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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1195
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've been watching a TV series on disasters, and there's a lot of LTPF material in there. If this works well I may make a series out of it.
I'll post a couple of clues and the end result, your task is to figure out laterally how one led to the other. You can join in even if you know about the disaster, but please don't spoil of you know the details. Googling will be considered cheating. I may post more clues if you're on the wrong track.


How did a badly laid water pipe and a subway lead to horrific explosions tearing up streets and destroying buildings?
Hominid (Hominid)
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Post Number: 70
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the pipe in a building that was destroyed? Was it in the subway? Was the subway under the buildings?

Was this in: Canada? Neighboring island? United States? Mexico? Central America? Caribbean? Brazil? Southern South America? Northern South America? Western Europe? Scandinavia? Eastern Europe? Middle East? Siberia? Central Asia? East Asia? Southeast Asia? South Asia? North Africa? Southern Africa? East Africa? West Africa? Central Africa? Horn of Africa? Australia? Oceania? Other island that doesn't fit into these categories?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1200
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the pipe in a building that was destroyed? No. Was it in the subway? No. Was the subway under the buildings? Irr.

Was this in: Canada? Neighboring island? United States? Mexico? Central America? Caribbean? Brazil? Southern South America? Northern South America? Western Europe? Scandinavia? Eastern Europe? Middle East? Siberia? Central Asia? East Asia? Southeast Asia? South Asia? North Africa? Southern Africa? East Africa? West Africa? Central Africa? Horn of Africa? Australia? Oceania? Other island that doesn't fit into these categories? Mexico. Exact location irrelevant for the purpose of the puzzle.
Hominid (Hominid)
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Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Subway=an underground rapid transit system? An underground walkway? A franchise selling sandwiches? A canyon in Zion National Park? A 1985 movie? A 1990s R&B group? An episode of Seinfeld? A British rock band? An episode of life in the street?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1203
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 22, 2010 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Subway=an underground rapid transit system? Correct on the first try =) An underground walkway? A franchise selling sandwiches? A canyon in Zion National Park? A 1985 movie? A 1990s R&B group? An episode of Seinfeld? A British rock band? An episode of life in the street?
Torquemada (Torquemada)
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Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the water pipe laid immediately before the disaster? Days before? Weeks? Months? Years? Decades?

Did the poor laying of the water pipe mean that it got damaged? Leaked?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1219
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the water pipe laid immediately before the disaster? Days before? Weeks? Months? Years? This. Decades?

Did the poor laying of the water pipe mean that it got damaged? Yes. Leaked? Yes.
Torquemada (Torquemada)
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Post Number: 13
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the pipe damaged by trains running through the subway? Did it leak into the subway? Are the pipe and subway connected in some way? Or did separate and unrelated mistakes in each cause the disaster?

Were the horrific explosions caused by gas? Did the water damage a gas main?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1221
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 23, 2010 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the pipe damaged by trains running through the subway? Did it leak into the subway? Are the pipe and subway connected in some way? The only connection is that they were both factors leading up to the disaster. Or did separate and unrelated mistakes in each cause the disaster? There are no mistakes related to the subway.

Were the horrific explosions caused by gas? DYOD of gas. Did the water damage a gas main? No, but there is damage to a relevant pipe in addition to the water pipe, caused by contact between the metal in the two pipes.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 630
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the other relevant pipe a gas pipe (meaning natural gas)? a pipe for gasoline (e.g. from an underground tank in a gas station)? an oil pipeline? a sewer pipe?

Did the subway contribute because the tunnels made the ground less stable? because they allowed water to flow from one place to another? because one of the trains collided with something?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1238
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the other relevant pipe a gas pipe (meaning natural gas)? a pipe for gasoline This. (e.g. from an underground tank in a gas station)? But bigger than this. an oil pipeline? a sewer pipe? Sewer pipes are also involved.

Did the subway contribute because the tunnels made the ground less stable? because they allowed water to flow from one place to another? because one of the trains collided with something? Neither.
Torquemada (Torquemada)
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Post Number: 49
Registered: 1-2010
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there was a water pipe, which was badly laid and leaked, a pipe for gasoline, and sewer pipes involved?

Were the explosions caused by the gasoline? Did the gasoline leak? Did it leak into the subway? Did the explosions occur in the subway?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1244
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there was a water pipe, which was badly laid and leaked, a pipe for gasoline, and sewer pipes involved? Yes.

Were the explosions caused by the gasoline? Indeed. Did the gasoline leak? Yes it did. Did it leak into the subway? Did the explosions occur in the subway? But no to these.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 2259
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the gasoline and water mix at some point? Is the entire subway system relevant, or just a part of it? The trains? The tubes? The stations? Were people killed or injured?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1248
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 03, 2010 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the gasoline and water mix at some point? Yes, for svv of water. Is the entire subway system relevant, or just a part of it? The trains? The tubes? This. The stations? Were people killed or injured? Yes.
Torquemada (Torquemada)
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Post Number: 73
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Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the water that mixed with the gasoline come from the water pipe? From a lake? From the sea? Was it rain? Moisture in the ground?

Did the gasoline explode underground? Did it damage the subway tubes? The sewer pipes?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1252
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, February 05, 2010 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the water that mixed with the gasoline come from the water pipe? Some of this. From a lake? From the sea? Was it rain? And probably some of this. Mostly something else though. Moisture in the ground?

Did the gasoline explode underground? Yes. Did it damage the subway tubes? Irr. The sewer pipes? Very much yes.
Torquemada (Torquemada)
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Post Number: 112
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Posted on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The source of this water's puzzling me. [LTPF list of places water might come from]? OK, that's very cheeky, so:

Some water from the pipe and (probably) some rain mixed with the gasoline, but most of the water that mixed with it (for svv of water) came from somewhere else. correct? Was the water being stored? Processed? Part of the natural water cycle? Was it in a reservoir? River? Stream? Canal?

And on the "svv" theme, was it ice? A water-based solution? A "watery" substance which didn't actually contain any H2O?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1270
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, February 16, 2010 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The source of this water's puzzling me. [LTPF list of places water might come from]? OK, that's very cheeky, so:

Some water from the pipe and (probably) some rain mixed with the gasoline, but most of the water that mixed with it (for svv of water) came from somewhere else. correct? Correct. Was the water being stored? No. Processed? Not yet. Part of the natural water cycle? No. Was it in a reservoir? River? Stream? Canal? Neither.

And on the "svv" theme, was it ice? A water-based solution? This is closest. A "watery" substance which didn't actually contain any H2O?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 650
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Posted on Wednesday, February 17, 2010 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "svv water" from the sewer pipe? was it a coolant used in some machinery or plant?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1274
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Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "svv water" from the sewer pipe? This. It's sewage. was it a coolant used in some machinery or plant?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 658
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Thursday, February 18, 2010 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the gasoline exploded, breaking the sewer pipe and water pipe, allowing the gasoline to mix with the water and sewage? or did the exploding gasoline only break the sewer pipe, and the (actual) water pipe was broken by something else?

Was the role of the subway part of the events leading up to the gasoline leak? part of what caused the leaked gasoline to explode? part of why the explosion damaged the streets and buildings?

As for the pipe with the gasoline, was it part of an oil refinery?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1277
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the gasoline exploded, breaking the sewer pipe and water pipe, allowing the gasoline to mix with the water and sewage? This is incorrect. or did the exploding gasoline only break the sewer pipe, and the (actual) water pipe was broken by something else? This. The water pipe and gasoline pipe corroded because they were in physical contact (galvanic corrision).

Was the role of the subway part of the events leading up to the gasoline leak? No. part of what caused the leaked gasoline to explode? Noish, explore. part of why the explosion damaged the streets and buildings? No.

As for the pipe with the gasoline, was it part of an oil refinery? Yes.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 663
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Posted on Friday, February 19, 2010 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the subway in fact anywhere near the three pipes (sewer, gasoline, and water, which must have been in proximity given what we have found out so far)?

Did the subway somehow prevent detection? or response to? the conditions that caused the disaster?

Did the gasoline explode because it contacted a heat source? an electrical wire?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1280
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Posted on Monday, February 22, 2010 - 7:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the subway in fact anywhere near the three pipes (sewer, gasoline, and water, which must have been in proximity given what we have found out so far)? The subway was near the sewer pipe. Explore.

Did the subway somehow prevent detection? or response to? the conditions that caused the disaster? Neither, but OTRT.

Did the gasoline explode because it contacted a heat source? an electrical wire? This is unknown, but neither of these are the most likely.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 668
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Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 7:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the subway under the sewer pipe? alongside it? did it contain the pipe?

Did something that occurred within the subway affect the sewer pipe? or was something done during the construction of the subway that disturbed the sewer pipe? Did part of the subway obscure (in the sense of making invisible) something that someone should have seen and fixed?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1282
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Posted on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the subway under the sewer pipe? alongside it? did it contain the pipe? Neither.

Did something that occurred within the subway affect the sewer pipe? No. or was something done during the construction of the subway that disturbed the sewer pipe? Yes(ish), explore. Did part of the subway obscure (in the sense of making invisible) something that someone should have seen and fixed? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1341
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 07, 2010 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap: a badly laid water pipe leads to the corrosion and eventual leakage of a gasoline pipeline. Gasoline eventually finds its way into the sewers.
The subway is somehow relevant, specifically something that was done during its construction, which affected the sewer pipe.
The result of all this is a series of horrific explosions, destroying the sewer pipe and everything above.
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Post Number: 449
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Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 4:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the subway builders move or adjust any of the pipes during construction?
Does it matter which came first - the subway or one (or more) of the pipes?
Is there something about the design of the subway that is relevant?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1640
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Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the subway builders move or adjust any of the pipes during construction? Yes.
Does it matter which came first - the subway or one (or more) of the pipes? Yes, the sewer came first.
Is there something about the design of the subway that is relevant? No, but...
Hint: under different circumstances, the gasoline would've followed the sewage out - the stream of gasoline in itself was not enough to cause an explosion.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 724
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that gasoline is less dense than water? Possibly the sewer pipe was sloped at an unusual angle (for instance, bent into an arch), such that the tendency of the gasoline to rise caused it to be trapped in a particular location?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 1644
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 7:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that gasoline is less dense than water? Yes. Possibly the sewer pipe was sloped at an unusual angle (for instance, bent into an arch), such that the tendency of the gasoline to rise caused it to be trapped in a particular location? Yes! The sewer pipe was routed underneath the subway, and the bend worked to trap the gasoline and vapors. The vapors collected in the sewer pipe, and it eventually exploded.
**SPOILER**
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_explosions_in_Guadalajara

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