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Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1336
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We use it every day. Over three thousand years ago, it was used for a different purpose. And in the past few decades, some people have begun using it for that same purpose. What is it?

By the way, there are two very similar things that could be the answer, for all the same reasons. They sit next to each other today.
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Post Number: 706
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Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2011 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yay! Gourami, you're back!

Is "it" a tangible item?
Does "we" refer to humans? Does the country or region matter?

Do they sit next to each other in the dictionary?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 4612
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "it" manufactured? Edible? Animal, Vegetable, Mineral?

Bigger than a breadbox?

Does it require assembly?

Do "they" sit next to each other on a shelf? Perhaps in stores?
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 350
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 4:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That same purpose = The purpose from over three thousand years ago?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1340
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 4:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kaygee (Kaygee)

Yay! Gourami, you're back! It makes me happy that it makes you happy.

Is "it" a tangible item? It can be, ish.
Does "we" refer to humans? Yes, but not all. Does the country or region matter? Yes, in some places they wouldn't use it ever.

Do they sit next to each other in the dictionary? No. Good question.

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)

Is "it" manufactured? I'll say no, though it can be found in some manufactured things. Edible? No. Animal, Vegetable, Mineral? Nope.

Bigger than a breadbox? Sometimes, but often not.

Does it require assembly? No.

Do "they" sit next to each other on a shelf? No. Perhaps in stores? No.

Potato (Potato)

That same purpose = The purpose from over three thousand years ago? Yes.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Post Number: 4613
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it edible? Is it a quality attached to something else? Is it known around the world? Was it known around the world three thousand years ago?

Is it paper?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 2329
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it something that is grown? Harvested from nature? mined? excavated?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a tangible object? Is its use related to time?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 355
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the regions where people use it now, can it be found in every household? In every workplace?

Over three thousand years ago, could it have been found in every household? Could everybody have afforded it then?

Could it be used by both men and women? Both children and adults?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1341
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)

Is it edible? No. Is it a quality attached to something else? No. Is it known around the world? Not universally, but in many places. Was it known around the world three thousand years ago? No.

Is it paper? No, tiny ish.

Noel (Noel)

Is it something that is grown? Harvested from nature? mined? excavated? No to all. I could answer according to what it's made of, but that probably wouldn't help much.

Balin (Balin)

Is it a tangible object? Somewhat, sometimes. Is its use related to time? No.

Redwine (Redwine)

In the regions where people use it now, can it be found in every household? Yes. In every workplace? It'd be very difficult to find a place without one.

Over three thousand years ago, could it have been found in every household? I'm honestly not sure. Probably not. Could everybody have afforded it then? But yes.

Could it be used by both men and women? Yes. Both children and adults? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 11772
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Posted on Monday, February 07, 2011 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it an animal? A living thing?

Is the thing natural? Synthetic? Is it a fan?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1358
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Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Over three thousands years ago... was it used in China? India? Israel? Egypt? Europe? Or the expression means simply "in antiquity", without a specific reference to an exact time or place?

Since it can be both tangible and intangible: in its tangible form, is it mineral? Vegetable? Animal?

The people that do not use it: because of climate? religious beliefs? lack of usefulness?

Are there two homonyms, one referring to a tangible thing and one to an intangible one, thus sitting "next to each other"?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2011 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it normally found indoors or outdoors?

If indoors, Would it be found in a specific room of the house? If so, bathroom? kitchen? bedroom? entry way? living room? dining room? laundry room? office? hallway? closet?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1347
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Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)

Is it an animal? A living thing? No.

Is the thing natural? No. Synthetic? Man-made, yes. Is it a fan? No.

Rbruma (Rbruma)

Over three thousands years ago... was it used in China? India? Israel? Yep. Nice. Egypt? Europe? Or the expression means simply "in antiquity", without a specific reference to an exact time or place? I think 1000 BC is about right.

Since it can be both tangible and intangible: in its tangible form, is it mineral? It's not the other two, so I suppose this... Vegetable? Although the materials used in its creation may be derived from plants. Animal?

The people that do not use it: because of climate? religious beliefs? lack of usefulness? Thisish, no to rest.

Are there two homonyms, one referring to a tangible thing and one to an intangible one, thus sitting "next to each other"? Nope, interesting though.

Noel (Noel)

Would it normally found indoors or outdoors? Either, perhaps a little more common indoors.

If indoors, Would it be found in a specific room of the house? Any at all, although... If so, bathroom? kitchen? bedroom? entry way? living room? dining room? laundry room? office? This is where I'd look first. hallway? closet?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2011 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In ye olden times, was it used for religious purposes?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, February 11, 2011 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The people who didn't/do not use it, it's because they have no need for this? They already have something serving the same purpose?

Biblical stories relevant?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Friday, February 11, 2011 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Am I missing something, it is manufactured but not man made. is that correct?

Is "it" manufactured? I'll say no, though it can be found in some manufactured things.

Is the thing natural? No. Synthetic? Man-made, yes.

is it paper?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1348
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Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 12:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)

In ye olden times, was it used for religious purposes? No.

Redwine (Redwine)

The people who didn't/do not use it, it's because they have no need for this? No, but... They already have something serving the same purpose? Yes.

Biblical stories relevant? No.

Martinfg (Martinfg)

Am I missing something, it is manufactured but not man made. is that correct? Opposite: made by man, but I wouldn't quite use the words "manufactured" or "synthetic." It can be made by machines, but not necessarily.

is it paper? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 3:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is/Was the object used for temperature-related purposes?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1350
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Posted on Sunday, February 13, 2011 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)

Is/Was the object used for temperature-related purposes? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, February 14, 2011 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In its tangible form, is it bigger than: a fist? a breadbox? a microwave? a car?

Do we have to use our hands to use it?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 46
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Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2011 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so it's both tangible and intangible?

man-made? mineral, though the material from which it is made may be derived from plants?

is this because it is an object which may be made from a number of things? in a number of ways?

the office - a study in a house? an office as in place of work?

does it involve writing? reading? printing? calculating? playing? decoration?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1354
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Posted on Friday, February 25, 2011 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine (Redwine)

In its tangible form, is it bigger than: a fist? a breadbox? a microwave? a car? Usually no to all, but it could be yes to any.

Do we have to use our hands to use it? Yes (or at least it would be difficult to do otherwise.)

Shez (Shez)

so it's both tangible and intangible? Yes. It can come in many physical forms, some of which are more touch-able than others. There's also a definite intangible component to it.

man-made? Definitely. mineral, though the material from which it is made may be derived from plants? Hm, let's see...the material from which it is often but not by any means always made can come from plants or not, and the material it is usually associated with while in this form is made from plants, but the thing itself can be made from many other materials as well, or be intangible.

is this because it is an object which may be made from a number of things? In other words, YES. in a number of ways? And yes. =)

the office - a study in a house? an office as in place of work? Either would have it.

does it involve writing? Yes. reading? Yes. printing? Sure, though not very relevant to the puzzle. calculating? playing? decoration Noish to rest.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, February 25, 2011 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve ink? colors?
In its intangible form, can it be called a concept or an idea? Like "writing" - meaning the code of signs?
Is there any single, well-known inventor of this?

Does it involve writing with? Writing on?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 129
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Posted on Monday, February 28, 2011 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it's use 1000 BC recorded somewhere in particular? the OT?

or is it just generally known?

and people have recently started using it again for the same thing? is that because we've only recently found out about this use for it? or is it more of a fashion trend?

is there more than one meaning to the word(s) we're looking for?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2011 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it a map or maps?

is it something used in the construction of the first temple in Jerusalem?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Random question, though I'm sure someone would have gotten this by now: Salt and Pepper? (I'm thinking the timeframe and also "sit right next to eachother")
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1356
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Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine (Redwine)

Does it involve ink? Yes. colors? Not really.
In its intangible form, can it be called a concept or an idea? Yesish. Like "writing" - meaning the code of signs? Yes, similar.
Is there any single, well-known inventor of this? No.

Does it involve writing with? Writing on? It involves writing. =)

Shez (Shez)

was its use 1000 BC recorded somewhere in
particular? Many somewheres. the OT? But no.

or is it just generally known? Yope.

and people have recently started using it again for the same thing? Yes. is that because we've only recently found out about this use for it? Yope. or is it more of a fashion trend? No.

is there more than one meaning to the word(s) we're looking for? No to noish, may be an FA in there.

Shez (Shez)

is it a map or maps? No.

is it something used in the construction of the first temple in Jerusalem? No.

Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)

Random question, though I'm sure someone would have gotten this by now: Salt and Pepper? (I'm thinking the timeframe and also "sit right next to eachother") No, but good thought.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 04, 2011 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is one of the objects ink? Graphite? A pen? A pencil?

Any writing utensils relevant? The object written upon (paper, parchment, papyrus, etc.)?

Is chalk relevant? A chalkboard?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1357
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Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)

Is one of the objects ink? Graphite? A pen? A pencil? No to all, though it can be made of ink or graphite.

Any writing utensils relevant? The object written upon (paper, parchment, papyrus, etc.)? Not especially.

Is chalk relevant? A chalkboard? No.
Ostap (Ostap)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it letters? pictograms? alphabet? script? a tool for writing? or printing?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it a copy? a transcript? a plan? a diagram? a pattern or template?

is it an address?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 9:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can it be called a work of art? Drawing? Graphics?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a letter?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it paper (or similar) with writing in ink or pencil on it? is it a single piece? a sheaf? a scroll? a book?

is it used for reference purposes? as proof of something? communication?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2011 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Going out on a limb: Does it have to do with any of the following items - (olive) oil, blood, juice, any naturally-derived pigment, hair, an animal's tail, a stone block, a chisel, wax (petroleum or otherwise)?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1359
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ostap (Ostap)

Is it letters? Yes! pictograms? alphabet? script? a tool for writing? or printing?

Shez (Shez)

is it a copy? a transcript? a plan? a diagram? a pattern or template? See above, it could be a part of any of those things.

is it an address? No.

Redwine (Redwine)

Can it be called a work of art? I wouldn't. Drawing? In the old usage, you could. In its modern usage, no. Graphics? In its modern usage, possibly.

Shez (Shez)

a letter? Yes. =)

Shez (Shez)

is it paper (or similar) with writing in ink or pencil on it? No, rather, it is what is written. is it a single piece? a sheaf? a scroll? a book? No to rest.

is it used for reference purposes? Could be. as proof of something? Not really. communication? Yes.

Dukhsan (Dukhsan)

Going out on a limb: Does it have to do with any of the following items - (olive) oil, blood, juice, any naturally-derived pigment, hair, an animal's tail, a stone block, a chisel, wax (petroleum or otherwise)? Interesting list! Not specifically, only that most can be used for writing.

As y'all may have guessed, my internet continues to be spotty. Thanks for your patience.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

don't worry - just gives us time to think up more questions!

is it a seal? signature? illumination?

is it a letter of the alphabet?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they sit together on a keyboard?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A letter from a specific source language?
More than one?
Originally used for encryption?
(as well as communicating, one would assume)
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)

don't worry - just gives us time to think up more questions! Awesome.

is it a seal? signature? illumination? No to all.

is it a letter of the alphabet? Yes.

Shez (Shez)

do they sit together on a keyboard? They do, in fact.

Vesica (Vesica)

A letter from a specific source language? Yes.
More than one? Yes, there are two to which this can apply.
Originally used for encryption? Yope.
(as well as communicating, one would assume) Yes, there's a secondary-ish original use involved.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they sit together on a QWERTY keyboard? AZERTY? Dvorak?

Was it originally used as punctuation? As some sort of pictographic symbol?

Textspeak/lolspeak relevant?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

actually I was thinking originally of the @ symbol - which we have found a new use for! and it sits next to the # sign again with a whole new use.

but are we talking about a letter in the English alphabet from a to z? is it a hebrew letter?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 1363
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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 5:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)

Do they sit together on a QWERTY keyboard? Yes. AZERTY? Yes. Dvorak? Checking...no.

Was it originally used as punctuation? No. As some sort of pictographic symbol? Yes.

Textspeak/lolspeak relevant? Yesish to textspeak.

Shez (Shez)

actually I was thinking originally of the @ symbol - which we have found a new use for! and it sits next to the # sign again with a whole new use. You're thinking along good lines, I think.

but are we talking about a letter in the English alphabet from a to z? Yesish. is it a hebrew letter? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2011 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Capital letters relevant?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, May 06, 2011 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ASCII art relevant?
Jacek (Jacek)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi to everybody, this being my first post to this group! Here are my questions.

Did the symbol(s) look the same around 1000 BC as they look now, "sitting" on our keyboards? Were they more tangible perhaps, i.e. material objects like tools or weapons in a form that would resemble the present day letters or symbols?

Is the new application of them, similar to the old one, more likely to be practiced by some specific group of people rather then others? Are they scientists? Hobbyists of any kind? Members of a religious cult? Historians? Computer scientists? Engineers? Artists?

Is the modern usage purely artistic, or serves some other purpose?

Did the old use involve religious or cultural rituals? Divinations? Where the symbols used to mark a specific place? Or person? To convey a message perhaps, but not coded in a form of writing?
Dwuanos (Dwuanos)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It involves Hash smoking which was prelivilant in ancient culture and which came back in vogue in the sixties. Also E another name for ectasy also a drug. They both sit by each other on a keyboard which most people use daily. Am I right?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gourami

I've put this puzzle into Limbo for now . You can reactivate it by answering the outstanding questions
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)

Capital letters relevant? Actually, it applies to both capital and lower case of the letters in question.

Potato (Potato)

ASCII art relevant? No.

Jacek (Jacek)

Hi to everybody, this being my first post to this group! Here are my questions.

Did the symbol(s) look the same around 1000 BC as they look now, "sitting" on our keyboards? Almost, one was a little different. Were they more tangible perhaps, i.e. material objects like tools or weapons in a form that would resemble the present day letters or symbols? YES. Good q.

Is the new application of them, similar to the old one, more likely to be practiced by some specific group of people rather then others? Possibly. Are they scientists? Hobbyists of any kind? Noish... Members of a religious cult? Historians? Computer scientists? Engineers? Artists? No to rest, although any of these people could use them for this purpose.

Is the modern usage purely artistic, or serves some other purpose? Artistic and communicative.

Did the old use involve religious or cultural rituals? No. Divinations? No. Where the symbols used to mark a specific place? Or person? To convey a message perhaps, but not coded in a form of writing? If they were used for this, I haven't heard about it.

Dwuanos (Dwuanos)

It involves Hash smoking which was prevalent in ancient culture and which came back in vogue in the sixties. Also E another name for ecstasy also a drug. They both sit by each other on a keyboard which most people use daily. Am I right? Very interesting! No.

**********Hint
Jacek was getting close. Think of what alphabet was used then, and what letters are used for today.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Alpha and Omega relevant?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Redwine (Redwine)

Is Alpha and Omega relevant? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant alphabet the greek alphabet? the hebrew alphabet? egyptian hieroglyphic alphabet?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Phoenician alphabet relevant?

Were they used then as both letters and objects similar in shape to those letters?

Do we use them now both as letters and as objects of similar shape?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine (Redwine)

Is the relevant alphabet the greek alphabet? the hebrew alphabet? egyptian hieroglyphic alphabet? No to all.

Rbruma (Rbruma)

Is the Phoenician alphabet relevant? Yes! Hey Rbruma!

Were they used then as both letters and objects similar in shape to those letters? Yes!

Do we use them now both as letters and as objects of similar shape? Yes!
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You said that the two letters (ancient and new) were similar, and the only ones that I see similar are W, Q and Y. Is one of these one of the letters involved?

Although I have no idea what the objects might be :-)
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for the phrase in bold, I meant to use italics but I misused the formatting
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

W and Y relevant?
Back then, "Y" was used instead of "W", then "W" was used, and then "Y" became an abbrevation for "Why"?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma (Rbruma)

You said that the two letters (ancient and new) were similar, and the only ones that I see similar are W, Q and Y. Is one of these one of the letters involved? No. Of these two letters, one is identical in Phoenician and English but has a different sound in each, and one is a little different visually but has the same sound.

Although I have no idea what the objects might be :-) When you get the answer, you'll see how ironic this statement is. :P


Potato (Potato)

W and Y relevant?
Back then, "Y" was used instead of "W", then "W" was used, and then "Y" became an abbreviation for "Why"? No, but you're OTRT as far as current usage.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the meaning of the names of the ancient letters relevant? (Like Aleph meaning "Ox")?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The objects similar in shape to the letters, were they physical, tangible things? Same question for the currently used objects.

I must be using a different depiction of the alphabet or be too tired, I cannot manage to see a letter other than W and Y that looks exactly the same to the modern counterparts but corresponds to different sounds :-)

By any chance, is it aleph? (although that's an inverted "A")
Andy_hornby (Andy_hornby)
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Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

could it be a 'C' (see)?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 9:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it O and K --> OK?
They mean "eye" and "palm" respectively --> Facepalm? xD
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma (Rbruma)

Is the meaning of the names of the ancient letters relevant? (Like Aleph meaning "Ox")? Yes indeed.

The objects similar in shape to the letters, were they physical, tangible things? Yes, although you might not call them "things." Same question for the currently used objects. No, there's usually nothing tangible to the current versions.

I must be using a different depiction of the alphabet or be too tired, I cannot manage to see a letter other than W and Y that looks exactly the same to the modern counterparts but corresponds to different sounds :-) The Wikipedia alphabet works well enough for this purpose. I was actually basing the puzzle on part of an Ellery Queen novel.

By any chance, is it aleph? (although that's an inverted "A") Nope.

Andy_hornby (Andy_hornby)

could it be a 'C' (see)? Nope.

Potato (Potato)

Is it O This is one! and K But no.--> OK?
They mean "eye" and "palm" respectively --> Facepalm? xD Ooh, nice one! There's apparently a lot of good wordplay with this alphabet.
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emoticons relevant?

With the O ("eye") representing eyes, as in O_O ?
And the P ("mouth") representing a tongue stuck out, as in :-P ?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or rather, the symbol that would be pronounced "P" looking similar to a ")", which can be used as a mouth in a smiley?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, December 16, 2011 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it "I"?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 3:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato (Potato)

Emoticons relevant? Yes!

With the O ("eye") representing eyes, as in O_O ?
And the P ("mouth") representing a tongue stuck out, as in :-P ? You got it.

***************SPOILER
The letter P derives its shape from the Phoenician letter Peh, which meant "mouth." Three thousand years later, we have by coincidence started using P to represent a mouth again, in emoticons. :P
The same applies for O, derived from Ain, which meant "eye." O_o
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 4:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yay! ^^ Great puzzle!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2011 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wow!
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2012 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you.

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