| Author | Message | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5671 Registered: 8-2001 |
People often disagree about what should be done about coma patients, but no one is likely to endorse Noreen's well-meaning suggestion. How come? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2670 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Noreen want coma patients to continue living? To die? Is Noreen's political views relevant? Religious views? Personal beliefs? Does Noreen have a relative in a coma? A friend? Does her suggestion have a different meaning when taken literally? Or would her suggestion simply be implausible? Impossible? Financially irresponsible? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2861 Registered: 9-2009 |
Would doing what she suggests be: counterproductive? Dangerous? Pointless? Deadly? Stupid? Does she have a scrund about comatose people? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5677 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2670 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 4:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does Noreen want coma patients to continue living? noishTo die? yesish Is Noreen's political views relevant? only insofar as they might affect the answer to the previous questions Religious views? ditto Personal beliefs? yes Does Noreen have a relative in a coma? unlikely but possibleA friend? dittoDoes her suggestion have a different meaning when taken literally? see next answer but oneOr would her suggestion simply be implausible? see next answerImpossible?yes Financially irresponsible? no Galfisk (Galfisk) New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2861 Registered: 9-2009 Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 9:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Would doing what she suggests be: counterproductive? it's impossible--see above Dangerous? see previous answer Pointless? see previous answerDeadly? see previous answer Stupid? see previous answer Does she have a scrund about comatose people? yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2691 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is her scrund about the minds of comatose people? Whether they can think? Dream? Is her suggestion related to her scrund? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5679 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2691 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 11:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund about the minds of comatose people? no Whether they can think? no Dream? noIs her suggestion related to her scrund? yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2701 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is her scrund about treatment for the comatose? About their care? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5682 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2701 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 - 11:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund about treatment for the comatose? yesish About their care? yesish | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2704 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does her idea involve having nurses (or other hospital workers) watch the comatose? To see if they wake up? Is her scrund related to how long people can remain comatose? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2887 Registered: 9-2009 |
Waking up from coma relevant? Or dying while in a coma? Relevant how long they have been in a coma? Organ donation relevant? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5685 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2704 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 1:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does her idea involve having nurses (or other hospital workers) watch the comatose? no To see if they wake up? no Is her scrund related to how long people can remain comatose? no Galfisk (Galfisk) New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2887 Registered: 9-2009 Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 10:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Waking up from coma relevant? yesish Or dying while in a coma? yesishRelevant how long they have been in a coma? noOrgan donation relevant? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2746 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is her scrund about a way to figure out whether a coma patient will wake up or not? When they will wake up? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5688 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2746 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 02, 2010 - 9:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund about a way to figure out whether a coma patient will wake up or not? no When they will wake up? no | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2927 Registered: 9-2009 |
Does she think the result of her suggestion will be that they: die? Wake up? Do something else? Does she want to communicate with them? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5689 Registered: 8-2001 |
Galfisk (Galfisk) New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 2927 Registered: 9-2009 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 7:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does she think the result of her suggestion will be that they: die? yes Wake up? no Do something else? noDoes she want to communicate with them? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2829 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did she suggest taking them off life support? Euthanizing them? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5692 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2829 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 7:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did she suggest taking them off life support? yopeEuthanizing them? ditto, but. . . Most issues of end-of-life care are very contentious, but this one is not. Even the most death-loving hospice worker would not endorse Noreen's suggestion. Keep in mind that Noreen has a MAJOR SCRUND. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2831 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is her scrund about whether care can help comatose get better? About the lives of those who were formerly comatose? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5694 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2831 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 8:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund about whether care can help comatose get better? no About the lives of those who were formerly comatose? no | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 910 Registered: 6-2008 |
Is her scrund about the needs of comatose people (food, water, breathing, etc.)? which functions their bodies do or don't retain? their level of responsiveness to stimuli? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5696 Registered: 8-2001 |
Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 8:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2831 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 8:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund about whether care can help comatose get better? no About the lives of those who were formerly comatose? no Biograd (Biograd) New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 910 Registered: 6-2008 Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 - 10:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund about the needs of comatose people (food, water, breathing, etc.)? no which functions their bodies do or don't retain? notheir level of responsiveness to stimuli? no | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2010 |
Is Noreen a child? i. e. would her suggestion be considered childish? Noreen is human, right? So after her idea is supposedly carried out, would the person be dead: due to an accident? intentionally? From: disease? pulling the plug? blunt injury? If not, LTPF list of causes of death. Or does it not matter? Does she want the comatose person to die? If so, because: it's hopeless for him/her? he/she is annoying/boring in the coma? Noreen hates him/her? other? If this were possible, would a mad, murderous rival be likely to do this to the comatose person? This is impossible because of: lack of resources? lack of money? something that Noreen believes but doesn't actually exist (e. g. Santa)? Wild guesses as to her suggestion: -haul the person to heaven and wake him/her up there? -pull out the person's teeth so the tooth fairy funds the person's recovery? -remove the lamb's blood from the hospital door so the Angel of Death comes? (see Exodus 12) -extract the person's soul? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5703 Registered: 8-2001 |
Whirligig (Whirligig) New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 5:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is Noreen a child? the real Noreen was a teenager{i. e. would her suggestion be considered childish? yope Noreen is human, right? yes So after her idea is supposedly carried out, would the person be dead: due to an accident? intentionally? From: disease? pulling the plug? blunt injury?See above: her suggestion is IMPOSSIBLE to carry out! If not, LTPF list of causes of death. Or does it not matter? Does she want the comatose person to die? yesIf so, because: it's hopeless for him/her? yes he/she is annoying/boring in the coma? noNoreen hates him/her? other? no If this were possible, would a mad, murderous rival be likely to do this to the comatose person? yes This is impossible because of: lack of resources? nolack of money? no something that Noreen believes but doesn't actually exist (e. g. Santa)? yes, but not Santa Wild guesses as to her suggestion: -haul the person to heaven and wake him/her up there? no -pull out the person's teeth so the tooth fairy funds the person's recovery? no -remove the lamb's blood from the hospital door so the Angel of Death comes? (see Exodus 12) no -extract the person's soul? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2845 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is her scrund that it is hopeless for coma patients? When in fact it's not? (I read a case about a guy who woke up after a 10-year coma.) | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2010 |
With the causes of death, by "supposedly carried out" I meant "if it were possible and it were carried out." Are any of the following relevant: Santa? Tooth fairy? Easter Bunny? Leprechauns? Some kind of legend? Myth? Any fiction? The kind of thing that parents teach their kids that isn't true? (e. g. storks, etc.) Is religion relevant? Could any teen believe this? Or is it something about Noreen that makes her scrund-prone? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5704 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2845 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 7:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund that it is hopeless for coma patients? no When in fact it's not? (I read a case about a guy who woke up after a 10-year coma.) This scrund serves the inrterests of the cost cutters who want to pull the plug on coma patients, but Noreen's scrund has no political overtoines & is MUCH MORE PECULIAR. Whirligig (Whirligig) New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 7:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) With the causes of death, by "supposedly carried out" I meant "if it were possible and it were carried out."Then the patients would die from pulling the plug Are any of the following relevant: Santa? Tooth fairy? Easter Bunny? Leprechauns? Some kind of legend? Myth? Any fiction? The kind of thing that parents teach their kids that isn't true? (e. g. storks, etc.) Is religion relevant? None of those things is relevbnt Could any teen believe this? yope Or is it something about Noreen that makes her scrund-prone? yesish or yope | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2010 |
Does she want the comatose person to die? yesIf so, because: it's hopeless for him/her? yes Is her scrund that it is hopeless for coma patients? no This seems to conflict. If the scrund that it's hopeless is not "her scrund" (i. e. the really weird one), does she believe it in the first place? The steps involve pulling the plug but are for some reason impossible overall, right? This doesn't have anything to do with the unlucky bed, does it? Does her suggestion involve harvesting the energy produced by coma patients? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5706 Registered: 8-2001 |
Whirligig (Whirligig) New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 8:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does she want the comatose person to die? yesIf so, because: it's hopeless for him/her? yes Is her scrund that it is hopeless for coma patients? no This seems to conflict. If the scrund that it's hopeless is not "her scrund" (i. e. the really weird one), does she believe it in the first place? She believes that coma patients have no chance of recovery, but her suggestion that no one would endorse involves a very peculiar scrund about (HINT) how to pull the plug The steps involve pulling the plug but are for some reason impossible overall, right? yes This doesn't have anything to do with the unlucky bed, does it? no Does her suggestion involve harvesting the energy produced by coma patients? no | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2010 |
Does she take "pulling the plug" literally and suggest pulling it out slowly? Does she think there is a literal plug when there is none? Does her suggestion involves using some other object -- a gun or knife, perhaps? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5707 Registered: 8-2001 |
Whirligig (Whirligig) New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 9:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does she take "pulling the plug" literally and suggest pulling it out slowly? no, but you're more ORT (on the right track) than any earlier questions have been Does she think there is a literal plug when there is none? ditto Does her suggestion involves using some other object -- a gun or knife, perhaps? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2854 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does she want the coma patient to pull the plug? Which is obviously impossible? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5708 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2854 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 9:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does she want the coma patient to pull the plug? no Which is obviously impossible? | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2010 |
Does the coma patient have to do anything besides be in a coma for her plan to work? Do the doctors have to do anything? Relatives? Is there a literal plug? Does "how to pull the plug" mean how to literally pull it? how to kill the person? If possible, would the person die from lack of food? water? failure to breathe? the loss of an involuntary function? the loss/damage of an organ? For example, does she suggest the coma patient be killed by tying a belt around him/her so tight that he/she cannot breathe / his/her heart cannot beat? If the method were possible, would it work on all coma patients? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5709 Registered: 8-2001 |
Whirligig (Whirligig) New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 10:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does the coma patient have to do anything besides be in a coma for her plan to work? Do the doctors have to do anything? Relatives? Doctors or other medical personnel would have to do something Is there a literal plug? irrel Does "how to pull the plug" mean how to literally pull it? irrel how to kill the person? irrel If possible, would the person die from lack of food? water? failure to breathe? the loss of an involuntary function? the loss/damage of an organ?because it's not possible, there's no determinate answer, but failure to breathe might be the best possibility For example, does she suggest the coma patient be killed by tying a belt around him/her so tight that he/she cannot breathe / his/her heart cannot beat? no If the method were possible, would it work on all coma patients? not necessarily | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2010 |
Would it work on all/some/no: males? females? older patients? younger patients? patients with a certain disease/disorder? patients with a certain occupation? patients with a certain opinion? patients with some other special property? Or is it more general? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5710 Registered: 8-2001 |
Whirligig (Whirligig) New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 10:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Would it work on all/some/no: males? females? older patients? younger patients? patients with a certain disease/disorder? patients with a certain occupation? patients with a certain opinion? patients with some other special property? yesish--& no to all others Or is it more general? HINT: Try a different line of questioning: Exactly what is Noreen's scrund? | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1045 Registered: 7-2001 |
is her scrund to do with what is keeping the coma patient alive? | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2010 |
Does it involve: the patient? the doctors? the method of death? Does Noreen fall under the category of people who think euthanasia is wrong? who support it? or neither? does it matter? Does her scrund involve: checking on the comatose patient? making the decision for or against euthanasia? Could a euthanasia supporter have this scrund? A person against euthanasia? A young child? An adult? A person with a comatose relative? A person with a previously comatose relative? A person who has recovered from a coma? Is this a passive scrund? or an active one? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5711 Registered: 8-2001 |
Kdoc (Kdoc) New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1045 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 10:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) is her scrund to do with what is keeping the coma patient alive? yes Whirligig (Whirligig) New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2010 - 10:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does it involve: the patient? yesish the doctors? noish the method of death? yesish Does Noreen fall under the category of people who think euthanasia is wrong? no who support it? yesor neither? nodoes it matter? yes, but this is a totally non-ideological puzzle. As I mentioned earlier, even the most ardent cost-cutter & "death with dignity" enthusiast would not endorse Noreen;s suggestion--unless he also has her purely factual scrund. Does her scrund involve: checking on the comatose patient? no making the decision for or against euthanasia? \b no}Could a euthanasia supporter have this scrund? yes A person against euthanasia? yes A young child? yes An adult? yes, but it's less likely A person with a comatose relative? yes, but it's less likely A person with a previously comatose relative? ditto A person who has recovered from a coma? ditto Is this a passive scrund? or an active one? Could be either, but is more likely active . | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2010 |
Would children be more likely to have this scrund? Do most children have it? At about what age would this scrund be cured? [LTPF list of ages] Does this scrund involve pain? Whether a comatose patient experiences pain? Other feelings such a patient would experience? Would this puzzle work if Noreen were against euthanasia? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5715 Registered: 8-2001 |
Whirligig (Whirligig) New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 40 Registered: 8-2010 Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 8:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Would children be more likely to have this scrund? yesDo most children have it? no At about what age would this scrund be cured? [LTPF list of ages] No particular age, since adults could have it, too, The real Noreen was a college student. Does this scrund involve pain? noWhether a comatose patient experiences pain? no Other feelings such a patient would experience? no Would this puzzle work if Noreen were against euthanasia? no. She could still have the scrund, but she would not make the suggestion. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2875 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do machines keep a coma patient alive? Or are the patients kept alive through normal body functions (excepting their consciousness, of course)? Does her scrund involve this? | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1046 Registered: 7-2001 |
Is the situation something like this... There is a coma patient, the healthcare staff/relatives are saying/thinking 'what a shame, it would better if she just died', and Noreen says,'well why don't you just unplug the ventilator?' or 'why don't you just do X?' or 'why don't you stop doing X?' so she has a scrund about what is keeping the patient alive? does she think the patient is being kept alive through some action of the healthcare staff? action of anyone else? inaction of anyone else? through some inaction of their's? because of a particular machine? because of where the bed is? because of a particular medicine that is being given? any of these relevant to the scrund - the type of healthcare staff? the number? the appearance of HC staff? what they do the the patient? what they say to the patient? the machinery supporting the patient? the ventilator? tubes? feeding of the patient? getting oxygen to the patient? taking blood from the patient? the patient's bed? bedclothes? the cost of healthcare? the other patients? are we right in assuming the setting for this puzzle is a hospital? some sort of ICU or high dependency unit? staffed by professional healthcare staff? relevant? does Noreen's scrund relate to the way the patient is supplied with oxygen? food? fluids? drugs? emotional support? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1788 Registered: 3-2006 |
Does Noreen think that the 'plug' is a part of the human body? Does she suggest replacing the plug with something more watertight? Does she completely misunderstand the meaning of 'plug'? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5719 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2875 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Friday, August 06, 2010 - 10:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Do machines keep a coma patient alive? sometimes yes, sometimes, no Or are the patients kept alive through normal body functions ditto(excepting their consciousness, of course)? Does her scrund involve this? yesish or yope Kdoc (Kdoc) New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1046 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 10:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the situation something like this... There is a coma patient, the healthcare staff/relatives are saying/thinking 'what a shame, it would better if she just died', and Noreen says,'well why don't you just unplug the ventilator?' no or 'why don't you just do X?' yesor 'why don't you stop doing X?'possibly, but the previous formulation is more likely so she has a scrund about what is keeping the patient alive? yes does she think the patient is being kept alive through some action of the healthcare staff? yes action of anyone else? no inaction of anyone else? previous formulation is more likely through some inaction of their's? ditto because of a particular machine? yes because of where the bed is? nobecause of a particular medicine that is being given? no any of these relevant to the scrund - the type of healthcare staff? nothe number? no the appearance of HC staff? no what they do the the patient? yesishwhat they say to the patient? no the machinery supporting the patient? yes the ventilator? no tubes? no feeding of the patient? no getting oxygen to the patient? no taking blood from the patient?no the patient's bed? nobedclothes? nothe cost of healthcare? yesish the other patients? yes are we right in assuming the setting for this puzzle is a hospital? yes some sort of ICU or high dependency unit? yes staffed by professional healthcare staff? yesrelevant? yes does Noreen's scrund relate to the way the patient is supplied with oxygen? possibly food? ditto fluids? dittodrugs? ditto emotional support? No--how do you supply a patient with "emotional support"? | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1051 Registered: 7-2001 |
you supply a patient with emotional support by speaking to them kindly, acknowledging their fears, reasurring them you are trying to help them, explaining what you are doing etc etc Even someone in a coma I believe.. does Noreen's scrund involve the beeping noise that the machines tend to make? the visual displays on the monitors? some other incidental output of the machines?does she think that the patient is somehow affecting the machines? determining what they do? does she think the staff should turn a machine off? on? alter what a machine does? get a different machine? is she mistaking the function of a particular machine? or thinking something is a machine when it isn't? is the relevant machine actually something not involved with life support? a tv? radio? is music relevant? is the relevant machine actually something to do with the other patients? are there other patients nearby? relevant? in comas? relevant? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5721 Registered: 8-2001 |
Kdoc (Kdoc) New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1051 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) you supply a patient with emotional support by speaking to them kindly, acknowledging their fears, reasurring them you are trying to help them, explaining what you are doing etc etc Even someone in a coma I believe.. But can someone in a full coma hear you? does Noreen's scrund involve the beeping noise that the machines tend to make? no the visual displays on the monitors? no some other incidental output of the machines? nodoes she think that the patient is somehow affecting the machines? no determining what they do? no does she think the staff should turn a machine off? yes on? noalter what a machine does? yes get a different machine? no is she mistaking the function of a particular machine? no or thinking something is a machine when it isn't? yes is the relevant machine actually something not involved with life support? yopea tv? noradio? no is music relevant? no is the relevant machine actually something to do with the other patients? yope are there other patients nearby? yes relevant? yes in comas? yesrelevant? yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2950 Registered: 4-2010 |
I think the thought about kind words to coma patients is that the message will get through to their subconscious, encouraging a recovery. I don't know if this works, though, and I've never tried it: never known someone in a coma. Also, you missed Woodworm's questions on a crosspost. Does Noreen think one machine is keeping all the coma patients alive? That one machine is causing all the other machines to run? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5725 Registered: 8-2001 |
Woodworm (Woodworm) New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1788 Registered: 3-2006 Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 9:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does Noreen think that the 'plug' is a part of the human body? no Does she suggest replacing the plug with something more watertight? no Does she completely misunderstand the meaning of 'plug'? no, but you're very ORT | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5726 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2950 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 3:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) I think the thought about kind words to coma patients is that the message will get through to their subconscious, encouraging a recovery. I don't know if this works, though, and I've never tried it: never known someone in a coma. Actually, you may be right, since recent evidence suggests that coma patients may have some perception Also, you missed Woodworm's questions on a crosspost.\bRectified, with my apologies} Does Noreen think one machine is keeping all the coma patients alive? noThat one machine is causing all the other machines to run? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2960 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Noreen thing "plug" = electrical thing which pulls power from the sockets? Is that what it actually means? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5728 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2960 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 7:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does Noreen thing "plug" = electrical thing which pulls power from the sockets? irrelIs that what it actually means? Yes, but the term 'pull the plug' is also often used metaphorically to mean discontinuing life support, regardless of whether electricity is involved (as I gather it would not be in a feeding tube). | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2968 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is a specific piece of life-support equipment relevant? Life-support equipment in general? | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1054 Registered: 7-2001 |
are the patients connected in some way? does she think they are keeping each other alive? that someone else is keeping this patient alive? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5730 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2968 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 7:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is a specific piece of life-support equipment relevant? yesish Life-support equipment in general? no Kdoc (Kdoc) New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1054 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 8:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) are the patients connected in some way? no does she think they are keeping each other alive? no that someone else is keeping this patient alive? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2970 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the piece of equipment a monitor? A tube? Something going into the patient? A power supply? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5731 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2970 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 9:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the piece of equipment a monitor? A tube? Something going into the patient? A power supply? none of those!! Keep in mind thazt I answered 'yesISH' to the question of whether a specific piece of life-support equipment was relevant} | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2973 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is a piece of equipment relevant? Is something used for life-support relevant? Like whatever they send through a feeding tube (i.e. food)? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5733 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2973 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 9:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is a piece of equipment relevant? yope Is something used for life-support relevant?yope Like whatever they send through a feeding tube (i.e. food)? that's not it | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2979 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the relevant thing a tangible item? Something used in a hospital? A person? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5735 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2979 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 3:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the relevant thing a tangible item? noish or yope Something used in a hospital? noish or yopeA person? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2993 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the thing an action? A sound? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5737 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 2993 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 6:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the thing an action? noish or yopeA sound? no | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1057 Registered: 7-2001 |
does noreen's plan include all the coma patients? or just one amongst them? is she referring to the heating? lighting? air conditioning? drug trolley? medical charts? diagnostic instruments? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5739 Registered: 8-2001 |
Kdoc (Kdoc) New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1057 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) does noreen's plan include all the coma patients? no or just one amongst them? no is she referring to the heating? lighting? air conditioning? drug trolley? medical charts? diagnostic instruments? no to all! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3008 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is she referring to a part of the building? A specific room? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5742 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3008 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is she referring to a part of the building? no A specific room? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3059 Registered: 4-2010 |
Would her plan involve killing all of the coma patients at once? Gradually? One after the other? Or just killing one of them? Some? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5745 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3059 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 - 11:43 am: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Would her plan involve killing all of the coma patients at once? noGradually? no One after the other? no Or just killing one of them?probably not Some? probably | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3075 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does her scrund involve a drug at all? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5747 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3075 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Friday, August 13, 2010 - 8:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does her scrund involve a drug at all? no | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3007 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is the brain of the coma patient relevant? Does the machine exist? Is her scrund about the machine? About the human body? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5749 Registered: 8-2001 |
Galfisk (Galfisk) New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3007 Registered: 9-2009 Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 9:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the brain of the coma patient relevant? noishDoes the machine exist? No. GOOOOOOOD QUESTION!! Is her scrund about the machine? yesAbout the human body? noish | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3186 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is her scrund simply that this machine does exist? And she suggests unplugging it? But you can't unplug a machine that doesn't exist? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5750 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3186 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 8:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund simply that this machine does exist? No, her scrund is much moire specific than that And she suggests unplugging it? see previous answer But you can't unplug a machine that doesn't exist? ditto | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3195 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is her scrund about a certain aspect of the fictional machine? How it works? Its function? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5751 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3195 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is her scrund about a certain aspect of the fictional machine? yes How it works?yope Its function? yesish | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3201 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the scrund that this machine is the only thing keeping the patient alive? Is a specific body function relevant? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5752 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3201 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 9:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is the scrund that this machine is the only thing keeping the patient alive? noIs a specific body function relevant? no | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 927 Registered: 6-2008 |
Does this fictional machine take over a normal bodily function (in her "scrunded" imagination)? If so, blood circulation? breathing? "lower" brain functions? liver function? relevant? Is the precise manner of death (e.g. suffocation) following the loss of assistance of this machine (again in her imagination) important? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5753 Registered: 8-2001 |
Biograd (Biograd) New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 927 Registered: 6-2008 Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 8:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Does this fictional machine take over a normal bodily function (in her "scrunded" imagination)?presumablyIf so, blood circulation? irrel breathing? irrel"lower" brain functions? irrel liver function? irrel relevant? Is the precise manner of death (e.g. suffocation) following the loss of assistance of this machine (again in her imagination) important? no | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5755 Registered: 8-2001 |
HINT: There's a question that people often ask about my puzzles that has not yet been asked about this one and should be. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3404 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is any part of Noreen's life related to her scrund? Relevant how she got the scrund? Is her profession relevant? Upbringing? Marital status? Social status? Are you Noreen? If not, is Noreen a real person? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5758 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3404 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Friday, August 20, 2010 - 5:06 pm: Is any part of Noreen's life related to her scrund? yes Relevant how she got the scrund yes Is her profession relevant? some professions are precluded Upbringing? yopeMarital status? noSocial status? yope Are you Noreen? no If not, is Noreen a real person? yes but irrel By the way, there are all good questions but none is the really helpful background question I had in mind when giving my HINT | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3452 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is any relative of Noreen's related to the scrund? Blood relative? Was she taught the scrund as fact? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5762 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3452 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 1:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is any relative of Noreen's related to the scrund?no Blood relative? no Was she taught the scrund as fact? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3482 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is Noreen HAF? Or is she only a child? Is her living situation relevant? Her environment growing up? Did Noreen develop the scrund as a child? Relevant? | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1059 Registered: 7-2001 |
does this happen in the US? relevant which country this is in? Could it be the UK? healthcare system relevant? is Noreen american? relevant? is the language she speaks relevant? is the scrund to do with misunderstaning language? the name of something? t he purpose of something? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5765 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3482 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 8:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is Noreen HAF?The real Noreen is a college student. But she could be a child or adult Or is she only a child? possibly, but she'd have to be old enough to grasp the concepts involved Is her living situation relevant? no Her environment growing up? no Did Noreen develop the scrund as a child? possibly Relevant? no Kdoc (Kdoc) New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1059 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 9:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) does this happen in the US? yesrelevant which country this is in? somewhat Could it be the UK? yes healthcare system relevant? yes is Noreen american? possibly relevant?yesish is the language she speaks relevant? see next answer is the scrund to do with misunderstaning language? YES!!! GOOD QUESTION!!!!!!!the name of something? yesish the purpose of something?yesish | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1061 Registered: 7-2001 |
does she speak English? well? is she mixing up two similar words? ventilation and ventilator? does she suggest they turn the ventilation off? has she heard the name of something and misunderstands it's purpose? is it relevant which language she speaks? is there a relevant translation of a particular word we need to find out? | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1062 Registered: 7-2001 |
is the actual word 'coma' relevant here? does she think it means something else? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5769 Registered: 8-2001 |
Kdoc (Kdoc) New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1061 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 9:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) does she speak English? yes well? see below is she mixing up two similar words? no ventilation and ventilator? no does she suggest they turn the ventilation off?/b{ no} has she heard the name of something and misunderstands it's purpose? yes is it relevant which language she speaks?possibly, although a similar problem could arise in many languages is there a relevant translation of a particular word we need to find out? no Kdoc (Kdoc) New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1062 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Monday, August 23, 2010 - 9:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) is the actual word 'coma' relevant here? yes does she think it means something else? yes ******** SPOILER ************** Did you hear the one about the student who wrote in a term paper, "If a patient is in a coma and has no hope of recovery, the coma should be taken from him and given to someone it has a chance of helping"? This was not one of my students--I wouldn't ridicule my own students publicly, even with their identity masked--but it's supposed to be a true story. This is also another example of what a lousy judge I am of puzzle difficulty--I thought it would be a snap. I hope my next one won't be. Check it out you know where. | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 949 Registered: 6-2008 |
That's funny. Scrundy test answers are always fun to read about. For instance, a student supposedly once wrote on an exam "a myth is a female moth". I'm sure I can recall more if I try, but even if I could now, I'd want to hold some of the more interesting ones for future puzzles... | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 5808 Registered: 8-2001 |
I love your example!! | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 1299 Registered: 10-2008 |
http://funnyexam.com/ |
