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Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3555
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Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My first attempt at an idiomuzzle, a puzzle where the answer is always an idiom (or a proverb, slang phrase, etc.). I am copying the rules of an idiomuzzle from TommyP's "Idiomuzzle 7: Einstein" in the December 2009 archives:

RULES for Idiomuzzles:

-The puzzle statement is presented using
black and green words (and occasionally red).
-The words in
black are only "fillers" to complete the statement, they are of no use more than to separate the green words from each other.
-The
green words are the words to be decoded into the solution idiom. One or more (if adjacent) green words are decoded to one word in the solution.
-
Red words don't need any decoding, they are moved to the solution "as is".
-Decoding the
green words is done by finding "synonyms, near-synonyms or sound-alikes (or sometimes a bit less obviously related connections)" for them - and finding the synonyms is done by standard lateral questions.
-Only "real" lateral questions should be asked - don't ask grammar questions like if the second word should be a noun, how many letters in a word... (but we neither have minus points nor IP bans, so don't be too afraid to ask...
-If nothing else is stated, the words in the solution comes in the same order as in the puzzle statement. (Otherwise, it's an "Idiomuzzle/Scrambled")

PUZZLE STATEMENT:


With the vigor of Caesar's army coming from the North, Bob stirred the batter in a particular spiral manner.
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are particular and spiral different words in the answer?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2010 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are particular and spiral different words in the answer? Yes
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 2:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What about coming and from?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 3:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What about coming and from? Those are one word in the idiom.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 3:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

REVISED PUZZLE STATEMENT (to avoid confusion):

With the vigor of Caesar's army coming from the North, Bob stirred the batter in a particular, perfect spiral.

This should clear things up. Sorry for the confusion.
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the idiom is:

"The [vigor] [coming from] [particular] [spiral]."

Unless it's not a complete sentence, but I won't ask that.

Can we use a thesaurus?

Particular as in specific, special, fussy, or detail?

Spiral: is this a mathematical term? Like a one-to-one function mapping theta to r? (e. g. r = 2 * theta, r = theta ^ 2)
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3567
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 3:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the idiom is:

"The [vigor] [coming from] [particular] [spiral]." Yes - see my revised puzzle statement, and the third rule.

Unless it's not a complete sentence, but I won't ask that. Take a look at some of the other idiomuzzles in the archives for an idea of what to expect.

Can we use a thesaurus? I suppose so, but try to avoid it if you can. If you have to, go ahead.

Particular as in specific, Yope, No to rest special, fussy, or detail?

Spiral: is this a mathematical term? Noish Like a one-to-one function mapping theta to r? (e. g. r = 2 * theta, r = theta ^ 2) Not this
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Comes from - Hails? Originates?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the answer a French phrase? There's one I have in mind.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 12:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Comes from - Hails? No Originates? This is closer, but no

Is the answer a French phrase? There's one I have in mind. It is indeed - please email to confirm.
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I took a look at the past similar puzzles, if I got it right each green word has to be "translated" into a red one, which is a sort of synonym of the green one, right? Let's give it a try...

vigor: strength? energy? force?

spiral: the @ symbol?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I took a look at the past similar puzzles, if I got it right each green word has to be "translated" into a red one, which is a sort of synonym of the green one, right? Correct - see the fifth rule above Let's give it a try...

vigor: strength? energy? force? None of these

spiral: the @ symbol? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Spiral: an object? Symbol? Motion? Geometric figure? Trajectory? Situation? Spiraling out of control relevant? Spiral of violence?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Spiral: an object? This, mainly Symbol? Motion? Geometric figure? Trajectory? Situation? Spiraling out of control relevant? No Spiral of violence? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Spiral: s spiral shaped object? An object including a spiral shape? such as a screw? Or nut? Or snail shell? Or lamp filament? Is it manmade?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Spiral: s spiral shaped object? Yes An object including a spiral shape? such as a screw? Or nut? Or snail shell? Or lamp filament? No to all of these Is it manmade? Yes
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emailed.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Spiral: coil? Spring?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emailed. Exactly right (I just translated the phrase into English) - nice job.

Spiral: coil? Spring? Neither
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to know French? :P

Is the spiral a "flat" spiral shape (like a snail shell), a cylindrical helix (spring), or a conical helix (the spring thingy where you put a battery's - terminal)?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 2:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to know French? :P No - for the purpose of the puzzle, the idiom is translated into English.

Is the spiral a "flat" spiral shape (like a snail shell), a cylindrical helix (spring), This, but not a spring or a conical helix (the spring thingy where you put a battery's - terminal)?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the helix: spiral stairs? A slide? A tube? Archimedes' screw? Bigger than a person? Is it a slinky? Is it metal? Does it rotate? Move?

Vigor: zest? Forceful? Vital? Alive?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Particular: special? uncommon? rare? abnormal?

Vigor: is it intended as physical force, (e.g stamina)? Or is it more an "untouchable" force (e.g. energy)? Or none of the above? :-)

Coming from: being born? generates?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the helix: spiral stairs? Yes!! A slide? A tube? Archimedes' screw? Bigger than a person? Is it a slinky? Is it metal? Does it rotate? Move? See first answer

Vigor: zest? Forceful? Vital? Alive? No, but OTRT

Particular: special? uncommon? rare? abnormal? No to all

Vigor: is it intended as physical force, (e.g stamina)? Or is it more an "untouchable" force (e.g. energy)? This, but not "energy" Or none of the above? :-)

Coming from: being born? generates? Neither, but we now have

With the vigor of Caesar's army coming from the North, Bob stirred the batter in a particular, perfect staircase.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vigor: life?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vigor: life? No
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "step" one of the words?

"Particular": "the"?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "step" one of the words? No

"Particular": "the"? Yes!!! That gives us

With the vigor of Caesar's army coming from the North, Bob stirred the batter in a the, perfect staircase.
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Coming from: of?

Vigor: steps? Some variation of "step"? Some variation of "top"? "high"?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Coming from: of? Yes!!

Vigor: steps? Some variation of "step"? Some variation of "top"? "high"? No to all of these. But we've now got

With the vigor of Caesar's army of the North, Bob stirred the batter in a the, perfect staircase.
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Strength?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 5:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Strength? No but OTRT. "Force" and "zest" were close too.
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

L'esprit de l'escalier?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

L'esprit de l'escalier? Oui!

**********SPOILER**********

Have you ever had a time where you were insulted, and came up with the perfect comeback, but not until you had already left? Well, courtesy of the French, there's a name for that:

The spirit of the staircase

And our completed sentence:

With the spirit of Caesar's army of the North, Bob stirred the batter in a the, perfect staircase.

vigor -> spirit (as in a spirited debate)
coming from -> of (can be from a location or an ancestry, for example)
particular -> the (used to designate a particular, rather than general, object)
spiral -> staircase (spiral stairs)

Excellent work, everyone, most notably the three W's: Woodworm, who figured out the answer right off the bat; Whirligig, who did a vast majority of the legwork; and Woubit, who finished this one off.

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