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Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 1141
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Earlier this week I asked a group of complete strangers to change the subject they were talking about. Even though they were not being offensive in any way, and had not met me before they understood why I asked this and happily complied. Why?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they likely have complied if any other person asked them to change the subject?

Is something specific about you relevant? Occupation? Physical appearance?

Location relevant?

True story? "I" = you, Kdoc?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Balin - thanks for playing - I haven't set a puzzle for years!

Would they likely have complied if any other person asked them to change the subject? yope

Is something specific about you relevant? yes Occupation? yes Physical appearance? noish

Location relevant? yes

True story? "I" = you, Kdoc? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow! How long has it been since your last set puzzle?

If archival memory serves me right...are you a doctor?

Were you indoors? Outdoors? In a hospital? Or doctor's office?

Is your clothing relevant? Were you wearing work clothes?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh, you're the one I've seen referred to as 'Clever Hannah'! ^_^ definitely an awesome name :-) bet this shall be a clever puzzle then!!
LTPF List of Occupations:
artistic/musical/writer?
Banking/financial/real estate?
Clerical/Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 1144
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow! How long has it been since your last set puzzle? Couple of years i think... I mostly lurk and question Felicia Nimue!

If archival memory serves me right...are you a doctor? yes, but ...

Were you indoors? yes Outdoors? noIn a hospital? no Or doctor's office? no

Is your clothing relevant? not really Were you wearing work clothes? yes

oh, you're the one I've seen referred to as 'Clever Hannah'! ^_^ definitely an awesome name :-) bet this shall be a clever puzzle then!! *blush* that's Just Felicia Nimue being nice - don't expect too much!
LTPF List of Occupations:
artistic/musical/writer?
Banking/financial/real estate?
Clerical/Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ? yes
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ? yes
Politics / Government / Military ?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
no to the rest
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 10592
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you in a school? Do you work at a medical school? The group of people - students? H? A? M?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you in a school? yesish Do you work at a medical school? yes - this is correct The group of people - students? yes H? yes A?yes M? no, female
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you in a school? yesish Do you work at a medical school? yes - this is correct The group of people - students? yes H? yes A?yes M? no, female
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the same situation happened except you were male, would they still have changed the subject?

Was their discussion related to a certain class? That they were taking? That you were teaching?

Were you in a medical school? The one you work at? Do you attend classes as well?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the same situation happened except you were male, would they still have changed the subject? mm, yesish. But possible FA

Was their discussion related to a certain class? no That they were taking? no That you were teaching? no

Were you in a medical school? yes The one you work at? yes Do you attend classes as well? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the change of the subject turn out to be beneficial to them? They gained something? They avoided loss? Avoided being ridicule?

The initial subject of conversation concerned: school, medicine, private issues, recent event?

Did you suggest changing subject of conversation because: it was offending? it was private? it was somehow inapropriate? they were not right in what they said? someone was near who shouldn't hear the conversation?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the change of the subject turn out to be beneficial to them? no They gained something? no They avoided loss? no Avoided being ridicule? no

The initial subject of conversation concerned: school,no medicine, ish.. private issues, no recent event? yes

Did you suggest changing subject of conversation because: it was offending? no it was private? no it was somehow inapropriate? noish they were not right in what they said? no someone was near who shouldn't hear the conversation? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you the one who shouldn't hear the conversation?

Recent event - something newsworthy? Scandalous? Really good? Just an ordinary event? Something related to school? Medicine?

Were you involved in the event? Were they?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter what you change the subject to?

Subject = topic of conversation? Not subject = subject of sentence/experiment or similar linguistic jiggery-pokery?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you the one who shouldn't hear the conversation?no

Recent event - something newsworthy? no Scandalous? no Really good? no Just an ordinary event? yesish Something related to school? yes Medicine? yesish

Were you involved in the event? yes Were they? yes
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter what you change the subject to? no

Subject = topic of conversation? yes Not subject = subject of sentence/experiment or similar linguistic jiggery-pokery? no - just topic of conversation
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A test? Exam?

Were you teaching the students?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A test? Exam? yes

Were you teaching the students? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 07, 2011 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The comments on the exam were positive? negative? Could the conversation put the group into trouble if heard by the one who shouldn't hear it?
The one who shouldn't hear it: a dean? a teacher? other students?
Shouldn't hear it because: comments were offensive? comments were injust, unfair? comments could give anybody unfair advantage on this exam in future?
You said before that the group hadn't met you before, yet you were involved in the same event... You were involved in the event in the way you didn't meet the group? For example you prepared exam questions/tasks but weren't present during the exam?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The comments on the exam were positive? irrel negative? irrel Could the conversation put the group into trouble if heard by the one who shouldn't hear it? no
The one who shouldn't hear it: a dean? no a teacher? no other students? yope
Shouldn't hear it because: comments were offensive? no comments were injust, unfair? no comments could give anybody unfair advantage on this exam in future? yesish
You said before that the group hadn't met you before, yet you were involved in the same event... You were involved in the event in the way you didn't meet the group? yes For example you prepared exam questions/tasks but weren't present during the exam? not this
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the exam been given yet? By you? To them?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they finally realize that you were involved in the exam too? Did they deduce it from your asking to change subject of conversation?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the exam been given yet? yope By you? yope To them? yope

Did they finally realize that you were involved in the exam too? yes Did they deduce it from your asking to change subject of conversation? partly
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you proctoring the exam? Writing it? Grading it? Were they discussing questions on it? Planning to cheat on it?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the exam conducted in groups? So that several people have already had the exam, while other people are still waiting for it? And the conversation could reveal the exam questions to the latter group?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you proctoring the exam? I'm not familiar with that term but expect it means what I would call 'invigilating' - which is correct i.e it was my job to be in the room to make sure correct procedures were followed Writing it? no Grading it? no Were they discussing questions on it? yes Planning to cheat on it? no

Is the exam conducted in groups? yes So that several people have already had the exam, yes while other people are still waiting for it? no And the conversation could reveal the exam questions to the latter group? yes - but slight FA
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this situation happen during the exam? For example few people finished earlier and started discussing questions in the exam hall? So you had to ask them to stop, because it was against the exam procedures?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this situation happen during the exam? yope For example few people finished earlier and started discussing questions in the exam hall? no So you had to ask them to stop, because it was against the exam procedures? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When exactly it happened in relation to the exam: before? after? after one question series before another? after testing one group of students before testing another group? during a pause in the exam?
You suggested changing topic because: you were supposed to do so? it was your job to do so? it was just your free will? you wanted to avoid the details of exam going to public?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When exactly it happened in relation to the exam: before? no after? yope after one question series before another? mmm.. yope? after testing one group of students before testing another group? yope during a pause in the exam?yesish...
You suggested changing topic because: you were supposed to do so? probably it was your job to do so? probably it was just your free will? this as well you wanted to avoid the details of exam going to public? not to the public as such..

sorry - these are difficult to answer because of the exact timing of the conversation. It would be very useful to find out where this took place..
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We established already that it happened at the medical school. Exact place at school is relevant? Exam hall? Lecture hall? Corridor? Teacher's cabinet? Bathroom? Laboratory of some kind? If the latter - was it a practical exam then?
But it was constant conversation, wasn't it? It wasn't like one part now, another part then...
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We established already that it happened at the medical school. yes Exact place at school is relevant? yes Exam hall? Lecture hall? Corridor? Teacher's cabinet? Bathroom? this Laboratory of some kind? If the latter - was it a practical exam then?
But it was constant conversation, wasn't it? yes It wasn't like one part now, another part then... no - I meant that the exact timing in relationship to the exam is important
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A few people went to the bathroom during the exam and there commented on questions, maybe sharing answers? Is that the case?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A few people went to the bathroom during the exam and there commented on questions, maybe sharing answers? not as a whole - but parts of this are true.. Is that the case? no - but getting nearer...
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've no idea what else to ask... Especially this timing is challenging, I thought I tried every possibility...
Could their conversation in these circumstances be considered illegal? immoral? dishonest?
Is the case something that happens commonly in connection with exams?
Which parts of my previous try are exactly true?
1)a few people?
2)during the exam?
3)commented on questions?
4)sharing answers?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've no idea what else to ask... Especially this timing is challenging, I thought I tried every possibility... you're doing very well!

Could their conversation in these circumstances be considered illegal? no immoral? no dishonest? no - they were doing nothing wrong which is why it at first seemed odd I was asking them to change the subject
Is the case something that happens commonly in connection with exams? it could do..probably not common though
Which parts of my previous try are exactly true?
1)a few people? there were a few people who were talking in the bathroom. But they didn't go there during their exam..
2)during the exam? this
3)commented on questions? yes
4)sharing answers? yes

it has already been ascertained that there were the talkers, and there was someone who should not hear what they said. Some of the answers are difficult because it depends who you are asking about..
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The people talking in the bathroom weren't having exam at the moment, right?
Another people entered the bathroom and could therefore hear the conversation about the exam, right?
Those who entered were those who should't hear the conversation, correct?
They shouldn't hear the conversation because they were having the exam at the moment or were just before the exam?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The people talking in the bathroom weren't having exam at the moment, right? correct
Another people entered the bathroom and could therefore hear the conversation about the exam, right? yes
Those who entered were those who should't hear the conversation, correct? yes
They shouldn't hear the conversation because they were having the exam at the moment yes or were just before the exam? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were you aware that someone who shouldn't hear their conversation was out of sight in one of the cubicles?
Were you anticipating how their conversation would continue?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Lynne!

Were you aware that someone who shouldn't hear their conversation was out of sight in one of the cubicles? yes
Were you anticipating how their conversation would continue? yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so there were people in the bathroom talking about recent exam, when another people went into the bathroom. Those another people were having the same exam at the moment and you knew it, as you were also involved in the exam. So you asked the people in the bathroom (the first group) to change the subject of the conversation. They understood you and complied. Correct? What else is to be found out?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so there were people in the bathroom talking about recent exam, when another people went into the bathroom. Those another people were having the same exam at the moment and you knew it, as you were also involved in the exam. So you asked the people in the bathroom (the first group) to change the subject of the conversation. They understood you and complied. Correct? What else is to be found out?
that's pretty much it - and I can $poil - but you might just want to add why I was there as I was in charge of an exam at the time..
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you need to use the bathroom? Were you looking? Were you supervising a person to the bathroom? To make sure they didn't cheat?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2011 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you need to use the bathroom? no Were you looking? no Were you supervising a person to the bathroom? yes To make sure they didn't cheat? yes

SPOILER
I was invigilating an exam which was being held in several rooms at the same time, but my group had extra time allocated to them (presumably for dyslexia or other conditions). When I accompanied one student to the toilet I realised that the 'normal' students taking the exam had recently finished and a few were starting to chat about it in the bathroom. I knew my student could overhear, and I didn't want her to be put in a difficult position - so I asked them to change the subject. they then realised I was an invigilator and that I was watching over a student still during her exam - so they happily complied

Thanks for playing. I shall go back to lurking now - it'll take me another two years to think up the next one!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2011 - 3:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clever one, Kdoc!

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