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Eli (Eli)
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Username: Eli

Post Number: 1467
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time for another stupidity one, while I'm waiting for my unsolved puzzle to be moved back.

I would have liked to see that job description!
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 6962
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a computer stupidity? Chinglish relevant?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1470
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a computer stupidity? Yes Chinglish relevant? Nope
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 6979
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you giving a customer tech support? Was the customer completing a resume? Customer: HAM? HAF? Did the customer claim to have lots of computer experience and expertise?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1474
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you giving a customer tech support? Yes Was the customer completing a resume? No Customer: HAM? HAF? This Did the customer claim to have lots of computer experience and expertise? Not to me, she didn't. But...
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 151
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call her Ezmerelda?
Did she work for a computer company? Someone else in the industry (like tech support?) Had she worked for one previously? Did she claim she had experience and expertise in computers to someone else? Your boss? Someone on her end? Her boss? Was she calling from work? Is her job relevant? Is she a professional hacker? And called you to ask the password for your system so she could hack into it and steal data?
Eli (Eli)
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Username: Eli

Post Number: 1478
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call her Ezmerelda? Sure, why not?
Did she work for a computer company? No Someone else in the industry (like tech support?) She was not working in a hardware or software company. But tech support is not too far off the mark. Had she worked for one previously? Irr Did she claim she had experience and expertise in computers to someone else? Obviously Your boss? But not her Someone on her end? Yes Her boss? Most likely Was she calling from work? Yes Is her job relevant? Yes Is she a professional hacker? Nope And called you to ask the password for your system so she could hack into it and steal data? and no
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 7005
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she work at an electronics store? A well-known one?
Eli (Eli)
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Username: Eli

Post Number: 1482
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she work at an electronics store? A well-known one? No to both
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 7010
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she working at a call center?
Eli (Eli)
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Username: Eli

Post Number: 1486
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she working at a call center? No, she wasn't.
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 7017
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did her work involve computers? Was she a web page designer?
Eli (Eli)
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Username: Eli

Post Number: 1488
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did her work involve computers? Yes, it sure did Was she a web page designer? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 7022
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Posted on Monday, October 18, 2010 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she manufacture computers? But had no idea how to actually use them?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1491
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she manufacture computers? But had no idea how to actually use them? No to both. She was actually somewhat experienced in use of a computer, but....
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3525
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she having problems with computer: hardware? A specific part? Software? A peripheral?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 728
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she prove to be ignorant in handling some common (for some of us) acronyms, like NIC, MAC or OSPF? Did she have problems with computers or with some other IT or networking / telco devices (servers, SANs, routers, switches, radio relays, media-converters and such)? Was it her stupidity 'normal' for a layman, but not so in her position? (In the sense that it is perfectly normal for the average person to not know the difference, say, between IPv4 and IPv6, or between eBGP and iBGP but that would appear plainly stupid for a professional).
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1492
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk

Is she having problems with computer: hardware? A specific part? Software? A peripheral? Not a peripheral, but at the moment she called me, the cause for the problem was not certain. Could be hardware, software or some settings.

Rbruma (Rbruma)

Did she prove to be ignorant in handling some common (for some of us) acronyms, like NIC, MAC or OSPF? No acronyms relevant Did she have problems with computers or with some other IT or networking / telco devices (servers, SANs, routers, switches, radio relays, media-converters and such)? Could be either a spesific computer or networking Was it her stupidity 'normal' for a layman, but not so in her position? YES! There was something she said at the end of the call that made my jaw drop (In the sense that it is perfectly normal for the average person to not know the difference, say, between IPv4 and IPv6, or between eBGP and iBGP but that would appear plainly stupid for a professional). But none of these
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 7101
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Her stupidity: did it consist of not knowing something obvious? "Knowing" something obvious that was not true? (For her position, that is.) Would the average normal person know this?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1495
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Her stupidity: did it consist of not knowing something obvious? "Knowing" something obvious that was not true? (For her position, that is.) It should have been basic knowledge for someone in her position. Would the average normal person know this? No, not unless you're fairly interested in computers
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 760
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trying to assess the 'level' of stupidity here. Would you parallel her remark to which of the following (please note if in between)

- I didn't know that computers use electricity!
- I didn't know that most computers need RAM to work!
- I didn't know that 10/8 is a private range!
- I didn't know what complementary metal-oxide-semiconductor is!

Was her 'stupidity' related to networking at all?
Eli (Eli)
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Username: Eli

Post Number: 1497
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Trying to assess the 'level' of stupidity here. Would you parallel her remark to which of the following (please note if in between)

- I didn't know that computers use electricity!
- I didn't know that most computers need RAM to work!
- I didn't know that 10/8 is a private range! Not this, but...
- I didn't know what complementary metal-oxide-semiconductor is!

Was her 'stupidity' related to networking at all? Very much so.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 7148
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Drat...I haven't a clue what networking is.

Did she think the computers had to be touching to network?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1499
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she think the computers had to be touching to network? Nope
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 7151
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it be helpful for solving to know what networking actually is?

Did she try networking using only one computer?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 765
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's throw some of my own experiences here:

Was her confusion related to layer 1? 2? 3? 4? 7?

Did she try to access a different subnet without a router?

Did she try to telnet on port 22 or ssh on port 23?

DNS involved? Did she try to use DHCP lacking a server? Did she try to dial-up using the phone line she was talking into?

Something along these lines? File sharing relevant? Remote desktop / VNC? Fiber optic?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1502
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)

Would it be helpful for solving to know what networking actually is? Basic knowledge about network theory should be sufficient, but if you know the old Windows NT technology it would be a huge advantage.

Did she try networking using only one computer? No, but one computer is the start of this, see below

Rbruma (Rbruma)

Let's throw some of my own experiences here:

Was her confusion related to layer 1? 2? 3? 4? 7? I'd say her confusion, would be layer 7. See below.

Did she try to access a different subnet without a router?

Did she try to telnet on port 22 or ssh on port 23?

DNS involved? Did she try to use DHCP lacking a server? Did she try to dial-up using the phone line she was talking into?

Something along these lines? File sharing relevant? Remote desktop / VNC? Fiber optic? No to rest.

It was just soooo stupid, I think she blushed at the other end of the phone when we finished.

In order to get this off in the right direction, and not let you keep guessing for the next two weeks, lol, I'll give the first part away. She calls in to me (at that time I was doing commercial desktop support, so no home computers), because she has problems connecting a new computer to the company network.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 767
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she know that the computer was supposed to have a working NIC? That that was supposed to be connected with a straight cable to a hub or switch? That a suitable IP address and a mask be configured manually or automatically? Was she in trouble differentiating between workgroups and domains?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1503
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she know that the computer was supposed to have a working NIC? Yes That that was supposed to be connected with a straight cable to a hub or switch? Yes That a suitable IP address and a mask be configured manually or automatically? Yope Was she in trouble differentiating between workgroups and domains?No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3598
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Posted on Monday, October 25, 2010 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the computer successfully connected to the network? Did she think something was wrong which wasn't? Relevant how she checked if she had connection? Did she forget to get (or set) an IP?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1505
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Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2010 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the computer successfully connected to the network? No, it not connect successfully, but all the physical components were there. She didn't forget to connect the cable for instance. Did she think something was wrong which wasn't? Not really, she wasn't sure what was wrong Relevant how she checked if she had connection? Not really Did she forget to get (or set) an IP? Not forget, she was just not allocated one, that was the reason why she called us.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 6:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this a wireless network? Did she connect to another network?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1508
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this a wireless network? Did she connect to another network? No to both
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The reason she was not allocated an IP - was it directly related to her stupidity? Was this on a dial-up line? Was her computer not hooked up to the phone jack?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The reason she was not allocated an IP - was it directly related to her stupidity? No, good question. She didn't really do anything stupid until later. Or better - she said something stupid. Was this on a dial-up line? No Was her computer not hooked up to the phone jack? and this is not correct either
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 1511
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A quick recap/hint

This woman is calling in to our business support line because a new desktop is not connecting to the network and so not allocated an IP address. I asked her to go in to network properties, just to check that all network components, like protocols, actually were installed. They were. So what would the next thing be to ask her to do?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

See if you have a link on the interface? Do a ipconfig /all on a cmd prompt? Reset the TCP/IP stack (though I don't know how to do this on a windows system)? Reboot? Try to put a static IP/Mask/GW?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

See if you have a link on the interface? Do a ipconfig /all on a cmd prompt? Reset the TCP/IP stack (though I don't know how to do this on a windows system)? Reboot? Try to put a static IP/Mask/GW? The last one is the final suggestion so I give the bits in-between. I asked her to ping. First 127.0.0.1 and that responded. So I told her that it seemed to be configured properly, but that it could of course be a faulty network card. So I asked her to ping the card. Then followed the first "stupid" reply - 'but I cannot connect to the DHCP server so there is of course no IP-address'. She didn't say Stupid, but the tone of her voice very much indicated so, lol. I told her that I meant that she found an unused IP address in the pool, reserved it and set that as a static IP address on the card. Now what happened?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she ask when the pool was open so she could go swimming?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she ask when the pool was open so she could go swimming? No, not quiet THAT stupid, lol.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she put a conflicting IP address? Not trying to verify that it was unused? Did she manage to identify the pool of IP addresses that the DHCP server was using?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she put a conflicting IP address? Not trying to verify that it was unused? Did she manage to identify the pool of IP addresses that the DHCP server was using? No to all. The stupidity was related to something she said.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she ask how to set a static IP address? What is a static IP address? Did she reply that for some reason a static IP address cannot be set? Not by her? Not on that machine?

Random thought: did he ask you to connect remotely and do this for her (I suppose not, since that would be really stupid for a single-homed machine)?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she ask how to set a static IP address? Yes, partly this. She actually asked about the whole process, both reserving an address and setting it What is a static IP address? Did she reply that for some reason a static IP address cannot be set? Not by her? Not on that machine? No to rest

Random thought: did he ask you to connect remotely and do this for her (I suppose not, since that would be really stupid for a single-homed machine)? Nope

So what's left to find out, is my reply to her inquiry and her response to that again
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you ask her to go to another working machine and try to ping repeatedly addresses from her class, until one was not responding, and put that one on? Or to ping the broadcast address? To check the ARP table? To log on to the DHCP server and see the allocation table?

Might be some windows-specific procedure here but I'm illiterate in windows machines, dealing for years mainly with unix...
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you ask her to go to another working machine and try to ping repeatedly addresses from her class, until one was not responding, and put that one on? Or to ping the broadcast address? To check the ARP table? To log on to the DHCP server and see the allocation table? No to all

Might be some windows-specific procedure here but I'm illiterate in windows machines, dealing for years mainly with unix... You don't need any spesific knowledge from now on. I simply jumped to conclusion hearing her question. It is also important to know that when she presented herself, she simply said her name and company, nothing else.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you ask her to find out the specific address she will be using? Or did you have the possibility to monitor the allocation table and just indicated to her what IP address she has to enter?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 12:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you ask her to find out the specific address she will be using? Or did you have the possibility to monitor the allocation table and just indicated to her what IP address she has to enter? No to all. In fact, I was doing hardware tech support, not sw. So I wasn't allowed to "teach" customers Windows, for instance.

She calls in, introduces herself (by name only) and the company she's working for, saying that they have a new desktop/workstation that has problems connecting to the network, as it is not allocated an IP-address from the DHCP server. Which of course indicates no communication between the two units. So I ask her the above questions, like checking network settings to see if all components were installed and pinging 127.0.0.1. When I then tell her to ping the card, she responds in a patronising voice that 'ping what??? I don't get an IP-address from the server'. So I tell her that she has to reserve an address in the pool and use that to set a static IP address on the card. Her response was 'and how do I do that?' What follows is not technical at all. Just me jumping to conclusion, because of her response.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would expect that your response was something like : "go get your company's IT professional to set it for you"? And her response was "I am the IT professional"?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would expect that your response was something like : "go get your company's IT professional to set it for you"? And her response was "I am the IT professional"? Yes!

and that is the SPOILER. When she asked how to do it, I assumed that she was confident around computers, but not the IT admin. So I told her to contact her IT admin, who would know what to do. To which she replied 'Well, that is me'. If you can get a job as IT admin, with the pay that comes with it, without knowing essential things like that, I would have liked to have seen that job description when the job was advertised. Might have wanted to apply for it myself, lol
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2010 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice one Eli, the last thing I would have thought is that she indeed was the IT admin.

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