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Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 771
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm afraid more of them worked for the villains.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1323
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Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they guilty of:

Murder? Blackmail? Kidnapping? Drug-related crime? Embezzling? Arms dealing? Smuggling? Human trafficking? People smuggling? Other crime?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 773
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Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they guilty of:

This is very difficult to answer. They didn't personally commit a crime. The acts they were involved in weren't generally considered as criminal or immoral. This did change, so the general opinion today would be (for the acts they were involved in):

Murder? Yes. Blackmail? May have played a role in certain cases. Kidnapping? Something alike Drug-related crime? Embezzling? Arms dealing? Smuggling? Human trafficking? People smuggling? Other crime? Yes. No to others.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1328
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Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this occur in [LTPF list of centuries]? On [LTPF list of continents]?

The villains = HAM? HAF? Mixed?

"Them" = the victims? HAM? HAF? Mixed?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 775
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Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this occur in [LTPF list of centuries]? Mostly 16th and 17th. On [LTPF list of continents]? Europe.

The villains = HAM? Almost all of them. HAF? Maybe a few. Mixed?

"Them" = the victims? Rephrase. HAM? HAF? This. Mixed?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1330
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Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "them" the "innocent victims" in the title?

Is prostitution involved? The sex trade?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 777
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Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2010 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "them" the "innocent victims" in the title? Yes.

Is prostitution involved? No. The sex trade? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 1336
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the "victims" dead now? Is the mob involved? Were the victims married to the villains?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 779
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correction to my last answer. The answer to the question

Is "them" the "innocent victims" in the title?

should be: Yesish. Beware of FA. Explore.

Are the "victims" dead now? Yes. Is the mob involved? Mobs play a certain role in the general picture but not a central one. Were the victims married to the villains? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 2170
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the victims: killed? Tortured? Terrorized? Hunted? Injured? Deprived of something? Forced to do something?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 781
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the victims: killed? Tortured? Terrorized? Hunted? Injured? Deprived of something? Forced to do something? Yes for all although not everything for every single victim.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, June 24, 2010 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the country relevant? If so, [LTPF list of European countries]?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 786
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the country relevant? If so, [LTPF list of European countries]? Many countries are relevant, but mostly today's Germany, Switzerland, France, Poland and Netherlands.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Witch hunts/witch burning relevant? Innocent victims = witches? Villains: church/inquisition?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 788
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Witch hunts/witch burning relevant? Yes. Innocent victims = witches? Being an innocent victim means being persecuted as a witch. for Villains: church/inquisition? The persecutors (many of them secular authorities).
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the puzzle statement can now be read as "I'm afraid some of the accused witches worked for the witch hunters"? Does this mean that the witch hunters hired plants to be fake executed for witchcraft?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the puzzle statement can now be read as "I'm afraid some of the accused witches worked for the witch hunters"? No. It's more complicated due to the nature of the scrund. Does this mean that the witch hunters hired plants to be fake executed for witchcraft? No.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay. Looking back, "them" is only yesishly referring to the victims, whom we have now established are the accused witches. But "the villains" unambiguously refers to witch hunters? Is "them" some subset of accused witches? Accused witches, plus others?

"Worked for" in what way: did they perform some service of value to the villains? In exchange for payment? (monetary? some valuable good? an equivalent service? immunity from accusation?) Intentionally? Willingly?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 791
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay. Looking back, "them" is only yesishly referring to the victims, whom we have now established are the accused witches. But "the villains" unambiguously refers to witch hunters? Yes. Is "them" some subset of accused witches? No. Accused witches, plus others? No. A subset of accused witches, plus others.

"Worked for" in what way: did they perform some service of value to the villains? Yes. In exchange for payment? Yes. (monetary? Normally this. some valuable good? an equivalent service? immunity from accusation?) Intentionally? They knew what they did. Willingly? Possibly.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they confess? Fake symptoms? To show that there "really was" a witch epidemic?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they confess? Fake symptoms? To show that there "really was" a witch epidemic? No to all, possible FA.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the "victims" include the families of the accused witchers? Of the accusers?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the "victims" include the families of the accused witchers? Of the accusers? No or irrelevant.

To prevent FAs: "They" are not a group which is defined by their involvment in witch hunts. "They" existed before, and "they" still exist today.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "they" a particular religious group? Race? Residents of a country?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "they" a particular religious group? Race? Residents of a country? No to all.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the "victims" those of a particular age? Gender?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the "victims" those of a particular age? Gender?

If you want to differentiate between "they" and "victims", please be very, very specific (or maybe rather lateral). "They" consist of female adults in the time of the witch hunts and of adults, most of them female, today.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, June 28, 2010 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the innocent victims accused witches? Who came to believe, via torture-induced constructed memories, that they really were witches?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2010 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the innocent victims accused witches? Yes, but be cautious because of the nature of the scrund. Who came to believe, via torture-induced constructed memories, that they really were witches? No.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2010 - 3:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the villains accusers? Victims who turned in their friends and families to the witch-hunters?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2010 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the villains accusers? Yes. Victims who turned in their friends and families to the witch-hunters? No or irrelevant.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 05, 2010 - 2:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was a deal made between the accusers and accused? Did money pass hands?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was a deal made between the accusers and accused? No. Did money pass hands? Yes, but this might be misleading. Remember the group isn't defined by their role in the witch-hunts.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the victims know that they would be accused? Is their sentencing relevant?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the victims know that they would be accused? Some of those accused as witches may have known before they were in danger, some of them not. No difference here between accused witches in general and those belonging to the relevant group. Is their sentencing relevant? Noish.

Hint: The scrund is about the extent to which a certain group of people was persecuted.
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are "they" defined by gender? religion? ethnicity? race? background? family? marital status? social class? nationality? profession? avocation(s)? membership in a club?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are "they" defined by gender? Yesish. religion? ethnicity? race? background? family? marital status? social class? nationality? profession? Yes. avocation(s)? membership in a club? No to the others.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the persons persecuted former persecutors? (Tongue twister alert) Do they work for the government? Have a high-paying job? Or do they actually work for the persecutors?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the persons persecuted former persecutors? Normally not. (Tongue twister alert) Do they work for the government? For some of them you could say so. Have a high-paying job? No. Or do they actually work for the persecutors? Who? Those in fact persecuted? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there are those persecuted, and the persecutors, right? Is there a third group of people involved? Is that the "they"?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there are those persecuted, and the persecutors, right? Yes. Is there a third group of people involved? Yes, the group the scrund is about. Is that the "they"? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group defined by age? Gender? Physical build? Religion? Profession? Geographical location?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group defined by age? They're adults. Gender? Thisish Physical build? Religion? Profession? This. Geographical location? No to rest.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group judges? Lawyers?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 7:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group judges? Lawyers? No to both.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group involved in the trials themselves? In the execution? Is "if you drown, you're innocent, but if you swim, you're a witch" relevant?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group involved in the trials themselves? Some of them yesishly or yopeishly. In the execution? No. Is "if you drown, you're innocent, but if you swim, you're a witch" relevant? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the third group related to the accused witches? The persecutors? Were they acquainted with the accused witches? The persecutors?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the third group related to the accused witches? The persecutors? Were they acquainted with the accused witches? The persecutors? No general answers to these questions are possible. Some of them were related to and/or acquainted with some of the victims and/or some of the persecutors. In many cases, witch-hunts took place in fairly small towns where most people would know each other.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group the town elders? The town government of some sort? Are they of a certain social class?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third group the town elders? No. The town government of some sort? No. Note that "they" were all female. Are they of a certain social class? Insofar as their profession determines their social class.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were "they" teachers? Librarians? Did they work with books?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were "they" teachers? Librarians? Did they work with books? No to all.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did "their" husbands have notable roles in the town? Were they of high class? Middle? Low?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did "their" husbands have notable roles in the town? Normally not. Were they of high class? Middle? This. Low?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were "they" involved in medicine? Were they nurses? Were they in a profession that was hit particularly hard by the witch hunts?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were "they" involved in medicine? Yes. Were they nurses? But no. Were they in a profession that was hit particularly hard by the witch hunts? Yope. This is what the scrund is about.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a specific kind of medicine relevant? If so, is it herbs? Drugs? Is it legal today? Widely used?

Are they doctors? Midwifes?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a specific kind of medicine relevant? Yes, see below. If so, is it herbs? Drugs? Is it legal today? Widely used?

Are they doctors? Midwifes? This.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the midwifes accused of being witches? Did they accuse others? Did they lose business because of the witch hunts? Gain business? Was it not impacted at all?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the midwifes accused of being witches? Some of them, but... Did they accuse others? Some of them, which isn't really relevant but somewhat in contradiction to the scrund. Did they lose business because of the witch hunts? No. Gain business? Yes, by working for the villains. Was it not impacted at all? So it was impacted.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they claim to have witnessed the signs of being a witch in the accused witches at their births? (Does that make sense?) Did they deliver babies for the wives of the villains?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 1:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they claim to have witnessed the signs of being a witch in the accused witches at their births? No. but some (Does that make sense?) Well, "at their births" is a variant I haven't read of, but mdwifes looking for signs of being a witch existed. I have someting else in mind, however. Did they deliver babies for the wives of the villains? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 3:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they have very liberal signs of witch-ness? So that pretty much anything could be translated as "this person is a witch"?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To summarize (confirm if correct): The "villains" were the persecuters. "Them" were the midwives as a class. The victims were a subset of that class and possibly included others that were not midwifes. Now, what's left to explore? The historical context? Who were the other victims? Why some midwives were considered witches while others were not? How did they benefit the villains? Some other thing?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they have very liberal signs of witch-ness? Irrelevant. As I said I have something else in mind than midwifes looking for witch signs. So that pretty much anything could be translated as "this person is a witch"? see above.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2010 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To summarize (confirm if correct): The "villains" were the persecuters. Yes "Them" were the midwives as a class. Yes. The victims were a subset of that class and possibly included others that were not midwifes. No, the victims were those persecuted as witches in general. Some (a few) of them were midwifes, too. Now, what's left to explore? The historical context? Who were the other victims? Why some midwives were considered witches while others were not? How did they benefit the villains? This. What was the most common kind of work midwifes did for the persecutors of witches? Some other thing?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Virginity relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 3:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Checking to see if accused witches had been violated by demons?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they (the midwives) do something related to their profession or something totally different?
Orangeee (Orangeee)
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Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the midwives prosecuted the ones whose predictions of who would turn out to be a witch were allegedly true? Were they prosecuted because they were "seers"?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for having neglected my puzzles for such a long time...

Virginity relevant? Possibly, but only indirectly.

Checking to see if accused witches had been violated by demons? No.

Did they (the midwives) do something related to their profession This. or something totally different?

Were the midwives prosecuted the ones whose predictions of who would turn out to be a witch were allegedly true? No. Were they prosecuted because they were "seers"? No. This idea might be part of the scrund (that midwives were systematically persecuted).
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2010 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice to see you back, Markobr!

Were the midwives ordered to kill certain babies? (Thinking of Exodus 1 here...is it anything like that?)
Thepasch (Thepasch)
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Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could you please recap?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, November 19, 2010 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the midwives ordered to kill certain babies? No.(Thinking of Exodus 1 here...is it anything like that? No.)

Recap (and maybe a bit of a hint): It is often believed that midwifes were systematically persecuted during the European witch hunts in the 16th and 17th century. This is a scrund: Cases which involved midwifes were sometimes spectacular but not remarkably frequent. In fact, the sources mention midwifes more often in another role - namely helping the persecutors of witches by doing something which was related to their profession. It is not about midwifes looking for "witch signs", killing or abducting babies.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pain of birth relevant? Speed of birth? Inducing labor? C-section?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, November 20, 2010 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pain of birth relevant? Speed of birth? Inducing labor? C-section? No to all.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: Think more about the process - in more than one sense.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2010 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The process...of giving birth? Of delivering a baby? Of hunting witches? Of testing to see if someone was a witch?

Can't believe this puzzle has lasted this long without someone quoting Monty Python - "And what do you burn, apart from witches?" / "MORE WITCHES!!"
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2010 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The process...of giving birth? Of delivering a baby? There is a longer process involved... Of hunting witches? There is a shorter process involved... (well, *the* process) Of testing to see if someone was a witch? Not really. The fact that torture was used in the process of testing is relevant, however.

Can't believe this puzzle has lasted this long without someone quoting Monty Python - "And what do you burn, apart from witches?" / "MORE WITCHES!!"

YOPEISH!!!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Monty Python in fact relevant? Or some other parody of witch-burning?
Mimino (Mimino)
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Posted on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the midwife's part in the process to detect whether a woman accused of being a witch was pregnant?
I could imagine that a pregnant woman was not arrested, or at least not tortured.
So, by saying "pregnant" the midwife could postpone the process and give the woman some chance to get free?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, November 29, 2010 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Monty Python in fact relevant? Or some other parody of witch-burning? No to both. My answer was in italics for good reason.

Was the midwife's part in the process to detect whether a woman accused of being a witch was pregnant? YES.
I could imagine that a pregnant woman was not arrested, or at least not tortured. Yes, at least quite often.
So, by saying "pregnant" the midwife could postpone the process and give the woman some chance to get free? Or the other way round. By proving a claim to be pregnant was false, she would ensure the process could continue quickly. Time for a

==SPOILER==

While there are quite few cases of midwifes being persecuted as witches are documented, midwifes examining accused women who claimed to be pregnant are frequently mentioned. The claim was quite common because pregnant women would usually treated better than other prisoners which could mean mitigation or postponment of torture, better conditions of imprisonment or even discharge from prison. Whether there were midwifes who backed wrong claims of pregnancy, I don't know. If they were successful, the files won't show.

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