| Author | Message | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1039 Registered: 6-2008 |
Today, during a science lecture, I looked up a historical event on Wikipedia. Oddly, it was relevant to clarifying something the professor said, though there was no relevant impact of that historical event on science. Why? Note: Some relatively detailed knowledge of a particular science (and history) is necessary to determine exactly what he said. So I will $poil once people get the general form of the connection, unless someone wants to guess farther. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 247 Registered: 9-2010 |
Are we allowed to invoke the LTPF list of sciences? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1040 Registered: 6-2008 |
Are we allowed to invoke the LTPF list of sciences? Sure, I'll allow that. It's chemistry. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 250 Registered: 9-2010 |
Thanks! Chemistry, hmm? *ponders* I'm not that good at chemistry... Did it involve something to do with specific chemical reactions or elements? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5364 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is a certain scientist relevant? A chemist? An experiment? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1041 Registered: 6-2008 |
Did it involve something to do with specific chemical reactions or elements? It pertained in this case to a specific chemical reaction, though could just as easily have pertained to a number of others. Elements are irrelevant, though (aside from their obvious relevance to everything in chemistry, that is) Is a certain scientist relevant? A chemist? An experiment? No to all | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5376 Registered: 4-2010 |
Bonding relevant? Physical properties of a certain substance? Chemical properties? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1042 Registered: 6-2008 |
Bonding relevant?Yesish Physical properties of a certain substance? No Chemical properties?No | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3194 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the historical event a: discovery? Disaster? War? Is a specific chemical compound relevant? Or class of compounds? Is organic chemistry more relevant? Or inorganic? Did the historical event happen in the last: 10 years? 20? 50? 100? 200? 500? Was electricity involved? Fire? Explosives? Poison? Pigments? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1043 Registered: 6-2008 |
Was the historical event a: discovery? Disaster? War?This is closest--a battle Is a specific chemical compound relevant? Or class of compounds?Neither Is organic chemistry more relevant? This. In fact it's unlikely a professor of inorganic chemistry would say something similar, though unless you've studied both relatively recently this may not be a helpful hint. Or inorganic? Did the historical event happen in the last: 10 years? 20? 50? 100? 200? 500? No to all Was electricity involved? Fire? Explosives? Poison? Pigments? Again, no to all | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 436 Registered: 9-2009 |
So, did the relevant event happen in [LTPF list of centuries]? Long shot: naval battle? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3198 Registered: 9-2009 |
Blood relevant? Biology? Disease? Weather? Hallucinogens? Drugs? Did he use a figure of speech? Did he make a reference to the battle? Use it as an analogy? Or make some other analogy? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5384 Registered: 4-2010 |
Chlorine gas relevant? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1044 Registered: 6-2008 |
So, did the relevant event happen in [LTPF list of centuries]? 11th Long shot: naval battle? No Blood relevant? Biology? Disease? Weather? Hallucinogens? Drugs? None of these Did he use a figure of speech?Yope, see below Did he make a reference to the battle?Yes Use it as an analogy?Yes Or make some other analogy?What do you mean "other"? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 446 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the battle fought on [LTPF list of continents]? Was something that belligerants did used as a comparison of how substances are reacting in a chemical reaction? Is it a particular reaction or a class of them (along the lines of, say, acid+base=salt+water) To rule out the obvious, are we talking about Hastings? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 2028 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is 1066 related in some way to the shape of a molecule? Perhaps the number of bonds/vertices in a crystal, or such? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3214 Registered: 9-2009 |
Other analogy: analogy not involving the battle. Types of bonds relevant? Making bonds more relevant? Or breaking? Or changing? Repulsion? did the analogy also include electrons? Resonance structures relevant? Ring-shaped molecules? Isomers? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1046 Registered: 6-2008 |
Was the battle fought on [LTPF list of continents]? See below Was something that belligerants did used as a comparison of how substances are reacting in a chemical reaction? Yesish to yope Is it a particular reaction or a class of them (along the lines of, say, acid+base=salt+water) It pertains to a class of reactions, for svv. of "class", as there is no formal chemical similarity between them. And the "class" is also defined rather subjectively. To rule out the obvious, are we talking about Hastings? Yes we are, in fact. Is 1066 related in some way to the shape of a molecule? Perhaps the number of bonds/vertices in a crystal, or such? No to all Other analogy: analogy not involving the battle.There is only one analogy here. And be warned that the analogy is rather silly. Types of bonds relevant? Making bonds more relevant? Or breaking? Or changing? All of these are relevant, particularly the forming and breaking of bonds Repulsion?No did the analogy also include electrons?Yes, in fact it was most related to these Resonance structures relevant?Noish, but OTRT Ring-shaped molecules?Not particularly Isomers?No If you know what all those things are, Galfisk, you are very probably in a position to guess the exact analogy. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3220 Registered: 9-2009 |
Cool. I don't know anything about that battle though. Is Wikipeding it cheating? Relevent: double bonds? Triple bonds? Carbon-carbon bonds? Or bonds between carbon and other elements? Is a group of elements especially relevant? If so, one of the groups in the periodic system? Is heat relevant? Other physical means of affecting chemical bonds? Such as radiation? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3221 Registered: 9-2009 |
Polymers relevant? Polymerization? Proteins? Protein folding? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1047 Registered: 6-2008 |
Cool. I don't know anything about that battle though. Is Wikipeding it cheating?No. After all, that's what I had to do to understand his analogy. Relevent: double bonds? Triple bonds? Carbon-carbon bonds? Or bonds between carbon and other elements? Any sort of bonds may be relevant Is a group of elements especially relevant?No If so, one of the groups in the periodic system? Is heat relevant?No Other physical means of affecting chemical bonds?The means by which they are affected is irr., but... Such as radiation? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1048 Registered: 6-2008 |
Polymers relevant? Polymerization? Proteins? Protein folding? Proteins and protein folding are really cool, but alas, they are not relevant to this puzzle. And neither is polymerization in particular, though there may be some forms that fit the analogy | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 481 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was it some battle tactic that was relevant? If so: of the Norman army? The Anglo-Saxon Army? The shield wall? Are names of people paticipating in the battle relevant? Names of places? | ||
| Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member Username: Gregoryuconn Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2010 |
"Bombarded with atoms like England's Army with William's arrows?" Something like that? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1050 Registered: 6-2008 |
Was it some battle tactic that was relevant?Yes If so: of the Norman army?This The Anglo-Saxon Army? The shield wall?No Are names of people paticipating in the battle relevant?No Names of places?No "Bombarded with atoms like England's Army with William's arrows?"Not this, but arrows are very relevant! Something like that? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5548 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the army fire arrows over castle walls? Some other wall? Longbows relevant? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3235 Registered: 9-2009 |
Activation energy relevant? Trajectory of arrows? Uphill/downhill battle? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 313 Registered: 9-2010 |
Monty Python and the Holy Grail relevant at all? (Sorry, just...the juxtaposition of Englishmen with soldiers from Normandy (France) made me think of that one scene...) | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1051 Registered: 6-2008 |
Did the army fire arrows over castle walls? Some other wall?The English put up a shield wall,which blocked many of the arrows. But this is irrelevant to the puzzle. Longbows relevant?No Activation energy relevant?No Trajectory of arrows?Yope, if you are talking about the arrows used in the battle. Uphill/downhill battle?No Monty Python and the Holy Grail relevant at all?Not even remotely. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 316 Registered: 9-2010 |
And I thought I had it there. Oh well. It was such a good movie, too. :-D | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1053 Registered: 6-2008 |
And I thought I had it there. Oh well. It was such a good movie, too. :-D I'm curious, how did you think that movie linked chemistry to the Battle of Hastings? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 318 Registered: 9-2010 |
...Well, maybe not chemistry specifically, but they used the scientific method in the movie...sort of *lol*...and that scene with the knights at the French castle...well, those were Normans so their people would have come over with William the Conqueror...yeah, my thought processes are weird. Honestly, I don't know. The way my brain is wired, literally, is odd...that's why I'm epileptic. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3247 Registered: 9-2009 |
Enzymes relevant? Catalysts? Relevant part of the battle: shooting arrows at the shield wall? Charging it? Throwing stuff downhill at the attacking enemy? Breaking of the shield wall to pursue the enemy? Counterattack on the now broken shield wall? Reformation of the (now weakened) shield wall? Firing arrows over the top of this shield wall in order to hit the rear of the army? Attacking and breaking the weakened shield wall? Is a certain group extra relevant? such as knights? Or archers? Is a certain person in the battle relevant? The terrain? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1055 Registered: 6-2008 |
Enzymes relevant?No Catalysts?Not particularly Relevant part of the battle: shooting arrows at the shield wall?This Charging it? Throwing stuff downhill at the attacking enemy? Breaking of the shield wall to pursue the enemy? Counterattack on the now broken shield wall? Reformation of the (now weakened) shield wall? Firing arrows over the top of this shield wall in order to hit the rear of the army?And this Attacking and breaking the weakened shield wall? Is a certain group extra relevant? such as knights? Or archers? Is a certain person in the battle relevant? The terrain?No to all else | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5603 Registered: 4-2010 |
The chemical reaction - does it involve a strong acid? Base? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1059 Registered: 6-2008 |
The chemical reaction - does it involve a strong acid? Base? Irr. to both. I don't think the reaction the professor said about it involved either, but it could just as well have | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5629 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do the chemicals in the reaction react in a similar manner to the battle? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1061 Registered: 6-2008 |
Do the chemicals in the reaction react in a similar manner to the battle? For svv. of "similar manner", yes. Remember it was a rather silly analogy. Hint: Note my reply to the question about arrows. Arrows are notably used for something in organic chemistry... | ||
| Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member Username: Gregoryuconn Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2010 |
Are the arrows used in organic chemistry actual physical arrows (ie like those the army used, archery arrows, etc.)? Or are they drawings of arrows? (Ie x->y the -> is an arrow, or at least a poor computer rendering of one)? Like to show a connection between two or more things? Like Na+Cl->NaCl? (In other words Sodium+Chloride yields Sodium Chloride, aka table salt)? Or some other equation of reaction between two or more elements or substances? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1841 Registered: 7-2009 |
I remember drawing a lot of arrows for "pushing" electrons around in mechanisms. Relevant? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1062 Registered: 6-2008 |
Are the arrows used in organic chemistry actual physical arrows (ie like those the army used, archery arrows, etc.)?No Or are they drawings of arrows? (Ie x->y the -> is an arrow, or at least a poor computer rendering of one)?Yes Like to show a connection between two or more things? Like Na+Cl->NaCl? (In other words Sodium+Chloride yields Sodium Chloride, aka table salt)?But this is not the relevant use Or some other equation of reaction between two or more elements or substances?Not exactly an equation, but... I remember drawing a lot of arrows for "pushing" electrons around in mechanisms. Relevant?Very! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5646 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do the drawings of these "electron arrows" take the same paths (straight at, and over the top of) the "wall" of the other part of the reaction? (Does that make sense?) | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1063 Registered: 6-2008 |
Do the drawings of these "electron arrows" take the same paths (straight at, and over the top of) the "wall" of the other part of the reaction? (Does that make sense?)A "wall of a reaction" does not make sense. The closest, I guess, would be when the approach of one molecule toward the other is hindered by bulky groups. But the shield wall is irrelevant to this puzzle. The answer is much simpler. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5680 Registered: 4-2010 |
I never learned these electron arrows - I think this might be harder for me. Do the electrons jump over the "bulky groups"? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1064 Registered: 6-2008 |
I never learned these electron arrows - I think this might be harder for me.It may be, though knowing that the arrows represent electrons moving (and therefore bonds breaking and forming) is all you really need. The title of this puzzle is probably the most important hint now. Do the electrons jump over the "bulky groups"?No, there is no "over" in chemistry, as gravity (and therefore any notion of "up") is really irrelevant. And the thing about the bulky groups is irrelevant to the puzzle, too. It was just the closest I could think of to any kind of "wall" in chemistry, as an answer to your question above about whether you were making sense. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5707 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do the electrons all move at once? Rather than one at a time or in turn? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1065 Registered: 6-2008 |
Do the electrons all move at once?Yes, in the example that he made the comment about Rather than one at a time or in turn?which is more common, yes It's probably unlikely that anyone will get closer, seeing how it's going, so I'll make this a **********************SPOILER********************* In organic chemistry, arrows are used to show how electrons move as bonds are being broken or formed. This professor had told his students to resist the temptation to rearrange all the bonds that differ from a starting material and its product in one step, but to instead only move one or two at a time, as this is more feasible for molecules to do. However, he said that occasionally one will come across a reaction that takes place by a "Battle of Hastings mechanism"--with arrows flying everywhere. As I didn't know really anything about the battle, this analogy didn't make sense until I looked it up. If you like that one, there is also a more widely used expression similar to that. Carbon does not form more than four bonds, even in unstable intermediates, but this doesn't stop students from trying to draw them on their exams. So, we call them "Texas carbons", since "Everything is bigger in Texas!" | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5742 Registered: 4-2010 |
I like them both - nice one! Too bad I'm not taking any science classes this semester. |
