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Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 512
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've got two sets of keys for my flat. Each one is on a different key ring. I usually use the first key ring, and in this case I only use one key to enter my flat. Still, sometimes I use the other key ring, and in this case I need to use 2 keys. How come?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 836
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you have two locks on your front door?

Do you use both of the keys to open your front door (of the flat)? Or maybe you use one to open the front door of the building?

Is it relevant if anyone is at home at the point you're coming? If someone opens a door for you?

Do you keep both rings with you? Are the keys on the two rings identical?

Random thought: do you actually have two flats? And are using different keys for entering different houses?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 513
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you have two locks on your front door? Yes

Do you use both of the keys to open your front door (of the flat)? Yes Or maybe you use one to open the front door of the building? So no

Is it relevant if anyone is at home at the point you're coming? If someone opens a door for you? No to both

Do you keep both rings with you? No, good q. Are the keys on the two rings identical? Yes, for what concerns the keys which are relevant to the puzzle

Random thought: do you actually have two flats? And are using different keys for entering different houses? Nice thought, but no
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 837
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how much time you are away, when using keyring 1 or 2?

Do you have the habit of locking both locks when going to work for example? Or -- considering myself now -- are you only using both locks when going away for a larger period of time, like in holidays or in a delegation?

Do you sometimes simply forget to lock the second one so you obviously would not need a second key?

Do you keep one of the keyrings at the office? At home? In another house?

Is the function of the keys simply to get pass the front door? Or are you using one for disabling an alarm? Or for checking mail? For parking the car in a garage?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 514
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how much time you are away, when using keyring 1 or 2? No

Do you have the habit of locking both locks when going to work for example? No, good q. Or -- considering myself now -- are you only using both locks when going away for a larger period of time, like in holidays or in a delegation? No, irrel

Do you sometimes simply forget to lock the second one so you obviously would not need a second key? No

Do you keep one of the keyrings at the office? At home? This In another house?

Is the function of the keys simply to get pass the front door? Just this Or are you using one for disabling an alarm? Or for checking mail? For parking the car in a garage? So no to rest
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Username: Rbruma

Post Number: 840
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you using both sets of keys to enter your flat? Or maybe one is used to actually exit it, for example in the morning while unlocking your door?

If you are using them to enter the flat, is it relevant why in that particular instance you took keyring #2 with you?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 515
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you using both sets of keys to enter your flat? Yes Or maybe one is used to actually exit it, for example in the morning while unlocking your door? No, nothing like this

If you are using them to enter the flat, is it relevant why in that particular instance you took keyring #2 with you? Yes, and a small FA here
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 7505
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you typically lock one lock when going out? Are the two keys on keyring 2 the same? Do they fit both locks? Same questions for keyring 1?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 516
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you typically lock one lock when going out? Yes Are the two keys on keyring 2 the same? No, they are different Do they fit both locks? Same questions for keyring 1? Assume each keyring has 2 keys, and each key on each ring opens one of the two locks. The rings are exactly identical from the puzzle point of view. I do have more keys (mail, office, basement, etc.) on keyring 1, but this is almost totally irrelevant.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Username: Rbruma

Post Number: 842
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA that there are more than one instance when you use keyring nr 2?

When you take keyring nr 2, is it because nr 1 is unavailable? Given to another person? Do you (when using k2) actually lock both locks? Do you try to signal something? Is anyone else relevant?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 517
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA that there are more than one instance when you use keyring nr 2? No, it concerns something else written in that phrase

When you take keyring nr 2, is it because nr 1 is unavailable? No Given to another person? So no Do you (when using k2) actually lock both locks? same FA :-) Do you try to signal something? No Is anyone else relevant? Yes
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 843
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant person: H? A? M? Living with you? Living in the same building? An acquaintance? A friend? A relative? The well known thief who lives nearby?

Do you lock the locks at all? Only one? (When using k2) Does anyone else lock them and you just unlock them?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I feel like there's something obvious here that I'm missing, but I'm sure there isn't...

Are you the only person that uses these keyrings?
Are any keys ever removed from either keyring? If so, is this done regularly?

Is it relevant to know where the keys are stored when they aren't being carried? Like, are they put into a drawer? Hung on a hook? Kept in someone's pocket? Put on a shelf?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 518
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant person: H? A? M? HAF Living with you? No Living in the same building? No An acquaintance? This is closest A friend? A relative? The well known thief who lives nearby? No to rest

Do you lock the locks at all? Yes Only one? Yes (When using k2) FA :-) Does anyone else lock them and you just unlock them? YES! Good point here!

Are you the only person that uses these keyrings? No
Are any keys ever removed from either keyring? If so, is this done regularly? No to both

Is it relevant to know where the keys are stored when they aren't being carried? Yope Like, are they put into a drawer? Hung on a hook? Usually this, but it will put you on the wrong path... Kept in someone's pocket? Put on a shelf?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 3076
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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So you must use 2 keys to enter on occasions when another person has entered before you and locked both locks?

Here's what I think I'm missing...
The door has 2 locks?
Each lock requires a different key?
If both locks are locked, you must open one lock with KEY 1 and then the other with KEY 2?
Do both keyrings have a KEY 1 and KEY 2?

When you are preparing to leave the flat, do you choose which keyring to take based on the places you'll be going that day? Do you have the option to take either keyring? Or sometimes has 1 of them already been taken by the other person?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 519
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So you must use 2 keys to enter on occasions when another person has entered before you and locked both locks? That's not strictly correct, but we may assume so for the moment

Here's what I think I'm missing...
The door has 2 locks? Yes
Each lock requires a different key? Yes
If both locks are locked, you must open one lock with KEY 1 and then the other with KEY 2? Yes
Do both keyrings have a KEY 1 and KEY 2? Yes

When you are preparing to leave the flat, do you choose which keyring to take based on the places you'll be going that day? No, I always take keyring 1 Do you have the option to take either keyring? I could, but I never do it Or sometimes has 1 of them already been taken by the other person? No, but OTRT
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

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Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2010 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you lock one of the locks with the keys? From the outside? Or do you lock one of them before going out? Do you always lock the same one? Or is it a different one each time?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 520
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you lock one of the locks with the keys? Yes From the outside? Yes Or do you lock one of them before going out? No Do you always lock the same one? Yes Or is it a different one each time? So no, though this is irrelevant, the puzzle would work the same even if I locked a different one each time
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Username: Woodworm

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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other person: is she your flatmate? Landlady? Cleaning lady? Is she inside the flat when you use ring 1? Is she inside the flat when you use ring 2? Do you double-lock the flat with ring 2 if she has taken ring 1, in order to signify that you're out when she gets back?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 522
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The other person: is she your flatmate? Landlady? Cleaning lady? THIS! Is she inside the flat when you use ring 1? No Is she inside the flat when you use ring 2? Neither Do you double-lock the flat with ring 2 if she has taken ring 1, in order to signify that you're out when she gets back? None of these is true, but you're thinking along the right lines
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Username: Woodworm

Post Number: 2265
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify: two rings, each containing Key 1 and Key 2, right? And both Key 1s are identical? And both Key 2s are identical? And we're talking about a single door? Not a front and a back door? Are any other locks relevant, such as the communal one to the block of flats?

And you ALWAYS take Ring 1, and only Ring 1, with you when you go out, yes? But you could take Ring 2 if you wanted?

When you go out, is ring 2:

with the cleaning lady, who is outside the flat?
inside the flat?
elsewhere (eg in a plant-pot outside the block)?

Does a third copy exist of either 1 or 2? Does the cleaning lady have a single key on her person? Is a master key involved at all? Does she have a semi-master that will open all flats in a block, for example?

If you chose to take ring 2 with you when you went out, would you use key 1? key 2?

When you take ring 1 with you, do you use key 1? key 2?

Do you completely trust your cleaning lady?

Is either bunch of keys left dangling in the lock at any relevant point in the puzzle? If so, is this on the inside? On the outside?

Do you EVER double-lock any door at any time that's relevant?
Noel (Noel)
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Username: Noel

Post Number: 1977
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the cleaning lady lock both locks when she leaves? Whereas you only lock one?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 523
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify: two rings, each containing Key 1 and Key 2, right? Yes And both Key 1s are identical? Yes And both Key 2s are identical? Yes And we're talking about a single door? Exactly Not a front and a back door? No, a single door is relevant Are any other locks relevant, such as the communal one to the block of flats? No, only the two locks on the flat door

And you ALWAYS take Ring 1, and only Ring 1, with you when you go out, yes? Yes But you could take Ring 2 if you wanted? Yes, I could

When you go out, is ring 2:

with the cleaning lady, who is outside the flat?
inside the flat? This...
elsewhere (eg in a plant-pot outside the block)? ... or this, on the days when cleaning lady is supposed to come! Good point here! Actually it's not in a plant pot, it's in the fuses cabinet :-)

Does a third copy exist of either 1 or 2? No Does the cleaning lady have a single key on her person? No Is a master key involved at all? Neither Does she have a semi-master that will open all flats in a block, for example? No, nothing like this

If you chose to take ring 2 with you when you went out, would you use key 1? key 2? Not sure I understand the question. Depends on if it's a cleaning day or not :-)

When you take ring 1 with you, do you use key 1? This, but irrelevant key 2?

Do you completely trust your cleaning lady? Yes

Is either bunch of keys left dangling in the lock at any relevant point in the puzzle? No, never If so, is this on the inside? On the outside?

Do you EVER double-lock any door at any time that's relevant? No

Does the cleaning lady lock both locks when she leaves? Whereas you only lock one? EXACTLY SO!

Now most of the puzzle is solved, but we still miss a small step to the complete solution.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the cleaning lady have Keyring 1 when she locks the doors? So you have no choice but to use Keyring 2?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 524
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the cleaning lady have Keyring 1 when she locks the doors? So you have no choice but to use Keyring 2? No, she has keyring 2... the reason is sillier :-)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she actually give you Keyring 2? Does she think that Keyring 1 won't work in the locks? So she has you use Keyring 2?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well it can't be any sillier than a pripple...

Is there a reason that the cleaning lady prefers keyring 2? Is there some kind of fob or charm attached to it? Is there something else relevant attached to it? I'm thinking it's maybe something like keyring 2 has a little flashlight attached to it, and the cleaning lady has to go somewhere dark to get the keyring and she likes to have the light on to see her way back out of the dark place...
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2010 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you use keyring 2 only on days when the cleaning lady has been there? Perhaps you pick it up from the hiding place to bring it back inside? And since it's in your hands anyway, you use that one instead of keyring 1?
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 525
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll skip Balin and Ixoye's questions 'cause Noel got it right :-)

Do you use keyring 2 only on days when the cleaning lady has been there? Perhaps you pick it up from the hiding place to bring it back inside? And since it's in your hands anyway, you use that one instead of keyring 1? EXACTLY SO!

On normal days, I use to lock only onle lock of my door, using key 1 of keyring 1. I bring keyring 1 with me because I have other keys on it than just the flat keys (mail, office, building, etc.)
On days when the cleaning lady comes, I lock my door as usual, plus I hide keyring 2 (which has only the two flat keys on it) in a fuses cabinet close to my door. She comes, does her job, then when she leaves she locks both locks (probably for security matters) and puts the keyring back in the cabinet. When I go home, I pick keyring 2 from the cabinet and use it to enter my flat, since it's already in my hands, and I have to use both key 1 and key 2 to open the door.
Which means SPOILER, of course :-)
Thanks everybody for playing, hope you enjoyed, and kudos to Noel for getting twice the right ideas!
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Username: Woodworm

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Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Neat!
Kalira (Kalira)
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Username: Kalira

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Posted on Friday, October 29, 2010 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, what this really means is that now we know how to get into Mattiel's flat when he's not there... hmm... LTPF party in Switzerland, everyone! WOO! ;-D
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Username: Ixoye724

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Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 3:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That was enjoyable - excellent job of making an everyday routine into a puzzle!
Mattiel (Mattiel)
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Username: Mattiel

Post Number: 526
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ha ha you're the most welcome! :-) Glad you enjoyed the puzzle!

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