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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 5507
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Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A law designed to prevent a certain evil may actually be encouraging it. How come?
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this have anything to do with children?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a moral evil? A disease? Is it objectively evil, like murder? Did the legislators make a mistake, or if they were aware of something would they have voted against the law?
Danielm2168 (Danielm2168)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 3:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the punishment not strong enough? Is there a punishment at all? Is somehow the punishment a reward?
Vadron (Vadron)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 7:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The prohibition isn't relevant, is it?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 7:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does this have anything to do with children?yes
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 3301
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Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2010 - 11:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it a moral evil? yesA disease? no Is it objectively evil, like murder? yesDid the legislators make a mistake that depends on your point of view, or if they were aware of something would they have voted against the law?possibly
Danielm2168 (Danielm2168)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 3:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the punishment not strong enough? no Is there a punishment at all? yes Is somehow the punishment a reward? no
Vadron (Vadron)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2010 - 7:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The prohibition isn't relevant, is it? No, assuming that you mean America's prohibition against booze
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the law negative (something is forbidden) or positive (something is required)? Is the wording of the law significant? Is the location relevant? Are adults directly affected by the law? Indirectly? Are children directly affected by the law? Indirectly?

Does the law apply to everyone? Is everyone affected by the law?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, July 16, 2010 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 12:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the law negative (something is forbidden) or positive (something is required)? the former Is the wording of the law significant? noIs the location relevant?Well, not every country has the law Are adults directly affected by the law? Some are, some are notIndirectly? ditto Are children directly affected by the law? Ditto Indirectly? Ditto

Does the law apply to everyone? yes Is everyone affected by the law? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the evil a crime against children? Child abuse? Sexually assaulting a minor? Possession of child pornography?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 5515
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 8:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the evil a crime against children? yesChild abuse? see next answerSexually assaulting a minor? yesPossession of child pornography?no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the law make it easier for the criminal to commit the crime? Does it make it harder to prosecute?

When read literally, is the law targeted at children? Their guardians? Possible criminals? Does it regard punishment? Does it apply to certain times or places? Is it a public law promulgated by a legislature, or an internal regulation that only regards a particular organization?

Is the abuse scandal in the Catholic church relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the law make it easier for the criminal to commit the crime? no Does it make it harder to prosecute? no

When read literally, is the law targeted at children? Their guardians? Possible criminals? Aren't all criminal laws targeted at possible criminals? The law is targeted at everyone Does it regard punishment? yes Does it apply to certain times or places? no Is it a public law promulgated by a legislature, or an internal regulation that only regards a particular organization? the former

Is the abuse scandal in the Catholic church relevant? no
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 2059
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the punishment for sexually abusing a minor lighter than other forms of sexual abuse?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 9:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the punishment for sexually abusing a minor lighter than other forms of sexual abuse? No, but you're ORT (on the right track).
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the length of sentence relevant? Type of prison that offenders are sent to?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 5520
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Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2010 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 2069
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Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2010 - 11:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the length of sentence relevant? noishType of prison that offenders are sent to? ditto
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the possibility of probation relevant? The conditions of probation?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 5522
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 6:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the possibility of probation relevant? no The conditions of probation? no
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 2104
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific trial relevant? Fines? Sex offender registration?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 5524
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 8:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the specific trial relevant? no Fines no Sex offender registration? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the law "encourage" sexually abusing children by "discouraging" from non-sexual child abuse? From sexually abusing those above 18?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the law "encourage" sexually abusing children by "discouraging" from non-sexual child abuse? no but you're ORTFrom sexually abusing those above 18? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the law relate to the circumstances under which a child can be left with an adult? does it relate to background checks on adults interacting with children?
does it relate to what activities a non-family adult can do with a child?
does the law lead to reduced supervision of children?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, July 19, 2010 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
does the law relate to the circumstances under which a child can be left with an adult? no does it relate to background checks on adults interacting with children? no
does it relate to what activities a non-family adult can do with a child?no or noish
does the law lead to reduced supervision of children? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the punishment for non-sexual child abuse relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 12:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the punishment for non-sexual child abuse relevant? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Child pornography IS relevant, but in an unexpected way.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is possession of child pornography relevant? Distribution? Possession by a minor? An adult sharing it with a minor?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 7:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is possession of child pornography relevant? yesDistribution? yesish Possession by a minor? no more than possessing it in general An adult sharing it with a minor? no more than possessing it in general
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the penalty for possessing child porn relevant? Is said penalty lighter than that for sexually abusing a minor? A lot lighter?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 7:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the penalty for possessing child porn relevant? yes Is said penalty lighter than that for sexually abusing a minor? noA lot lighter? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the penalty for possession of child porn is worse than the penalty for sexually abusing a minor? So potential criminals would "be better off" abusing children rather than fantasizing about them?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 8:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So the penalty for possession of child porn is worse than the penalty for sexually abusing a minor? not quite but you're very ORT. There's one more factor involved that you need to figure out. So potential criminals would "be better off" abusing children rather than fantasizing about them? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the law make one of those crimes stricter? Lessen the restrictions?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 9:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the law make one of those crimes stricter? no Lessen the restrictions? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the law about child porn? Child abuse?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 9:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the law about child porn? yesChild abuse? The counter=productive law in the puzzle is specifically about child porn
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the law relate to what photographs can be taken? does it state that one cannot take photographs of other people's children?
does the law relate to written material? visual images? drawn images? photographic images? does it relate to the internet? to websites? to file sharing?
does the law relate to adult porn as well? to buying porn? selling it? creating it?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 9:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
does the law relate to what photographs can be taken? yes does it state that one cannot take photographs of other people's children? no
does the law relate to written material? yes visual images? yes drawn images?yes photographic images? yes does it relate to the internet? yes to websites? yesto file sharing? yes
does the law relate to adult porn as well? no to buying porn? yesselling it? that's not the relevant aspect here creating it? ditto
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the law make it easier to buy child porn? make it cheaper? make it easier to stay anonymous? make it easier to find? make a greater amount available? make it easier to hide it once acquired? easier to dispose of? easier to disguise?

does the law relate to use of credit cards? the buyer's identity?

does the law give the same penalty for having/buying one piece of child porn as having more? so thus encouraging people to acquire more once they have acquired some? (ie hung for a sheep as a lamb?)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 10:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
does the law make it easier to buy child porn? no make it cheaper? no make it easier to stay anonymous? no make it easier to find? no make a greater amount available? nomake it easier to hide it once acquired? no easier to dispose of? no easier to disguise? no

does the law relate to use of credit cards? no the buyer's identity? no

does the law give the same penalty for having/buying one piece of child porn as having more? irrel so thus encouraging people to acquire more once they have acquired some? (ie hung for a sheep as a lamb?) ditto
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the production of child porn relevant? The purchase? The possession?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And happy 1000th post, Kdoc!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Is the production of child porn relevant?no The purchase? yes The possession? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 11:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
And happy 1000th post, Kdoc! Yes--and many happy returns!!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the law give a penalty for purchasing child porn? Increase a penalty? Decrease?

Does the law give a penalty for possessing child porn? Increase? Decrease?

Does the law give a penalty for distributing child porn? Increase? Decrease?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 20, 2010 - 11:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the law give a penalty for purchasing child porn? yesIncrease a penalty? yes Decrease? no

Does the law give a penalty for possessing child porn? yes Increase? no Decrease? no

Does the law give a penalty for distributing child porn? irrel Increase? irrel Decrease? irrel
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the law increases the penalty for purchase and creates one for possession, right? So potential child porn, um, "users" would be more likely to instead abuse kids?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BBLOOOOOOOPERRRRRRALERTTTTTTTTT!!Does the law give a penalty for possessing child porn? yes Increase? no Decrease? noThe answer to "increase?" should be yesBalin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 12:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So the law increases the penalty for purchase and creates one for possession, right? No. See above BLOOOPEWRRRRALERTTTT!!.For both purchase & possessing of child porn, the law creates very severe penalties So potential child porn, um, "users" would be more likely to instead abuse kids? Yes, but you still haven't gotten the reason why, since the punishment for abusing kids is also severe.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 2:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the punishments close in severity? So instead of just purchasing/possessing child porn, criminals would realize that "taking the next step" wouldn't increase their punishment by a whole lot?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 2:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are the punishments close in severity? yes So instead of just purchasing/possessing child porn, criminals would realize that "taking the next step" wouldn't increase their punishment by a whole lot? No--they had a positive reason, related to punishment, for actually molesting children rather than just using or buying child porn
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they be placed in a different prison? Required to take sex offender programs?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 8:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would they be placed in a different prison? no Required to take sex offender programs? irrel
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is length of sentence relevant? Solitary confinement? Security of prison? Conjugal visits? Sex offender registration? Bail? Fines?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is length of sentence relevant? Solitary confinement? Security of prison? Conjugal visits? Sex offender registration? Bail? Fines? All are irrel!!
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2010 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does it relate to whether the perpetrator's name is made public? which type of court they are judged in? what type of publicity they get?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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does it relate to whether the perpetrator's name is made public? nowhich type of court they are judged in? no what type of publicity they get? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 12:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is prison relevant? The trial? Anything that happens after the sentence is complete? Before the sentence takes effect? During the course of the sentence?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 12:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Is prison relevant? yes The trial? yesAnything that happens after the sentence is complete? noBefore the sentence takes effect? yes During the course of the sentence? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 2:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is plea bargaining relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 5:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lawyers relevant? The cost of a trial relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 2:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is plea bargaining relevant? noish
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2010 - 5:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Lawyers relevant? yopeThe cost of a trial relevant? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this to do with whether the perpetrator gets the lawyer paid for him by the government or not? perhaps he does for more serious offences but not for less serious offences?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is this to do with whether the perpetrator gets the lawyer paid for him by the government or not? no perhaps he does for more serious offences but not for less serious offences?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Court-appointed lawyers relevant? Will more lawyers take a case for sexual abusing a child rather than child porn possession? The other way round?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2010 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Court-appointed lawyers relevant? noWill more lawyers take a case for sexual abusing a child rather than child porn possession?I have no idea, but it's not the solutionThe other way round?ditto
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they be less severely punished if they abused children, rather than buying child porn?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 8:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would they be less severely punished if they abused children, rather than buying child porn?noish
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there jail time involved for both crimes? A long sentence?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 8:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is there jail time involved for both crimes? yes A long sentence? yes

HINT: Something really obvious is getting overlooked here!!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are more men likely to be abusers than women?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Are more men likely to be abusers than women? I think so, but it's irrel
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...could you please recap?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Hmmm...could you please recap? Add the following to the puzzle description: Laws mandating extreme sentences for possession of child pornography may actually be promoting the molesting of actual children, even though the punishment for the latter would be at least as harsh.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the punishment only a little worse? So people figure "why not" and molest the kids?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2010 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Is the punishment only a little worse? possiblySo people figure "why not" and molest the kids? No---there's a definite advantage in terms of the criminal justice system for child molesters as compared with possessors of child pornography
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anything after the sentence is complete relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, July 26, 2010 - 12:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is anything after the sentence is complete relevant? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is their identity protected? Are they otherwise protected?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is their identity protected? no Are they otherwise protected? no
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Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In effect, an individual who would have "settled" for child porn would be inclined to go and actually molest a child because of the ramifications of the law, correct?

So though the sentences of both crimes are similar, something about the judicial process gives molesters an "advantage" over child porn possessors.

Is the actual sentencing, i.e. the punishment in the verdict, significantly different in some way, though it is not more "severe"? Or is this an indirect consequence of being labeled a molester rather than a porn viewer? The way fellow prisoners perceive the criminal? The prison authorities? The public?

Parole relevant?

Is it relevant that it is arguable easier to convict a porn viewer than a molester, in terms of evidence?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, July 30, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Posted on Thursday, July 29, 2010 - 8:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
In effect, an individual who would have "settled" for child porn would be inclined to go and actually molest a child because of the ramifications of the law, correct? yes

So though the sentences of both crimes are similar, something about the judicial process gives molesters an "advantage" over child porn possessors. yes

Is the actual sentencing, i.e. the punishment in the verdict, significantly different in some way, though it is not more "severe"? Or is this an indirect consequence of being labeled a molester rather than a porn viewer? The way fellow prisoners perceive the criminal? The prison authorities? The public? no to all

Parole relevant? no

Is it relevant that it is arguable easier to convict a porn viewer than a molester, in terms of evidence? yes

******* SPOILER **************

According to a sociology book I read recently, very harsh sentences for possession of child pornography may actually increase child molestation, because the latter is so much harder to prove than the former that peodphiles might pick the latter instead. This puzzle is another example of how lousy I am at predicting puzzle difficulty--I thought it would be a snap. Will be next one be? Check it out at the bottom of the page.

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