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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2142
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If Cramer had refused Joel's offer, he would still have a job and Joel would have to work even harder.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3585
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel offer Cramer a job? Did Cramer quit a previous job? Retire? Get fired? Was he forced to quit?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2144
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel offer Cramer a job? No
Did Cramer quit a previous job? No
Retire? No
Get fired? Not exactly, however...Was he forced to quit? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3586
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he forced to quit because he accepted Joel's offer? Before? After? Did Joel's offer to Cramer include money? Power? Prestige? Fame? The potential for any of those? If so, which?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2145
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he forced to quit because he accepted Joel's offer? No...but then yes (see next q's)
Before? No After? Yes-ish
Did Joel's offer to Cramer include money? No Power? No Prestige? No Fame? No The potential for any of those? No If so, which? N/R
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3122
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Crime relevant? Illegal substances? Money involved? Did Joel have a job? Were their jobs related? Did Joel make the offer in order to avoid working even harder?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2147
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Crime relevant? No
Illegal substances? No
Money involved? Yes but only to a secondary degree
Did Joel have a job? Yes
Were their jobs related? Yes
Did Joel make the offer in order to avoid working even harder? Yes
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3123
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel offer Cramer to help him (Joel) with his job? In exchange for money? Did they work for the same company? for competing companies? Politics involved?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2148
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel offer Cramer to help him (Joel) with his job? No
In exchange for money? No
Did they work for the same company? Yes
for competing companies? No
Politics involved? No
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 3590
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were Joel and Cramer co-workers? Was Joel Cramer's boss? The other way round? Did Joel offer Cramer a chance for a promotion?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2149
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were Joel and Cramer co-workers? Yes
Was Joel Cramer's boss? No
The other way round? No
Did Joel offer Cramer a chance for a promotion? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3594
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the offer a give-and-take offer? Did Joel and Cramer work at an office?

Depending on the answers to these, I may have a possible early $poyler.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2150
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the offer a give-and-take offer? No
Did Joel and Cramer work at an office? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3596
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, thus endeth the chance at my potential early $poyler.

Relevant Joel and Cramer's position on the corporate ladder? Did the offer include reduction of workload? Any change in workload? Were Joel and Cramer cubicle-dwellers?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2151
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant Joel and Cramer's position on the corporate ladder? Yes
Did the offer include reduction of workload? No
Any change in workload? No
Were Joel and Cramer cubicle-dwellers? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3599
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were Joel and Cramer bosses? Upper management? CEOs? Owners? Partners?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2152
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were Joel and Cramer bosses? Upper management? Yes, both
CEOs? Probably not this, but...Owners? Partners? Both of these
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3601
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they were very high up in the corporate chain, right? Was the offer illegal? Unethical? Was acceptance of the offer illegal? Unethical?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2153
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Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they were very high up Yes in the corporate chain, right? Yes but proceed carefully
Was the offer illegal? No Unethical? No Was acceptance of the offer illegal? No Unethical? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3604
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2010 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If Joel and Cramer were in a lower corporate class, could the offer still have been made? Was Cramer forced to quit by Joel? By someone else? Many other someones?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2154
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Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If Joel and Cramer were in a lower corporate class, could the offer still have been made? Not likely
Was Cramer forced to quit by Joel? Yes, and...By someone else? Yes, and...Many other someones? Not many more, but others are involved
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3145
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel know Cramer could lose his job when he made the offer? Did he intend it? Did Cramer know? Was the job loss a: certainty? Possibility? Fluke?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2155
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Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel know Cramer could lose his job when he made the offer? Yes, and...Did he intend it? Yes - good q
Did Cramer know? No, most likely not
Was the job loss a: certainty? No, but certainly a Possibility? Yes
Fluke? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3147
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel do this in order to avoid having to work even harder? Is he already working hard? Or did he have something personal against Cramer? Was what he did good for the company? Bad? Did Cramer violate some company rule? Did he make his own job redundant? Or was someone else hired to take his place?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2156
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Posted on Thursday, August 26, 2010 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel do this in order to avoid having to work even harder? Yes and no, explore this
Is he already working hard? Yes - ish
Or did he have something personal against Cramer? Safe assumption, yes
Was what he did good for the company? Yes (at least he thought so)
Bad? Only time will tell
Did Cramer violate some company rule? No
Did he make his own job redundant? No
Or was someone else hired to take his place? Not relevant
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Post Number: 177
Registered: 8-2010
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Joel and Cramer each other's competition? Did Joel make his offer so Cramer's company would shut down and Joel would lose a competitor?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2157
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 4:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Joel and Cramer each other's competition? No
Did Joel make his offer so Cramer's company would shut down and Joel would lose a competitor? No, they work for the same company
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3151
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 10:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the offer to: do additional work? Do different work? Less work? Take time off? Fire people? Hire people? Salaries relevant? Relevant what the company does? Do they make a product? Sell a product? Provide a service?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2158
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the offer to: do additional work? Do different work? Less work? Take time off? Fire people? Hire people? Salaries relevant? None of these
Relevant what the company does? Yes
Do they make a product? No Sell a product? No, but they do... Provide a service? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3618
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they deliver something? Provide a service at people's homes? Tech support? Plumbing? Electrician?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2159
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they deliver something? Provide a service at people's homes? Tech support? Plumbing? Electrician? No to all
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3623
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel make the offer so he could do less work? Of a specific nature? In general?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2160
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel make the offer so he could do less work?...Of a specific nature? Yes
In general? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3628
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the work he wanted to do less of involve Cramer? Was it physical labor? Mental? Did he not want to do the specific work at all?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2163
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the work he wanted to do less of involve Cramer? Yes
Was it physical labor? Yes but only to a very small degree, it was mostly...Mental? This
Did he not want to do the specific work at all? Good q - Yes, at one point
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3632
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the work involve computers? Is their job related to academics?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2164
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the work involve computers? No, not as a main component
Is their job related to academics? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3637
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Posted on Friday, August 27, 2010 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the work involve making something? Testing something?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2166
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Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the work involve making something? No
Testing something? This is involved in their work but only as a secondary function
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3653
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Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2010 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did their work involve electronics? Is it important what their job was? Or could this work for multiple professions?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2168
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Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did their work involve electronics? Sometimes, but only secondary
Is it important what their job was? Yes
Or could this work for multiple professions? Well their job shares at least one common aspect with other jobs in which this kind of situation could occur
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3673
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Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the work involve food? Other people? Is labor involved?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2169
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Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2010 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the work involve food? No
Other people? Yes
Is labor involved? Yes, but of a certain type
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2170
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP: So far we know that Cramer and Joel were owners and partners in a business that did not make or sell products, it provides a service (and this is relevant to the puzzle). Food isn't involved, and computers, electronics and testing are involved as secondary functions. Joel's offer to Cramer didn't include money, fame, power or the potential for any of these. Cramer was forced to quit after accepting Joel's offer, which was made in order to keep Joel from working harder (mostly mentally).
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3720
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer actually provide the service personally as part of his job? Did Joel?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2171
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer actually provide the service personally as part of his job? Did Joel? Yes, they both do/did
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3723
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the service done to one person at a time? More than one? Was the service done to an object? Were they mechanics?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2172
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the service done to one person at a time? Yes, and...More than one? In some cases this could have been done
Was the service done to an object? No, good q
Were they mechanics? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3726
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the service done directly to the person? Medicine relevant? Are they doctors? Do they own a hospital? A clinic? Relevant who they provide the service to? Do they make house calls? Serve the underprivileged?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2174
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the service done directly to the person? Yes, and...Medicine relevant? Yes, and...Are they doctors? Yes
Do they own a hospital? No A clinic? Well no, but closer to this than a hospital
Relevant who they provide the service to? Yes
Do they make house calls? No Serve the underprivileged? No
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2175
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And to clarify, medicine is only relevant to discover their profession, which you have done. It really has no further relevance to the solution.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3733
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Posted on Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they own a doctor's office (like for scheduled appointments)? Do they service athletes?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2177
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 3:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they own a doctor's office (like for scheduled appointments)? Yes
Do they service athletes? Possibly but not necessarily
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3738
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 4:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they service children? Adults? Is age the relevant factor? Is gender? Is profession?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2178
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they service children? Adults? Both
Is age the relevant factor? Is gender? Is profession? Relevant to what?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3755
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a relevant factor as to whom the doctors serve? If so, is it age? Gender? Profession?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2181
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a relevant factor as to whom the doctors serve? Yes
If so, is it age? Usually no, but in this puzzle the answer would be yes
Gender? Usually no, but in this puzzle the answer would be yes
Profession? No

These are good q's, thank you for clarifying!
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3757
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Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they service men? Women? Children? Teens? Adults?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2184
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 3:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they service men? Women? Children? Teens? Adults? All of these - explore further
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 117
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Out of the blue: is some kind of racism involved? Did Joel 'offered' his partner a patient and Cramer refused to treat him for some reasons, thus being dismissed by the board? By a governmental authority?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 118
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant the other way around. Cramer _accepted_ to treat him, against some regulations and was dismissed
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Out of the blue: is some kind of racism involved? No Did Joel 'offered' his partner a patient and Cramer refused to treat him for some reasons, thus being dismissed by the board? By a governmental authority? No, it's nothing of this sort
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3773
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they service people who are: HAM? HAF? HCM? HCF? HTM? HTF? (T = teen)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2189
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they service people who are: HAM? HAF? HCM? HCF? HTM? HTF? (T = teen) Yes to all (there is more to it)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they service relatives?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2191
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they service relatives? They could potentially service anyone, adult or child, male or female, relative, friend, stranger - these aren't the relevant characteristics
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant characteristic height? Hobby? Education? Upbringing? LTPF users?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant characteristic height? Hobby? Education? Upbringing? LTPF users? No to these
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The ones serviced: all humans? age relevant? ethnicity? colour of skin? location where they live? profession? particular diseases? (like all being diagnosed with cancer, for example) their medical condition relevant at all? do they share a thing in common? (other than being treated at the same clinic)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The ones serviced: all humans? Yes age relevant? Usually no, but for the purposes of arriving at the solution then yes
ethnicity? colour of skin? location where they live? profession? No to all. Now then...particular diseases? Not exactly but now you're on the right track
(like all being diagnosed with cancer, for example) Not this kind of situation but still OTRT
their medical condition relevant at all? Yes
do they share a thing in common? (other than being treated at the same clinic) YES
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3782
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the common thing a physical attribute? Mental? Eye color? Hair color? Wealth? Same disease? Were they a specialized treatment center? Did the offer involve treating someone without this attribute?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the common thing a physical attribute? Yes-ish (there's a better term for it than "attribute")
Mental? Yes, I'd say so
Eye color? Hair color? Wealth? No to these. Now...Same disease? Not disease, but OTRT!
Were they a specialized treatment center? YES
Did the offer involve treating someone without this attribute? No
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Drugs relevant? Alcohol? Smoking? Abandoned children (irrespective of their current age)? Was they mentally impaired? Mildly (as in anxiety)? Seriously (as in schyzofrenia)? Was their brain damaged (for svv of damaged) or there were other bodily parts?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Drugs relevant? Alcohol? Smoking? Abandoned children (irrespective of their current age)? Was they mentally impaired? No to these, but... Mildly (as in anxiety)? Yes, but this would not have been the primary reason for their visit
Seriously (as in schyzofrenia)? No
Was their brain damaged (for svv of damaged) No or there were other bodily parts? Hmmm...can you ask this question in another way?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there another body part damaged? That they went in for? Leprosy? Would this be considered a disablility? Are they handicapped? Paralyzed? Amputees?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there another body part damaged? Yes
That they went in for? Yes
Leprosy? No, not this type of issue
Would this be considered a disablility? In some cases, yes
Are they handicapped? Possibly, but something more specific
Paralyzed? No, probably not
Amputees? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 3795
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the damaged body part a limb? Joint? Extremity? Internal organ? External body part? Hands? Fingers? Arms? Toes? Legs?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the damaged body part a limb? Yes, this is possible Joint? No, not in this office
Extremity? Also possible
Internal organ? No, not in this office
External body part? Sure, this is possible
Hands? Fingers? Arms? Toes? Legs? Yes to all of these, any would be possible

Now you have discovered that the common thing among people who visit Joel and Cramer is damaged body part(s). There is more to discover about this as it specifically relates to the puzzle, but this is a key discovery.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was their skin damaged? Like from a fire? A chemical substance? Was it an injury likely to occur at work? At home?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it involve plastic surgery?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was their skin damaged? In some cases, yes
Like from a fire? This would be a reason, yes
A chemical substance? Also a reason, yes
Was it an injury likely to occur at work? At home? Possibly either of these - there is a more relevant cause of injury to discover...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2207
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it involve plastic surgery? Yes - good q!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Skin grafting?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Skin grafting? Possibly, but not relevant
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 2:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Transplant relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Transplant relevant? No

You've gotten as specific as you need to about what Joel and Cramer do - they are plastic surgeons, and they service patients with damaged body parts.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the offer to do plastic surgery on a patient without damaged body parts?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the offer to do plastic surgery on a patient No without damaged body parts? FA
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the offer related to their profession? Or was it something entirely different but proved later to have implication on the job? Was the offer something like "I'll do that, don't worry"? Was the reason for which Joel wanted Cramer to go relevant? Was the fact that other people were involved in his dismissal relevant? Did he leave because of: professional failure? fear of losing money? losing respect? Did Cramer accepted the offer without analyzing it with sufficient care? The activity that Joel wanted to get rid of -- is it medical in nature? Or is it some other thing -- like writing reports, for example?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the offer related to their profession? NO, not at all, it was...something entirely different but proved later to have implication on the job? Exactly!
Was the offer something like "I'll do that, don't worry"? No, not this kind of thing
Was the reason for which Joel wanted Cramer to go relevant? We have established that Joel has something personal against Cramer, and he thought his actions were good for the company, I think this is sufficient about this topic
Was the fact that other people were involved in his dismissal relevant? Yes, and...Did he leave because of: professional failure? Yes - see next answers...
fear of losing money? No losing respect? YES, and more than just a fear of this - good q
Did Cramer accepted the offer without analyzing it with sufficient care? Yes, safe assumption
The activity that Joel wanted to get rid of -- is it medical in nature? No
Or is it some other thing Yes, but...-- like writing reports, for example? not this kind of thing, no
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me post a recap -- please confirm if correct or flag the wrong assumptions: Joel and Cramer, two plastic surgeons who are partners in the same medical facility, are the subject of this puzzle. Joel has something personal against Cramer and he wants him removed from the company. As such, Joel makes him an offer that lies outside of their profession, knowing that the acceptance of it basically will affect Cramer's professional reputation (discredit him in some way?) and that he will be consequently dismissed / forced to resign. Remaining to solve: what was the particular offer that Joel proposed and Cramer accepted, plus the relation to their job. Should we explore also who the 'other people' were?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me post a recap -- please confirm if correct or flag the wrong assumptions: Joel and Cramer, two plastic surgeons who are partners in the same medical facility, are the subject Small FA here of this puzzle. Correct on almost all of it

Joel has something personal against Cramer and he wants him removed from the company. Correct

As such, Joel makes him an offer that lies outside of their profession, Yes

knowing He didn't know for sure...

that the acceptance of it basically [will] affect Cramer's professional reputation Almost - this is from an earlier post:

Was the job loss a: certainty? No, but certainly a Possibility? Yes



(discredit him in some way?) Yes, "discredit" is a very good word to use

and that he will be consequently dismissed / forced to resign. Yes - this is nearly all perfect

Remaining to solve: what was the particular offer that Joel proposed and Cramer accepted, plus the relation to their job. Should we explore also who the 'other people' were? Yes, and yes
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other people: patients serviced? authorities? fellow citizens? colleagues? experts in the same profession? Did Joel offer Cramer a thing that apparently (to Cramer) did benefit him (Cramer)? Was he accepting it (the offer) because: he thought it was benefiting him? he thought it was good for his colleague? For the company? He was neutral about it, but anyway he had nothing to do at the moment? Was the offer about (from Joel's perspective): doing something? abstaining from something? Was an object involved (like selling / sharing something)?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "other people" - relevant how many they were? If so, [LTPF list of integers]? Is another facility involved? Another profession? Was the offer medical at all? Did it make Cramer seem unsafe and unable to practice medicine? Does someone die?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other people: patients Yes, small FA serviced? No
authorities? No fellow citizens? No colleagues? Yes, so therefore...experts in the same profession? Yes
Did Joel offer Cramer a thing that apparently (to Cramer) did benefit him (Cramer)? To a minor degree, yes, Cramer may have thought this
Was he accepting it (the offer) because: he thought it was benefiting him? Yes, again to a minor degree he may have thought this
he thought it was good for his colleague? No For the company? No
He was neutral about it, but anyway he had nothing to do at the moment? Actually this is a very good description!
Was the offer about (from Joel's perspective): doing something? Yes abstaining from something? NO, not at all!
Was an object involved (like selling / sharing something)? YES
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "other people" - relevant how many they were? If so, [LTPF list of integers]? Yes, it is relative, and there are 2 other people involved
Is another facility involved? No Another profession? No Was the offer medical at all? No (see previous post as well)
Did it make Cramer seem unsafe and unable to practice medicine? NO, the offer itself did not but you are OTRT!
Does someone die? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the other people HAM? HAF? Related to Joel? Cramer? Other experts in the field? Did the results of the offer make Cramer seem unfit to practice medicine?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the other people HAM? Yes HAF? No Related to Joel? Cramer? No to both
Other experts in the field? Yes, but only 1 of them is
Did the results of the offer make Cramer seem unfit to practice medicine? Yes!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Person 2 (the non-expert) relevant to the offer? Can we call him Johann? And can we call the expert Opus?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the other people at some kind of a reunion when Joel asked Cramer to perform some kind of a demonstration? -- This is just of the blue, hoping to find a hint :=)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Person 2 (the non-expert) relevant to the offer? Yes, certainly
Can we call him Johann? Yes, that is a nice name
And can we call the expert Opus? Yes, let's...it's quite dignified

HINT: There is a reason that the names Cramer and Joel were chosen.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the other people at some kind of a reunion when Joel asked Cramer to perform some kind of a demonstration? -- This is just of the blue, hoping to find a hint :=)
No, not this kind of thing, but the location where the events occurred is relevant
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP: The puzzle involves 4 people - Joel, Cramer and Opus who are all plastic surgeons. There's also a man named Johann involved. Cramer accepts an offer from Joel which, while not at all related to the medial profession, at some point makes Cramer seem unfit to practice medicine.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the media relevant? Entertainment? My thought at hearing "Cramer" is "Seinfeld," which I've never seen, but here's a guess... Did Joel offer Cramer a guest-starring role on a TV show? But the show made Cramer appear foolish?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the media relevant? Entertainment? No, neither
My thought at hearing "Cramer" is "Seinfeld," which I've never seen, but here's a guess... Did Joel offer Cramer a guest-starring role on a TV show? But the show made Cramer appear foolish? Nothing like this but great idea
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the type of location relevant? (indoors? outdoors? public building? private house? park? stadium? street? academy or college establishment? other?).. or the town? country? continent? Local regulations applicable? Could it (conceptually) be in downtown Manhattan as well as in midtown Paris?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 2225
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the type of location relevant? (indoors? outdoors? public building? private house? park? stadium? street? academy or college establishment? other?).. Yes, it's an indoor location - don't think too hard about it, it is not hard to guess given the professions of the people involved
or the town? country? continent? Local regulations applicable? Could it (conceptually) be in downtown Manhattan as well as in midtown Paris? None of this is relevant
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a conference of some sort? And a patient volunteered to be a guinea pig for an experiment? Was an experiment involved?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 03, 2010 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a conference of some sort? No, simpler than that - here's a previous post that helps:

Did Joel and Cramer work at an office? Yes


And a patient Yes...
volunteered to be a guinea pig for an experiment? No, not this Was an experiment involved? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 2:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Johann the patient? Is the location their office? The doctor's office? Is Johann at the office when Joel makes the offer?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 3:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Johann the patient? Yes
Is the location their office? Yes
The doctor's office? Yes
Is Johann at the office when Joel makes the offer? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the offer involve Cramer doing something to Johann? For Johann? Cost of the treatment relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the offer involve Cramer doing something to Johann? No, the offer itself does not
For Johann? No
Cost of the treatment relevant? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Cramer end up doing something to Johann? As a result of the offer? Is Johann involved with the offer at all? Is Opus? Is Johann a patient of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Cramer end up doing something to Johann? No-ish - good q
As a result of the offer? No
Is Johann involved with the offer at all? No
Is Opus? No
Is Johann a patient of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? No, not yet...
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Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2010 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the offer involve taking Johann as a patient? Is the offer work-related?
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 2:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the offer involve taking Johann as a patient? No
Is the offer work-related? No, it's not
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 3:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Joel only make the offer to Cramer? Does he make just the one offer? Am I totally OTWT here?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2010 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Joel only make the offer to Cramer? Yes
Does he make just the one offer? Yes
Am I totally OTWT here? Not at all - Joel makes an offer only to Cramer, and the offer itself has nothing to do with plastic surgery
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Posted on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 2:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the offer involve another profession? Johann's profession? If Johann were not a patient, would Joel's deception still work? Can what Joel did be considered deception?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the offer involve another profession? No
Johann's profession? No
If Johann were not a patient, would Joel's deception still work? Good q - no, and see next answer...
Can what Joel did be considered deception? No, not deception
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 06, 2010 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel outright lie? Did he hint at something? Could his actions be compared to those of Iago in Othello (minus the death, of course)?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Joel outright lie? No
Did he hint at something? No
Could his actions be compared to those of Iago in Othello (minus the death, of course)? Yes, in a way - while there is no deception involved in the offer itself, it is involved elsewhere (as with your example of Iago)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Joel made contact with Johann before this? With Opus? Did the offer involve contact with Johann? With Opus?

Could you please recap?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Joel made contact with Johann before this? YES, and...With Opus? YES, and...Did the offer involve contact with Johann? With Opus? NO, the offer itself didn't involve either

Could you please recap? Gladly...

Joel makes contact with Johann and Opus, and later offers something to Cramer. There's nothing deceptive about the offer itself, and Joel doesn't lie when making the offer. Johann is not currently a patient of either Joel, Cramer or Opus. Johann is at the doctors' office when the offer is made to Cramer, and as a result of accepting the offer, Cramer appears unfit as a doctor.
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Johann once a patient of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? Had Joel made contact with Cramer before the offer? Is any fakery involved? Is Johann in the presence of Joel when he makes the offer to Cramer? The presence of Cramer? Is the offer made in person? By telephone? Letter? E-mail? Text message? Telegraph? Smoke signals?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Johann once a patient of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? No, Johann has never been a patient of any of them - good q
Had Joel made contact with Cramer before the offer? Yes, but likely only to the extent of everyday business operations
Is any fakery involved? Fakery? Well yes, although to most observers it wouldn't seem so - you're OTRT with this idea
Is Johann in the presence of Joel when he makes the offer to Cramer? NO - good q
The presence of Cramer? NO
Is the offer made in person? Yes
By telephone? Letter? E-mail? Text message? Telegraph? Smoke signals? So none of these
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the offer include Johann's becoming a patient? Of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? Can Johann hear the offer being made? Can Opus? Does the offer include any communication between:

Joel and Cramer?
Joel and Johann?
Joel and Opus?
Cramer and Johann?
Cramer and Opus?
Johann and Opus?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the offer include Johann's becoming a patient? No (but read on) Of Joel's? Cramer's? Opus'? The offer itself does not involve this, but this subject is key to the solution so explore it!
Can Johann hear the offer being made? No, and...Can Opus? No, but even if he had heard it he wouldn't have thought anything of it

Does the offer include any communication between:

Joel and Cramer? Yes, in that Joel makes the offer to Cramer
Joel and Johann? The offer itself does not include this, but this idea is involved...
Joel and Opus? No
Cramer and Johann? No
Cramer and Opus? No
Johann and Opus? No
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the offer involve taking on anyone as a patient? Refusing someone as a patient?
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the offer involve taking on anyone as a patient? Refusing someone as a patient? The offer itself does not, but as far as the solution you're OTRT!

The offer itself has nothing to do with the fact that C and J are doctors, nor anything to do with medicine or the practice of it, nor anything to do with business opertations
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP FROM PREVIOUS POST: Cramer accepted the offer and was mostly neutral about it, he had nothing to do at the moment. The offer was about doing something, not about abstaining from something, and an object was involved.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the object involved a doctor's instrument? Did it belong to Joel? Cramer? Opus? Johann?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the object involved a doctor's instrument? No - not only did the offer itself have nothing to do with medical practice, the object also didn't

Did it belong to Joel? Cramer? Opus? Technically it would have belonged to one, maybe all, maybe any of them
Johann? But it wouldn't have belonged to him, no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the object money? Did it belong to anyone? Can the object be picked up easily? With one hand? Is it bigger than a bookcase? Toaster? Basketball? Baseball? Golf ball? Is it any of those things?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the object money? No
Did it belong to anyone? Could have belonged to any of them or maybe all of them - ownership of the object is not relevant
Can the object be picked up easily? Yes With one hand? Yes
Is it bigger than a bookcase? Toaster? Basketball? None of these, but...Baseball? Yes, almost exactly this size if not slightly larger
Golf ball? So bigger than this, yes
Is it any of those things? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it edible? A fruit? An orange?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it edible? A fruit? An orange? The object itself is not edible, no, but something edible is involved with the object (once again OTRT)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object a liquid? Is it used for eating? Drinking? A coffee mug?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the object a liquid? The object itself, no, but...Is it used for eating? No, not this but...Drinking? Yes, and...A coffee mug? Yes!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any relevant text on the coffee mug? Is the coffee mug used? Given as a gift? Does the offer involve Cramer using the mug? Joel? Johann? Opus? Does using the mug make Cramer seem less professional?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any relevant text on the coffee mug? No, it can be safely assumed that it is unmarked
Is the coffee mug used? At some point, yes
Given as a gift? No
Does the offer involve Cramer using the mug? YES
Joel? Johann? Opus? None of these
Does using the mug make Cramer seem less professional? YES, but not simply this act, there is more to it...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he drink coffee out of the mug? Something else? Juice? Tea? Water? Alcohol?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he drink coffee out of the mug? YES
Something else? Juice? Tea? Water? Alcohol? No, just coffee (you knew, at some point, that coffee must be involved in the puzzle...didn't you?)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, I didn't...should I have? Assuming so, how? By the title?

Relevant where he is when he drinks the coffee? Is he alone? With Joel? Johann? Opus? Another patient? With others?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, I didn't...should I have? Assuming so, how? By the title? I'm half-kidding here, I didn't really expect anyone to jump to this connection until this point so I tried to hide some clues in the title and in the statement:

"When to say when" - sometimes when getting refills on coffee, you can tell the server that you don't want a full cup and they will tell you to "say when" so they know when to stop pouring

Cramer = creamer
Joel = Joe (slang for coffee)

But like I said, I didn't expect this connection to play a factor. I did, however, partially derive the elements of this puzzle (like the coffee) from my last puzzle about Mr. Doe and the coffee cups.




Relevant where he is when he drinks the coffee? Yes Is he alone? NO, he is...With Joel? Johann? Opus? ...with all 3 of these people

Another patient? With others? No, when Cramer drinks the coffee he and these 3 others are the only ones present
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anyone else drinking coffee? Drinking anything? Are they meeting together? In a bar? Restaurant? If the others are drinking, relative what? Alcohol? Milk? Juice? Tea? Iced tea? Hot chocolate? Are any of them eating anything? All of them?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anyone else drinking coffee? Maybe, but no one else that's relevant
Drinking anything? Possibly but not relevant
Are they meeting together? Yes
In a bar? Restaurant? No, the location of where they are has been established
If the others are drinking, relative what? Alcohol? Milk? Juice? Tea? Iced tea? Hot chocolate? Are any of them eating anything? All of them? No, safe to assume that it's only Cramer that's drinking anything. No one is eating anything, but even if they were it would not make any difference.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They're at the doctor's office, right? Is Cramer apparently unfit because he's drinking coffee in what's supposed to be a sterile environment?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They're at the doctor's office, right? Correct
Is Cramer apparently unfit because he's drinking coffee No, it's not simply because he's drinking the coffee that he appears unfit
in what's supposed to be a sterile environment? No, the place where he's drinking isn't required to be sterile
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anything he's wearing relevant? Does he spill the coffee? Are they talking about anything relevant? Doing anything relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anything he's wearing relevant? No
Does he spill the coffee? YES...explore!
Are they talking about anything relevant? YES
Doing anything relevant? Yes, but the previous question is most important
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they talking about anything related to their jobs? Something related to Cramer? Joel? Johann? Opus? Are they talking about sports? Cleanliness? Coffee? Religion? Politics? Anything involving a profession?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they talking about anything related to their jobs? At one point, yes
Something related to Cramer? Joel? Johann? Opus? Yes - related to all 4 of them to a degree, but mostly related to Johann
Are they talking about sports? Cleanliness? Coffee? Religion? Politics? Anything involving a profession? Well, the discussion does involve a profession - it's not complicated, considering who they are, where they are, and the common aspect of people that would visit this office (which has already been determined)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they discussing people with that skin condition (or whatever that exactly was)? Does Cramer burn himself when he spills the coffee? Making him seem insensitive to the cause?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 07, 2010 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they discussing Yes...
people Yes, specifically ???
with that skin condition (or whatever that exactly was)? Yes, and it's relevant!
Does Cramer burn himself when he spills the coffee? No, not likely, but...
Making him seem insensitive to the cause? YES! You've hit on why Cramer appears unsuitable. The fact that he doesn't get burned when he spills the coffee should help you understand the connection, but you're OTRT so don't quit now!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spill it on his skin? Was the coffee hot? Warm? Cool? Had he added cream to the coffee? Was that Joel's offer - simply to add cream?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spill it on his skin? Yes
Was the coffee hot? Well maybe, but probably just...Warm? Yes Cool? No
Had he added cream to the coffee? Doesn't matter
Was that Joel's offer - simply to add cream? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They were treating skin burn patients, correct? So it would make Cramer appear insensitive when he does not burn himself with the coffee, correct?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They were treating skin burn patients, correct? No...they are able to treat those kind of patients, but that is not what was going on in this case
So it would make Cramer appear insensitive when he does not burn himself with the coffee, correct? Not relevant, OTWT
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

These two posts provide some key info:

Sept. 3 at 2:15 PM
Sept. 7 at 4:44 PM (with regards to Joel and Johann)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spill the coffee on his leg? Arm? Torso? Relevant what body part? I'm thinking that the patients they service may have damaged a specific body part, and by spilling the coffee on the same body part, Cramer would seem insensitive to the cause...is this correct?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spill the coffee on his leg? Arm? Torso? Possibly any or all of these, read on...
Relevant what body part? Yes - if you figure it out you should be able to discover what made Cramer seem so unfit
I'm thinking that the patients they service may have damaged a specific body part, That's true for some, but an FA for others - explore!
and by spilling the coffee on the same body part, Cramer would seem insensitive to the cause...is this correct? No - there are really two important things about the coffee being spilled. Mostly it doesn't matter where the coffee landed when it spilled, but if you can determine where some of it landed this will lead you to the important aspects.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spill the coffee on only himself? On Joel? Johann? Opus?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spill the coffee on only himself? Yes, at least most of it (OTRT)
On Joel? Johann? Opus? Possible but not likely
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the coffee land on a limb? Extremety? In his lap?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the coffee land on a limb? Extremety? In his lap? Possibly any of these, but not primarily

If you can focus on other aspects of the spill it may also help
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spill the coffee by knocking over the cup? Accidentally pouring it onto himself when going to drink it?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he spill the coffee by knocking over the cup? NO - good q!
Accidentally pouring it onto himself when going to drink it? No, but another good q (this is a great line of questioning)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he accidentally spill the coffee? Intentionally?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he accidentally Yes
spill Perhaaaaaaps not the best word, but right idea...
the coffee? Yes, it was accidental
Intentionally? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's some words to use instead of "spill"...do any of the following work:

Pour?
Dribble?
Drip?
Drop?
Splash?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's some words to use instead of "spill"...do any of the following work:

Pour? No
Dribble? Getting closer with this one...
Drip? Somewhat close with this as well...
Drop? No
Splash? Closer with this also...
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2010 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did all of the coffee that splashed out of the mug land on Cramer? Or did some of it land somewhere else?

Did Joel make his offer before? or after Cramer spilled/splashed the coffee? Relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 3:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did all of the coffee that splashed out of the mug land on Cramer? Or did some of it land somewhere else? Not relevant, just know that most likely some of it did land on Cramer

Did Joel make his offer before? YES or after NO Cramer spilled/splashed the coffee? Relevant? Yes - Joel offers Cramer a mug filled with coffee, and then at a later time Cramer 'spills' coffee

There's an exact term for what Cramer did that works better than "spill", but it is a slang term in English that many people may not have heard. There is still another phrase for what he did, though, that conveys the same idea.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 3:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer break the cup when the coffee "spilled"? Did he drop the cup, period, when the coffee spilled?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 4:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer break the cup when the coffee "spilled"? No, nor...Did he drop the cup, period, No, he didn't...when the coffee spilled? Keep going...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he "upset" the coffee?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he "upset" the coffee? Can you explain what you mean by this?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When he "spilled" the coffee, was he trying to: pour it? Balance it? Carry it? Not spill it? Stir it? Put something in it? Was he holding it at the moment?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When he "spilled" the coffee, was he trying to: pour it? Balance it? Carry it? None of these, now... Not spill it? Yes, he was trying not to spill it
Stir it? Put something in it? No to these
Was he holding it at the moment? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Upset the coffee = flip over the coffee cup

Was he holding the cup normally? Was he also holding something else? And trying to balance everything? Did he say anything when he spilled the coffee? Did he use an expletive?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Upset the coffee = flip over the coffee cup Ok - no, he didn't do this

Was he holding the cup normally? Yes
Was he also holding something else? Not relevant
And trying to balance everything? No
Did he say anything when he spilled the coffee? Say anything? No, but you're OTRT
Did he use an expletive? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he do anything relevant when he spilled the coffee? Did he spill it because his hand shook? He tripped? He fell down?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he do anything relevant when he spilled the coffee? YES
Did he spill it because his hand shook? He tripped? He fell down? Not due to any of these, but the cause of the spill IS relevant!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer cause the spill? Joel? Johann? Opus? Was Cramer distracted? And thus, the spill? Did he knock over the cup? Did the cup break in his hand? Did the handle snap off?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer cause the spill? He spilled coffee but was not really the 'cause', read on... Joel? No, but... Johann? Yes! Johann is the main cause of the spill!
Opus? No
Was Cramer distracted? No, quite the opposite
And thus, the spill? No
Did he knock over the cup? Did the cup break in his hand? Did the handle snap off? No - HINT: No coffee ever spilled from the cup
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer drop the cup, with the coffee in it? Was Johann ever holding the cup? Did he make contact with Cramer? Was Cramer extremely focused on not spilling the coffee? So he missed something that Johann did? Said? And that made him seem insensitive to the cause?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer drop the cup, with the coffee in it? No, not at any time
Was Johann ever holding the cup? No
Did he make contact with Cramer? Yes, indirectly
Was Cramer extremely focused YES...on not spilling the coffee? YES, this is exactly what he was focused on, but "spilling" does not adequately describe what Cramer did not want to do with the coffee...
So he missed something that Johann did? NO Said? NO, he DIDN'T miss it!
And that made him seem insensitive to the cause? NO

Good q's!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he HEAR something Johann said? Did that change his focus from not spilling the coffee to what Johann said? Did that cause coffee to splash? Out of the cup?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he HEAR something Johann said? YES
Did that change his focus from not spilling the coffee to what Johann said? Yes, you could say that
Did that cause coffee to splash? YES, but...Out of the cup? NO, not from the cup!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the coffee splash into the cup? Did it splash up from the cup, but stayed in the cup? Does the coffee ever leave the cup? Or did coffee splash out from something else? The coffeepot?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the coffee splash into the cup? \b[Possibly}
Did it splash up from the cup, but stayed in the cup? Possibly
Does the coffee ever leave the cup? Maybe, but not the coffee that's relevant
Or did coffee splash out from something else? YES, and not someTHING...
The coffeepot? No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer spit out coffee? Had he just taken a drink when Johann said something, and Cramer was shocked or something, and spit out the coffee? Did he spit it at Johann? Did THAT make him seem insensitive to the cause?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cramer spit out coffee? YES!
Had he just taken a drink when Johann said something, YES!
and Cramer was shocked Not really...or something, YES, or SOMETHING...and spit out the coffee? Yes Did he spit it at Johann? Maybe, but doesn't really matter
Did THAT make him seem insensitive to the cause? YES!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I take it we're almost there...

Was Cramer angered? Upset? Laughing? Afraid? Surprised? Thrilled?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Cramer angered? Upset? No, not these, he was...Laughing? YES
Afraid? Surprised? Thrilled? None of these

RECAP AND HINT: The slang term for what Cramer did is SNARF, which includes laughing and some form of "spitting" liquid out (although it is more specific than this). He had just taken a drink when Johann said something which caused the snarf from Cramer, and it is this which made Cramer seem unfit as a doctor.

HINT: Almost there, now focus on Joel and Johann and you'll get to the solution!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After nearly 200 posts, I'd hope we're close to the solution....

Would it be better to say Cramer spewed the liquid, rather than spit, in the SNARF definition?

What Johann said...did it related to Joel? Cramer? Opus? Himself? Did it related to Cramer's profession? Did it involve Johann as a potential patient? Did Joel tell Johann to say this?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it be better to say Cramer spewed the liquid, rather than spit, in the SNARF definition? YES

What Johann said...did it related to Joel? Cramer? Opus? No, but to...Himself? YES
Did it related to Cramer's profession? No
Did it involve Johann as a potential patient? YES!
Did Joel tell Johann to say this? YES!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And behind post #200, we have...

Did Johann offer to be a patient? Of Cramer's? Instead of Joel's? Opus'? Did Johann tell a story about how he had that skin condition? And the story was so outrageous it made Cramer snarf? Did Johann really have the skin condition? Or was he just pretending? By request of Joel?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Johann offer to be a patient? Yes, after a little coaxing
Of Cramer's? Instead of Joel's? Opus'? Potentially of any of the 3
Did Johann tell a story YES
about how he had that skin condition? He did tell a story about his condition, but "skin condition" is mostly FA
And the story was so outrageous it made Cramer snarf? YES!
Did Johann really have the skin condition? Yes, he really did
Or was he just pretending? No, he actually had a condition
By request of Joel? YES - you could say that Joel requested that Johann tell the story about his condition, and this caused Cramer to react the way he did. Remember, Joel and Johann had previous contact before the spilling incident.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "condition" - was it a skin burn? And it was because Johann did something really dumb? What's left to find?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "condition" - was it a skin burn? No
And it was because Johann did something really dumb? NO - the condition that Johann has was not caused by Johann himself!

What's left to find? Not much, and in the interest of getting to the end I'll give a helpful recap: Joel talks with Johann, discovers that he has a condition that was not caused by Johann himself, and that he, Opus and Cramer have the ability to treat. Joel has decided that it's best if Cramer leave the practice, at least at this office, so he tells Johann to tell a story which causes Cramer to laugh and spew coffee out of his nose (which is a "snarf"). It is this act by Cramer that causes him to appear unfit to care for patients such as Johann. The 4 men are meeting at the medical office, and Joel "harmlessly" offers Cramer a mug of coffee as they prepare to meet with Johann, a potential patient whom Joel has already talked to.

So, the only thing left to discover is what's wrong with Johann, and why would Cramer think it funny?

HINT: To simply look at Johann, you wouldn't know anything was wrong.


Nearly done...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Johann's condition on the skin? Internal? Was the condition caused by Joel? Cramer? Opus? Someone unrelated to the puzzle?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Johann's condition on the skin? Not really, it's...Internal? Yes, this
Was the condition caused by Joel? Cramer? Opus? Someone unrelated to the puzzle? This - it was caused by another person in the medical field
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Johann had an operation? And something went wrong? Did a surgeon leave a medical instrument inside him?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Johann had an operation? YES, And something went wrong? YES
Did a surgeon leave a medical instrument inside him? No

BONUS HINT: If Joel had told Johann's story to Cramer instead of Johann telling it himself, Joel's plan wouldn't have worked.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BONUS HINT 2: So far all we know about Johann is that he is a HAM (who had a bad medical experience). Finding out just a little more about him will help tremendously.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Johann's age relevant? Ethnicity? Is Johann in need of another operation? Was the operation an -ectomy? Bypass surgery? Relevant exactly what it was?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Johann's age relevant? He's an adult, that's all that's relevant about that
Ethnicity? No
Is Johann in need of another operation? Yes
Was the operation an -ectomy? Could have been - the important aspect is the area that was operated on
Bypass surgery? No, wouldn't have been this type
Relevant exactly what it was? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2010 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the operation on his heart? Liver? Stomach? Intestines? Spleen? Gall bladder? Pancreas? Lungs?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the operation on his heart? Liver? Stomach? Intestines? Spleen? Gall bladder? Pancreas? Lungs? No, it was not on any major organ.

BONUS HINT #3: It was only funny because Johann himself told the story - if Opus, Joel, or anyone else had told Johann's story it wouldn't have been nearly as funny to Cramer.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something about Johann's physicality that made the story funny? Did Johann have a deformity? Was he short? Tall? Fat? Slim? Did he have any limbs missing? Was the operation liposuction? Some other weight-loss surgery? Did it leave a scar? Did Johann show Cramer the scar? Was the operation on a limb? Arm? Leg? Hand? Foot? On Johann's head? Microsurgery relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something about Johann's physicality that made the story funny? Yes, for sure!
Did Johann have a deformity? No
Was he short? Tall? Height doesn't matter, but... Fat? No! Slim? Yes, and muscular!
Did he have any limbs missing? No
Was the operation liposuction? No
Some other weight-loss surgery? No
Did it leave a scar? Maybe, but not relevant
Did Johann show Cramer the scar? Maybe, but that still wouldn't have made Cramer laugh
Was the operation on a limb? Arm? Leg? Hand? Foot? None of these
On Johann's head? Close!
Microsurgery relevant? No

HINT: It was so funny because Johann talked about his problem, not just showed Cramer
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Johann's neck? Chest? Did he have a tracheotomy? Which would have made his voice sound odd?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh Johann's neck? YES - inside it!
Chest? So, no
Did he have a tracheotomy? Close - he had surgery on his tonsils/vocal chord area
Which would have made his voice sound odd? YES!!

FINAL HINT: Johann is a fit, muscular man who has an odd sounding voice now due to prior surgery on his tonsils which resulted in damage to his throat area. Want to guess what the oddity is about his voice, and how Joel could make it something so funny that it would cause Cramer to snarf?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is his vocal pitch extremely high? Low? I'd think that most people would find it odd if a muscular man had a falsetto tone to his voice....

Did his voice buzz when he spoke? Does he stutter?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is his vocal pitch extremely high? YES!
Low? No, and...I'd think that most people would find it odd if a muscular man had a falsetto tone to his voice....So did Cramer!

Did his voice buzz when he spoke? Does he stutter? No, you've got it!

And (to everyone's relief), we'll post the...


***** SPOILER *****

Johann had a botched surgery on his tonsils, and as a result his vocal chords were damaged making him only able to speak with a high-pitched falsetto voice. Joel, who wants Cramer out of their practice, meets Johann and thinks of a plan to use him to an advantage. So Joel asks Johann to come in for a consultation, and before Johann meets with the doctors, Joel "innocently" offers Cramer a cup of coffee, which he accepts. In the meeting, Joel directs the questions to Johann knowing that a big man with a little voice will be seen as funny by Cramer (who has a weakness for this - this never came out during questions). The plan works, leading to an embarrassing snarf moment which leads Opus and Joel to agree that, for the good of the office, Cramer should leave.


MUCH applause to participants, mostly Balin, for staying with it! I based this on a situation that happened during a TV talk show in which the host interviewed a man with damaged vocal chords who spoke with a falsetto voice - the producers had prompted the host (because they didn't like him) to ask the man about his love life, and as the man started to talk about his high voice making it difficult to talk to women, the host began to laugh uncontrollably, and was fired from the show because of his actions.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excellent puzzle! Or should I say, excellent puzzle!

Just one question - how did Joel not have to work as hard by getting Cramer fired?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, September 10, 2010 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just one question - how did Joel not have to work as hard by getting Cramer fired?
Ah, good question - Joel's first plan to get Cramer fired worked like a charm. If it hadn't, he would have had his usual workload plus the mental energy it would take to devise Plan B (and maybe C, and then D...)
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 9:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cool story. One of our pilots have a voice problem because of cancer surgery, fortunately for him he's happily married, and a great guy.

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