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Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Inspired by Balin's similar puzzle.

How is the Bible 4.5% wrong?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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It is? :-(

Translation errors?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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It is? :-( not really -- this is more of a joke, and you can easily show that it's not really wrong

Translation errors? irrel AFAIK
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Because 4.5% of a certain group think it is wrong?

(I don't know, lol)
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because 4.5% of a certain group think it is wrong?

(I don't know, lol) no, OTWT entirely
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All right, got to think on this more...
Balin (Balin)
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Is the OT relevant? NT? Any particular book? Books? 4.5% of 66 books is almost exactly three, so are we looking for three books?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is the OT relevant? yes NT? no Any particular book? yes Books? no 4.5% of 66 books is almost exactly three, so are we looking for three books? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the book [LTPF list of Old Testament books]?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is the book [LTPF list of Old Testament books]? BLOOPER: Two books are relevant, 1 Kings and 2 Chronicles.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Genesis?
Exodus?
Leviticus?
Numbers?
Deuteronomy?
Joshua?
Judges?
Ruth?
1 Samuel?
2 Samuel?
1 Kings?
2 Kings?
1 Chronicles?
2 Chronicles?
Ezra?
Nehemiah?
Esther?
Job?
Psalms?
Proverbs?
Ecclesiastes?
Song of Solomon?
Isaiah?
Jeremiah?
Lamentations?
Ezekiel?
Daniel?
Hosea?
Joel?
Amos?
Obadiah?
Jonah?
Micah?
Nahum?
Habakkuk?
Zephaniah?
Haggai?
Zechariah?
Malachi?
How's that for an LTPF Old Testament list? :-)
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And because I went to all that time typing them out, I missed the answer. LOL!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is King David relevant? King Solomon? Are any of the kings of Israel relevant? The kings of Judah?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is King David relevant? no King Solomon? yope Are any of the kings of Israel relevant? The kings of Judah? no other kings are relevant
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I may know this one...are horses relevant?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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I may know this one...are horses relevant? no, but I'd be glad to know where you got this
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Solomon's wisdom relevant? His riches? Number of wives? Concubines? Visit from Queen of Sheba relevant?

My guess was because through a typographical error in early copying, 1 Kings and 2 Chronicles differ in the number of stalls for horses and chariots (4,000 vs 40,000 or something).
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is Solomon's wisdom relevant? His riches? Number of wives? Concubines? Visit from Queen of Sheba relevant? none of the above, except possibly yopishly riches

My guess was because through a typographical error in early copying, 1 Kings and 2 Chronicles differ in the number of stalls for horses and chariots (4,000 vs 40,000 or something). well, this "error" is present in the original text, I'm pretty sure
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Temple relevant?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is the Temple relevant? yes, email for possible $poilers
Balin (Balin)
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Are the materials used to build the Temple relevant? The people who built it?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Are the materials used to build the Temple relevant? yesish The people who built it? yesish
Balin (Balin)
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Amount of materials? Amount of people?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Amount of materials? yesish Amount of people? no
Balin (Balin)
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Is one specific material relevant? The cedars of Lebanon?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is one specific material relevant? yesish The cedars of Lebanon? no
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 4:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gold? Silver? Fabric?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Gold? Silver? Fabric? The exact word used is "metal," so I'm not sure which metal.
Balin (Balin)
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Relevant how the metal was acquired? Amount of metal used? Proportion of metal used?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Relevant how the metal was acquired? Amount of metal used? this Proportion of metal used? rephrase please
Balin (Balin)
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Percentage of metal (when compared to other materials)? Weight of the metal? Volume of the metal? Monetary value of the metal?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Percentage of metal (when compared to other materials)? Weight of the metal? Volume of the metal? this is OTRT Monetary value of the metal?
Balin (Balin)
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How much metal was used to build the temple? Precious metal? Do the two accounts differ on precise amounts?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How much metal was used to build the temple? not exactly Precious metal? Do the two accounts differ on precise amounts? no, they have the same "error"
Balin (Balin)
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How many cartloads (or some other measurement like this) of metal? "Loads" of some sort? How many of a certain animal it took to pull all the metal?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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How many cartloads (or some other measurement like this) of metal? "Loads" of some sort? How many of a certain animal it took to pull all the metal? none of the above
Balin (Balin)
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D'oh...I know this one, if the answer to the following question is yes. (Two years ago, I actually wrote out, on an index card, how this is not really an error.)

Is math relevant?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

D'oh...I know this one, if the answer to the following question is yes. (Two years ago, I actually wrote out, on an index card, how this is not really an error.)

Is math relevant? yes—email to be sure, and I'll keep the puzzle open since I don't think this should be $poiled just yet
Balin (Balin)
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I agree with that last assessment - emailed.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Argh, I'm so confused :-(
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 1:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin's answer was correct, but I want to keep the puzzle open, so here's a RECAP:

Both 1 Kings and 2 Chronicles contain the same so-called error of 4.5% involving the amount of metal used in building part of the Temple, measured in a way other than volume, weight, percentage, or monetary value, related to volume in some way. What is the "error"?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Is it related to density? Is it measured by comparison with the volume of another material?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is it related to density? Is it measured by comparison with the volume of another material? no to both

Gregory Koch (not sure who that is) has emailed me a correct $poiler as well.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gregory Koch = Gregoryuconn on the forum.
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Is the error caused by: poor scientific knowledge of the material? mathematical error done by the persons living at that time? mathematical error done by the book writer? Error due to the "translation" to modern languages?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is the error caused by: poor scientific knowledge of the material? mathematical error done by the persons living at that time? thisish mathematical error done by the book writer? Error due to the "translation" to modern languages?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Does the error concern: a calculation? a measurement?
Is there a physical quantity directly concerned by the error? Volume? Weight?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, that would be me. I emailed you the $poiler
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the error concern: a calculation? yes a measurement? yes
Is there a physical quantity directly concerned by the error? yesish Volume? Weight? but not these
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Height? Length? Surface? Density? Stiffness? Melting temperature?

Is the origin of metal relevant? Or its shape/form before being used to build the temple?

Getting crazy at this, everybody seems to understand it except me :-)
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I certainly have no idea, Mattiel, so you're not alone...
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Height? Length? THISISH Surface? Density? Stiffness? Melting temperature?

Is the origin of metal relevant? Or its shape/form before being used to build the temple? no to rest
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 6:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know this one too (I just did the calculation to verify that the error was in fact 4.5%), so I will stay out of this puzzle.
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for the long silence, been very busy lately...
Is the length measured/calculated using a the shadow produced by the sun at a certain hour of the day?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is the length measured/calculated using a the shadow produced by the sun at a certain hour of the day? no, or at least not afaik, but irrel
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Is the shape of the measured/calculated quantity relevant?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Is the shape of the measured/calculated quantity relevant? shape is definitely relevant -- otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2010 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I mean if the "thing" whose lenght is measured/calculated is straight, or curved, etc?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 5:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I mean if the "thing" whose lenght is measured/calculated is straight, or curved, etc? then yes, and curved
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Posted on Friday, October 22, 2010 - 9:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A circle? An arch? A spiral?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Monday, October 25, 2010 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A circle? pretty much; you're close now An arch? A spiral?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the error concern the circumference calculation/measurement? And the calculated/measured value is 4,5% wrong with respect to reality? Were the persons who made the calculation/measurement aware of the existence, or the exact value of pi?
Whirligig (Whirligig)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the error concern the circumference calculation/measurement? YES And the calculated/measured value is 4,5% wrong with respect to reality? YES Were the persons who made the calculation/measurement aware of the existence, or the exact value of pi? not sure, but you get the idea, so ...

**********SPOILER**********

"And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about."
1 Kings 7:23 (KJV)

This implies that the value of pi is 30/10, or 3, which has an error of 4.5%. However, to the number of significant digits given, this value is correct. Also, it may have been correct at a more precise level as well, because calculating pi this way doesn't take the thickness of the sea into account. This website (courtesy of Balin) explains it pretty well: http://www.purplemath.com/modules/bibleval.htm

Now how about my other puzzles? In case you're wondering why I haven't replied on Speed Adventures, I want to keep you in suspense ... (plus I'm lazy)

Congrats to all who participated, especially Balin, Gregoryuconn, and Mattiel for finding the solution.

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