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Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2426
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Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As the nights grew longer, it tended to get shorter.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 907
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Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The nights grew longer: in autumn? summer? On the planet Earth?

It: a timespan? distance?

tended: Were there exceptions to the rule? So it sometimes got longer? Stayed the same length?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2427
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Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The nights grew longer: in autumn? this one summer? no On the planet Earth? yes

It: a timespan? yes, a timespan distance? not this

tended: Were there exceptions to the rule? it's possible, but let's assume not: 'it got shorter' would do just fine So it sometimes got longer? no Stayed the same length? no
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Daylight savings relevant? Working hours? Would this observation be valid in all parts of the world?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2428
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Posted on Thursday, November 25, 2010 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Daylight savings relevant? no Working hours? no Would this observation be valid in all parts of the world? yes, it would
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 8811
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 1:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shorter: in time? In height? In length (inches, meters, etc.)?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2429
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shorter: in time? this one In height? In length (inches, meters, etc.)? shorter in time, not in distance
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3096
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm tempted to say that the obvious answer is that as the nights got longer the days got shorter!

Is this the length of time an activity takes to do? a hobby? a task? a journey?

Any relevant media? sports? arts?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2430
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm tempted to say that the obvious answer is that as the nights got longer the days got shorter! Hehe

Is this the length of time an activity takes to do? yes, this one a hobby? for svv thereof, I suppose a task? for svv of 'task', too a journey? no

Any relevant media? not really sports? noarts? yes, the arts are relevant
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1045
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any causality link between the two? In the sense that it got shorter because the nights grew longer?

Is it relevant that the past is used? It happened only once? Is it happening also this autumn (what is left of it, anyway)? It also happened ten years ago? In 1789?

Arts: music? picture? sculpture? architecture? other?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Working on a theory here....

Any relevant song lyric?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2431
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any causality link between the two? yes, an indirect one In the sense that it got shorter because the nights grew longer? not direct, like this

Is it relevant that the past is used? yes It happened only once? no: it happened several times Is it happening also this autumn (what is left of it, anyway)? no It also happened ten years ago? no In 1789? and certainly not in this year

Arts: music? this one picture? sculpture? architecture? other?

Working on a theory here....

Any relevant song lyric? nope
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 8823
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Music - singing? Playing an instrument? Is a certain artist or band relevant? Is a specific song relevant?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2433
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Music - singing? no Playing an instrument? this one Is a certain artist or band relevant? yes, a solo performer Is a specific song relevant? an instrumental piece, yes, but it would work for any piece of this type
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 910
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the time it takes to play the piece get shorter? Because he plays faster? Leaves out parts?

Is there an audience which listens to the piece? Relevant?

Does he play outdoors? Maybe his concerts get shorter in autumn because it gets colder and people don't want to listen for a long time?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the time it takes to play the piece get shorter? yes Because he plays faster? no: but good thinking Leaves out parts? yes, this one

Is there an audience which listens to the piece? yes Relevant? very much so

Does he play outdoors? no Maybe his concerts get shorter in autumn because it gets colder and people don't want to listen for a long time? another nice idea, but not this
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he completely leave out parts of the piece? Or does he only leave out reprises?

Is the audience always more or less the same?

Does he play in a concert hall? Somewhere else where listening to the music is what the audience mainly does? Or part of a performance which includes other forms of art (as in a musical, a dance demonstration etc.)? Or otherwise not the only important thing (e.g. he plays in a pub)? Does the audience dance to the music?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he completely leave out parts of the piece? this Or does he only leave out reprises? not just this

Is the audience always more or less the same? at various performances: probably not

Does he play in a concert hall? yes Somewhere else where listening to the music is what the audience mainly does? no: it is a regular concert hall Or part of a performance which includes other forms of art (as in a musical, a dance demonstration etc.)? no Or otherwise not the only important thing (e.g. he plays in a pub)? no Does the audience dance to the music? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he leave out the same parts of the piece? Different ones? Does he leave out parts that the audience has heard before?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he leave out the same parts of the piece? irrel Different ones? irrel Does he leave out parts that the audience has heard before? perhaps, but not really relevant
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he always play the same piece (possibly with omissions)? Does he play more than one piece? If so: Does he only omit parts of one piece or of several ones?

Can the relevant piece(s) be described as religious music? Do the piece(s) or its composer's remarks in any way refer to seasons of year? Did he compose the piece(s) himself?

Is the identity of the musician relevant? Is he famous? Was he at the relevant time?

LTPF list of centuries, please - for the performance and, if relevant, for the composer.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he always play the same piece (possibly with omissions)? no, he plays various things Does he play more than one piece? well, he may, but the story only applies to one piece ...

If so: Does he only omit parts of one piece this one or of several ones?

Can the relevant piece(s) be described as religious music? no Do the piece(s) or its composer's remarks in any way refer to seasons of year? no, but a nice idea Did he compose the piece(s) himself? he did, yes: good q

Is the identity of the musician relevant? to a small degree, yes Is he famous? very much so Was he at the relevant time? indeed

LTPF list of centuries, please - for the performance and, if relevant, for the composer. the 20th

And (why not) let me tell you that he was Sergei Rachmaninov, and that the piece in question was the Variations on a Theme of Corelli, Opus 42.

Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he leave out parts of his Variations because he expected his audience wanted it? Because he wanted to do so himself? Because someone else expected it?

Was the general reason why he omitted parts of his piece to save time? Was it only a coincidence that the omissions took place in autumn? Did the concerts get shorter in general due to the omissions? Or was this compensated by him playing other pieces? Longer pieces? Another musician(s) performing before/after his performance?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he leave out parts of his Variations because he expected his audience wanted it? yes Because he wanted to do so himself? possibly, but primarily the above Because someone else expected it? no

Was the general reason why he omitted parts of his piece to save time? no Was it only a coincidence that the omissions took place in autumn? very yopish and hard to answer ... you see, the autumnal connection is my extrapolation, for the purposes of the puzzle

Did the concerts get shorter in general due to the omissions? no other pieces are relevant, but I expect that the overall length of the concert was shorter when he chose to truncate the lovely Op.42

Or was this compensated by him playing other pieces? Longer pieces? Another musician(s) performing before/after his performance? so, none of these
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there any important change in the composition of the audience? Maybe more musically uneducated people attended and he expected them not to be able or willing to concentrate over the full length of his piece?

Did he decide about omissions before the concerts? Or only during the concerts? Maybe after looking at the audience's behaviour?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there any important change in the composition of the audience? no Maybe more musically uneducated people attended and he expected them not to be able or willing to concentrate over the full length of his piece? hehe, no

Did he decide about omissions before the concerts? no: good q Or only during the concerts? yes, during Maybe after looking at the audience's behaviour not this, but OTRT
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he decide about omissions before starting to play Op.42? Or while he played it? Was Op.42 usually the first piece he played? The last one?

He didn't look at the audience's behaviour to decide. Did he look at anything? Listen? Smell? Taste? Feel? Temperature relevant?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he decide about omissions before starting to play Op.42? no Or while he played it? this one Was Op.42 usually the first piece he played? irrel ... The last one? but most likely this

He didn't look at the audience's behaviour to decide. Did he look at anything? Listen? this one Smell? Taste? Feel? Temperature relevant? not the others ...

Nearly there ...
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 8:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he listen to the audience? To his own instrument? Maybe for signs it was getting out of tune? Or for another decline in sound quality? Room acoustics relevant?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he listen to the audience? yes To his own instrument? yes, but irrel Maybe for signs it was getting out of tune? no Or for another decline in sound quality? no Room acoustics relevant? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he listen to the level of their applause? And that told him how interested in his playing they were? Which was the basis for his choice on whether or not to omit parts?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he listen to the level of their applause? no And that told him how interested in his playing they were? but OTRT Which was the basis for his choice on whether or not to omit parts?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he listen to the noise made in the audience? People leaving? Doors opening or closing? Something outside the concert hall? Thunders indicating an upcoming storm?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he listen to the noise made in the audience? yes People leaving? no Doors opening or closing? no Something outside the concert hall? no Thunders indicating an upcoming storm? no
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he notice a certain noise or rather the lack of a familiar one? Was the audience aware that by making that noise (or refraining from making it) the composer will shorten his performance? Was it a specific group of people in the audience making the noise (or refraining from making it), or it was the public as a whole?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2453
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Posted on Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he notice a certain noise or rather the lack of a familiar one? he noticed a certain noise Was the audience aware that by making that noise (or refraining from making it) the composer will shorten his performance? no, probably not Was it a specific group of people in the audience making the noise (or refraining from making it), or it was the public as a whole? some members of the audience, but not everyone
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2010 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he notice people coughing? Sneezing? Audible signs of general unrest?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 2454
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Posted on Sunday, November 28, 2010 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he notice people coughing? specifically this ... Sneezing? Audible signs of general unrest?

**** SPOILER ****

This story comes from one of the late letters of Rachmaninov. He was notoriously sensitive, as many musicians are. After bad reviews of the First Symphony, he very nearly gave up composing altogether. Which would have been terrible news for lovers of Brief Encounter, Classic FM producers, and those who get paid for piping music into lifts.

During his performances of the Corelli Variations, he used to snip out three or four variations if he heard the audience coughing, thinking that it was a sign of boredom. Which, given the length of the Corelli Variations, it probably was.

But since coughs and sniffles are commoner in the autumn and winter months, it occurred to me that, as the nights got longer, so his piece got shorter. I wonder if anyone noticed.

Well done Markobr and everyone else.

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