| Author | Message | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2142 Registered: 1-2001 |
If Cramer had refused Joel's offer, he would still have a job and Joel would have to work even harder. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3585 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Joel offer Cramer a job? Did Cramer quit a previous job? Retire? Get fired? Was he forced to quit? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2144 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Joel offer Cramer a job? No Did Cramer quit a previous job? No Retire? No Get fired? Not exactly, however...Was he forced to quit? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3586 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was he forced to quit because he accepted Joel's offer? Before? After? Did Joel's offer to Cramer include money? Power? Prestige? Fame? The potential for any of those? If so, which? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2145 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was he forced to quit because he accepted Joel's offer? No...but then yes (see next q's) Before? No After? Yes-ish Did Joel's offer to Cramer include money? No Power? No Prestige? No Fame? No The potential for any of those? No If so, which? N/R | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3122 Registered: 9-2009 |
Crime relevant? Illegal substances? Money involved? Did Joel have a job? Were their jobs related? Did Joel make the offer in order to avoid working even harder? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2147 Registered: 1-2001 |
Crime relevant? No Illegal substances? No Money involved? Yes but only to a secondary degree Did Joel have a job? Yes Were their jobs related? Yes Did Joel make the offer in order to avoid working even harder? Yes | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3123 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did Joel offer Cramer to help him (Joel) with his job? In exchange for money? Did they work for the same company? for competing companies? Politics involved? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2148 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Joel offer Cramer to help him (Joel) with his job? No In exchange for money? No Did they work for the same company? Yes for competing companies? No Politics involved? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3590 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were Joel and Cramer co-workers? Was Joel Cramer's boss? The other way round? Did Joel offer Cramer a chance for a promotion? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2149 Registered: 1-2001 |
Were Joel and Cramer co-workers? Yes Was Joel Cramer's boss? No The other way round? No Did Joel offer Cramer a chance for a promotion? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3594 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the offer a give-and-take offer? Did Joel and Cramer work at an office? Depending on the answers to these, I may have a possible early $poyler. | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2150 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the offer a give-and-take offer? No Did Joel and Cramer work at an office? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3596 Registered: 4-2010 |
OK, thus endeth the chance at my potential early $poyler. Relevant Joel and Cramer's position on the corporate ladder? Did the offer include reduction of workload? Any change in workload? Were Joel and Cramer cubicle-dwellers? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2151 Registered: 1-2001 |
Relevant Joel and Cramer's position on the corporate ladder? Yes Did the offer include reduction of workload? No Any change in workload? No Were Joel and Cramer cubicle-dwellers? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3599 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were Joel and Cramer bosses? Upper management? CEOs? Owners? Partners? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2152 Registered: 1-2001 |
Were Joel and Cramer bosses? Upper management? Yes, both CEOs? Probably not this, but...Owners? Partners? Both of these | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3601 Registered: 4-2010 |
So they were very high up in the corporate chain, right? Was the offer illegal? Unethical? Was acceptance of the offer illegal? Unethical? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2153 Registered: 1-2001 |
So they were very high up Yes in the corporate chain, right? Yes but proceed carefully Was the offer illegal? No Unethical? No Was acceptance of the offer illegal? No Unethical? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3604 Registered: 4-2010 |
If Joel and Cramer were in a lower corporate class, could the offer still have been made? Was Cramer forced to quit by Joel? By someone else? Many other someones? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2154 Registered: 1-2001 |
If Joel and Cramer were in a lower corporate class, could the offer still have been made? Not likely Was Cramer forced to quit by Joel? Yes, and...By someone else? Yes, and...Many other someones? Not many more, but others are involved | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3145 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did Joel know Cramer could lose his job when he made the offer? Did he intend it? Did Cramer know? Was the job loss a: certainty? Possibility? Fluke? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2155 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Joel know Cramer could lose his job when he made the offer? Yes, and...Did he intend it? Yes - good q Did Cramer know? No, most likely not Was the job loss a: certainty? No, but certainly a Possibility? Yes Fluke? No | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3147 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did Joel do this in order to avoid having to work even harder? Is he already working hard? Or did he have something personal against Cramer? Was what he did good for the company? Bad? Did Cramer violate some company rule? Did he make his own job redundant? Or was someone else hired to take his place? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2156 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Joel do this in order to avoid having to work even harder? Yes and no, explore this Is he already working hard? Yes - ish Or did he have something personal against Cramer? Safe assumption, yes Was what he did good for the company? Yes (at least he thought so) Bad? Only time will tell Did Cramer violate some company rule? No Did he make his own job redundant? No Or was someone else hired to take his place? Not relevant | ||
| Whirligig (Whirligig)
New member Username: Whirligig Post Number: 177 Registered: 8-2010 |
Are Joel and Cramer each other's competition? Did Joel make his offer so Cramer's company would shut down and Joel would lose a competitor? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2157 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are Joel and Cramer each other's competition? No Did Joel make his offer so Cramer's company would shut down and Joel would lose a competitor? No, they work for the same company | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3151 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the offer to: do additional work? Do different work? Less work? Take time off? Fire people? Hire people? Salaries relevant? Relevant what the company does? Do they make a product? Sell a product? Provide a service? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2158 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the offer to: do additional work? Do different work? Less work? Take time off? Fire people? Hire people? Salaries relevant? None of these Relevant what the company does? Yes Do they make a product? No Sell a product? No, but they do... Provide a service? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3618 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do they deliver something? Provide a service at people's homes? Tech support? Plumbing? Electrician? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2159 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do they deliver something? Provide a service at people's homes? Tech support? Plumbing? Electrician? No to all | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3623 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Joel make the offer so he could do less work? Of a specific nature? In general? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2160 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Joel make the offer so he could do less work?...Of a specific nature? Yes In general? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3628 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the work he wanted to do less of involve Cramer? Was it physical labor? Mental? Did he not want to do the specific work at all? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2163 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did the work he wanted to do less of involve Cramer? Yes Was it physical labor? Yes but only to a very small degree, it was mostly...Mental? This Did he not want to do the specific work at all? Good q - Yes, at one point | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3632 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the work involve computers? Is their job related to academics? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2164 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did the work involve computers? No, not as a main component Is their job related to academics? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3637 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the work involve making something? Testing something? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2166 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did the work involve making something? No Testing something? This is involved in their work but only as a secondary function | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3653 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did their work involve electronics? Is it important what their job was? Or could this work for multiple professions? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2168 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did their work involve electronics? Sometimes, but only secondary Is it important what their job was? Yes Or could this work for multiple professions? Well their job shares at least one common aspect with other jobs in which this kind of situation could occur | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3673 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the work involve food? Other people? Is labor involved? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2169 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did the work involve food? No Other people? Yes Is labor involved? Yes, but of a certain type | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2170 Registered: 1-2001 |
RECAP: So far we know that Cramer and Joel were owners and partners in a business that did not make or sell products, it provides a service (and this is relevant to the puzzle). Food isn't involved, and computers, electronics and testing are involved as secondary functions. Joel's offer to Cramer didn't include money, fame, power or the potential for any of these. Cramer was forced to quit after accepting Joel's offer, which was made in order to keep Joel from working harder (mostly mentally). | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3720 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Cramer actually provide the service personally as part of his job? Did Joel? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2171 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Cramer actually provide the service personally as part of his job? Did Joel? Yes, they both do/did | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3723 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the service done to one person at a time? More than one? Was the service done to an object? Were they mechanics? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2172 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the service done to one person at a time? Yes, and...More than one? In some cases this could have been done Was the service done to an object? No, good q Were they mechanics? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3726 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the service done directly to the person? Medicine relevant? Are they doctors? Do they own a hospital? A clinic? Relevant who they provide the service to? Do they make house calls? Serve the underprivileged? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2174 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the service done directly to the person? Yes, and...Medicine relevant? Yes, and...Are they doctors? Yes Do they own a hospital? No A clinic? Well no, but closer to this than a hospital Relevant who they provide the service to? Yes Do they make house calls? No Serve the underprivileged? No | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2175 Registered: 1-2001 |
And to clarify, medicine is only relevant to discover their profession, which you have done. It really has no further relevance to the solution. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3733 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do they own a doctor's office (like for scheduled appointments)? Do they service athletes? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2177 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do they own a doctor's office (like for scheduled appointments)? Yes Do they service athletes? Possibly but not necessarily | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3738 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do they service children? Adults? Is age the relevant factor? Is gender? Is profession? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2178 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do they service children? Adults? Both Is age the relevant factor? Is gender? Is profession? Relevant to what? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3755 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is there a relevant factor as to whom the doctors serve? If so, is it age? Gender? Profession? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2181 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is there a relevant factor as to whom the doctors serve? Yes If so, is it age? Usually no, but in this puzzle the answer would be yes Gender? Usually no, but in this puzzle the answer would be yes Profession? No These are good q's, thank you for clarifying! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3757 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do they service men? Women? Children? Teens? Adults? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2184 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do they service men? Women? Children? Teens? Adults? All of these - explore further | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 117 Registered: 9-2009 |
Out of the blue: is some kind of racism involved? Did Joel 'offered' his partner a patient and Cramer refused to treat him for some reasons, thus being dismissed by the board? By a governmental authority? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 118 Registered: 9-2009 |
I meant the other way around. Cramer _accepted_ to treat him, against some regulations and was dismissed | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2187 Registered: 1-2001 |
Out of the blue: is some kind of racism involved? No Did Joel 'offered' his partner a patient and Cramer refused to treat him for some reasons, thus being dismissed by the board? By a governmental authority? No, it's nothing of this sort | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3773 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do they service people who are: HAM? HAF? HCM? HCF? HTM? HTF? (T = teen) | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2189 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do they service people who are: HAM? HAF? HCM? HCF? HTM? HTF? (T = teen) Yes to all (there is more to it) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3775 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do they service relatives? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2191 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do they service relatives? They could potentially service anyone, adult or child, male or female, relative, friend, stranger - these aren't the relevant characteristics | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3777 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the relevant characteristic height? Hobby? Education? Upbringing? LTPF users? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2192 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the relevant characteristic height? Hobby? Education? Upbringing? LTPF users? No to these | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 127 Registered: 9-2009 |
The ones serviced: all humans? age relevant? ethnicity? colour of skin? location where they live? profession? particular diseases? (like all being diagnosed with cancer, for example) their medical condition relevant at all? do they share a thing in common? (other than being treated at the same clinic) | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2194 Registered: 1-2001 |
The ones serviced: all humans? Yes age relevant? Usually no, but for the purposes of arriving at the solution then yes ethnicity? colour of skin? location where they live? profession? No to all. Now then...particular diseases? Not exactly but now you're on the right track (like all being diagnosed with cancer, for example) Not this kind of situation but still OTRT their medical condition relevant at all? Yes do they share a thing in common? (other than being treated at the same clinic) YES | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3782 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the common thing a physical attribute? Mental? Eye color? Hair color? Wealth? Same disease? Were they a specialized treatment center? Did the offer involve treating someone without this attribute? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2196 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the common thing a physical attribute? Yes-ish (there's a better term for it than "attribute") Mental? Yes, I'd say so Eye color? Hair color? Wealth? No to these. Now...Same disease? Not disease, but OTRT! Were they a specialized treatment center? YES Did the offer involve treating someone without this attribute? No | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 131 Registered: 9-2009 |
Drugs relevant? Alcohol? Smoking? Abandoned children (irrespective of their current age)? Was they mentally impaired? Mildly (as in anxiety)? Seriously (as in schyzofrenia)? Was their brain damaged (for svv of damaged) or there were other bodily parts? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2199 Registered: 1-2001 |
Drugs relevant? Alcohol? Smoking? Abandoned children (irrespective of their current age)? Was they mentally impaired? No to these, but... Mildly (as in anxiety)? Yes, but this would not have been the primary reason for their visit Seriously (as in schyzofrenia)? No Was their brain damaged (for svv of damaged) No or there were other bodily parts? Hmmm...can you ask this question in another way? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3793 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was there another body part damaged? That they went in for? Leprosy? Would this be considered a disablility? Are they handicapped? Paralyzed? Amputees? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2202 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was there another body part damaged? Yes That they went in for? Yes Leprosy? No, not this type of issue Would this be considered a disablility? In some cases, yes Are they handicapped? Possibly, but something more specific Paralyzed? No, probably not Amputees? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3795 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the damaged body part a limb? Joint? Extremity? Internal organ? External body part? Hands? Fingers? Arms? Toes? Legs? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2204 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the damaged body part a limb? Yes, this is possible Joint? No, not in this office Extremity? Also possible Internal organ? No, not in this office External body part? Sure, this is possible Hands? Fingers? Arms? Toes? Legs? Yes to all of these, any would be possible Now you have discovered that the common thing among people who visit Joel and Cramer is damaged body part(s). There is more to discover about this as it specifically relates to the puzzle, but this is a key discovery. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 134 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was their skin damaged? Like from a fire? A chemical substance? Was it an injury likely to occur at work? At home? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 135 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did it involve plastic surgery? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2206 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was their skin damaged? In some cases, yes Like from a fire? This would be a reason, yes A chemical substance? Also a reason, yes Was it an injury likely to occur at work? At home? Possibly either of these - there is a more relevant cause of injury to discover... | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2207 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did it involve plastic surgery? Yes - good q! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3802 Registered: 4-2010 |
Skin grafting? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2208 Registered: 1-2001 |
Skin grafting? Possibly, but not relevant | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3809 Registered: 4-2010 |
Transplant relevant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2209 Registered: 1-2001 |
Transplant relevant? No You've gotten as specific as you need to about what Joel and Cramer do - they are plastic surgeons, and they service patients with damaged body parts. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3823 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the offer to do plastic surgery on a patient without damaged body parts? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2210 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the offer to do plastic surgery on a patient No without damaged body parts? FA | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 145 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the offer related to their profession? Or was it something entirely different but proved later to have implication on the job? Was the offer something like "I'll do that, don't worry"? Was the reason for which Joel wanted Cramer to go relevant? Was the fact that other people were involved in his dismissal relevant? Did he leave because of: professional failure? fear of losing money? losing respect? Did Cramer accepted the offer without analyzing it with sufficient care? The activity that Joel wanted to get rid of -- is it medical in nature? Or is it some other thing -- like writing reports, for example? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2212 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the offer related to their profession? NO, not at all, it was...something entirely different but proved later to have implication on the job? Exactly! Was the offer something like "I'll do that, don't worry"? No, not this kind of thing Was the reason for which Joel wanted Cramer to go relevant? We have established that Joel has something personal against Cramer, and he thought his actions were good for the company, I think this is sufficient about this topic Was the fact that other people were involved in his dismissal relevant? Yes, and...Did he leave because of: professional failure? Yes - see next answers... fear of losing money? No losing respect? YES, and more than just a fear of this - good q Did Cramer accepted the offer without analyzing it with sufficient care? Yes, safe assumption The activity that Joel wanted to get rid of -- is it medical in nature? No Or is it some other thing Yes, but...-- like writing reports, for example? not this kind of thing, no | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 148 Registered: 9-2009 |
Let me post a recap -- please confirm if correct or flag the wrong assumptions: Joel and Cramer, two plastic surgeons who are partners in the same medical facility, are the subject of this puzzle. Joel has something personal against Cramer and he wants him removed from the company. As such, Joel makes him an offer that lies outside of their profession, knowing that the acceptance of it basically will affect Cramer's professional reputation (discredit him in some way?) and that he will be consequently dismissed / forced to resign. Remaining to solve: what was the particular offer that Joel proposed and Cramer accepted, plus the relation to their job. Should we explore also who the 'other people' were? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2213 Registered: 1-2001 |
Let me post a recap -- please confirm if correct or flag the wrong assumptions: Joel and Cramer, two plastic surgeons who are partners in the same medical facility, are the subject Small FA here of this puzzle. Correct on almost all of it Joel has something personal against Cramer and he wants him removed from the company. Correct As such, Joel makes him an offer that lies outside of their profession, Yes knowing He didn't know for sure... that the acceptance of it basically [will] affect Cramer's professional reputation Almost - this is from an earlier post: Was the job loss a: certainty? No, but certainly a Possibility? Yes (discredit him in some way?) Yes, "discredit" is a very good word to use and that he will be consequently dismissed / forced to resign. Yes - this is nearly all perfect Remaining to solve: what was the particular offer that Joel proposed and Cramer accepted, plus the relation to their job. Should we explore also who the 'other people' were? Yes, and yes | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 149 Registered: 9-2009 |
Other people: patients serviced? authorities? fellow citizens? colleagues? experts in the same profession? Did Joel offer Cramer a thing that apparently (to Cramer) did benefit him (Cramer)? Was he accepting it (the offer) because: he thought it was benefiting him? he thought it was good for his colleague? For the company? He was neutral about it, but anyway he had nothing to do at the moment? Was the offer about (from Joel's perspective): doing something? abstaining from something? Was an object involved (like selling / sharing something)? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3828 Registered: 4-2010 |
The "other people" - relevant how many they were? If so, [LTPF list of integers]? Is another facility involved? Another profession? Was the offer medical at all? Did it make Cramer seem unsafe and unable to practice medicine? Does someone die? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2214 Registered: 1-2001 |
Other people: patients Yes, small FA serviced? No authorities? No fellow citizens? No colleagues? Yes, so therefore...experts in the same profession? Yes Did Joel offer Cramer a thing that apparently (to Cramer) did benefit him (Cramer)? To a minor degree, yes, Cramer may have thought this Was he accepting it (the offer) because: he thought it was benefiting him? Yes, again to a minor degree he may have thought this he thought it was good for his colleague? No For the company? No He was neutral about it, but anyway he had nothing to do at the moment? Actually this is a very good description! Was the offer about (from Joel's perspective): doing something? Yes abstaining from something? NO, not at all! Was an object involved (like selling / sharing something)? YES | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2215 Registered: 1-2001 |
The "other people" - relevant how many they were? If so, [LTPF list of integers]? Yes, it is relative, and there are 2 other people involved Is another facility involved? No Another profession? No Was the offer medical at all? No (see previous post as well) Did it make Cramer seem unsafe and unable to practice medicine? NO, the offer itself did not but you are OTRT! Does someone die? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3832 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the other people HAM? HAF? Related to Joel? Cramer? Other experts in the field? Did the results of the offer make Cramer seem unfit to practice medicine? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2217 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are the other people HAM? Yes HAF? No Related to Joel? Cramer? No to both Other experts in the field? Yes, but only 1 of them is Did the results of the offer make Cramer seem unfit to practice medicine? Yes! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3835 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is Person 2 (the non-expert) relevant to the offer? Can we call him Johann? And can we call the expert Opus? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 152 Registered: 9-2009 |
Were the other people at some kind of a reunion when Joel asked Cramer to perform some kind of a demonstration? -- This is just of the blue, hoping to find a hint :=) | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2220 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is Person 2 (the non-expert) relevant to the offer? Yes, certainly Can we call him Johann? Yes, that is a nice name And can we call the expert Opus? Yes, let's...it's quite dignified HINT: There is a reason that the names Cramer and Joel were chosen. | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2221 Registered: 1-2001 |
Were the other people at some kind of a reunion when Joel asked Cramer to perform some kind of a demonstration? -- This is just of the blue, hoping to find a hint :=) No, not this kind of thing, but the location where the events occurred is relevant | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2222 Registered: 1-2001 |
RECAP: The puzzle involves 4 people - Joel, Cramer and Opus who are all plastic surgeons. There's also a man named Johann involved. Cramer accepts an offer from Joel which, while not at all related to the medial profession, at some point makes Cramer seem unfit to practice medicine. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3838 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the media relevant? Entertainment? My thought at hearing "Cramer" is "Seinfeld," which I've never seen, but here's a guess... Did Joel offer Cramer a guest-starring role on a TV show? But the show made Cramer appear foolish? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2223 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the media relevant? Entertainment? No, neither My thought at hearing "Cramer" is "Seinfeld," which I've never seen, but here's a guess... Did Joel offer Cramer a guest-starring role on a TV show? But the show made Cramer appear foolish? Nothing like this but great idea | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 154 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is the type of location relevant? (indoors? outdoors? public building? private house? park? stadium? street? academy or college establishment? other?).. or the town? country? continent? Local regulations applicable? Could it (conceptually) be in downtown Manhattan as well as in midtown Paris? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2225 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the type of location relevant? (indoors? outdoors? public building? private house? park? stadium? street? academy or college establishment? other?).. Yes, it's an indoor location - don't think too hard about it, it is not hard to guess given the professions of the people involved or the town? country? continent? Local regulations applicable? Could it (conceptually) be in downtown Manhattan as well as in midtown Paris? None of this is relevant | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 156 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was it a conference of some sort? And a patient volunteered to be a guinea pig for an experiment? Was an experiment involved? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2226 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was it a conference of some sort? No, simpler than that - here's a previous post that helps: Did Joel and Cramer work at an office? Yes And a patient Yes... volunteered to be a guinea pig for an experiment? No, not this Was an experiment involved? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3840 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is Johann the patient? Is the location their office? The doctor's office? Is Johann at the office when Joel makes the offer? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2227 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is Johann the patient? Yes Is the location their office? Yes The doctor's office? Yes Is Johann at the office when Joel makes the offer? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3844 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the offer involve Cramer doing something to Johann? For Johann? Cost of the treatment relevant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2229 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does the offer involve Cramer doing something to Johann? No, the offer itself does not For Johann? No Cost of the treatment relevant? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3849 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Cramer end up doing something to Johann? As a result of the offer? Is Johann involved with the offer at all? Is Opus? Is Johann a patient of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2230 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does Cramer end up doing something to Johann? No-ish - good q As a result of the offer? No Is Johann involved with the offer at all? No Is Opus? No Is Johann a patient of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? No, not yet... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3861 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the offer involve taking Johann as a patient? Is the offer work-related? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2231 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does the offer involve taking Johann as a patient? No Is the offer work-related? No, it's not | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3874 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Joel only make the offer to Cramer? Does he make just the one offer? Am I totally OTWT here? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2233 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does Joel only make the offer to Cramer? Yes Does he make just the one offer? Yes Am I totally OTWT here? Not at all - Joel makes an offer only to Cramer, and the offer itself has nothing to do with plastic surgery | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3913 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the offer involve another profession? Johann's profession? If Johann were not a patient, would Joel's deception still work? Can what Joel did be considered deception? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2234 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does the offer involve another profession? No Johann's profession? No If Johann were not a patient, would Joel's deception still work? Good q - no, and see next answer... Can what Joel did be considered deception? No, not deception | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3939 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Joel outright lie? Did he hint at something? Could his actions be compared to those of Iago in Othello (minus the death, of course)? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2235 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Joel outright lie? No Did he hint at something? No Could his actions be compared to those of Iago in Othello (minus the death, of course)? Yes, in a way - while there is no deception involved in the offer itself, it is involved elsewhere (as with your example of Iago) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3967 Registered: 4-2010 |
Had Joel made contact with Johann before this? With Opus? Did the offer involve contact with Johann? With Opus? Could you please recap? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2237 Registered: 1-2001 |
Had Joel made contact with Johann before this? YES, and...With Opus? YES, and...Did the offer involve contact with Johann? With Opus? NO, the offer itself didn't involve either Could you please recap? Gladly... Joel makes contact with Johann and Opus, and later offers something to Cramer. There's nothing deceptive about the offer itself, and Joel doesn't lie when making the offer. Johann is not currently a patient of either Joel, Cramer or Opus. Johann is at the doctors' office when the offer is made to Cramer, and as a result of accepting the offer, Cramer appears unfit as a doctor. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3968 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was Johann once a patient of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? Had Joel made contact with Cramer before the offer? Is any fakery involved? Is Johann in the presence of Joel when he makes the offer to Cramer? The presence of Cramer? Is the offer made in person? By telephone? Letter? E-mail? Text message? Telegraph? Smoke signals? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2239 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was Johann once a patient of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? No, Johann has never been a patient of any of them - good q Had Joel made contact with Cramer before the offer? Yes, but likely only to the extent of everyday business operations Is any fakery involved? Fakery? Well yes, although to most observers it wouldn't seem so - you're OTRT with this idea Is Johann in the presence of Joel when he makes the offer to Cramer? NO - good q The presence of Cramer? NO Is the offer made in person? Yes By telephone? Letter? E-mail? Text message? Telegraph? Smoke signals? So none of these | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3971 Registered: 4-2010 |
Would the offer include Johann's becoming a patient? Of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? Can Johann hear the offer being made? Can Opus? Does the offer include any communication between: Joel and Cramer? Joel and Johann? Joel and Opus? Cramer and Johann? Cramer and Opus? Johann and Opus? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2241 Registered: 1-2001 |
Would the offer include Johann's becoming a patient? No (but read on) Of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? The offer itself does not involve this, but this subject is key to the solution so explore it! Can Johann hear the offer being made? No, and...Can Opus? No, but even if he had heard it he wouldn't have thought anything of it Does the offer include any communication between: Joel and Cramer? Yes, in that Joel makes the offer to Cramer Joel and Johann? The offer itself does not include this, but this idea is involved... Joel and Opus? No Cramer and Johann? No Cramer and Opus? No Johann and Opus? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3974 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the offer involve taking on anyone as a patient? Refusing someone as a patient? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2243 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does the offer involve taking on anyone as a patient? Refusing someone as a patient? The offer itself does not, but as far as the solution you're OTRT! The offer itself has nothing to do with the fact that C and J are doctors, nor anything to do with medicine or the practice of it, nor anything to do with business opertations | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2244 Registered: 1-2001 |
RECAP FROM PREVIOUS POST: Cramer accepted the offer and was mostly neutral about it, he had nothing to do at the moment. The offer was about doing something, not about abstaining from something, and an object was involved. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3977 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the object involved a doctor's instrument? Did it belong to Joel? Cramer? Opus? Johann? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2245 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the object involved a doctor's instrument? No - not only did the offer itself have nothing to do with medical practice, the object also didn't Did it belong to Joel? Cramer? Opus? Technically it would have belonged to one, maybe all, maybe any of them Johann? But it wouldn't have belonged to him, no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3992 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the object money? Did it belong to anyone? Can the object be picked up easily? With one hand? Is it bigger than a bookcase? Toaster? Basketball? Baseball? Golf ball? Is it any of those things? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2246 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the object money? No Did it belong to anyone? Could have belonged to any of them or maybe all of them - ownership of the object is not relevant Can the object be picked up easily? Yes With one hand? Yes Is it bigger than a bookcase? Toaster? Basketball? None of these, but...Baseball? Yes, almost exactly this size if not slightly larger Golf ball? So bigger than this, yes Is it any of those things? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3995 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it edible? A fruit? An orange? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2247 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is it edible? A fruit? An orange? The object itself is not edible, no, but something edible is involved with the object (once again OTRT) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3998 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the object a liquid? Is it used for eating? Drinking? A coffee mug? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2249 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the object a liquid? The object itself, no, but...Is it used for eating? No, not this but...Drinking? Yes, and...A coffee mug? Yes! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4000 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is there any relevant text on the coffee mug? Is the coffee mug used? Given as a gift? Does the offer involve Cramer using the mug? Joel? Johann? Opus? Does using the mug make Cramer seem less professional? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2250 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is there any relevant text on the coffee mug? No, it can be safely assumed that it is unmarked Is the coffee mug used? At some point, yes Given as a gift? No Does the offer involve Cramer using the mug? YES Joel? Johann? Opus? None of these Does using the mug make Cramer seem less professional? YES, but not simply this act, there is more to it... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4001 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does he drink coffee out of the mug? Something else? Juice? Tea? Water? Alcohol? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2252 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does he drink coffee out of the mug? YES Something else? Juice? Tea? Water? Alcohol? No, just coffee (you knew, at some point, that coffee must be involved in the puzzle...didn't you?) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4003 Registered: 4-2010 |
No, I didn't...should I have? Assuming so, how? By the title? Relevant where he is when he drinks the coffee? Is he alone? With Joel? Johann? Opus? Another patient? With others? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2254 Registered: 1-2001 |
No, I didn't...should I have? Assuming so, how? By the title? I'm half-kidding here, I didn't really expect anyone to jump to this connection until this point so I tried to hide some clues in the title and in the statement: "When to say when" - sometimes when getting refills on coffee, you can tell the server that you don't want a full cup and they will tell you to "say when" so they know when to stop pouring Cramer = creamer Joel = Joe (slang for coffee) But like I said, I didn't expect this connection to play a factor. I did, however, partially derive the elements of this puzzle (like the coffee) from my last puzzle about Mr. Doe and the coffee cups. Relevant where he is when he drinks the coffee? Yes Is he alone? NO, he is...With Joel? Johann? Opus? ...with all 3 of these people Another patient? With others? No, when Cramer drinks the coffee he and these 3 others are the only ones present | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4005 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is anyone else drinking coffee? Drinking anything? Are they meeting together? In a bar? Restaurant? If the others are drinking, relative what? Alcohol? Milk? Juice? Tea? Iced tea? Hot chocolate? Are any of them eating anything? All of them? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2256 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is anyone else drinking coffee? Maybe, but no one else that's relevant Drinking anything? Possibly but not relevant Are they meeting together? Yes In a bar? Restaurant? No, the location of where they are has been established If the others are drinking, relative what? Alcohol? Milk? Juice? Tea? Iced tea? Hot chocolate? Are any of them eating anything? All of them? No, safe to assume that it's only Cramer that's drinking anything. No one is eating anything, but even if they were it would not make any difference. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4008 Registered: 4-2010 |
They're at the doctor's office, right? Is Cramer apparently unfit because he's drinking coffee in what's supposed to be a sterile environment? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2257 Registered: 1-2001 |
They're at the doctor's office, right? Correct Is Cramer apparently unfit because he's drinking coffee No, it's not simply because he's drinking the coffee that he appears unfit in what's supposed to be a sterile environment? No, the place where he's drinking isn't required to be sterile | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4010 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is anything he's wearing relevant? Does he spill the coffee? Are they talking about anything relevant? Doing anything relevant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2260 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is anything he's wearing relevant? No Does he spill the coffee? YES...explore! Are they talking about anything relevant? YES Doing anything relevant? Yes, but the previous question is most important | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4012 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are they talking about anything related to their jobs? Something related to Cramer? Joel? Johann? Opus? Are they talking about sports? Cleanliness? Coffee? Religion? Politics? Anything involving a profession? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2262 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are they talking about anything related to their jobs? At one point, yes Something related to Cramer? Joel? Johann? Opus? Yes - related to all 4 of them to a degree, but mostly related to Johann Are they talking about sports? Cleanliness? Coffee? Religion? Politics? Anything involving a profession? Well, the discussion does involve a profession - it's not complicated, considering who they are, where they are, and the common aspect of people that would visit this office (which has already been determined) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4014 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are they discussing people with that skin condition (or whatever that exactly was)? Does Cramer burn himself when he spills the coffee? Making him seem insensitive to the cause? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2264 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are they discussing Yes... people Yes, specifically ??? with that skin condition (or whatever that exactly was)? Yes, and it's relevant! Does Cramer burn himself when he spills the coffee? No, not likely, but... Making him seem insensitive to the cause? YES! You've hit on why Cramer appears unsuitable. The fact that he doesn't get burned when he spills the coffee should help you understand the connection, but you're OTRT so don't quit now! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4018 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he spill it on his skin? Was the coffee hot? Warm? Cool? Had he added cream to the coffee? Was that Joel's offer - simply to add cream? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2269 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he spill it on his skin? Yes Was the coffee hot? Well maybe, but probably just...Warm? Yes Cool? No Had he added cream to the coffee? Doesn't matter Was that Joel's offer - simply to add cream? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4051 Registered: 4-2010 |
They were treating skin burn patients, correct? So it would make Cramer appear insensitive when he does not burn himself with the coffee, correct? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2271 Registered: 1-2001 |
They were treating skin burn patients, correct? No...they are able to treat those kind of patients, but that is not what was going on in this case So it would make Cramer appear insensitive when he does not burn himself with the coffee, correct? Not relevant, OTWT | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2272 Registered: 1-2001 |
These two posts provide some key info: Sept. 3 at 2:15 PM Sept. 7 at 4:44 PM (with regards to Joel and Johann) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4053 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he spill the coffee on his leg? Arm? Torso? Relevant what body part? I'm thinking that the patients they service may have damaged a specific body part, and by spilling the coffee on the same body part, Cramer would seem insensitive to the cause...is this correct? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2275 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he spill the coffee on his leg? Arm? Torso? Possibly any or all of these, read on... Relevant what body part? Yes - if you figure it out you should be able to discover what made Cramer seem so unfit I'm thinking that the patients they service may have damaged a specific body part, That's true for some, but an FA for others - explore! and by spilling the coffee on the same body part, Cramer would seem insensitive to the cause...is this correct? No - there are really two important things about the coffee being spilled. Mostly it doesn't matter where the coffee landed when it spilled, but if you can determine where some of it landed this will lead you to the important aspects. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4060 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he spill the coffee on only himself? On Joel? Johann? Opus? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2278 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he spill the coffee on only himself? Yes, at least most of it (OTRT) On Joel? Johann? Opus? Possible but not likely | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4061 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the coffee land on a limb? Extremety? In his lap? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2280 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did the coffee land on a limb? Extremety? In his lap? Possibly any of these, but not primarily If you can focus on other aspects of the spill it may also help | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4064 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he spill the coffee by knocking over the cup? Accidentally pouring it onto himself when going to drink it? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2284 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he spill the coffee by knocking over the cup? NO - good q! Accidentally pouring it onto himself when going to drink it? No, but another good q (this is a great line of questioning) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4071 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he accidentally spill the coffee? Intentionally? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2288 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he accidentally Yes spill Perhaaaaaaps not the best word, but right idea... the coffee? Yes, it was accidental Intentionally? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4074 Registered: 4-2010 |
Here's some words to use instead of "spill"...do any of the following work: Pour? Dribble? Drip? Drop? Splash? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2290 Registered: 1-2001 |
Here's some words to use instead of "spill"...do any of the following work: Pour? No Dribble? Getting closer with this one... Drip? Somewhat close with this as well... Drop? No Splash? Closer with this also... | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1234 Registered: 11-2003 |
Did all of the coffee that splashed out of the mug land on Cramer? Or did some of it land somewhere else? Did Joel make his offer before? or after Cramer spilled/splashed the coffee? Relevant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2291 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did all of the coffee that splashed out of the mug land on Cramer? Or did some of it land somewhere else? Not relevant, just know that most likely some of it did land on Cramer Did Joel make his offer before? YES or after NO Cramer spilled/splashed the coffee? Relevant? Yes - Joel offers Cramer a mug filled with coffee, and then at a later time Cramer 'spills' coffee There's an exact term for what Cramer did that works better than "spill", but it is a slang term in English that many people may not have heard. There is still another phrase for what he did, though, that conveys the same idea. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4094 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Cramer break the cup when the coffee "spilled"? Did he drop the cup, period, when the coffee spilled? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2294 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Cramer break the cup when the coffee "spilled"? No, nor...Did he drop the cup, period, No, he didn't...when the coffee spilled? Keep going... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4106 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he "upset" the coffee? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2296 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he "upset" the coffee? Can you explain what you mean by this? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3182 Registered: 9-2009 |
When he "spilled" the coffee, was he trying to: pour it? Balance it? Carry it? Not spill it? Stir it? Put something in it? Was he holding it at the moment? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2297 Registered: 1-2001 |
When he "spilled" the coffee, was he trying to: pour it? Balance it? Carry it? None of these, now... Not spill it? Yes, he was trying not to spill it Stir it? Put something in it? No to these Was he holding it at the moment? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4125 Registered: 4-2010 |
Upset the coffee = flip over the coffee cup Was he holding the cup normally? Was he also holding something else? And trying to balance everything? Did he say anything when he spilled the coffee? Did he use an expletive? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2300 Registered: 1-2001 |
Upset the coffee = flip over the coffee cup Ok - no, he didn't do this Was he holding the cup normally? Yes Was he also holding something else? Not relevant And trying to balance everything? No Did he say anything when he spilled the coffee? Say anything? No, but you're OTRT Did he use an expletive? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4137 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he do anything relevant when he spilled the coffee? Did he spill it because his hand shook? He tripped? He fell down? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2302 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he do anything relevant when he spilled the coffee? YES Did he spill it because his hand shook? He tripped? He fell down? Not due to any of these, but the cause of the spill IS relevant! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4142 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Cramer cause the spill? Joel? Johann? Opus? Was Cramer distracted? And thus, the spill? Did he knock over the cup? Did the cup break in his hand? Did the handle snap off? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2303 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Cramer cause the spill? He spilled coffee but was not really the 'cause', read on... Joel? No, but... Johann? Yes! Johann is the main cause of the spill! Opus? No Was Cramer distracted? No, quite the opposite And thus, the spill? No Did he knock over the cup? Did the cup break in his hand? Did the handle snap off? No - HINT: No coffee ever spilled from the cup | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4147 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Cramer drop the cup, with the coffee in it? Was Johann ever holding the cup? Did he make contact with Cramer? Was Cramer extremely focused on not spilling the coffee? So he missed something that Johann did? Said? And that made him seem insensitive to the cause? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2305 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Cramer drop the cup, with the coffee in it? No, not at any time Was Johann ever holding the cup? No Did he make contact with Cramer? Yes, indirectly Was Cramer extremely focused YES...on not spilling the coffee? YES, this is exactly what he was focused on, but "spilling" does not adequately describe what Cramer did not want to do with the coffee... So he missed something that Johann did? NO Said? NO, he DIDN'T miss it! And that made him seem insensitive to the cause? NO Good q's! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4151 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he HEAR something Johann said? Did that change his focus from not spilling the coffee to what Johann said? Did that cause coffee to splash? Out of the cup? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2307 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he HEAR something Johann said? YES Did that change his focus from not spilling the coffee to what Johann said? Yes, you could say that Did that cause coffee to splash? YES, but...Out of the cup? NO, not from the cup! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4153 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the coffee splash into the cup? Did it splash up from the cup, but stayed in the cup? Does the coffee ever leave the cup? Or did coffee splash out from something else? The coffeepot? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2309 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did the coffee splash into the cup? \b[Possibly} Did it splash up from the cup, but stayed in the cup? Possibly Does the coffee ever leave the cup? Maybe, but not the coffee that's relevant Or did coffee splash out from something else? YES, and not someTHING... The coffeepot? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4164 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Cramer spit out coffee? Had he just taken a drink when Johann said something, and Cramer was shocked or something, and spit out the coffee? Did he spit it at Johann? Did THAT make him seem insensitive to the cause? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2310 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Cramer spit out coffee? YES! Had he just taken a drink when Johann said something, YES! and Cramer was shocked Not really...or something, YES, or SOMETHING...and spit out the coffee? Yes Did he spit it at Johann? Maybe, but doesn't really matter Did THAT make him seem insensitive to the cause? YES! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4165 Registered: 4-2010 |
I take it we're almost there... Was Cramer angered? Upset? Laughing? Afraid? Surprised? Thrilled? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2311 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was Cramer angered? Upset? No, not these, he was...Laughing? YES Afraid? Surprised? Thrilled? None of these RECAP AND HINT: The slang term for what Cramer did is SNARF, which includes laughing and some form of "spitting" liquid out (although it is more specific than this). He had just taken a drink when Johann said something which caused the snarf from Cramer, and it is this which made Cramer seem unfit as a doctor. HINT: Almost there, now focus on Joel and Johann and you'll get to the solution! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4171 Registered: 4-2010 |
After nearly 200 posts, I'd hope we're close to the solution.... Would it be better to say Cramer spewed the liquid, rather than spit, in the SNARF definition? What Johann said...did it related to Joel? Cramer? Opus? Himself? Did it related to Cramer's profession? Did it involve Johann as a potential patient? Did Joel tell Johann to say this? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2314 Registered: 1-2001 |
Would it be better to say Cramer spewed the liquid, rather than spit, in the SNARF definition? YES What Johann said...did it related to Joel? Cramer? Opus? No, but to...Himself? YES Did it related to Cramer's profession? No Did it involve Johann as a potential patient? YES! Did Joel tell Johann to say this? YES! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4173 Registered: 4-2010 |
And behind post #200, we have... Did Johann offer to be a patient? Of Cramer's? Instead of Joel's? Opus'? Did Johann tell a story about how he had that skin condition? And the story was so outrageous it made Cramer snarf? Did Johann really have the skin condition? Or was he just pretending? By request of Joel? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2316 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Johann offer to be a patient? Yes, after a little coaxing Of Cramer's? Instead of Joel's? Opus'? Potentially of any of the 3 Did Johann tell a story YES about how he had that skin condition? He did tell a story about his condition, but "skin condition" is mostly FA And the story was so outrageous it made Cramer snarf? YES! Did Johann really have the skin condition? Yes, he really did Or was he just pretending? No, he actually had a condition By request of Joel? YES - you could say that Joel requested that Johann tell the story about his condition, and this caused Cramer to react the way he did. Remember, Joel and Johann had previous contact before the spilling incident. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4176 Registered: 4-2010 |
The "condition" - was it a skin burn? And it was because Johann did something really dumb? What's left to find? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2318 Registered: 1-2001 |
The "condition" - was it a skin burn? No And it was because Johann did something really dumb? NO - the condition that Johann has was not caused by Johann himself! What's left to find? Not much, and in the interest of getting to the end I'll give a helpful recap: Joel talks with Johann, discovers that he has a condition that was not caused by Johann himself, and that he, Opus and Cramer have the ability to treat. Joel has decided that it's best if Cramer leave the practice, at least at this office, so he tells Johann to tell a story which causes Cramer to laugh and spew coffee out of his nose (which is a "snarf"). It is this act by Cramer that causes him to appear unfit to care for patients such as Johann. The 4 men are meeting at the medical office, and Joel "harmlessly" offers Cramer a mug of coffee as they prepare to meet with Johann, a potential patient whom Joel has already talked to. So, the only thing left to discover is what's wrong with Johann, and why would Cramer think it funny? HINT: To simply look at Johann, you wouldn't know anything was wrong. Nearly done... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4178 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is Johann's condition on the skin? Internal? Was the condition caused by Joel? Cramer? Opus? Someone unrelated to the puzzle? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2320 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is Johann's condition on the skin? Not really, it's...Internal? Yes, this Was the condition caused by Joel? Cramer? Opus? Someone unrelated to the puzzle? This - it was caused by another person in the medical field | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4183 Registered: 4-2010 |
Had Johann had an operation? And something went wrong? Did a surgeon leave a medical instrument inside him? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2323 Registered: 1-2001 |
Had Johann had an operation? YES, And something went wrong? YES Did a surgeon leave a medical instrument inside him? No BONUS HINT: If Joel had told Johann's story to Cramer instead of Johann telling it himself, Joel's plan wouldn't have worked. | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2324 Registered: 1-2001 |
BONUS HINT 2: So far all we know about Johann is that he is a HAM (who had a bad medical experience). Finding out just a little more about him will help tremendously. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4189 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is Johann's age relevant? Ethnicity? Is Johann in need of another operation? Was the operation an -ectomy? Bypass surgery? Relevant exactly what it was? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2327 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is Johann's age relevant? He's an adult, that's all that's relevant about that Ethnicity? No Is Johann in need of another operation? Yes Was the operation an -ectomy? Could have been - the important aspect is the area that was operated on Bypass surgery? No, wouldn't have been this type Relevant exactly what it was? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4193 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the operation on his heart? Liver? Stomach? Intestines? Spleen? Gall bladder? Pancreas? Lungs? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2328 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the operation on his heart? Liver? Stomach? Intestines? Spleen? Gall bladder? Pancreas? Lungs? No, it was not on any major organ. BONUS HINT #3: It was only funny because Johann himself told the story - if Opus, Joel, or anyone else had told Johann's story it wouldn't have been nearly as funny to Cramer. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4215 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was there something about Johann's physicality that made the story funny? Did Johann have a deformity? Was he short? Tall? Fat? Slim? Did he have any limbs missing? Was the operation liposuction? Some other weight-loss surgery? Did it leave a scar? Did Johann show Cramer the scar? Was the operation on a limb? Arm? Leg? Hand? Foot? On Johann's head? Microsurgery relevant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2330 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was there something about Johann's physicality that made the story funny? Yes, for sure! Did Johann have a deformity? No Was he short? Tall? Height doesn't matter, but... Fat? No! Slim? Yes, and muscular! Did he have any limbs missing? No Was the operation liposuction? No Some other weight-loss surgery? No Did it leave a scar? Maybe, but not relevant Did Johann show Cramer the scar? Maybe, but that still wouldn't have made Cramer laugh Was the operation on a limb? Arm? Leg? Hand? Foot? None of these On Johann's head? Close! Microsurgery relevant? No HINT: It was so funny because Johann talked about his problem, not just showed Cramer | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4216 Registered: 4-2010 |
Oh Johann's neck? Chest? Did he have a tracheotomy? Which would have made his voice sound odd? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2332 Registered: 1-2001 |
Oh Johann's neck? YES - inside it! Chest? So, no Did he have a tracheotomy? Close - he had surgery on his tonsils/vocal chord area Which would have made his voice sound odd? YES!! FINAL HINT: Johann is a fit, muscular man who has an odd sounding voice now due to prior surgery on his tonsils which resulted in damage to his throat area. Want to guess what the oddity is about his voice, and how Joel could make it something so funny that it would cause Cramer to snarf? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4228 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is his vocal pitch extremely high? Low? I'd think that most people would find it odd if a muscular man had a falsetto tone to his voice.... Did his voice buzz when he spoke? Does he stutter? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2337 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is his vocal pitch extremely high? YES! Low? No, and...I'd think that most people would find it odd if a muscular man had a falsetto tone to his voice....So did Cramer! Did his voice buzz when he spoke? Does he stutter? No, you've got it! And (to everyone's relief), we'll post the... ***** SPOILER ***** Johann had a botched surgery on his tonsils, and as a result his vocal chords were damaged making him only able to speak with a high-pitched falsetto voice. Joel, who wants Cramer out of their practice, meets Johann and thinks of a plan to use him to an advantage. So Joel asks Johann to come in for a consultation, and before Johann meets with the doctors, Joel "innocently" offers Cramer a cup of coffee, which he accepts. In the meeting, Joel directs the questions to Johann knowing that a big man with a little voice will be seen as funny by Cramer (who has a weakness for this - this never came out during questions). The plan works, leading to an embarrassing snarf moment which leads Opus and Joel to agree that, for the good of the office, Cramer should leave. MUCH applause to participants, mostly Balin, for staying with it! I based this on a situation that happened during a TV talk show in which the host interviewed a man with damaged vocal chords who spoke with a falsetto voice - the producers had prompted the host (because they didn't like him) to ask the man about his love life, and as the man started to talk about his high voice making it difficult to talk to women, the host began to laugh uncontrollably, and was fired from the show because of his actions. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4256 Registered: 4-2010 |
Excellent puzzle! Or should I say, excellent puzzle! Just one question - how did Joel not have to work as hard by getting Cramer fired? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2339 Registered: 1-2001 |
Just one question - how did Joel not have to work as hard by getting Cramer fired? Ah, good question - Joel's first plan to get Cramer fired worked like a charm. If it hadn't, he would have had his usual workload plus the mental energy it would take to devise Plan B (and maybe C, and then D...) | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3192 Registered: 9-2009 |
Cool story. One of our pilots have a voice problem because of cancer surgery, fortunately for him he's happily married, and a great guy. |
