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Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2370
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the eve of Val's first competition, her coach put his arm around her shoulders and said: "You have practised a lot, you have the necessary technique and stamina, and if you are determined enough, you have almost no limits. However, please be aware there is one goal you will never achieve, no matter how hard you try."

What was the goal, and why?
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Post Number: 224
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Val's sport relevant?
Swimming? Gymnastics? Tennis?
Is it a team sport?
Is it an outdoor sport?

Is it a goal others have achieved?
Is it a goal others in her sport have achieved?
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Post Number: 225
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And when I say "sport" I do mean "competition", in case we're dealing with iffy definitions of sport.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does her goal involve winning a competition for another gender (i.e. Men's tennis)? Can she not achieve it because she's already competed once?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Val's sport relevant? Yes
Swimming? Gymnastics? Tennis? None of these
Is it a team sport? You can compete both as an individual and in a team
Is it an outdoor sport? No

Is it a goal others have achieved? Yes
Is it a goal others in her sport have achieved? Assume no

And when I say "sport" I do mean "competition", in case we're dealing with iffy definitions of sport. OK.

Does her goal involve winning a competition for another gender (i.e. Men's tennis)? No Can she not achieve it because she's already competed once? No
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Post Number: 226
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an Olympic event?
Can you compete in an ordinary gym?
Is water involved?
Is a ball involved?
Is something held in the hands during the competition (racket, stick, etc.)?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 466
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a physical competition? (Like baseball) Intellectual? (Like debate team)
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an Olympic event? Yep
Can you compete in an ordinary gym? Yes, with some necessary modifications
Is water involved? No
Is a ball involved? No
Is something held in the hands during the competition (racket, stick, etc.)? Yes

Is this a physical competition? (Like baseball) Yes Intellectual? (Like debate team) You do have to use your intellect a lot, but let us assume it is rather physical
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Summer Olympics? Winter?

Is it gymnastics?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2374
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Summer Olympics? This Winter?

Is it gymnastics? No
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a winter event?
Summer event?
Fencing? Shooting? Weightlifting? Archery?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 470
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, quick summary:

Val's event is a Summer Olympic event that can be individual or team. It is played indoors, but neither water nor a ball is involved. You hold something when playing it. Is this right?

Random and probably wrong guess: fencing?

Is Val's height involved? Weight?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2377
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a winter event?
Summer event?
Fencing? This Shooting? Weightlifting? Archery?

So, quick summary:

Val's event is a Summer Olympic event that can be individual or team. It is played indoors, but neither water nor a ball is involved. You hold something when playing it. Is this right? Absolutely.

Random and probably wrong guess: fencing? Random and definitely correct guess: yes.

Is Val's height involved? Weight? Neither
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow. I had no idea there was such a thing as team fencing, that's why I thought I was wrong.

Does her goal involve the amount of points scored? Placement of hits? Which sword she uses?
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the goal fame?
I assume the fact that their faces are covered certainly doesn't help with that...
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the unachievable goal related to a record? Related to one action or skill within the sport? Related to the score?

Could anyone in Val's sport achieve this goal? Is it something they would even shoot for? Would it ever be something achievable? Is the goal more involved with semantics than actual action, like "to be the best ________ player ever" or "to do better than I did yesterday"?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her goal an individual goal? Team goal?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2378
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow. I had no idea there was such a thing as team fencing, that's why I thought I was wrong. There is indeed :-))

Does her goal involve the amount of points scored? Noish Placement of hits? No Which sword she uses? No

Is the goal fame? No
I assume the fact that their faces are covered certainly doesn't help with that...It doesn't; however, they have plenty of time in-between matches with their masks off :-))

Is the unachievable goal related to a record? No Related to one action or skill within the sport? No Related to the score? Yesish

Could anyone in Val's sport achieve this goal? No Is it something they would even shoot for? No Would it ever be something achievable? It would be achievable if certain circumstances are changed Is the goal more involved with semantics than actual action, like "to be the best ________ player ever" or "to do better than I did yesterday"? No

Is her goal an individual goal? Team goal? Can be both
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the nature of the scoring system relevant?
The length of the matches?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2379
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the nature of the scoring system relevant? Yes (if I understand well what you mean)
The length of the matches? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it possible for there to be a shutout in fencing? Is this her goal?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it possible for there to be a shutout in fencing? You mean whether you can win a match without scoring? If so, yes, there is Is this her goal? No

HINT: You do not need to have special knowledge as to the fencing technique to figure this out
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant, is it possible to win without the other team scoring?

So a fencing technique is involved? Does it involve the boundary lines? Any fancy moves? Killing a zombie with a fencing sword?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could this be an achievable goal in another sport? Could it be similarly unachievable in another sport? Would you need to learn or know anything about fencing to solve this puzzle?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant, is it possible to win without the other team scoring? Yes, but irrelevant in our case.

So a fencing technique is involved? No; sorry if I've misled you Does it involve the boundary lines? Any fancy moves? No to both Killing a zombie with a fencing sword? Well, that would be ANOTHER inachievable goal; the first one is yet to be found :-))

Could this be an achievable goal in another sport? It is perfectly achievable in most sports Could it be similarly unachievable in another sport? In theory, yes Would you need to learn or know anything about fencing to solve this puzzle? Yes, there is one relevant thing you would need to know, but I think you do not need any highly specialized information to work it out
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve the amount of equipment worn when fencing? The method of scoring?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a winning or losing streak relevant? Some sort of high score? Is her nationality relevant? Race? Gender? Age?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve the amount of equipment worn when fencing? No The method of scoring? If you mean the scoring mechanism and/or equipment, than No

Is a winning or losing streak relevant? Yesish Some sort of high score? Could you please specify this? Is her nationality relevant? Race? Gender? Age? Neither
It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it related to scoring within a single game?
A series of games?
A tournament?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Monday, June 07, 2010 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is odd / even scores relevant? Half-points?
Jumpingjack (Jumpingjack)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a score 'ceiling'?

Don't know much about fencing at all, but I'm hoping to take it up one day!
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 12:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does fencing have a maximum possible high score? Which has already been reached? So it's impossible to set a new high score?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2010 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a certain scoreline that is impossible to achieve, for example if one player had to win by 3 clear points a score of 17-18 would be impossible.?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Friday, June 11, 2010 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it related to scoring within a single game? No
A series of games? No
A tournament? Yes

Is odd / even scores relevant? Half-points? No to all

Is there a score 'ceiling'? Yes but irrelevant

Don't know much about fencing at all, but I'm hoping to take it up one day!

A fencing tournament has several rounds. In the first one, fencers are split into groups or "pools" where they fence 4 to 6 fencers in 5-touch bouts, in an "each to each" system. Depending on his/her results within the pool, the fencer is seeded" into a table chart with the other fencers of the tournament. Fencers then fence the opponent they are paired with in a single-elimination bout, usually 15 touches. If they win, they advance in the table chart, if they lose, they are eliminated from the competition. This table chart phase is called direct elimination.



Does fencing have a maximum possible high score? Well, you can score a maximum of 5 hits in a match in the first round, or 15 hits in each of the direct elimination matches but this probably isn't what you meant. And it is irrelevant to the puzzle, anyway.
Which has already been reached? So it's impossible to set a new high score? No

Is there a certain scoreline that is impossible to achieve, for example if one player had to win by 3 clear points a score of 17-18 would be impossible.? Irrelevant
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Friday, June 11, 2010 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and a big BLLOOOPERR.

Val's goal would be inachievable only in individual tournament, but would be achievable in teams.

Sorry for that.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, June 11, 2010 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her goal throughout the tournament? Or only in one particular tournament game?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her goal throughout the tournament? This-ish Or only in one particular tournament game?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would her goal be in the "pool" part of the tournament? The single-elimination round? Both?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would her goal be in the "pool" part of the tournament? No The single-elimination round? Yope Both?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Specific opponent relevant? Specific sword relevant? Referee relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Specific opponent relevant? Specific sword relevant? Referee relevant? Neither
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 12, 2010 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her goal related to the tournament format? Her seeding?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 7:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her goal related to the tournament format? Yes Her seeding? I'd say yesish to yope

HINT: It is related to the results of the tournament as such.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve cumulative points? Lowest seed/Highest seed?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve cumulative points? No Lowest seed/Highest seed? After a second thought, not really
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Number of participants relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Number of participants relevant? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 4:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the goal be in one particular tournament game? Over the whole elimination round? The semi-finals? Finals?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the goal be in one particular tournament game? Over the whole elimination round? The semi-finals? This is closest but beware a FA Finals?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her goal related to advancement in the tournament? Is Vera's goal related to a tournament she's in?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her goal related to advancement in the tournament? No, rather to the overall results Is Vera's goal related to a tournament she's in? It is related to any tournament
Balin (Balin)
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Is her goal about finishing first? Second? Third? Fourth? Placement related to where one ended up losing in the tournament?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her goal about finishing first? Second? Third? Fourth? This Placement related to where one ended up losing in the tournament? Now tell me why and I will spoyle
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In a single elimination tournament, is placement by points? For instance, could the person who loses in the final round finish fourth?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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In a single elimination tournament, is placement by points? No, it is on a win-lose basis For instance, could the person who loses in the final round finish fourth? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Val want to finish fourth? And finishing fourth would require making the semifinals, right? Maybe she wants to finish fourth without making the semis?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Val want to finish fourth? Yes! And finishing fourth would require making the semifinals, right? Umm.. I am hesitating between Yope and No here Maybe she wants to finish fourth without making the semis? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 9:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a specific reason she wants to finish fourth, rather than 1st/2nd/3rd? Relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2418
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a specific reason she wants to finish fourth, rather than 1st/2nd/3rd? No -let's say it's just her caprice. Relevant? Just for the purposes of this puzzle.

Now - WHY is this goal not achievable for Val?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 874
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there only 3 people in this tournament? So she can't finish lower than 3rd?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there only 3 people in this tournament? So she can't finish lower than 3rd? Very good idea - but no, this is not the reason
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 878
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the tournament going on when the coach says this to Val? Is it possible for Val to finish 1st? 2nd? 3rd? 5th? 6th? 7th? 8th?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2421
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the tournament going on when the coach says this to Val? Irr Is it possible for Val to finish 1st? 2nd? 3rd? 5th? 6th? 7th? 8th? Yes to all
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the tournament mixed-gender? Genders relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2422
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the tournament mixed-gender? Genders relevant?Irrelevant to both
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 883
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Val's goal is to finish 4th in a single-elimination fencing tournament, right?

Reason related to Val's size? Height? Weight? Age?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 884
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooh, thought: The two people who lose in the semi-finals will finish 3rd and 4th, right? So if Val loses in the semis, she will always finish 3rd?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 2423
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Val's goal is to finish 4th in a single-elimination fencing tournament, right? Right

Reason related to Val's size? Height? Weight? Age? Neither

Ooh, thought: The two people who lose in the semi-finals will finish 3rd and 4th, right? No So if Val loses in the semis, she will always finish 3rd? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 887
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could someone lose in the semis and finish 2nd? 5th? 4th (not counting Val)?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could someone lose in the semis and finish 2nd? No; that would be if you lose in the final 5th? No; that would be before the semis, if we suppose the semifinal as two matches between the four best-ranking fencers 4th (not counting Val)? No
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 889
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Posted on Monday, June 14, 2010 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there even a 4th place? Or is it just 1st/2nd/3rd? Is there a "bronze medal match"?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 2427
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there even a 4th place? No, there isn't. Or is it just 1st/2nd/3rd? Yes, and that's the gist of it. Is there a "bronze medal match"? No, and here goes the


*******************SPOILER*******************

In the second round of a fencing tournament, the competitors are seeded according to their results in the first round (the "pools") in what is called the "direct elimination" This means that if there are eg. 50 competitors overall, the first 32 go to the elimination, for the rest, the competition is over.

In the elimination, the best competitor (No 1) is seeded against the worst one (No 32), then No 2 against No 31 and so on. Whoever wins the match, goes further, and so on until the semifinals, where No 1 competes against No 4, and No 2 against No 3.

The winners go to the finals and compete for gold and silver, the losers do not compete against each other anymore and they both receive the bronze medal. So in an individual fencing tournament, the ranking goes 1st place, 2nd place, two 3rd places, 5th place and so on.

Thank you all for participating, and Balin for the final touché.

Actually, I meant this puzzle as a little tribute to Val(entina) Vezzali, one of the best foil fencers ever - five times gold medalist at the Olympics, eleven times World Champion gold medalist and six times European gold winner.

Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 965
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ach, of course!

It's always the simplest puzzles that take longest - I was guessing all over the place, and, of course, the answer was that simple.

Excellent puzzle - I didn't know that about fencing. Very interesting rule - I wonder why they don't have a bronze medal match? And how do you finish fourth in team fencing?

Anyway, another great puzzle, Alhucema!
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Username: Alhucema

Post Number: 2433
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Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you very much, Balin. I am happy you like my puzzles :-)).

In fact, I do not know why the fencers do not compete for the third place, but it is so in all the competitions I know of, including the Olympics.

It is better for you, though, as when you get through to the semifinals, you know you will get a medal anyway.

The teams just do one more match between the losers of the semifinals as a fence-off for the third place.

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