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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 2682
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Her attempt to murder her husband backfired. How?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2010 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the husband die? Did she die? Or get caught? Or get injured? Did someone else relevant die? Did she try to poison him? Did she try to pin the murder on someone else? Did they have children? Relevant? Relevant which century this happened? If so, did it happen in [LTPF list of centuries]? Did it happen in Ireland?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 2:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the husband die? No. Did she die? Yes. Or get caught? No. Or get injured? In the course of dying, yes. Did someone else relevant die? No. Did she try to poison him? No. Did she try to pin the murder on someone else? No. Did they have children? Unknown. Relevant? No. Relevant which century this happened? Only vaguely. If so, did it happen in [LTPF list of centuries]? Assume 19th or 20th, but probably not modern. Did it happen in Ireland? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 2:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she try to kill him by [LTPF list of ways to die]? Did she die by [LTPF list of ways to die]? Was the husband injured? Did she try to burn their house down? Did she damage their house in any way? Were the husband and wife farmers?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she try to kill him by [LTPF list of ways to die]? Drowning. Did she die by [LTPF list of ways to die]? Drowning. Was the husband injured? Did she try to burn their house down? Did she damage their house in any way? No to all. Were the husband and wife farmers? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 3:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she try to drown him in a lake? Pond? Stream? Ocean? Pool? Puddle? Bathtub? Sink? Creek? Flood? Did she drown in the same body of water she tried to drown him in?

Was he home at the time of the attempted murder? Was she home? Did she set a trap of some sort for him, but tripped it instead?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 3:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she try to drown him in a lake? Pond? Stream? Ocean? Pool? Puddle? Bathtub? Sink? Creek? Flood? Assume ocean or other outside body of water. Did she drown in the same body of water she tried to drown him in? Yes.

Was he home at the time of the attempted murder? No. Was she home? No. Did she set a trap of some sort for him, but tripped it instead? Yes, in a sense. But the story is more complex than this alone.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 4:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was anyone else involved? Was anyone else intended to die? Was anyone else involved in the plot?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was anyone else involved? Yes. Was anyone else intended to die? No. Was anyone else involved in the plot? Not necessarily the murder part, but yes.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the answer to this question is yes I will bow out because as an Irishman I have a distinct advantage......

Are eggs relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the answer to this question is yes I will bow out because as an Irishman I have a distinct advantage......

Are eggs relevant? Yep. I reckoned you'd know this one. :p
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the eggs being sold? Laid? Collected? Eaten? Cooked? Stolen?

Was the motive for the crime something to do with the eggs?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2010 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice puzzle Jenburdoo. I must remember to tell you something when this is solved.

Although not too sure how much help the eggs reference will be.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 4:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the eggs being sold? Laid? Collected? Eaten? This. Cooked? Irr. Stolen? No to the others.

Was the motive for the crime something to do with the eggs? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, June 04, 2010 - 4:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Eaten: by the husband? Wife? Third party?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2010 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Eaten: by the husband? This. Wife? Third party?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2010 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the eggs poisoned?

Were they normal hen eggs? Is it relevant how many?

Did he eat them at once, or over a longer period of time?

Any legends relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2010 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the eggs poisoned? No.

Were they normal hen eggs? Yes. Is it relevant how many? No.

Did he eat them at once, Assume yes. or over a longer period of time?

Any legends relevant? No, it's more something that might be classed as an old wives' tale.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2010 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild and probably wrong guess: Did she try to drown him by having him swim on a full stomach?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 12:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild and probably wrong guess: Did she try to drown him by having him swim on a full stomach? Not a bad idea, but no.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he eat the eggs before she tried to drown him? Recently before?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 2:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he eat the eggs before she tried to drown him? Yes. Recently before? Irrelevant -- probably within a couple days. To avoid FAs, I should say there are a number of different things she could have fed him, not just eggs. Marrowbones are also mentioned in the story.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2010 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she feed him: to cause a physical effect upon him? Someone else? Psychological?

Any other people involved?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she feed him: to cause a physical effect upon him? This. Someone else? Psychological? And this, to a smaller extent.

Any other people involved? Yes.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other people involved: 1?2?3? More than 5? 10? 100?

Does she have a lover? If so, is he relevant?
Do they have children? Relevant?

The physical effect: was it to make him full? ill?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 2:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other people involved: 1?2? This.} 3? More than 5? 10? 100?

Does she have a lover? If so, is he relevant? Yes to both.
Do they have children? Relevant? no.

The physical effect: was it to make him full? ill? Neither.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 2:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she pregnant? With the lover's child? Is she trying to make him amorous to hide this?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 3:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she pregnant? With the lover's child? Is she trying to make him amorous to hide this? No to all. Kids are irrelevant, remember.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 3:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the lover involved in the murder plot? Did he actively participate in the actual attempt?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 4:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the lover involved in the murder plot? Did he actively participate in the actual attempt? No to both.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the other person involved HAF? If so, is she the husband's lover?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is allergic reaction relevant?

Did husband know he was fed eggs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the other person involved HAF? If so, is she the husband's lover? No to both.

Is allergic reaction relevant? Possible, but unlikely.

Did husband know he was fed eggs? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other person involved: H? A? M? Knows the husband? The wife?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other person involved: H? Yes. A? Yes. M? Irr, assume yes.} Knows the husband? No. The wife? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this 4th person involved in the murder plot? The attempt?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 6:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this 4th person involved in the murder plot? Yope. The attempt? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the wife's motive that she wanted to be with her lover?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the wife's motive that she wanted to be with her lover? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she push him into the water? Try to? Hold his head under water? Try to? Did she fall in the water and drown? Hit her head, fall in the water, and drown?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she push him into the water? No. Try to? Yes. Hold his head under water? No. Try to? No. Did she fall in the water and drown? Yes. Hit her head, fall in the water, and drown? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she try to push him into the water with her hands? Another object?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 2:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she try to push him into the water with her hands? This. Another object?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mm, marrowbones... makes my mouth water... But what the heck can they have in common with eggs, moreover eaten days earlier?


Anyway...


Any magical practices/witchcraft involved?

Were the eggs just ordinary eggs, or was there anything different about them?

Are just the eggs (or another kind of food) relevant, or is it rather the manner/time/location where they were eaten?

Were eggs easily accessible? Did he/she had to do something extraordinary to get hold of them?

Is it relevant how the eggs were prepared?

Did she say something relevant to him when/after giving him the eggs?

Could he have reasonably suspected there was something wrong?

Did she try to push him off a cliff or some other place high above the water?

Is this a true story? A well-known tale?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any magical practices/witchcraft involved? You may assume yes, though I'd call it more an old wives' tale.

Were the eggs just ordinary eggs, or was there anything different about them? Ordinary.

Are just the eggs (or another kind of food) relevant, Just the food. or is it rather the manner/time/location where they were eaten? Assume they were eaten at home. The manner in which they were eaten is mildly relevant (ie, knowing it won't really help you solve the puzzle), but it is unusual.

Were eggs easily accessible? Assume yes. Did he/she had to do something extraordinary to get hold of them? No.

Is it relevant how the eggs were prepared? No.

Did she say something relevant to him when/after giving him the eggs? After.

Could he have reasonably suspected there was something wrong? Yes.

Did she try to push him off a cliff or some other place high above the water? No, but OTRT.

Is this a true story? No. A well-known tale? Not to most, but to a certain segment of the population which includes Peter365 and me.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he her husband for a long time before that happened?

Did he attempt at her life before? Was he kind to her?

Was the relevant thing she said him after giving him the eggs true? Did she say it before he had eaten them?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2010 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the lover involved with the eggs in some way? The fourth person (who I'm calling Pat)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2010 - 2:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he her husband for a long time before that happened? Irr.

Did he attempt at her life before? No. Was he kind to her? Irr.

Was the relevant thing she said him after giving him the eggs true? It wasn't really a statement of fact, so can't be called true or false. Did she say it before he had eaten them? No.

Is the lover involved with the eggs in some way? No. The fourth person (who I'm calling Pat)? Yesish.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can whatever she told him be qualified as a spell?

Did she refer to: the eggs? Him? Herself? Her lover? The fact he was going to die?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can whatever she told him be qualified as a spell? No.

Did she refer to: the eggs? Him? This. Herself? This. Her lover? The fact he was going to die? This.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she say something like, "I'm going to kill you?" Did the husband think she was saying it in jest? That she was serious?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she say something like, "I'm going to kill you?" Yes. Did the husband think she was saying it in jest? That she was serious? This.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the husband resist her attempts (by trying not to fall in the water? Could the husband swim? The wife?

Did the wife say this when about to drown her husband?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the husband resist her attempts (by trying not to fall in the water)? Yes. Could the husband swim? Irr. The wife? No.

Did the wife say this when about to drown her husband? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she say this when feeding him the eggs? Before? After?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the eggs the last meal she gave him? Did she tell him they were?

I do not know why but it sounds like a topic of a song to me....
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she say this when feeding him the eggs? Before? After? This.

Were the eggs the last meal she gave him? Irr. Did she tell him they were? No.

I do not know why but it sounds like a topic of a song to me.... It is.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she feed him the eggs on the same day she tried to drown him? Was the husband tired after eating them?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she feed him the eggs on the same day she tried to drown him? Probably not; exact time between the two occurrences is irrelevant. Was the husband tired after eating them? Irr.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the eggs an indirect cause of the murder attempt?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the eggs an indirect cause of the murder attempt? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 1:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...I'm confusing myself again.

Could you please recap?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...I'm confusing myself again.

Could you please recap?

Let's see... a woman had a lover, and so plotted to murder her husband. Her plot tangentially involved someone else who has not been identified. She fed her husband eggs and marrowbones as part of this plot, which also involved what might be considered magic or an old wives' tale. Sometime afterward, she informed her husband she intended to kill him. She attempted to drown him, but fell in herself and drowned.

What did feeding her husband with these foods accomplish, and what did this have to do with her plot? Why did she die (it's not simply because she couldn't swim)?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 2:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the other person involved sell something to the husband? The wife? Sold her the eggs/marrowbones perhaps?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 2:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the other person involved sell something to the husband? The wife? Sold her the eggs/marrowbones perhaps? No to all.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying to weaken him in some way? Was Person 4 (Pat) related to the wife? The husband? The wife's lover? A friend of any of the three?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 2:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying to weaken him in some way? Yes. Was Person 4 (Pat) related to the wife? The husband? The wife's lover? A friend of any of the three? No to all.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 3:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying to weaken him physically? Emotionally? Some other way?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 4:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she trying to weaken him physically? Emotionally? Some other way? Hm, the first two really, though I don't know if the physical part could strictly be called "weakening".
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 7:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Pat a wizard/witch? An innocent passer-by? A captain? Actually, does she want to throw him off the board of a ship?

Did Pat help any of the three other people involved? Do them any harm?

Was there a common belief relating to the eggs/marrowbones?

Is the lover involved in the plot in any other way that he existed (and was the cause she wanted to murder her husband)?

So she gave him the eggs and/or marrowbones (mm..) and told him he was going to die/she was going to kill him? And did not mention the food at all?

Did she specify how he was going to die? Did she say something else relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 8:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Pat a wizard/witch? No. An innocent passer-by? No. A captain? No. Actually, does she want to throw him off the board of a ship? No.

Did Pat help any of the three other people involved? Yes, the wife. Do them any harm? Indirectly, the husband (though I've seen versions of the song where he helps him instead. For purposes of this puzzle, assume he doesn't).

Was there a common belief relating to the eggs/marrowbones? I don't think so, but for purposes of the puzzle assume yes.

Is the lover involved in the plot in any other way that he existed (and was the cause she wanted to murder her husband)? No.

So she gave him the eggs and/or marrowbones (mm..) and told him he was going to die/she was going to kill him? And did not mention the food at all? Hm, how to avoid FAs... she fed him first, actively bringing his attention to the food. Afterwards, she said she would kill him (though, look out for FAs).

Did she specify how he was going to die? Yope. Did she say something else relevant? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the mere fact of giving eggs to her husband mean for him/her something more than just giving him food? Is it somehow linked to him dying later? Did she tell him that there was something wrong with the eggs?

Is Pat a supranatural being? The devil?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the mere fact of giving eggs to her husband mean for him/her something more than just giving him food? Yes. Is it somehow linked to him dying later? Yes. Did she tell him that there was something wrong with the eggs? No.

Is Pat a supranatural being? No. The devil?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 11:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any specific meaning attributed to eggs in the Irish folklore?

Was it the first time she gave him eggs to eat?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any specific meaning attributed to eggs in the Irish folklore? Assume yes.

Was it the first time she gave him eggs to eat? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the action of feeding him eggs symbolic of something?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the action of feeding him eggs symbolic of something? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 1:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Pat know the husband? The wife?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...The lover?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Pat know the husband? In one version of the song, but for this puzzle assume no. The wife? Yes. ...The lover? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Pat give something to the wife? Vice versa? Does that "something" help with the murder plot? Does Pat know of the murder plot?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 1:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Pat give something to the wife? Yesish. Vice versa? No. Does that "something" help with the murder plot? Yes. Does Pat know of the murder plot? Irr, but he can guess.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the wife steal something from Pat? The eggs? Marrowbones?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the wife steal something from Pat? No. The eggs? Marrowbones?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 7:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the something Pat gives the wife tangible? If so, is it the eggs? Or does the wife buy the something from Pat? Can Pat/any other person reasonably assume that the wife will use it for murder?

Had the wife given her husband the eggs without saying the relevant thing, would the result be the same (ie would he be able to guess she wants him dead)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the something Pat gives the wife tangible? No. If so, is it the eggs? Or does the wife buy the something from Pat? Can Pat/any other person reasonably assume that the wife will use it for murder? Hmm, yope.

Had the wife given her husband the eggs without saying the relevant thing, would the result be the same (ie would he be able to guess she wants him dead)? Under the version of the song I'm using for the puzzle, probably not.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Pat's profession/occupation relevant?

The thing Pat gives to the wife: is it a spell? An advice? Actually, do spells play a role in this puzzle?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Pat's profession/occupation relevant? Yes.

The thing Pat gives to the wife: is it a spell? An advice? No. Actually, do spells play a role in this puzzle? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Pat's profession common nowadays? Is he a farmer?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Pat's profession common nowadays? Yes. Is he a farmer? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let us concentrate on the eggs for a while.

We have established that she gave him the eggs to produce both a psychological and a physical effect on him. The physical effect did not include poisoning. So far correct?

We have also established that eggs have a specific meaning in the Irish folklore, right?.

Was the physical effect to make him fat/heavy/tired? Can it be classified as a preparation for the drowning? Is there a belief that you cannot swim on a full stomach/a stomach full of eggs? Is the meaning of the eggs related rather to their relationship (eg if I give you eggs it means I don't love you anymore)? Or rather to the drowning part (if you eat eggs, chicken will hatch in your stomach and make you drown)?

Was the psychological reason of what she told him: to weaken him? by making him believe she does not love him anymore? making him believe that she had cast a spell on him? that there is something wrong with the eggs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let us concentrate on the eggs for a while. Okay.

We have established that she gave him the eggs to produce both a psychological and a physical effect on him. The physical effect did not include poisoning. So far correct? Correct.

We have also established that eggs have a specific meaning in the Irish folklore, right? No.

Was the physical effect to make him fat/heavy/tired? b{No.} Can it be classified as a preparation for the drowning? Yes. Is there a belief that you cannot swim on a full stomach/a stomach full of eggs? No. Is the meaning of the eggs related rather to their relationship (eg if I give you eggs it means I don't love you anymore)? No. Or rather to the drowning part (if you eat eggs, chicken will hatch in your stomach and make you drown)? No.

Was the psychological reason of what she told him: to weaken him? Not really, but closest of these. by making him believe she does not love him anymore? making him believe that she had cast a spell on him? that there is something wrong with the eggs?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she want to lessen his will to live? His ability to resist when she tried to drown him?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she want to lessen his will to live? His ability to resist when she tried to drown him? Both, really.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And feeding him the eggs was supposed to accomplish that? Did it? Was she trying to say that they were poor and could not afford anything more than eggs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And feeding him the eggs was supposed to accomplish that? Yes. Did it? Depends on the version of the song, but assume yes. Was she trying to say that they were poor and could not afford anything more than eggs? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would other foods besides eggs have accomplished her purpose?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would other foods besides eggs have accomplished her purpose? Yes, since this is a fictional story. It doesn't matter what sort of food it was, really.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did eggs have a special meaning or connotation to the husband? wife? Pat?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 1:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did eggs have a special meaning or connotation to the husband? wife? Pat? Yes to the latter, of which he informed the wife.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 1:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Pat inform the wife of this before she purchased the eggs? After, but before feeding them to the husband? After he ate them?

Did she eat any of the eggs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Did Pat inform the wife of this before she purchased the eggs? This. After, but before feeding them to the husband? After he ate them?

Did she eat any of the eggs? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 1:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm assuming Pat's, um, "connotation" is why the wife bought the eggs. Is this correct?

Did Pat tell her that eggs weakened one's will to live?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 2:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm assuming Pat's, um, "connotation" is why the wife bought the eggs. Is this correct? Yes.

Did Pat tell her that eggs weakened one's will to live? No, but you're flailing around the right track.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 2:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Pat tell her that eggs weakened one's psyche in any way?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Did Pat tell her that eggs weakened one's psyche in any way? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 3:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was part of the reason she fed him eggs that he wouldn't react as strongly to her claim that she was going to kill him?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 3:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was part of the reason she fed him eggs that he wouldn't react as strongly to her claim that she was going to kill him? No, but again, you're circling the general area.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 3:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the eggs intended to make the husband tired? Was there something in the eggs (not a poison though)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 4:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the eggs intended to make the husband tired? Not this. Was there something in the eggs (not a poison though)? No.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Pat told the wife something that made her think eggs would produce a certain effect on her husband. (Was that true, or is it irrelevant?)

The wife buys the eggs, gives them to her husband, tells him she was going to kill him, attempts to do so a few days later but fails and falls into the water herself. Correct?

When she was trying to push him into the water, were they standing on firm ground? Were they on a ship? A pier? On a cliff/rock?

It still puzzles me why she did it DAYS (and not minutes) after the eggs were eaten.

Does he actually eat the eggs? Is she present when he is eating?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Pat told the wife something that made her think eggs would produce a certain effect on her husband. (Was that true, or is it irrelevant?) Depends on the version of the song. For purposes of this puzzle, assume it works.

The wife buys the eggs, gives them to her husband, tells him she was going to kill him, attempts to do so a few days later The same day. but fails and falls into the water herself. Correct?

When she was trying to push him into the water, were they standing on firm ground? Were they on a ship? A pier? This. On a cliff/rock?

It still puzzles me why she did it DAYS (and not minutes) after the eggs were eaten. Perhaps it took time to take effect. It wasn't so very long after.

Does he actually eat the eggs? Is she present when he is eating? Yes to both.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the husband physically resist his wife when she was trying to push him in? Was he able to?

Does she tell her husband she's going to kill him just before she tries to do so? Just after he eats the eggs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Did the husband physically resist his wife when she was trying to push him in? No. Was he able to? Yesish.

Does she tell her husband she's going to kill him just before she tries to do so? Just after he eats the eggs? No to both.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the eggs actually physically affect the husband?

If so, was it on his entire body? Arms? Legs? Head? Torso? Intestines? Heart? Lungs? Liver?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the husband physically able to resist the wife? Psychologically? Emotionally?

Does she tell the husband that she will kill him, as he eats the eggs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the husband physically able to resist the wife? This for certain; the other two depend on your interpretation of the story. Psychologically? Emotionally?

Does she tell the husband that she will kill him, as he eats the eggs? No, some time after.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the order of events goes: Pat tells wife about eggs - Wife gets eggs - Wife feeds husband eggs - time passes - Wife tells husband she'll kill him - time passes - Wife tries to push hubby off a pier but falls in herself and drowns.

This all correct?

And I think you missed Alhucema's questions above...
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 4:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, thanks!

Did the eggs actually physically affect the husband? Yes.

If so, was it on his entire body? Arms? Legs? Head? This. Torso? Intestines? Heart? Lungs? Liver?

So the order of events goes: Pat tells wife about eggs - Wife gets eggs - Wife feeds husband eggs - time passes - Wife tells husband she'll kill him - time passes - Wife tries to push hubby off a pier but falls in herself and drowns.

This all correct? Yes.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 4:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops, thanks!

Did the eggs actually physically affect the husband? Yes.

If so, was it on his entire body? Arms? Legs? Head? This. Torso? Intestines? Heart? Lungs? Liver?

So the order of events goes: Pat tells wife about eggs - Wife gets eggs - Wife feeds husband eggs - time passes - Wife tells husband she'll kill him - time passes - Wife tries to push hubby off a pier but falls in herself and drowns.

This all correct? Yes.

Just as a hint: This puzzle, like a few of my others, is based on a folksong, and folksong logic is NOT real logic. ;)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 4:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the eggs give her husband a headache? Did he go to sleep soon afterwards? Is that when the wife decided to toss the hubby off the pier?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 5:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the eggs give her husband a headache? Did he go to sleep soon afterwards? Is that when the wife decided to toss the hubby off the pier? No to all.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 5:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the husband awake throughout this entire affair? Is he in physical pain after eating the eggs? Before?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 5:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the husband awake throughout this entire affair? Yes, unless a night or two passes in the course of events. Is he in physical pain after eating the eggs? Before? No to both.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 6:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the eggs affect a part of his head? His brain? Eyes? Ears? Mouth? Nose? *Sings* Head, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes.

*Slaps own head*
Wow, that was random. Sorry.

Back to the puzzle: Or do the eggs make his head shrink/grow in size? (Trying to figure out folk-song logic at the same time...doubt I'll have much success.)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 6:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the eggs affect a part of his head? His brain? Eyes? This. Ears? Mouth? Nose? *Sings* Head, shoulders, knees and toes, knees and toes. Gee, thanks for the earworm!

*Slaps own head* Wow, that was random. Sorry.

Back to the puzzle: Or do the eggs make his head shrink/grow in size? No. (Trying to figure out folk-song logic at the same time...doubt I'll have much success.) It'll all make sense in the end. Sort of.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 6:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the eggs make him blind?

(I, too, am trying to imagine the logic of the folksongs - by the way, I LOVE Scottish and Irish folksongs - and I bet the wife speaks to Pat and he tells her something like:

....Oh give him eggs and marrowbones,
Ta dada dada da, O!)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 7:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the eggs make him blind? Yes.

(I, too, am trying to imagine the logic of the folksongs - by the way, I LOVE Scottish and Irish folksongs - and I bet the wife speaks to Pat and he tells her something like:

....Oh give him eggs and marrowbones,
Ta dada dada da, O!)

Yep, he does. Do you know this one, then?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2445
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, I am just guessing by the general pattern of the songs I already know. Not that I am not fighting with the temptation to google, but I will definitely resist it and keep guessing :-)).

Do the eggs REALLY make him blind? And she leads him to the pier (perhaps telling him she is leading him somewhere else )and tries to push him into the water, correct?

Is there some external factor which saves him? Or does she just miss him and fall in herself?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the eggs REALLY make him blind? Yes. And she leads him to the pier Yes. (perhaps telling him she is leading him somewhere else )and tries to push him into the water, correct? Eh, close enough. She does tell him ahead of time that she plans to kill him, but it doesn't really affect her plot.

Is there some external factor which saves him? Or does she just miss him and fall in herself? This.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she eat the eggs, too (and is she blind as well)? Have we established that he did NOT fall into the water? Does she get injured when falling into the water (hit her head or something)?

So the wife has a lover, and wants to get rid of her husband. Based on the information received from Pat, she gives him eggs to make him blind, tells him she is going to kill him, leads him to the pier, tries to push him into the water but falls in herself and drowns.

Is there more for us to be found?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she eat the eggs, too (and is she blind as well)? No to both. Have we established that he did NOT fall into the water? Yes. Does she get injured when falling into the water (hit her head or something)? No.

So the wife has a lover, and wants to get rid of her husband. Based on the information received from Pat, she gives him eggs to make him blind, tells him she is going to kill him, leads him to the pier, tries to push him into the water but falls in herself and drowns.

Is there more for us to be found? Why does he let her try to kill him? Why doesn't he rescue her?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I wouldn't be too keen to rescue someone who was trying to kill me, would I?

Also, given he is blind, he can't see her in the water. How could he save her? (I reckon there is a big dramatic climax when she cries for help and he gives her a just-before-drowning moral lesson?)

Does he know she is trying to push him into the water? Could he have saved her if he wanted to? Is he still blind at the moment when she tries to push him? Does he ever recover?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, given he is blind, he can't see her in the water. How could he save her? (I reckon there is a big dramatic climax when she cries for help and he gives her a just-before-drowning moral lesson?) Aha!

Does he know she is trying to push him into the water? Could he have saved her if he wanted to? Depends on whether a certain verse is added in -- see below. Is he still blind at the moment when she tries to push him? Does he ever recover?

*******************
SPOILER
*******************

There was an old woman from Wexford,
In Wexford town did dwell.
She loved her husband dearly,
But another man twice as well.

So one day she went to the doctor,
Some medicine for to find,
Said, "Doctor, give me something
For to make me husband blind."

"Oh, feed him eggs and marrowbones,
And make him suck them all.
It won't be so very long after
That he won't see you at all."

So she fed him eggs and marrowbones,
And made him suck them all.
It wasn't so very long after
That he couldn't see the wall.

Says he, “I'd go and drown meself,
But that might be a sin.”
Says she, “I'll come to the water's edge,
And help to push you in.”

The woman she stepped back a bit
To rush and push him in.
But the old man lightly stepped aside,
And she went tumblin' in.

Oh, how loudly did she yell,
And how loudly did she bawl.
“I can't help you, old woman,” says he,
“For I can't see you at all!”

Sure, sucking eggs and marrowbones
Will make your husband blind.
But if you want to drown him,
You must creep up close behind!

In a more popular variant of this song, the husband is forewarned, the trick does not work, and he can see perfectly well. He gets a pole and pushes her deeper into the water!

Next puzzle you-know-where.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 16, 2010 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great stuff Jenburdoo, how did you come across this?

The irony is that I was at a party the weekend before you posted this and I sang this ditty during the compulsary singsong. This is one of my old reliables along with Finnegan's Wake & The Town of Ballybay.

You're right about the more popular variant of the song which after the line "For I can't see you at all" contains the lyric:

"She swam and swam and swam and swam
till she came to the water's brim
the old man took a long larch pole
and pushed her further in"


and of course each 4 line verse is punctuated with a good old

" With me right fol lid-der-al ar-yl, And me right fol low-rel lee".

I could try and tell you how to pronounce this but it would take me all night.

If all of us lateralites ever meet up somewhere I promise you all a rendition of the "Old Woman From Wexford"

Irish folk songs contain endless lateral puzzle scenarios most of them pretty silly . And no Eggs & Marrowbone do NOT make you blind.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 2921
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Posted on Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 2:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I grew up listening to the Irish Rovers, the Clancy Brothers with Tommy Makem (RIP) and the Battlefield Band. Funny how so many of my favorite songs are about Irish religious strife, when I'm Jewish. My dad has a theory that someone in our family line stopped over in Dublin on their way to America.

If you're planning to be in Scotland this August I'd love to meet you for lunch, 'cos I'm heading to the Edinburgh Tattoo and am hoping to visit a whole bunch of pubs for the music!
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 7:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you for another great puzzle, Jenburdoo!

I am glad I guessed the text more or less correctly. I must confess I love Irish and Scottish folksongs but now when I have little kids I have a problem. Whatever I try to sing to them makes them cry. Just look at the topics: woman kills her husband, mother kills her child and hangs herself, a lover wants to kill a girl but she deceives him and kills him instead... mayhem and buckets of blood put on irresistible music.

Do you happen to know an Irish/Scottish folksong NOT to make my babies cry?

(I still LOVE them, though.)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pick romance/courting songs (recruiting songs work well too). My Dad sang "I'll Give To You a Paper of Pins" to my brother when he was a baby. I've also used for lullabies Gallant Forty-Twa and a few other songs - Bonny Barbry-O (a variant of Maid of Fife where no one dies), Peggy/Mary and the Soldier, Cruel War (without the last verse), Lass of Glencoe (NOT about the massacre), and Enniskillen Dragoons.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You could try one of my favs which is Finnegan's Wake. It's a comedy story and although the protagonist dies in the second verse we find out in the final verse that despite all his friends assembling for his wake he is not dead at all.

If you want a nice romantic one where nobody dies you could do worse than get a copy of Dainty Davey which is a Robbie Burns composition . It tells the story of a man on the run from a bunch of Dragoons who makes good use of his time by taking refuge in a young ladies bedroom. I'd recommend you listen to Luke Kelly's (Singer of the Dubliners) version . It's absolutely georgous and not in the least bit tear inducing.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, June 18, 2010 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forgot to say . More Celtic Folk song puzzles please.

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