puzzles for a while... ;-) Cockerel: did I understand correctly that here we should think about another language than English? which is not French? a European language? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2364 Registered: 1-2007 |
16 posts in 22 minutes . Is this an LTPF record? Have to go to bed now I have to get up at 6. There'll probably be another 100 posts by the time I get back to this. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4238 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is the Dutch word for bakery relevant? bakkerij | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 749 Registered: 5-2007 |
We probably being a bit overactive on this puzzle leading to some cross posting? oh, not to worry - better too many questions than too few Here is the beautiful poem by Yeats. Haven't figured out the Christmas link yet.... Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams Beautiful indeed, and woe betide the cynical bard who wrote the abridged version: Had I the heaven's embroidered cloths, No doubt they'd all be full of moths. The "Christmas link" here is buried deep, and cannot be gleaned from a literal inspection of the poem. But as Jenburdoo perceptively asked, puns and synonyms play a part in this puzzle... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4239 Registered: 12-2000 |
Peter - there were once four posts in one minute... | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 750 Registered: 5-2007 |
Cockerel: did I understand correctly that here we should think about another language than English? you did which is not French? it is not a European language? it is indeed Is the Dutch word for bakery relevant? yes, but... bakkerij ...not this word | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1316 Registered: 7-2009 |
Cloths of heaven --> swaddling clothes for the baby Jesus? Robes worn by angels? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 924 Registered: 3-2004 |
Could "broodwinkel" or "bakkerswinkel" be relevant then? (seems to mean "bread shop" more than bakery, but... Maybe gebak? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2365 Registered: 1-2007 |
The 6th line is relevant because it the first one without the letter L in it. The First Noel so to speak? After that silly post I really am going to bed now. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4240 Registered: 12-2000 |
gebakken - baked bakker - baker baksel - baking Any of these, or is there another word for bakery itself that we should be looking for? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4241 Registered: 12-2000 |
I don't care if it's wrong, or that this is not a democracy, but I vote for Peter's First Noel. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4242 Registered: 12-2000 |
even though there is in fact an L in the 6th row. When did we ever let the truth get in the way of a good answer? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 927 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is it one single word in the Yeats poem that is relevant for fonding The Next Step? Maybe Aedh himself? then going to sun? fire? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 928 Registered: 3-2004 |
Maybe I should go to sleep as well, my schpellink is becoming worse by the minute... | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 751 Registered: 5-2007 |
Cloths of heaven --> swaddling clothes for the baby Jesus? Robes worn by angels? no - again, this link is obscure, and cannot be found by reading the poem literally Could "broodwinkel" or "bakkerswinkel" be relevant then? (seems to mean "bread shop" more than bakery, but... Maybe gebak? none of these, but it is true that you need some word other than simply "bakken" or derivatives thereof to complete the actual Dutch word you seek The 6th line is relevant because it the first one without the letter L in it. The First Noel so to speak? once again, my admiration for the ingenuity of those who solve woubit Christmas puzzles is close to unbounded. That particular solution is not right, but it deserves to be. gebakken - baked bakker - baker baksel - baking Any of these, or is there another word for bakery itself that we should be looking for? there is, and you should perhaps recall that in former days prior to mass production, such tasks as baking for a village or town were carried out in a domestic rather than an industrial setting... I don't care if it's wrong, or that this is not a democracy, but I vote for Peter's First Noel. oh, I would vote for it also and wish I had thought of it. And yet, unimaginative woubit though I am, this puzzle is a poor thing but mine own, so I must with regret dismiss Peter's solution. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 752 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is it one single word in the Yeats poem that is relevant for finding The Next Step? no - there are precisely two relevant words, that appear consecutively Maybe Aedh himself? then going to sun? fire? not this kind of thing | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1321 Registered: 7-2009 |
kitchen = keuken oven = kachel | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 753 Registered: 5-2007 |
kitchen = keuken oven = kachel you have descended from the general to the specific. Reverse direction, and... | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 931 Registered: 3-2004 |
"embroidered cloths" would get my vote for two important consecutive words by Yeats, would it get your Christmas vote? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1322 Registered: 7-2009 |
Other possible consecutive words that might mean something... silver light --> ? tinsel? dark cloths --> ? half light --> ? Might have something to do with Christmas supposedly being the longest night of the year originally? being poor --> ? tread softly --> ? I like "embroidered cloths" though... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4243 Registered: 12-2000 |
Have spread - your mother always had crab paste on sandwiches for Christmas tea? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 932 Registered: 3-2004 |
Back to the Netherlands: "Bakhuis"? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4244 Registered: 12-2000 |
Baking day - baksel dag ? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 935 Registered: 3-2004 |
While it doesn't really fit with the clues, I like "peperkoek huizen"... ...I'll ask anyway if it's relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4245 Registered: 12-2000 |
cockerel German - junger Hahn Dutch - jonge haan Italian - galletto Portugese - galo novo Spanish - pollo Any of these? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 937 Registered: 3-2004 |
"pollo" in Spanish? I thought it would be gallo? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4246 Registered: 12-2000 |
Tommyp - according to Yahoo's Babelfish translator it's pollo, but I bow to your superior knowledge as I wouldn't have the foggiest. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4247 Registered: 12-2000 |
Nelson's life After he was killed his body was preserved in brandy. Brandy butter is a popular addition to the Christmas table. | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1933 Registered: 5-2003 |
I notice the Yeats poem is referenced in a film starring Christian Bale -- relevant? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 939 Registered: 3-2004 |
Lynne: don't bow too early, I'm not Hispanic-speaking... ;-) but I think it should be gallo or gallo joven, thought reinforced by how it's written in Italian/Portugese, pollo should be chicken... Ahhh, Nelson was "bottled"... | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2366 Registered: 1-2007 |
Re Yeats: Are the two words tread softly the relevant ones? Is walking in the air by Aled Jones relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 754 Registered: 5-2007 |
"embroidered cloths" would get my vote for two important consecutive words by Yeats, would it get your Christmas vote? not on this occasion Other possible consecutive words that might mean something... silver light --> ? tinsel? dark cloths --> ? half light --> ? Might have something to do with Christmas supposedly being the longest night of the year originally? being poor --> ? tread softly --> ? this one I like "embroidered cloths" though... oh, nothing wrong with them at all, but... Have spread - your mother always had crab paste on sandwiches for Christmas tea? most ingenious. Not in any way true, of course, but most ingenious. Back to the Netherlands: "Bakhuis"? excellent, and more than close enough. The actual word I have in mind is "Bakhuizen", and you may proceed from there. Baking day - baksel dag ? no - what was needed, and what Tommy has found, is "baking house" While it doesn't really fit with the clues, I like "peperkoek huizen"... ...I'll ask anyway if it's relevant? it is not German - junger Hahn Dutch - jonge haan Italian - galletto Portugese - galo novo Spanish - pollo Any of these? none of those. The language in question would not perhaps primarily be thought of as a "European language", but it certainly is one. Tommyp - according to Yahoo's Babelfish translator it's pollo, but I bow to your superior knowledge as I wouldn't have the foggiest. pollo is the word for chicken; gallo is the word for rooster; either is acceptable since both are equally irrelevant Nelson's life After he was killed his body was preserved in brandy. Brandy butter is a popular addition to the Christmas table. so it is, although I confess that I am rapidly going off the idea I notice the Yeats poem is referenced in a film starring Christian Bale -- relevant? no, but good thinking Are the two words tread softly the relevant ones? they are indeed Is walking in the air by Aled Jones relevant? it is not, but another piece of good thinking. This morning, the seventh door on the LTPF Advent Calendar was opened to reveal a picture of a Bible open at a passage from the Old Testament. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2368 Registered: 1-2007 |
Would synonyms of Tread or Softly help us establish the connection to Christmas. For tread - Walk? Step? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2369 Registered: 1-2007 |
is the painter Bakhuizen relevant? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1336 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is the OT passage in [LTPF list of Old Testament Books]? Is the European Language (for rooster) an Eastern European Language? Romance? Norse? Mediterranean? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4249 Registered: 12-2000 |
Tread softly is also an anagram of lofty treads which puts me in mind of St Wencelas and his trusty page, who, being weaker and who would no doubt tread more softly than his master, was told to follow in his master's footsteps. Mark my footsteps, my good page Tread thou in them boldly Thou shalt find the winter's rage Freeze thy blood less coldly | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4250 Registered: 12-2000 |
How about suckling pig? Nelson's mother's maiden name was Suckling and roast stuffed suckling pig is a traditional Christmas entree in many northern European countries. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 954 Registered: 3-2004 |
Could go on guessing for cockerel: petushok? (which leads to Rimsky-Korsakov...), kogucik? (which leads me nowhere), kohoutek? (which is a well-known comet, also a name of an album by Bill Carroll -> Christmas "Carrolls") | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4251 Registered: 12-2000 |
Just to earth it a bit more, after his mother's death her brother Captain Suckling looked after Nelson and sent him on voyages. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 755 Registered: 5-2007 |
Would synonyms of Tread or Softly help us establish the connection to Christmas. very much so, indeed For tread - Walk? Step? neither of those is the painter Bakhuizen relevant? certainly Is the OT passage in [LTPF list of Old Testament Books]? it is in the Book of Numbers Is the European Language (for rooster) an Eastern European Language? Romance? Norse? Mediterranean? none of those | ||
| Beroean (Beroean)
Moderator Username: Beroean Post Number: 1599 Registered: 10-2001 |
Sorry, I have entered late in the proceedings and may have missed a good number of things but.. Are either of these relevant: Micah? The Dead Sea? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 756 Registered: 5-2007 |
Tread softly is also an anagram of lofty treads which puts me in mind of St Wencelas and his trusty page, who, being weaker and who would no doubt tread more softly than his master, was told to follow in his master's footsteps. indeed, and a very fine piece of thinking. Not right, sadly. How about suckling pig? Nelson's mother's maiden name was Suckling and roast stuffed suckling pig is a traditional Christmas entree in many northern European countries. indeed, but the relevant fact about Nelson's life is not as obscure as either his mother's maiden name or the fact that he was preserved in brandy after death Could go on guessing for cockerel: petushok? (which leads to Rimsky-Korsakov...), kogucik? (which leads me nowhere), kohoutek? (which is a well-known comet, also a name of an album by Bill Carroll -> Christmas "Carrolls") all very fine words for cockerel and very plausible connenctions to Christmas. All wrong, as it happens, but worthy answers indeed. Just to earth it a bit more, after his mother's death her brother Captain Suckling looked after Nelson and sent him on voyages. did he, by gosh? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 757 Registered: 5-2007 |
Sorry, I have entered late in the proceedings and may have missed a good number of things have no fear - there will be a good number of other things between now and Christmas Day but.. Are either of these relevant: Micah? no The Dead Sea? and no | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1346 Registered: 7-2009 |
Numbers: Is the passage within any of the following sections? - Numbering of the people at Sinai? - Journey from Sinai to Moab? - Preparations for crossing the Jordan? Are any of the following events or things relevant? - Murmuring about hardships? - Consecration of the Levites for service to the tabernacle? - Making two silver trumpets? - sending out spies? - "flowing with milk and honey"? - having to wander in the wilderness for 40 years? - Aaron's rod? - Moses striking the rock? - Fiery serpents? - Conquest of Midian? - Prescribing feast days? - Dividing up the land among the tribes? - The promised land? - The Priestly Blessing, Numbers 6:24–26(The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace.)? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 758 Registered: 5-2007 |
Numbers: Is the passage within any of the following sections? - Numbering of the people at Sinai? - Journey from Sinai to Moab? - Preparations for crossing the Jordan? this one Are any of the following events or things relevant? - Murmuring about hardships? - Consecration of the Levites for service to the tabernacle? - Making two silver trumpets? - sending out spies? - "flowing with milk and honey"? - having to wander in the wilderness for 40 years? - Aaron's rod? - Moses striking the rock? - Fiery serpents? - Conquest of Midian? - Prescribing feast days? - Dividing up the land among the tribes? - The promised land? - The Priestly Blessing, Numbers 6:24–26(The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD turn his face toward you and give you peace.)? none of these, I'm afraid. For all that, the relevant passage of the Book of Numbers comprises almost certainly the most famous four words in that scripture... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4252 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is Balaam's donkey relevant to the puzzle? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2370 Registered: 1-2007 |
With apologies for sledgehammer approach... Synonyms of Tread - Tramp? Amble? Stamp? Stride? Pace? Footstep? Gait? March? Hike? Hoof? Pace? Track ? Trace? Traipse? Trudge? Troop? As for Bakhuizen. All I can find is that he painted a picture of Christ on the Sea of Galilee. Is this relevant? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1347 Registered: 7-2009 |
(Numbers) More famous than "flowing with milk and honey" or "The lord bless you and keep you"? Really? Or is it not the most famous verse, just the most famous four-word phrase? Is Miriam relevant? "Please, God, Heal Her"? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 759 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is Balaam's donkey relevant to the puzzle? no Synonyms of Tread - Tramp? Amble? Stamp? Stride? Pace? Footstep? Gait? March? Hike? Hoof? Pace? Track ? Trace? Traipse? Trudge? Troop? none of these, I am afraid. You are looking for far too specific a term - if I were you, I would concentrate instead on synoyms of "softly" in the context of treading or walking... As for Bakhuizen. All I can find is that he painted a picture of Christ on the Sea of Galilee. Is this relevant? no, but he painted a lot of other things as well, mostly to do with the sea... (Numbers) More famous than "flowing with milk and honey" or "The lord bless you and keep you"? Really? I should say so, although this may be a matter of opinion Or is it not the most famous verse, just the most famous four-word phrase? that is the general idea, yes Is Miriam relevant? no "Please, God, Heal Her"? not this kind of thing | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1348 Registered: 7-2009 |
tread softly = tiptoe? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1349 Registered: 7-2009 |
Also, continuing on the Numbers track... Is the verse a prophesy? A command? A prayer? A blessing? A description? An action? Does it have to do with a specific person? A specific place? A specific action? A specific tribe? Moses? Aaron? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 760 Registered: 5-2007 |
tread softly = tiptoe? no - you need a two-word phrase Is the verse a prophesy? A command? A prayer? A blessing? A description? An action? Does it have to do with a specific person? A specific place? A specific action? A specific tribe? Moses? Aaron? the verse itself is a description of a state of affairs - or rather, a description of something that is not the state of affairs - followed by a prophecy. It concerns Jacob and Israel, not Moses or Aaron. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 978 Registered: 3-2004 |
Softly = silent. relevant? Silent Night? I also know of nothing Bakhuizen has painted but seascapes, ships in storm, ships in battle... is it relevant for the puzzle what Bakhuizen painted? or etched? or his name Ludolf being almost like Rudolf the rein-deer (again)? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 979 Registered: 3-2004 |
Does the prophecy have to do about moving the people from Egypt to Canaan? does it concern Jacob's sons? one of them especially relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 761 Registered: 5-2007 |
Softly = silent. relevant? no - the amount of noise being generated by the treading is not relevant Silent Night? no I also know of nothing Bakhuizen has painted but seascapes, ships in storm, so he did, and this will come in useful ships in battle... is it relevant for the puzzle what Bakhuizen painted? precisely - what he painted more of than anything else were Dutch ships in stormy weather of various kinds or etched? or his name Ludolf being almost like Rudolf the rein-deer (again)? funny you should say that... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4253 Registered: 12-2000 |
Tread softly - walk lightly? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 762 Registered: 5-2007 |
Does the prophecy have to do about moving the people from Egypt to Canaan? no, and in truth calling it a "prophecy" is somewhat to overstate the case; more of a "prediction" does it concern Jacob's sons? no one of them especially relevant? no | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 763 Registered: 5-2007 |
Tread softly - walk lightly? not "walk", but "lightly" is quite right | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2371 Registered: 1-2007 |
Go Lightly? Holly Golightly? Is there a some Christmas holly behind this door? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 981 Registered: 3-2004 |
Ok, so Bakhuisen painted "Dutch Merchant-Ships in a Storm", "Ships in a Stormy Sea Off a Coast", "Ships in Distress off a Rocky Coast" and more - is any of these relevant? or another painting in storm? or no specific painting is relevant? maybe a lateral leap to Red Sea is relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4254 Registered: 12-2000 |
Nelson - Trafalgar or HMS Victory relevant? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2372 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are "Kismet" or "Kiss me Hardy" relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 764 Registered: 5-2007 |
Go Lightly? Holly Golightly? Is there a some Christmas holly behind this door? yes indeed there is, for exactly the reason you surmise. That accounts for door number six, and at this rate I can see a few more solutions appearing by tomorrow. Ok, so Bakhuisen painted "Dutch Merchant-Ships in a Storm", "Ships in a Stormy Sea Off a Coast", "Ships in Distress off a Rocky Coast" and more - is any of these relevant? no more so than any other or another painting in storm? no or no specific painting is relevant? that is indeed the case - what is relevant is that these are, so to speak, Dutch storms maybe a lateral leap to Red Sea is relevant? not in that direction, no Nelson - Trafalgar yes or HMS Victory no relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 765 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are "Kismet" or "Kiss me Hardy" relevant? no | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4255 Registered: 12-2000 |
Trafalgar Square - square dancing?? Much loved by your goodself. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4256 Registered: 12-2000 |
Trafalgar Square - Christmas tree from Norway each year? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 982 Registered: 3-2004 |
So, we shall take one or more steps to get from "Dutch Storm" to something related to Christmas? When we continue further: Is the country Holland relevant? by it's more correct name, Netherlands? Or maybe the word Holland points to something else? a person? Perhaps "Storm" first should point to something? a person? a book? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4257 Registered: 12-2000 |
Storm: Dutch - onweer | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 983 Registered: 3-2004 |
There has been floods in the Netherlands because of storm, there are floods called "St. Nicholas' Flood" in 1196 and "St. Lucia's flood" in 1287, as well as the "Christmas flood" in 1717. Relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4258 Registered: 12-2000 |
Book of Numbers 'the verse itself is a description of a state of affairs - or rather, a description of something that is not the state of affairs - followed by a prophecy. It concerns Jacob and Israel' There is no idol in Jacob, neither is there an image god to be seen in Israel. The Lord his God is with him, and the sound of the victory of the king in him. 22 God hath brought him out of Egypt, whose strength is like to the rhinoceros. 23 There is no soothsaying in Jacob, nor divination in Israel. In their times it shall be told to Jacob and to Israel what God hath wrought. 24 Behold the people shall rise up as a lioness, and shall lift itself up as a lion: it shall not lie down till it devour the prey, and drink the blood of the slain. 25 And Balac said to Balaam: Neither curse, nor bless him. Is the relevant verse in this section? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 766 Registered: 5-2007 |
Trafalgar Square - square dancing?? Much loved by your goodself. oh, quite so. But I am not sure what square dancing has to do with Christmas, though I very much hope that it is nothing at all. Trafalgar Square - Christmas tree from Norway each year? this, on the other hand, has a great deal to do with Christmas, and is the solution to the fourth door of the puzzle - well done. So, we shall take one or more steps to get from "Dutch Storm" to something related to Christmas? excellent idea When we continue further: Is the country Holland relevant? not so much the country... by it's more correct name, Netherlands? that does not really matter Or maybe the word Holland points to something else? so to speak, yes a person? no Perhaps "Storm" first should point to something? it should, and it does a person? a book? nothing like this, though Storm: Dutch - onweer very true, and worth exploring further... There has been floods in the Netherlands because of storm, there are floods called "St. Nicholas' Flood" in 1196 and "St. Lucia's flood" in 1287, as well as the "Christmas flood" in 1717. Relevant? no - you are not looking for floods, but for some other characteristic of storms in general and Dutch storms in particular... 21 There is no idol in Jacob, neither is there an image god to be seen in Israel. The Lord his God is with him, and the sound of the victory of the king in him. 22 God hath brought him out of Egypt, whose strength is like to the rhinoceros. 23 There is no soothsaying in Jacob, nor divination in Israel. In their times it shall be told to Jacob and to Israel what God hath wrought. 24 Behold the people shall rise up as a lioness, and shall lift itself up as a lion: it shall not lie down till it devour the prey, and drink the blood of the slain. 25 And Balac said to Balaam: Neither curse, nor bless him. Is the relevant verse in this section? well, yes and no. The section you quote is from the correct chapter of the Book of Numbers and includes the correct verse, but it does not employ exactly the translation that was used when this particular four-word phrase acquired the fame it enjoys today | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 985 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thunder and Lightning relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4259 Registered: 12-2000 |
What hath God wrought? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 767 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thunder and Lightning relevant? very much so, indeed What hath God wrought? that's the bunny. Now then... | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1354 Registered: 7-2009 |
God wrought his son? the Earth? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 986 Registered: 3-2004 |
"Strength of a unicorn" relevant? or the similar "Strength of a buffalo"? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4260 Registered: 12-2000 |
The first message sent in Morse code? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4261 Registered: 12-2000 |
Re-runs of Inspector Morse on Christmas Day TV.... Second only to The Great Escape | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 987 Registered: 3-2004 |
Weren't "Thunder and Lightning" two famous reindeers, almost as famous as Ludolf? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1945 Registered: 5-2003 |
That's Donder und Blitzen. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 991 Registered: 3-2004 |
Well - "Donder und Blitzen", while giving more associations to war than to Christmas for me, still are "Thunder and Lightning"... Thought English should be easier than German or their original names (in Dutch) "Dunder" and "Blixem". Here Rudolf is the only popular reindeer. We need door number 8 to be opened. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2373 Registered: 1-2007 |
Wow "Aedh wishes for the cloths of heaven" and Audrey Hepburn in the same puzzle. You woubits obviously appreciate the beautiful things in life. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 768 Registered: 5-2007 |
God wrought his son? the Earth? no doubt, but this part of the puzzle contains no direct reference to the actual works of the Almighty "Strength of a unicorn" relevant? or the similar "Strength of a buffalo"? neither of those The first message sent in Morse code? well, "What hath God wrought" was not actually the first message sent over Samuel Morse's invention, but this is very much on the right lines Re-runs of Inspector Morse on Christmas Day TV.... Second only to The Great Escape if you say so Weren't "Thunder and Lightning" two famous reindeers, almost as famous as Ludolf? indeed they were That's Donder und Blitzen. it is now, but it was not always so... Well - "Donder und Blitzen", while giving more associations to war than to Christmas for me, still are "Thunder and Lightning"... Thought English should be easier than German or their original names (in Dutch) "Dunder" and "Blixem". exactly and precisely so. In the original poem "A Visit from Saint Nicholas" by Clement Clarke Moore (or at least, attributed to him) the names of two of Santa's reindeer were Dunder and Blixem, the Dutch words for thunder and lightning respectively. By a process too obscure and tedious to describe, these became Donder and Blitzen in most versions of the poem printed nowadays (although Blitzen is the German word for lightning, the German word for thunder is actually Donner). At any rate, the riddle of the second door is now solved - well done everyone. We need door number 8 to be opened. Behind the eighth door is a picture of a rural landscape. A cottage nestles among wooded hills somewhere in the Lake District of northern England. It is, as usual for that part of the world, pouring with rain. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4263 Registered: 12-2000 |
OK, What hath God wrought, was the first public telegram in America, sent by Samuel Morse? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4264 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is it a painting by Edward Lear? He thought of the Lake District as a place where 'the dear little babies are born with fins – webbed feet – & umbrellas under their arms' Grasmere relevant? Wordsworth's Dove Cottage? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 603 Registered: 6-2003 |
As there a lot of text has accumulated in the meanwhile I provide a summary of the doors opened so far. I hope woubit does not mind. First door: a pair of ballet shoes ballet -> Anna Pavlova -> Pavlova cake Second door: a bakery in the shadow of a windmill windmill -> Dutch bakery -> bakhuis -> the painter Bakhuizen -> thunderstorms -> Thunder and Lightning, reindeers of obscure fame Third door: a cockerel in full voice Some other European language is relevant; not French, Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch, Russian, Czech, Slovak Fourth door: a man dressed in a white coat standing on one leg cricket umpire -> David Shepherd -> score of 111 -> Lord Adm. H. Nelson -> Trafalgar Square -> Good Norwegian wood Fifth door: Robert Fischer and Boris Spassky Chess -> pawnbroker -> St. Nicholas, their patron Sixth door: a portrait of William Butler Yeats poem "He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" -> "tread softly" -> "go lightly" Seventh door: a Bible open at a passage from the Old Testament Relevant phrase "What hath God wrought?" from the Book of Numbers Eigth door: got stuck somehow | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4265 Registered: 12-2000 |
That's useful, Sundowner, but holly is behind the sixth door as Peter suggested Holly Golightly. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 604 Registered: 6-2003 |
Pedants must note in this place that Dutch for "lightning" is "blitsem", while the German word is "Blitz". Dutch for "thunder" is "donder". For the cockerel I might still offer the Hungarian term: kakas .. but I don't see any reference to Christmas. Is the relevant language a Slavonic one? Romanic? Germanic? Greek? Yiddish? Basque? Turkish? Finnish? an alive language? As for the 7th door: wrought as in wrought iron? some item made of wrought iron relevant? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 992 Registered: 3-2004 |
Sundowner: Pedants note that the proper spelling is bliksem, not blitsem... We can try some more languages: Latin, Irish, Welsh, Kalaallisut, Inuktitut, Katalan, Moldavian, Swedish, Lithuanian, Estonian, Latvian, Manx, Frisian, Faroese, Corsican, Icelandic? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 769 Registered: 5-2007 |
OK, What hath God wrought, was the first public telegram in America, sent by Samuel Morse? indeed it was. One of those words is rather more relevant than any of the others (the words in your question, not the words in the Bible) Is it a painting by Edward Lear? He thought of the Lake District as a place where 'the dear little babies are born with fins – webbed feet – & umbrellas under their arms' Grasmere relevant? Wordsworth's Dove Cottage? the painting could be by anyone at all of any house at all As there a lot of text has accumulated in the meanwhile I provide a summary of the doors opened so far. I hope woubit does not mind. mind? I am most grateful to you indeed for your efforts. For the cockerel I might still offer the Hungarian term: kakas .. but I don't see any reference to Christmas. Is the relevant language a Slavonic one? Romanic? Germanic? Greek? Yiddish? Basque? Turkish? Finnish? an alive language? this one, and none of the others, but help is at hand... As for the 7th door: wrought as in wrought iron? no some item made of wrought iron relevant? if I were to say "yes", which would be the literal truth, it would be horribly misleading We can try some more languages: Latin, Irish, Welsh, this one - well done Kalaallisut, Inuktitut, Katalan, Moldavian, Swedish, Lithuanian, Estonian, Latvian, Manx, Frisian, Faroese, Corsican, Icelandic? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 994 Registered: 3-2004 |
OK, the Welsh word for cockerel should then be interesting? bad luck then it's not easy to find... Similar words would be cywion - relevant? Rebeca Cywion? ffowlyn? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 995 Registered: 3-2004 |
Found a site that might have given the translation... Is "cyw ceiliog" relevant, seems to be Welsh for cockerel? just ceiliog? The there is of course the obvious path cockerel -> ceiliog -> Corn Flakes -> snow flakes -> Christmas... | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 996 Registered: 3-2004 |
Day 8: is it relevant that it is the Lake District? or just Northern England? is William Wordsworth relevant? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 997 Registered: 3-2004 |
What are William Wordsworth's words worth...? He has written "Intimations of Immortality" - relevant? "Composed Upon Westminster Bridge"? "Lyrical Ballads"? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 770 Registered: 5-2007 |
OK, the Welsh word for cockerel should then be interesting? bad luck then it's not easy to find... sorry about that, but some parts of woubit Christmas puzzles have to be difficult, or they would all be over long before Christmas Similar words would be cywion - relevant? Rebeca Cywion? ffowlyn? none of these Is "cyw ceiliog" relevant, seems to be Welsh for cockerel? just ceiliog? no The there is of course the obvious path cockerel -> ceiliog -> Corn Flakes -> snow flakes -> Christmas... obvious indeed - can't think how I missed it, but I seem to have done so Day 8: is it relevant that it is the Lake District? no or just Northern England? no is William Wordsworth relevant? no He has written "Intimations of Immortality" - relevant? "Composed Upon Westminster Bridge"? "Lyrical Ballads"? Wordsworth has written much that is excellent, much that is execrable, and nothing that is relevant to this puzzle | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 998 Registered: 3-2004 |
But is the Welsh word for cockerel interesting (just that I've not found it)? or is that Welsh word of no significance at all? Perhaps the Welsh group "Rooster Teeth" is relevant? Or the song "Tom Tobin's Dickey Bird" by "Pad John Welsh", about another kind of rooster/cockerel...? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2009 |
Dylan Thomas is rather a Welsh cockerel; A Child's Christmas in Wales relevant? or am I just being lazy? snowballing cats relevant? snowballs? postmen delivering presents? "...tingled down the tea-tray slithered run of the chilly, glinting hill..." -- that stuff's like crack, to me. caroling at dark houses? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 771 Registered: 5-2007 |
But is the Welsh word for cockerel interesting not as such - you may come at the answer from another direction just as easily (just that I've not found it)? or is that Welsh word of no significance at all? it is of some significance, yes, but it is possible to solve the puzzle without looking up the Welsh word for "cockerel" Perhaps the Welsh group "Rooster Teeth" is relevant? perhaps it is, but not to this puzzle Or the song "Tom Tobin's Dickey Bird" by "Pad John Welsh", about another kind of rooster/cockerel...? fascinating stuff, but alas... Dylan Thomas is rather a Welsh cockerel; Dylan Thomas has not been anything very much these past fifty years and more, which is perhaps as well for you, since if he heard that description... A Child's Christmas in Wales relevant? no or am I just being lazy? no - fairly industrious, I would say, given that... snowballing cats relevant? no snowballs? no postmen delivering presents? no "...tingled down the tea-tray slithered run of the chilly, glinting hill..." -- that stuff's like crack, to me. caroling at dark houses? ...but this is very, very much in the right forest | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1000 Registered: 3-2004 |
So is "A Child's Christmas In Wales" by Dylan Thomas relevant? or is not Dylan Thomas relevant at all? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 772 Registered: 5-2007 |
So is "A Child's Christmas In Wales" by Dylan Thomas relevant? or is not Dylan Thomas relevant at all? Dylan Thomas is of no particular relevance, but "caroling at dark houses" is more or less the entirety of the solution (well, less rather than more, perhaps) | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4269 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is it relevant that the painting is in the Lake District and that it's raining? Could it be elsewhere? Could it be another building other than a cottage? Could the weather be sunny? was the first public telegram in America, sent by Samuel Morse. I'll hazard a guess that Samuel or Morse or America or public or telegram or perhaps first is the most relevant word. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2376 Registered: 1-2007 |
The word mistle means to rain lightly or drizzle. Could this be the the sort of rain in question in the Lake District? I am struggling to get a toe in though (if you'll pardon the pun). | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 773 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is it relevant that the painting is in the Lake District no and that it's raining? yes Could it be elsewhere? yes, but a certain geographical constaint exists - it could not be anywhere on Earth Could it be another building other than a cottage? yes, or no building at all Could the weather be sunny? no - good question I'll hazard a guess that Samuel or Morse or America or public or telegram this one is very close, but is not the exact word you require or perhaps first is the most relevant word. The word mistle means to rain lightly or drizzle. Could this be the the sort of rain in question in the Lake District? not in my experience - "deluge" is usually closer to the mark I am struggling to get a toe in though (if you'll pardon the pun). by all means - after all, what is the point of having the privilege of free speech if one does not abuse it? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1002 Registered: 3-2004 |
Northern England - isn't it there where it's reining deers...? Geographical constraint - does it have to be a "cool rain"? it can't be in a very warm country? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1003 Registered: 3-2004 |
The Lake District painting - are nearby mountains needed? water? lakes? green growth? Cockerel: any relevance to "The Nightmare Before Christmas"? any castle relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 774 Registered: 5-2007 |
Geographical constraint - does it have to be a "cool rain"? no - any kind of rain will do it can't be in a very warm country? it could The Lake District painting - are nearby mountains needed? yes, for ssv of "mountains" water? yes lakes? no green growth? no Cockerel: any relevance to "The Nightmare Before Christmas"? no any castle relevant? no | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4270 Registered: 12-2000 |
Telegraph rather than telegram? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 775 Registered: 5-2007 |
Telegraph rather than telegram? quite so, indeed. Now then... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4275 Registered: 12-2000 |
Messages? Glad tidings? News? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 777 Registered: 5-2007 |
Messages? not really Glad tidings? very occasionally News? most of the time | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4276 Registered: 12-2000 |
Daily Telegraph newspaper? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1013 Registered: 3-2004 |
Painting: Would "hill" be a better word than "mountain? Is the word hill relevant? or "heights"? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 778 Registered: 5-2007 |
Daily Telegraph newspaper? yes, indeed Painting: Would "hill" be a better word than "mountain? it would indeed - in fact, "mountain" would be useless Is the word hill relevant? yope or "heights"? no | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4281 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is the Daily Telegraph itself relevant? A particular Christmas tradtion that they have? Like Christmas puzzles? Or would any newspaper do? Yope to the word hill. Is hill a part of the word we need to look for? If so is it at the beginning, middle or end of the word? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2377 Registered: 1-2007 |
I've just learned something very Christmasy about the Telegraph. It's founder was a Colonel Sleigh. I feel a tiny bit guilty as Lynne did most of the work on this one. I'll try and set one up for her tomorrow. For hill would Tor be a better word or something similar? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4289 Registered: 12-2000 |
Peter - I LOVE the teamwork on something like this. I follow through other people's ideas all the time, and so do others. Worry not. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 605 Registered: 6-2003 |
Here the usual summary. Second door: a bakery in the shadow of a windmill windmill -> Dutch bakery -> bakhuis -> the painter Bakhuizen -> thunderstorms -> Donner and Blitzen, infamous reindeer Third door: a cockerel in full voice It's a Welsh cockerel, although, the Welsh word for cockerel is not relevant as such. From some point of view, the solution is "caroling at dark houses". Sixth door: a portrait of William Butler Yeats poem "He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" -> "tread softly" -> "go lightly" -> Holly Golightly -> a wreath of holly Seventh door: a Bible open at a passage from the Old Testament "What hath God wrought?" from the Book of Numbers -> first telegram -> Daily Telegraph Eighth door: A picture of a rural landscape somewhere between Cockermouth and Buttermere. Cottages among wooded hills. Rain pouring. Identified as relevant so far: hills, rain Ninth door: not yet revealed to the public | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4292 Registered: 12-2000 |
Lake District - is the word fells relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4296 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ingle - a fire; which is likely to be burning if it's raining in the fells. Ingle Fells - Jingle Bells | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2379 Registered: 1-2007 |
Wow Lynne I hope that's right as it's pure genius. I wonder do woubits ever think "To hell with it, that's much better than mine" and follow it by typing "Exactly and precisely so........... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4297 Registered: 12-2000 |
Peter - LOL. Regarding teamwork, I wouldn't have thought of fells without your prompt of tor. Which puts me in mind of even more weightless (or is it worthless?) poetry. In days of yore The god of war Went for a ride on his filly 'I'm Thor!' he cried The horse replied 'You've forgotten your thaddle, thilly' | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 779 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the Daily Telegraph itself relevant? very much so A particular Christmas tradtion that they have? nothing like this Like Christmas puzzles? Or would any newspaper do? it would not Yope to the word hill. Is hill a part of the word we need to look for? yes If so is it at the beginning, this one middle or end of the word? I've just learned something very Christmasy about the Telegraph. Its founder was a Colonel Sleigh. indeed it was - well done For hill would Tor be a better word or something similar? no - see above Here the usual summary. thank you very much, Jens Lake District - is the word fells relevant? no, and neither is the Lake District Ingle - a fire; which is likely to be burning if it's raining in the fells. Ingle Fells - Jingle Bells brilliant. Wrong, but brilliant. I wonder do woubits ever think "To hell with it, that's much better than mine" and follow it by typing "Exactly and precisely so........... they don't, but one of these years I will simply set a Christmas puzzle to which I have not thought of any answers. It would work much better than the actual ones. Ninth door: not yet revealed to the public. Behind the ninth door is a picture of two small boys. They appear to be twins. They also appear to be in a rather wretched condition. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2380 Registered: 1-2007 |
Did the two little boys have two little toys? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4299 Registered: 12-2000 |
So is it indeed a sleigh behind the seventh door? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1019 Registered: 3-2004 |
Two boys: book relevant? poem? picture? song? Mrs. Micawber in David Copperfield and her twins relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4300 Registered: 12-2000 |
Hillside, Hillbilly, hillwalking, hilltop, hillcrest, hilly, Hillary, Sir Edmund Hillary. Any of these relevant? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2381 Registered: 1-2007 |
To those I can add Hillock? Hillman (makers of the Hillman Hunter)? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 780 Registered: 5-2007 |
Did the two little boys have two little toys? not that is recorded, no So is it indeed a sleigh behind the seventh door? it is indeed, and this is all that needs to be discovered Two boys: book relevant? poem? picture? song? none of the above Mrs. Micawber in David Copperfield and her twins relevant? no Hillside, Hillbilly, hillwalking, hilltop, hillcrest, hilly, Hillary, Sir Edmund Hillary. Any of these relevant? To those I can add Hillock? Hillman (makers of the Hillman Hunter)? a most impressive list. However, there is a rather simpler word that begins with the letters "hill", chiefly because it contains only one more letter... | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2382 Registered: 1-2007 |
Well I guess it has to be Hills then? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2383 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are the two boys well known? Fictional? Are they in fact twins? Romulus & Remus perhaps? The Krays? It's not Jedward i hope ;O)? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 781 Registered: 5-2007 |
Well I guess it has to be Hills then? you guess correctly - "hills" and not "hill" is the word you will need Are the two boys well known? for ssv of "well", yes Fictional? probably Are they in fact twins? for the sake of the puzzle, yes Romulus & Remus perhaps? no The Krays? no It's not Jedward i hope ;O)? what is Jedward? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2384 Registered: 1-2007 |
what is Jedward? Not an X-Factor fan I take it. Do these boys appear in a portrait? mentioned in a book? a film? Are they the stuff of myth or legend? Re their wretched state do they look emaciated? diseased? upset? Have the the appearance of street urchins? Are they wearing or holding anything relevant? Is there a relevant background in the picture? Are they less or more than 5 years old? relevant? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1362 Registered: 7-2009 |
The water needed in the painting with the hills: just the deluge of rain? Or an actual water body? A river? A pond? A ditch? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 782 Registered: 5-2007 |
Do these boys appear in a portrait? more than one, I should think mentioned in a book? again, more than one a film? Are they the stuff of myth or legend? yes Re their wretched state do they look emaciated? a little diseased? no upset? yes Have the the appearance of street urchins? no, not really Are they wearing or holding anything relevant? no Is there a relevant background in the picture? well, there are other people in the picture, one of whom is of some importance Are they less or more than 5 years old? about twelve or so relevant? vaguely The water needed in the painting with the hills: just the deluge of rain? yes Or an actual water body? A river? A pond? A ditch? none of these - what is required is that water pervades every aspect of the hills | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1365 Registered: 7-2009 |
In other words, is what's relevant that the hills are "wet"? "soaked"? "drenched"? "steeped"? "soggy"? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 783 Registered: 5-2007 |
In other words, is what's relevant that the hills are "wet"? this one "soaked"? "drenched"? "steeped"? "soggy"? and none of the others - what you are dealing with here is wet hills | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1366 Registered: 7-2009 |
wet hills = anagram for "the swill" --> stuff used to feed pigs. Christmas ham relevant? Any other pork product? Pigs? Leftovers after a big meal? The band "my name" has an album called "Wet Hills and Big Bheels". Is "My name" relevant? Woubit? Might this door be the woubit Christmas puzzle itself? Or is your real name relevant to this puzzle? =) | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 784 Registered: 5-2007 |
wet hills = anagram for "the swill" no, but... --> stuff used to feed pigs. Christmas ham relevant? Any other pork product? Pigs? Leftovers after a big meal? no, but good thinking nonetheless The band "my name" has an album called "Wet Hills and Big Bheels". Is "My name" relevant? no Woubit? Might this door be the woubit Christmas puzzle itself? Or is your real name relevant to this puzzle? =) this puzzle doesn't have anything to do with any of my names | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1369 Registered: 7-2009 |
Wet hills is also an anagram for "well s***", but I don't think that has anything to do with Christmas... =) Other anagrams (removing the ones that are complete nonsense, but leaving a bit that seem to be somewhat nonsense, just in case =) ) He Twills -- a bird? a musician? Hells Wit Welsh Lit -- is there a particular well known poem or novel that is relevant? The Wills Whet Sill Sell With Swell Hit Tell Wish -- A christmas wish list? sitting on Santa's lap? Well This Slew Hilt West Hill | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 785 Registered: 5-2007 |
Other anagrams (removing the ones that are complete nonsense, but leaving a bit that seem to be somewhat nonsense, just in case =) ) He Twills -- a bird? a musician? Hells Wit Welsh Lit -- is there a particular well known poem or novel that is relevant? The Wills this one Whet Sill Sell With Swell Hit Tell Wish -- A christmas wish list? sitting on Santa's lap? Well This Slew Hilt West Hill | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4301 Registered: 12-2000 |
Are the two boys the Princes in the Tower? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1371 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hmm, "The Wills" was one of the "almost nonsense" ones I left on just in case. Good thing =) I see that there is a singing quartet family known as "The Wills"...is that what you have in mind? They are Gospel singers. They had "the first full color Gospel TV show syndicated in the world." One of them has the delightful name of Eva Rene. Gospel means "good news" which refers to Jesus. Any of these relevant at all? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4302 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is there a Bible behind the door? The Wills are Testaments and could refer to the Old and New Testaments. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 786 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are the two boys the Princes in the Tower? no I see that there is a singing quartet family known as "The Wills"...is that what you have in mind? never heard of them, but they sound an entertaining bunch They are Gospel singers. They had "the first full color Gospel TV show syndicated in the world." One of them has the delightful name of Eva Rene. Gospel means "good news" which refers to Jesus. Any of these relevant at all? I fear not | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 787 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is there a Bible behind the door? The Wills are Testaments and could refer to the Old and New Testaments. there is not, but a fine piece of thinking | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4303 Registered: 12-2000 |
Does 'the wills' refer to one entity or more? Does it refer to something/s animal, vegetable or mineral? Does it refer to something that we may reasonably have in our home? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 789 Registered: 5-2007 |
Does 'the wills' refer to one entity or more? this one Does it refer to something/s animal, this one is closest, although... vegetable or mineral? Does it refer to something that we may reasonably have in our home? that is a particularly deep question to which for the moment I will answer "yes" | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4304 Registered: 12-2000 |
So more than one animal - human animals? People in general? People in particular? In our home because we are people too? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 790 Registered: 5-2007 |
So more than one animal - human animals? indeed People in general? possibly, but... People in particular? ...a specific (large) group of people is directly involved In our home because we are people too? indeed, but you may be following a false trail here | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 360 Registered: 9-2008 |
Do the twins represent good and evil? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 791 Registered: 5-2007 |
Do the twins represent good and evil? no, and hello again Kaygee - good to see you back Puzzles on the 2009 LTPF Advent Calendar consist of a picture that, by a process of reasoning too obscure and painful to be described here, in fact connotes a different picture that is directly related to Christmas. For example:
Puzzles remaining to be solved this morning are: Third door: a cockerel in full voice. It's a Welsh cockerel, although the Welsh word for cockerel is not relevant as such. From some point of view, the solution is "caroling at dark houses". (thanks to Sundowner for this admirable summary). Eighth door: a landscape with hills in the rain. These "wet hills" are no more than an anagram of the phrase "the wills", which relate to a large but specific group of human beings. Ninth door: a pair of young boys, twins or at any rate alike in appearance, in a wretched state. They are accompanied by a man of whom nothing is known as yet. Behind the tenth door is a picture of an old metal box. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1022 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is there a keyhole visible on the box? a handle? anything else visible on the box? Is it possible to decide if the box is large or small, if so - size? Pandora's box relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4305 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is there more to be found out then about the cockerel? Or is there a picture of carol singers? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2385 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are The Wills simply a group of people that are all called william? Kings perhaps? Are makers of wills relevant? testators? Or perhaps are they the wills as opposed to the wonts? Do we need to establish if the box contains anything and what that might be? Is it a treasure chest? Is it centuries old? Is the type of metal relevant? Gold? Silver? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 792 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is there a keyhole visible on the box? a handle? anything else visible on the box? the box appears to be opened simply by lifting the lid, which is hinged - there are no locks or handles Is it possible to decide if the box is large or small, if so - size? about 5cm by 4cm Pandora's box relevant? no, but an interesting notion Is there more to be found out then about the cockerel? Or is there a picture of carol singers? well, perhaps you have done enough. A Christmas tradition in Wales is the Plygain, the practice of singing carols (either at home or in church) from around 3 am on Christmas morning until breakfast time. The word "plygain" originally meant "cockcrow", but is now more generally used to refer to the dawn or to the service of Matins. Behind the third door, then, is "really" a picture of carol singers wishing a Merry Christmas to you and your king (or not, as the case may be). | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 793 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are The Wills simply a group of people that are all called william? no, but a most ingenious piece of thinking Kings perhaps? no Are makers of wills relevant? testators? neither of these Or perhaps are they the wills as opposed to the wonts? well, this is closer, but you are being rather too obscure about this. Not your fault, I know... Do we need to establish if the box contains anything and what that might be? that would perhaps assist Is it a treasure chest? no Is it centuries old? a hundred years or so Is the type of metal relevant? not particularly, since it could be any of... Gold? this... Silver? ..or this, or copper with gold or silver plate, or... | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1023 Registered: 3-2004 |
Perhaps a box for a medal? for a ring? for a watch? a bracelet? for something else valuable? "The Wills" - simply (some) people with Wills as last name? any company relevant? any specific place relevant, like "Wills Point"? we should write the word "Wills" - not "Will's"? or "Wills'"? is the s in "Wills" a plural "s"? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 794 Registered: 5-2007 |
Perhaps a box for a medal? for a ring? for a watch? a bracelet? for something else valuable? certainly that sort of size, but the contents of this box (and others like it) were not in any way as valuable as rings or watches or bracelets "The Wills" - simply (some) people with Wills as last name? any company relevant? any specific place relevant, like "Wills Point"? we should write the word "Wills" - not "Will's"? or "Wills'"? is the s in "Wills" a plural "s"? nothing like this - no names are involved, nor is the letter "w" capitalized in the phrase "the wills", which is to be read literally and placed in context. I am sure that Lynne will be able to do this... | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1025 Registered: 3-2004 |
"the wills" : Shakespeare "The Tempest" relevant? relevant meaning - "against the wills of people"? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2386 Registered: 1-2007 |
Would a synonym for will work? If i wrote the urges, the desires, the intentions would it still make sense? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 795 Registered: 5-2007 |
"the wills" : Shakespeare "The Tempest" relevant? no, but not a bad shot relevant meaning - "against the wills of people"? exactly so - "the wills of ... people" is precisely what is required Would a synonym for will work? no, but... If i wrote the urges, the desires, the intentions would it still make sense? ...that is indeed the meaning of "wills" here intended | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4306 Registered: 12-2000 |
Are the wills the wishlists of children for Santa? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4307 Registered: 12-2000 |
The wills - perhaps the stockings to be filled with the wishes of the children? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 796 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are the wills the wishlists of children for Santa? they are not - again, the phrase "the wills of ... people" is to be read literally, and the blank filled in, recalling perhaps what has been done to "wet hills" to produce "the wills"... The wills - perhaps the stockings to be filled with the wishes of the children? not this - see above | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1026 Registered: 3-2004 |
(Unite) the wills of all people? "the wills of other people"? "the wills of younger people"? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 797 Registered: 5-2007 |
(Unite) the wills of all people? no "the wills of other people"? no "the wills of younger people"? and no, but I am as sure as I can be that help will shortly be at hand, once Lynne collects her thoughts... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4308 Registered: 12-2000 |
I went to the collection point for thoughts but it was half day closing. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4309 Registered: 12-2000 |
The wills of dead/dying people? Where there's a will there's a relative. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 606 Registered: 6-2003 |
The wills of mixed people? though, I do not see any link to Christmas 9th door: Is the man the father of the boys? another relative? a teacher? is he standing in front of the boys? behind them? Are the boys famous? (as individuals? as members of a larger group?) Is the man famous? Relevant that the boys are two? In the pictures, books, films where the boys appear: are they always two? always twins? 10th door: Is the box empty? is it sort of a case? for: cigarettes? matches? business cards? money? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4310 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is it simply 'The wills of the people'? The will of the people seems very American, but in either the singular or plural, I can't think of a connection to Christmas. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 798 Registered: 5-2007 |
The wills of dead/dying people? no - the phrase in question is a quotation, not merely some adjective inserted into the phrase "the wills of the people" The wills of mixed people? no 9th door: Is the man the father of the boys? no another relative? no a teacher? no is he standing in front of the boys? behind them? beside them, but this does not matter very much Are the boys famous? not as such, but the tableau of which they are part has achieved some fame (as individuals? as members of a larger group?) Is the man famous? yes Relevant that the boys are two? yes In the pictures, books, films where the boys appear: are they always two? usually always twins? almost never - they have become twins only for the purposes of the puzzle 10th door: Is the box empty? it is closed, so one cannot tell, but... is it sort of a case? ...it is certainly one of these; moreover... for: cigarettes? matches? ...it is used to hold these - well done business cards? money? s it simply 'The wills of the people'? no - it is "the wills of _ _ people" where each _ is a word, neither of which is "the" | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1372 Registered: 7-2009 |
The wills of...people: millions of? those very? primarily wealthy? thy faithful? --> aha! from an Anglican prayer recited on "Stir up Sunday" which is the traditional day for making Christmas puddings. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1028 Registered: 3-2004 |
"the wills of thy faithful people"? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4311 Registered: 12-2000 |
Thank goodness for that! I have heard it in use once or twice, and indeed I heard it this year, but I tend to be more familiar with modern language. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 799 Registered: 5-2007 |
The wills of...people: millions of? those very? primarily wealthy? thy faithful? --> aha! from an Anglican prayer recited on "Stir up Sunday" which is the traditional day for making Christmas puddings. well done indeed, O aptly-named one The first Sunday before Advent is, as Noel says, a day on which Christmas puddings are traditionally made. In the Book of Common Prayer, the collect for that Sunday reads: Stir up, we beseech thee, O Lord, the wills of thy faithful people; that they, plenteously bringing forth the fruit of good works, may of thee be plenteously rewarded; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. The "wet hills" of the picture were anagrammed, or stirred up, to give the phrase "the wills" as an indication that behind the eighth door is "really" a picture of a bowl whose contents are themselves being vigorously mixed to produce figgy pudding. "the wills of thy faithful people"? rock on, Tommy | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1374 Registered: 7-2009 |
Are there matches in the match box? Or is it empty? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4312 Registered: 12-2000 |
So the box that used to hold matches - is the clue in the word matchbox? Or the picture on the front? Swan Vesta. Swans a Swimming. Cooks matches - the cook is rather useful for preparing Christmas dinner. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1029 Registered: 3-2004 |
I seem to have been a tad late... ;-) The boys: According to your answers, no book, poem, picture or song is relevant. Yet they appear in more than one portrait and the same goes for books. Does that mean that no particular picture or book is relevant because the books/pictures are not about them? they are merely there for illustration? the boys are not two specific boys, more "two boys"? are they two human boys? standing beside each other? holding anything relevant in their hands? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4313 Registered: 12-2000 |
I read 'used to hold matches' and not 'it is used to hold matches' - my eyes are dim, I cannot see | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1030 Registered: 3-2004 |
Light a match... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4314 Registered: 12-2000 |
Oh, Woubit - collects her thoughts. Duh, just got it! | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 607 Registered: 6-2003 |
10th door: matchbox cars relevant? or maybe, match case .. are there some words where upper and lower case letters must match? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 800 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are there matches in the match box? Or is it empty? it is closed, so I do not know, but it does not matter So the box that used to hold matches - is the clue in the word matchbox? no Or the picture on the front? no Swan no Vesta. yes, indeed - Vesta is the name given to this kind of antique match-holder Swans a Swimming. no - that was some other puzzle Cooks matches - the cook is rather useful for preparing Christmas dinner. indeed, but useless in this puzzle, I fear. Not to worry, for you have found what you need to progress. he boys: According to your answers, no book, poem, picture or song is relevant. well, no one more so than any other Yet they appear in more than one portrait and the same goes for books. Does that mean that no particular picture or book is relevant because the books/pictures are not about them? there is no book that is exclusively "about them" they are merely there for illustration? no the boys are not two specific boys, more "two boys"? I am not sure I understand this. They do not have names; they are not characters in some piece of fiction; they are two boys in a particular situation. are they two human boys? yes standing beside each other? yes holding anything relevant in their hands? no, but... 10th door: matchbox cars relevant? or maybe, match case .. are there some words where upper and lower case letters must match? very clever - too clever for this puzzle, though, where the only relevant aspect of the matchbox is its name, Vesta | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4315 Registered: 12-2000 |
Vesta - goddess of the hearth. Her presence was symbolised by a fire burning. Is there a fireplace behind the door? Santa's route into the house. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 801 Registered: 5-2007 |
Vesta - goddess of the hearth. Her presence was symbolised by a fire burning. indeed, but... Is there a fireplace behind the door? no Santa's route into the house. nice idea, though | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 608 Registered: 6-2003 |
9th door: Relevant that the twins are boys? could it also be two girls? or a girl and a boy? relevant how the boys are dressed? are they naked, by any chance? like a cupidon? 10th door: Virgines vestalis relevant? or, maybe, some other holy virgin? or the company Virgin? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 802 Registered: 5-2007 |
9th door: Relevant that the twins are boys? not really, but easier to assume so could it also be two girls? yes or a girl and a boy? yes, but this would be a little more complex relevant how the boys are dressed? yes are they naked, by any chance? no like a cupidon? 10th door: Virgines vestalis relevant? or, maybe, some other holy virgin? or the company Virgin? nothing to do with virgins, vestal or otherwise I fear... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4316 Registered: 12-2000 |
Stave is an anagram of vesta. Could this refer to a sheet of Christmas music Norwegian stave church A stick | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1033 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is the goddess Vesta irrelevant to the puzzle? Is the asteroid Vesta irrelevant as well? Nothing to do with talismans? since no Vestals then not with Forum Romanum either? Steva is also an anagram of Vesta, some people have the name Steva but I don't know if there's anyone relevant for this puzzle? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 803 Registered: 5-2007 |
Stave is an anagram of vesta. true Could this refer to a sheet of Christmas music Norwegian stave music A stick it could refer to any of the above, I guess. It just doesn't. Is the goddess Vesta irrelevant to the puzzle? yes Is the asteroid Vesta irrelevant as well? yes Nothing to do with talismans? nothing at all since no Vestals then not with Forum Romanum either? indeed not Steva is also an anagram of Vesta, some people have the name Steva but I don't know if there's anyone relevant for this puzzle? there is not. There are no anagrams involved in this part of the puzzle. | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4317 Registered: 12-2000 |
SUMMARY First door: a pair of ballet shoes ballet -> Anna Pavlova -> Pavlova > traditional dessert for Christmas dinner Second door: a bakery in the shadow of a windmill windmill -> Dutch bakery -> bakhuis -> the painter Bakhuizen -> thunderstorms -> Thunder and Lightning, reindeers Third door: a cockerel in full voice It's a Welsh cockerel, although, the Welsh word for cockerel is not relevant as such. From some point of view, the solution is "caroling at dark houses". > Carol singers Fourth door: a man dressed in a white coat standing on one leg cricket umpire -> David Shepherd -> score of 111 -> Lord Adm. H. Nelson -> Trafalgar Square -> Good Norwegian wood, Christmas tree Fifth door: Robert Fischer and Boris Spassky Chess -> pawnbroker -> St. Nicholas, their patron > aka Santa Claus Sixth door: a portrait of William Butler Yeats poem "He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" -> "tread softly" -> "go lightly" -> Holly Golightly -> a wreath of holly Seventh door: a picture of a Bible; this proved to be open at a passage from the Book of Numbers containing the words "What hath God wrought" > this was a message sent by Samuel Morse during one of the earliest demonstrations of his invention, the telegraph > the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper was founded by Colonel Sleigh.> sleigh Eighth door: a landscape with hills in the rain. These "wet hills" are no more than an anagram of the phrase "the wills" >"the wills of thy faithful people" > from an Anglican prayer recited on "Stir up Sunday" which is the traditional day for making Christmas puddings > Christmas (or figgy) pudding Ninth door: a pair of young boys, twins or at any rate alike in appearance, in a wretched state. They are accompanied by a man of whom nothing is known as yet. Tenth door: a picture of an old metal box > match box > Vesta (from Swan Vesta matches) is the relevant word | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 609 Registered: 6-2003 |
9th door: are the boys dressed alike? are they always depicted together with this man? are they doing something specific that would help to identify them? carry something? play some game? are they comics characters? Are they upset by the man's presence? Is the man famous? a real person? if so: did he live in the 17? 18? 19? 20? century? is he still alive? Is he Santa Claus? 10th door: not sure how to proceed here .. would it make sense to investigate other meanings of Vesta? Vesta sewing machines? the town of Vesta? Vesta Williams? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4318 Registered: 12-2000 |
Vesta Nymphalidae (Brush-footed butterflies) Subfamily Melitaeinae (Checkerspots) Vesta Cresent - Phycoides vesta. Relevant? | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 806 Registered: 1-2001 |
Tom Canty, Prince Edward & Miles Hendon?? Kings? Unlikely, I fear, since they wouldn't both be wretched at the same time but just dipping in a toe in the water.... | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 804 Registered: 5-2007 |
9th door: are the boys dressed alike? not identically, but similarly are they always depicted together with this man? yes, though he is not always depicted with them are they doing something specific that would help to identify them? no carry something? no play some game? no are they comics characters? very far from it - they are somewhat tragic characters Are they upset by the man's presence? not in the least Is the man famous? in certain circles, yes a real person? yes if so: did he live in the 17? 18? 19? 20? century? none of those, but to save you further trouble, he lived in the 6th century AD is he still alive? and therefore no Is he Santa Claus? no 10th door: not sure how to proceed here .. would it make sense to investigate other meanings of Vesta? no. Instead, it would make sense to consider that although the generic name for this kind of ornate match holder is Vesta, what you have here is a particular example of its kind Vesta sewing machines? the town of Vesta? Vesta Williams? nothing like this - as I say, it does not matter what "vesta" means in this context, but... Vesta Nymphalidae (Brush-footed butterflies) Subfamily Melitaeinae (Checkerspots) Vesta Cresent - Phycoides vesta. Relevant? no - see above Tom Canty, Prince Edward & Miles Hendon?? Kings? Unlikely, I fear, since they wouldn't both be wretched at the same time but just dipping in a toe in the water.... hello Sunshine - good to see you again. Not the right answer this time, as it happens, but be of good cheer... Behind the eleventh door, by the way, is a picture of a pair of doors. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1035 Registered: 3-2004 |
Are the doors wooden? seemingly heavy? painted in any colour? shut closed or ajar? any sign on them? anything else to identify them? knobs? handles? "old-style" or newer? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1036 Registered: 3-2004 |
two boys: is the man a farmer? does he have anything in his hand? is he a president? upper class? Vesta box: a particular example, a specific specimen? owned by a well-known person? Prince Albert? | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 807 Registered: 1-2001 |
Tom Canty, Prince Edward & Miles Hendon?? Kings? Unlikely, I fear, since they wouldn't both be wretched at the same time but just dipping in a toe in the water.... | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 808 Registered: 1-2001 |
Oops, sorry - out of practice! | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 805 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are the doors wooden? yes seemingly heavy? no painted in any colour? dark brown, as it happens shut closed or ajar? they are at the moment closed any sign on them? no, but above them is a sign that says "Entrance" anything else to identify them? no knobs? no handles? no "old-style" or newer? hard to tell, really - the kind of door that they are has been around for a century and a half at least two boys: is the man a farmer? no does he have anything in his hand? he has a crozier in his hand is he a president? no upper class? yes Vesta box: a particular example, a specific specimen? yes, but... owned by a well-known person? Prince Albert? ...not in this sense | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 806 Registered: 5-2007 |
Oops, sorry - out of practice! not to worry - it will all come flooding back | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4319 Registered: 12-2000 |
The man with a crozier. Is he a Bishop? Pope? Please may I invoke the LTPF list of European countries from which he might have come? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1037 Registered: 3-2004 |
A "Go-to-bed matchbox"? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 610 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is the man Gregory of Tours? Gregorian chants relevant? a particular chant? Is the term "Vesta case" as such relevant? "go to bed" matchboxes? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1038 Registered: 3-2004 |
Are the two boys so-called "salt bearers"? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2389 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are they louvre doors ? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2390 Registered: 1-2007 |
Sorry posted before i'd finished. Are they louvre doors? Louvre Art Museum? Madonna & Child? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1039 Registered: 3-2004 |
Two boys: Are "Maurus and Placidus" relevant? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1379 Registered: 7-2009 |
Are the two boys dress as altar boys? as orphans? as clergy in training? in school uniforms? in pajamas? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 807 Registered: 5-2007 |
The man with a crozier. Is he a Bishop? Pope? this one - Pope Gregory the Great, in fact Please may I invoke the LTPF list of European countries from which he might have come? he was, as so many Popes were, Italian A "Go-to-bed matchbox"? no, just a Vesta... Is the man Gregory of Tours? no - see above Gregorian chants relevant? no a particular chant? Is the term "Vesta case" as such relevant? no "go to bed" matchboxes? the term "vesta" as such is not actually relevant at all Are the two boys so-called "salt bearers"? no, but good thinking Are they louvre doors? no Louvre Art Museum? Madonna & Child? not this, but more good thinking Two boys: Are "Maurus and Placidus" relevant? no Are the two boys dress as altar boys? as orphans? as clergy in training? in school uniforms? in pajamas? none of these, I'm afraid | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1040 Registered: 3-2004 |
Are the boys English slave boys? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2391 Registered: 1-2007 |
"Non Angli sed Angeli" . Is there an angel behind this door? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1041 Registered: 3-2004 |
the doors: is it possible to see more about the doors, for instance if it's an entrance from a hall to a room? or from the outside in to a house? Are there any stairs leading up to the doors? not possible to see? Anything visible beside the doors? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4320 Registered: 12-2000 |
Legend has it that Pope Gregory the Great decreed that Alleluia should be sung in the boys' land. From this can we get the Alleluia Chorus from Handel's Messiah? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1380 Registered: 7-2009 |
Are the doors swinging doors? like you would see in a saloon? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 808 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are the boys English slave boys? they are indeed, moreover... "Non Angli sed Angeli" . ...this is very relevant, but... Is there an angel behind this door? ...this is not the doors: is it possible to see more about the doors, for instance if it's an entrance from a hall to a room? or from the outside yes in to a house? no Are there any stairs leading up to the doors? no not possible to see? Anything visible beside the doors? no - the interior of the building is not visible Legend has it that Pope Gregory the Great decreed that Alleluia should be sung in the boys' land. From this can we get the Alleluia Chorus from Handel's Messiah? no, but see above Are the doors swinging doors? they are indeed, and... like you would see in a saloon? ...not a saloon in this case, but... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4324 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is Pope Gregory the Great still relevant or just "Non Angli sed Angeli"? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1381 Registered: 7-2009 |
The swinging doors go from the outside? Into a... Hospital or doctor's office? Post office? Soup kitchen or similar? Restaurant? Bar? Church? Store? Office? Government building? Salon? Are they doors that fill the door frame (since you can't see inside)? Or are they the ones that are only as large as knee-height to head-height on a typical person? Is there any other decoration on them or near them besides the entrance sign? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1382 Registered: 7-2009 |
Not angles but angels... Are "angles" relevant? A triangle? Perhaps an isosceles triangle (given that the two boys are nearly identical)? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 809 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is Pope Gregory the Great still relevant or just "Non Angli sed Angeli"? the latter, but help has arrived in force - see below The swinging doors go from the outside? Into a... Hospital or doctor's office? Post office? Soup kitchen or similar? Restaurant? this one, or a cafe - they are cafe doors, after all Bar? Church? Store? Office? Government building? Salon? Are they doors that fill the door frame (since you can't see inside)? Or are they the ones that are only as large as knee-height to head-height on a typical person? this one Not angles but angels... Are "angles" relevant? A triangle? Perhaps an isosceles triangle (given that the two boys are nearly identical)? exactly and precisely so - very well done indeed | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1383 Registered: 7-2009 |
You missed: Is there any other decoration on them or near them (the doors) besides the entrance sign? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4325 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is the triangle the clue to follow through? Their spiritual significance? Their use in astonomy? The use in navigation? | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 809 Registered: 1-2001 |
A Christmas tree is sometimes represented by a triangle? Or an instrument played by an angel - but, no, angel has already been ruled out... Is turkey on the cafe menu? If not, is it the fare that is relevant? Drink? Workers? Furniture? Some other aspect of eating places? Is a vest relevant? (not to be personal...) A metal one? Armour? Underwear? > stocking? | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 362 Registered: 9-2008 |
Instead of an isosceles triangle, could it be "Good King Wenceslas"? (And woubit will be pleased to learn that this American gal just discovered that there are lovely lyrics to a melody she has known for years.) | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 810 Registered: 5-2007 |
s there any other decoration on them or near them (the doors) besides the entrance sign? no, but you know all about the doors that you need - they are the entrance doors to a cafe Is the triangle the clue to follow through? very much so, and you should concentrate on the kind of triangle brilliantly deduced by Noel Their spiritual significance? Their use in astonomy? The use in navigation? none of these - just their presence in geometry... A Christmas tree is sometimes represented by a triangle? indeed, but the Christmas tree has already put in an appearance Or an instrument played by an angel - but, no, angel has already been ruled out... I fear so Is turkey on the cafe menu? very possibly If not, is it the fare that is relevant? Drink? Workers? Furniture? Some other aspect of eating places? nothing of this kind - the doors are the entrance to a cafe, and that is all you need to know about the doors and the cafe Is a vest relevant? (not to be personal...) no A metal one? Armour? Underwear? > stocking? nothing of this kind Instead of an isosceles triangle, could it be "Good King Wenceslas"? that may be the first time this question has been asked in the entirety of human history. I cannot for the life of me think why Good King Wenceslas might appear in place of an isosceles triangle, but I wish I could - it would make a much better puzzle (And woubit will be pleased to learn that this American gal just discovered that there are lovely lyrics to a melody she has known for years.) woubit is delighted | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 811 Registered: 5-2007 |
Behind the twelfth door of the LTPF 2009 Advent Calendar is a picture of a man in a cloth cap. | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 810 Registered: 1-2001 |
There appear to be two bands called Isosceles - one has a track called Oblivion's Candle. Might a candle be behind this door? Is the cloth capped man from the north? Is there anything else in the picture? Is the rest of his clothing relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 812 Registered: 5-2007 |
There appear to be two bands called Isosceles - one has a track called Oblivion's Candle. does it, by George? Might a candle be behind this door? it might, but it isn't - you need to look at isosceles triangles, not other things that might go by the name of Isosceles Is the cloth capped man from the north? he is, as it happens, from Bolton in Lancashire. To some of us that is the North, I suppose, though perhaps not to such as Tommy. Is there anything else in the picture? he is wearing a rather silly pair of spectacles and holding a microphone Is the rest of his clothing relevant? not especially | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1043 Registered: 3-2004 |
Me? I'm from the south of Stockholm... The triangle - The Holy Trinity relevant? The man: Edison relevant? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1044 Registered: 3-2004 |
Silly spectacles and microphone would point to Elton John, is he relevant? I don't think he's from Bolton (as was not Edison, should read more carefully...), but maybe another musical artist is relevant? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4326 Registered: 12-2000 |
Are the words 'cafe doors' the relevant bit? I've tried translating it but I personally haven't found anything worth mentioning. How about anagrams? I rather like 'sofa coder'. One thing I enjoy at Christmas, or indeed any Bank Holiday, are the puzzles in newspapers, and for that matter this puzzle could be included. We are sofa coders. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 813 Registered: 5-2007 |
The triangle - The Holy Trinity relevant? no - the isosceles triangle itself is not a symbol of anything The man: Edison relevant? no Silly spectacles and microphone would point to Elton John, is he relevant? oh, the spectacles aren't that silly I don't think he's from Bolton (as was not Edison, should read more carefully...), but maybe another musical artist is relevant? not a musician, no Are the words 'cafe doors' the relevant bit? together with the word "entrance", yes I've tried translating it but I personally haven't found anything worth mentioning. well, translation does play a part in the solution to this particular door, but... How about anagrams? ...anagrams are not involved I rather like 'sofa coder'. I rather like it too, and it may appear in some future woubit Christmas puzzle, but not this one | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4327 Registered: 12-2000 |
Entrance becomes entree - which has long been my favourite tree in my profile. Entree as part of a meal relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 814 Registered: 5-2007 |
Entrance becomes entree - which has long been my favourite tree in my profile. Entree as part of a meal relevant? no - the word "entrance" does not need to be translated into some other language, but... | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 811 Registered: 1-2001 |
Fred Dibnah? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 815 Registered: 5-2007 |
Fred Dibnah? that's the chap - well done indeed. Now then... | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1045 Registered: 3-2004 |
Translation of door: porta? deur? pintu? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 816 Registered: 5-2007 |
Translation of door: porta? deur? pintu? "door" does not need to be translated either | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 812 Registered: 1-2001 |
Church steeple? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1384 Registered: 7-2009 |
cafe --> coffee? | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 813 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is there a cat behind the coffee shop doors? (Don't even ask how I got there!) | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 817 Registered: 5-2007 |
Church steeple? a steeple is indeed relevant, but it is by no means the entire story cafe --> coffee? no - a cafe is simply a place where you can get something to eat... Is there a cat behind the coffee shop doors? there is not (Don't even ask how I got there!) very well | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1046 Registered: 3-2004 |
café -> diner? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 818 Registered: 5-2007 |
café -> diner? no. The idea is that "entrance" means something in English, and "cafe" means something in French... | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 814 Registered: 1-2001 |
Steeplechase racing? Village with Steeple as first part of name? The Steeple Players production of A Christmas Carol? The Christmas Feast at Steeple by Rider Haggard (seems very gory..) Steeple projects at Oxford university? Weather vane on top of steeple? Cockerel? The triangle - relevant: two legs? base? base angle? vertex angle? Particular circumstance where isosceles triangle used? Relevant if it is equilateral? Is more than one triangle involved? needed? Lots? Pennants? Is the emphasis on the first syllable in entrance? | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 364 Registered: 9-2008 |
My apologies - free-association in the kaygee brain can be a scary thing to outsiders! I hope you responded with amusement and not concern. Does the triangle lead us to Euclid? or any other mathematician/philosopher? Does the steeple refer to the bells on Christmas morn? Or other music? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 819 Registered: 5-2007 |
Steeplechase racing? no Village with Steeple as first part of name? no The Steeple Players production of A Christmas Carol? no The Christmas Feast at Steeple by Rider Haggard (seems very gory..) not for Rider Haggard it isn't Steeple projects at Oxford university? no Weather vane on top of steeple? Cockerel? no - this is just a steeple The triangle - relevant: two legs? base? base angle? this vertex angle? Particular circumstance where isosceles triangle used? Relevant if it is equilateral? well, relevant that it isn't Is more than one triangle involved? no needed? Lots? Pennants? Is the emphasis on the first syllable in entrance? yes Does the triangle lead us to Euclid? yes indeed - excellent question or any other mathematician/philosopher? Does the steeple refer to the bells yes on Christmas morn? no Or other music? no | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4328 Registered: 12-2000 |
Regarding the triangle, are the words congruent or equal, relevant? The steeple bells - anything to do with Ding Dong Merrily on High? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 820 Registered: 5-2007 |
Regarding the triangle, are the words congruent or equal, this one relevant? The steeple bells - anything to do with Ding Dong Merrily on High? no - a rather more sombre piece of verse than that | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 367 Registered: 9-2008 |
Triangle - This is how we got here: "In an isosceles triangle the angles at the base are equal." But I am unsure where this leads to Christmas...so let's do a little word association. Elements? Theorems? Book 1? Equal legs? Acute angles? A whole host of cute angels - Cherubim? Are the bells: Silver Bells? Jingle Bells? Sleigh Bells? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4329 Registered: 12-2000 |
Bells - Carol of the Bells? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 821 Registered: 5-2007 |
Triangle - This is how we got here: "In an isosceles triangle the angles at the base are equal." But I am unsure where this leads to Christmas...so let's do a little word association. Elements? Theorems? Book 1? Equal legs? Acute angles? A whole host of cute angels - Cherubim? all bar the last of these are highly relevant, and should certainly be further explored (for the benefit of any laymen who may have wandered in, Kaygee refers here to Book I of Euclid's Elements, in particular to theorems relating to isosceles triangles...) Are the bells: Silver Bells? Jingle Bells? Sleigh Bells? no - they are iron bells Bells - Carol of the Bells? no - again, the bells play more sombre music than that | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 815 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do the bells "toll the knell of parting day"? Incense figures a time or two? wreath? ivy? | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 816 Registered: 1-2001 |
Relevant that the base angles specifically are not 60? That Euclid involved more than one triangle in his proof? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 822 Registered: 5-2007 |
Do the bells "toll the knell of parting day"? no Incense figures a time or two? I'm afraid I don't understand this question wreath? ivy? nothing to do with these Relevant that the base angles specifically are not 60? not especially That Euclid involved more than one triangle in his proof? proof of what? I should say here that no knowledge of geometry is required to solve this part of the puzzle, merely a knowledge of history... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4330 Registered: 12-2000 |
Cow bells? They hardly have a jingly sound, although I doubt if they'd be counted as sombre. Anyway, the animals in the stable? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4331 Registered: 12-2000 |
Forget cow bells - it was sombre verse that you said, and even at midnight on Christmas Eve I doubt that the cows broke into iambic pentameter. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 824 Registered: 5-2007 |
Cow bells? They hardly have a jingly sound, although I doubt if they'd be counted as sombre. Anyway, the animals in the stable? these are not cow bells - these are iron bells, and they are in a steeple... | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4332 Registered: 12-2000 |
I always thought that cow bells were made of iron So the bells in the steeple presumably are being tolled, and making 'sombre music'. Are they tolling for a funeral? If so, this would indicated myrrh. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 825 Registered: 5-2007 |
So the bells in the steeple presumably are being tolled, indeed, and if they've been tolled once they've been tolled a hundred times and making 'sombre music'. Are they tolling for a funeral? no If so, this would indicated myrrh. it might, but... | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 817 Registered: 1-2001 |
Presumably not John Donne - how about Edgar Allan Poe? | ||
| Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member Username: Sunshine Post Number: 818 Registered: 1-2001 |
No 13th door? Might the Magi have studied Euclid's works? Been influenced in their journey/ star-following? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 826 Registered: 5-2007 |
Presumably not John Donne - how about Edgar Allan Poe? exactly so - now then... Might the Magi have studied Euclid's works? I suppose they might - after all, Euclid produced his Elements a good three centuries before the birth of Christ Been influenced in their journey/ star-following? again, they might, but not for the purposes of this puzzle. Apologies for serious omission. Behind the thirteenth door is a picture of a gypsy playing a violin. | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1049 Registered: 3-2004 |
Is the gypsy indoors or outdoors? playing on a stage? with audience? or alone? Is he old? fine clothes? or dirty? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1051 Registered: 3-2004 |
Maybe Ghita Bulencea (Georges Boulanger) is relevant? the song "Avant de mourir"/"My Prayer"? "Gypsy Dances" relevant? Is the violin player famous? or is the person himself not relevant? | ||
| Tommyp (Tommyp)
New member Username: Tommyp Post Number: 1052 Registered: 3-2004 |
...or perhaps you mean that what we see is a picture? a painting of a gypsy playing violin? | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 369 Registered: 9-2008 |
Is it relevant that the Vatican holds the books of Elements? Is it relevant that the iron bells are being tolled by ghouls? king of the ghouls? Keeping time in a Runic rhyme? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4333 Registered: 12-2000 |
Gypsy - 'lautari' relevant? Anagram being 'a ritual'. Or Tigani lautari. | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 370 Registered: 9-2008 |
Gypsy = Minstrel? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 827 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the gypsy indoors this one or outdoors? playing on a stage? yes with audience? yes or alone? Is he old? middle aged fine clothes? or dirty? dressed in appropriate clothes for giving a stage performance Maybe Ghita Bulencea (Georges Boulanger) is relevant? no the song "Avant de mourir"/"My Prayer"? "Gypsy Dances" relevant? no Is the violin player famous? not at the present time, but he achieved a degree of fame half a century ago or so or is the person himself not relevant? on the contrary Is it relevant that the Vatican holds the books of Elements? no Is it relevant that the iron bells are being tolled by ghouls? yes indeed - excellent question king of the ghouls? possibly Keeping time in a Runic rhyme? that part is less relevant - what you need now is to explore the idea of the ghoul... Gypsy - 'lautari' relevant? no Anagram being 'a ritual'. Or Tigani lautari. there are no anagrams in this part of the puzzle Gypsy = Minstrel? no - gypsy = gypsy, and violin = violin | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 208 Registered: 11-2009 |
ghoul - is the star, Algol, relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 828 Registered: 5-2007 |
ghoul - is the star, Algol, relevant? it is indeed - very well done. Algol was certainly not the star that appeared over Bethlehem, but for the purposes of this Advent calendar, any star will do. This one was named in Arabic ra's al-ghul, or "head of the ghoul", and was clued in the puzzle by a man who spent most of his working life by himself in one steeple or another: And the people - ah, the people - They that dwell up in the steeple All alone, And who tolling, tolling, tolling, In that muffled monotone, Feel a glory in so rolling On the human heart a stone: They are neither man nor woman - They are neither brute nor human - They are Ghouls. Edgar Allan Poe, The Bells The fourteenth door is opened to reveal a picture of a flaming torch. | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 210 Registered: 11-2009 |
Torch: "torch singer" (they're a lateral bunch) relevant? Statue of Liberty relevant? Olympic games? British politicians? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 829 Registered: 5-2007 |
Torch: "torch singer" (they're a lateral bunch) relevant? no Statue of Liberty relevant? no Olympic games? no, but some aspect of what happens to the Olympic torch is relevant British politicians? they, in my experience, are completely irrelevant to everything | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 211 Registered: 11-2009 |
is anyone holding the torch? passing it to another? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 830 Registered: 5-2007 |
is anyone holding the torch? no, but... passing it to another? ...yes, indeed | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4334 Registered: 12-2000 |
The idea is that "entrance" means something in English, and "cafe" means something in French... Could entrance mean to entrance/enchant rather than mean the way in? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 831 Registered: 5-2007 |
Could entrance mean to entrance/enchant rather than mean the way in? on the contrary - the notion is very much that "entrance" means a way in... | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 611 Registered: 6-2003 |
Intermediate summary Ninth door: a pair of young boys, twins or at any rate alike in appearance, in a wretched state. They are accompanied by a man. Pope Gregory I -> "Non angli sed angeli" -> an isosceles triangle -> Euclid and his book "Elements", part 1, in particular theorems about isosceles triangles -> base angles are equal in isosceles triangles and do not exceed 90 degrees Tenth door: a picture of an old metal box -> match box -> Vesta (from Swan Vesta matches) is the relevant word Eleventh door: A pair of swing doors. Above them the word "Entrance" is written. The doors lead into a cafe, but are closed. The relevant part is that it is an entrance into a café. Twelvth door: A man in a cloth cap. Fred Dibnah -> steeplejack -> church steeple -> ghouls are tolling the bells (E A Poe) -> the star Algol -> the star of Bethlehem Thirteenth door: A gipsy playing a violin. Reference to a gipsy violin player that was famous in the 1950s. Fourteenth door: A flaming torch. Some aspect of what happens to the Olympic torch is relevant. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 832 Registered: 5-2007 |
Thanks very much, Sundowner. A couple of additional points: Tenth door: a picture of an old metal box -> match box -> Vesta (from Swan Vesta matches) is the relevant word "vesta" should be preceded by the indefinite article - what we have here is a vesta... Fourteenth door: A flaming torch. Some aspect of what happens to the Olympic torch is relevant. in particular, it is relevant that this torch, like the Olympic torch, is being passed from one hand to another... | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2392 Registered: 1-2007 |
Relevant that Avesta is a collection of sacred texts? Is the religeon Zoroastrianism relevant? Any other words for cafe relevant? Bistro? Estaminet? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4335 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is this the relay of the Olympic flame culminating in arriving at Olympic stadium? Honoured participants (including my 90+ year old aunt in Adelaide before the Beijing Olympics, I might proudly add) who pass the flame on around the world? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 612 Registered: 6-2003 |
9th door: Are the boys sad because they cannot become "right ones" (in whatever sense)? 10th door: Is the town of Avesta relevant? Dalarna horses? 11th door: Café as in coffee? Café-chantant? Café-thèatre? Café au lait? Café solo? (or maybe, the software Café solo?) 13th door: Is the guy Franz Reinhardt? (my first guess would have been Roby Lakatos but his fame is more recent) If not: is he still alive? is or was he Hungarian? German? Irish? French? Spanish? Belgian? East European? South European? 14th door: is the torch itself passed from one hand to another? or just the flame passed from one torch to the next? Is this some kind of ceremony or ritual? if so: does it prevail in our times? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 833 Registered: 5-2007 |
Relevant that Avesta is a collection of sacred texts? yes Is the religeon Zoroastrianism relevant? very much so Any other words for cafe relevant? Bistro? Estaminet? you do not need an exact synonym for, or translation of, "cafe" - rather, you need a partial description of what a cafe is... | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 834 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is this the relay of the Olympic flame culminating in arriving at Olympic stadium? Honoured participants (including my 90+ year old aunt in Adelaide before the Beijing Olympics, I might proudly add) who pass the flame on around the world? the torch in this picture is not the Olympic torch - all that matters about it is that it is a torch being passed from one hand to another | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 835 Registered: 5-2007 |
9th door: Are the boys sad because they cannot become "right ones" (in whatever sense)? no - all that needs to be known about them is that they are (identical) Angles, which has led to a theorem of Euclid on the properties of isosceles triangles... 10th door: Is the town of Avesta relevant? no Dalarna horses? no 11th door: Café as in coffee? Café-chantant? Café-thèatre? Café au lait? Café solo? (or maybe, the software Café solo?) none of these - again, what you need is some description of a cafe (in general, not any particular cafe) 13th door: Is the guy Franz Reinhardt? no (my first guess would have been Roby Lakatos but his fame is more recent) If not: is he still alive? no, and it is a debatable question whether he actually ever was "alive" as such is or was he Hungarian? German? Irish? French? Spanish? Belgian? East European? South European? he was to some extent English 14th door: is the torch itself passed from one hand to another? yes or just the flame passed from one torch to the next? no Is this some kind of ceremony or ritual? no if so: does it prevail in our times? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 613 Registered: 6-2003 |
10th door: a particular property of isosceles triangles relevant? isosceles triangles in general? Euklid? Euklidian geometry? (or maybe, non-Euklidian geometry?) Gauss? 11th door: café = établissement? money is the entrance to the establishment? 13th door: Is it a fictious violin player? does he appear in a poem? in a song? in a piece of literature? 14th door: is it a real torch? a picture of a torch? (on a coat of arms?) an electrical torch? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2393 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is the cafe a clue to the french verb to eat i.e. Manger? Is there a manger behind door 11? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1389 Registered: 7-2009 |
Ooh, if Peter's "Manger" guess isn't right, it should be. Great one! If it's not manger, are we looking for a synonym of cafe? --> diner? coffee shop? restaurant? deli? Triangle --> are we looking for something that is shaped like an isosceles triangle? Or for something about the properties of isosceles trianges? Is the idiom "passing the torch" relevant? Are we looking for someone who has passed a role or responsibility on to their protege/someone else? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 836 Registered: 5-2007 |
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