| Author | Message | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3356 Registered: 1-2007 |
Kieran : "Did Big Bucks win the 3.20?" Peter (me) : "Yes he did" Kieran : "Fantastic, I bet on him" Peter : "Let me see the bet" Studies betting slip Peter : "Oh dear you really didn't want him to win" Kieran : "Why on earth not?" To solve simply answer Kieran's question | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 2415 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is this a horse race? A greyhound race? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3357 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is this a horse race? Yes A greyhound race? | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 441 Registered: 7-2010 |
Did he make a mistake making his bet? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3358 Registered: 1-2007 |
Did he make a mistake making his bet? No but he failed to realise something | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1960 Registered: 11-2003 |
Did Kieran bet on Big Bucks winning the race? Was there something 'in small print' he had overlooked? Some conditions connected to the bet? Relevant if he bet on only Big Bucks or on other horses? or races? as well? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12616 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he make a special type of bet? Trifecta or something similar? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3359 Registered: 1-2007 |
Did Kieran bet on Big Bucks winning the race? Yes Was there something 'in small print' he had overlooked? Yes Some conditions connected to the bet? Yes Relevant if he bet on only Big Bucks or on other horses? Yes or races? Yes as well? Yes he bet on other races as well | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3360 Registered: 1-2007 |
Did he make a special type of bet? Yes Trifecta or something similar? The bet he made is called a Lucky 15. You pick 4 horses in different races and the bet consists of 4 win singles, 6 win doubles, 4 win trebles and 1 win four timer. As you can see the bet consists of 15 separate bets so a €2 lucky 15 would cost you a stake of €30. You've made very quick progress on this | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12617 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he win a single in that race? But needed a double? Or something like this? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 2418 Registered: 7-2009 |
The bet he made is called a Lucky 15. You pick 4 horses in different races and the bet consists of 4 win singles, 6 win doubles, 4 win trebles and 1 win four timer. As you can see the bet consists of 15 separate bets so a €2 lucky 15 would cost you a stake of €30. -- This line is all complete and utter gibberish to me except the part about it being 15 separate bets. Do I need to understand it any more than that to continue this puzzle? By picking the winning horse, did he make less money on that bet than he lost on the sum of the other 14 bets? Would he have won more if the second place horse placed first? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3361 Registered: 1-2007 |
Did he win a single in that race? Yes and... But needed a double? he actually got a double Or something like this? See above | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3362 Registered: 1-2007 |
The bet he made is called a Lucky 15. You pick 4 horses in different races and the bet consists of 4 win singles, 6 win doubles, 4 win trebles and 1 win four timer. As you can see the bet consists of 15 separate bets so a €2 lucky 15 would cost you a stake of €30. -- This line is all complete and utter gibberish to me except the part about it being 15 separate bets. Do I need to understand it any more than that to continue this puzzle? Hmm how do I explain it. A double is where if horse 1 wins the entire win amount goes on to horse 2. In a treble if horse 1&2 win then the accumulated win goes onto horse 3 and in a 4 timer if horses 1, 2 & 3 win then the entire winnings go onto horse 4. By picking the winning horse, did he make less money on that bet than he lost on the sum of the other 14 bets? No the overall bet returned a profit Would he have won more if the second place horse placed Not sure what you mean by this. To avoid confusion Kieran's bet fared as follows: Horse 1 -Won Horse 2 -Unplaced Horse 3 -Unplaced Horse 4 (Big Bucks) - Won Therefore out of 15 bets only 3 were sucessful namely Win on horse 1 Win on horse 4 Double on horse 1 & 4 Had Big Bucks not won Kieran would only have had 1 successful bet out of the 15 the win on Horse 1. So why was getting 3 bets up less favourable than getting 1 up Hope this is clear | ||
| Redwine (Redwine)
New member Username: Redwine Post Number: 691 Registered: 1-2011 |
If another horse had won, would Kieran have made more money? If another horse had won, would Kieran have achieved another profitable combination on his bet? If so, would this combination be something harder to achieve? Something rarely happening? By Big Bucks winning, Kieran had 3 successful bets out of 15, correct? Or is there something yet unknown proving that he did not have even those 3? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3367 Registered: 1-2007 |
If another horse had won, would Kieran have made more money? If you mean horse 2 & 3 in his bet then yes If another horse had won, would Kieran have achieved another profitable combination on his bet? Yes he would. If either horse 2 or 3 would have won he would have had 7 sucessful bets out of 15 If so, would this combination be something harder to achieve? Well picking winners is always difficult Something rarely happening? Picking 3 out of 4 is not that uncommon but pretty difficult nonetheless By Big Bucks winning, Kieran had 3 successful bets out of 15, correct? Correct Or is there something yet unknown proving that he did not have even those 3? No he did have those 3 but the question is why was winning 3 bets less preferable to winning only one | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12639 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the odds on each horse relevant? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12640 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the odds on each horse relevant? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3368 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are the odds on each horse relevant? Very much so | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12650 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Big Bucks have long odds? Average? Was Big Bucks a favorite? Same questions for the horse in the other race he won? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3372 Registered: 1-2007 |
Did Big Bucks have long odds? No Average? No Was Big Bucks a favorite? Yes Same questions for the horse in the other race he won? Horse 1 was a longshot | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12657 Registered: 4-2010 |
Would he hsve won more money with just the longshot than with the favorite-plus-longshot? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3373 Registered: 1-2007 |
Would he hsve won more money with just the longshot than with the favorite-plus-longshot? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12659 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the odds combined in the double bet? Did he bet the same amount on both horses? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3374 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are the odds combined in the double bet? To explain : Horse 1 won at odds of 8/1 and Big Bucks won at 1/1 (which we call even money). Therefore a €2 double on an 8/1 and a 1/1 horse would pay €36 i.e 2 x 8 plus stake returned = 18 , 18 at even money with stake returned =36. Also Kieran had two win singles €2 at 8/1 which as mentioned pays €18 including stake returned and €2 at even money which paid €4. Therefore the two winners out of 4 gave kieran a total return of €58 i.e. €36 + €18 + €4. So why do you think it would have been preferable if only horse 1 had won for which he could only have expected a return of €18. Hope this is not to complicated Did he bet the same amount on both horses? See above | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12664 Registered: 4-2010 |
Had all the races in his bet been run at this point? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 698 Registered: 6-2003 |
Relevant what horse would have won if not Big Bucks? Would it have been any of the other three horses, with higher odds? Or did you think that it is a waste of money to bet on even money? and he would have done better to bet all 30 Euro on horse 1? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3376 Registered: 1-2007 |
Had all the races in his bet been run at this point? Yes Relevant what horse would have won if not Big Bucks? If you mean the other horses in his bet that were unplaced then yesish . If they had won he would have increased his winnings significantly Would it have been any of the other three horses, with higher odds? Well if any of the other horses had one this anomaly would not have arisen Or did you think that it is a waste of money to bet on even money? No and he would have done better to bet all 30 Euro on horse 1? Well it's obvious that he would have done better but this is not on the right track | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12685 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the odds on the horses in the other races (that he didn't win) relevant? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3377 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are the odds on the horses in the other races (that he didn't win) relevant? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12705 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he make any other bets? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3378 Registered: 1-2007 |
Did he make any other bets? No Here's a hint . It was a special weeks racing so.... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12710 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are any other races outside of the ones he bet on relevant? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3379 Registered: 1-2007 |
Are any other races outside of the ones he bet on relevant? No | ||
| Redwine (Redwine)
New member Username: Redwine Post Number: 718 Registered: 1-2011 |
We established that Kieran had overlooked something in small print. Did the overlooked thing: - state that there will be extra money paid on single winning on combination bet? (please forgive my complete lack of specific language) - state that there will be no money paid under certain circumstances, even if there are some winnings on combination bet? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3380 Registered: 1-2007 |
We established that Kieran had overlooked something in small print.Indeed Did the overlooked thing: - state that there will be extra money paid on single winning on combination bet? (please forgive my complete lack of specific language) No forgiveness needed this is the crux of the matter so well done. Yes the bookmakers were offering a special deal for that weeks racing - state that there will be no money paid under certain circumstances, even if there are some winnings on combination bet? No Nearly there now. Just think what the special offer was and you're there. A simple mathmatical step required | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12726 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the special offer for a single win on a horse with long odds? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 706 Registered: 6-2003 |
Was the offer to double the odds for the winning bet with the shortest odds? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3381 Registered: 1-2007 |
Was the special offer for a single win on a horse with long odds? Well the bookmakers offered to do something to the odds of the winning horse if only one of your 4 won. Was the offer to double the odds for the winning bet with the shortest odds? No in terms of the bookmaker's offer the odds of the winning horse did not matter they undertook to do something if only one of your 4 selections won Next post wins | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 414 Registered: 8-2001 |
Wins what? :P | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12735 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did they double the amount one if you only got one? Did they give more money? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12736 Registered: 4-2010 |
CORRECTION: Did they double the amount won if you only got one? Did they give more money? !#@$#@^ homophones... | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3382 Registered: 1-2007 |
Wins what? :P A healthy dollop of the satisfaction that comes with a job well done Did they double the amount one if you only got one? Did they give more money? Not exactly but I think we can go to the ***************SPOILER************** During Cheltenham Festival week our local bookmaker was offering numerous special bets and enhanced odds. One of which was quadrupling the odds of a winner if a punter had only 1 successful horse in their lucky 15 bet. As we've established Big Bucks' victory at evens gave Kieran a total return of €58 but had Big Bucks not won Kieran's other winner would have paid 32/1 i.e 8/1 x 4 to a €2 stake thus giving him a return (including stake back) of €66. So having 2 winners rather than one cost Kieran €8. I ran this puzzle because I'm struggling to think of another circumstance where one, for financial reasons, would hope a horse they bet on didn't win. Sorry if this was a bit complicated as I should have known that betting over here is very different than it is across the pond. Thanks to all who ran in this race Btw Balin the puzzle title is a pun on my favourite REM song "Wendell Gee" . It's on their "Fables of the Reconstruction album" and features, uniquely, Peter Buck playing a banjo. Do check it out. Thanks again | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12747 Registered: 4-2010 |
Way ahead of you - I checked out Wendell Gee when you first mentioned it in my puzzle involving me shouting Leonard Bernstein. It's on my iPod now. And I don't know the first thing about betting. | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 3385 Registered: 1-2007 |
Oh yes I forgot I mentioned it before. I've just checked and I have 316 REM songs on my iPod. Some are live versions of studio songs.so the same song may appear twice. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12753 Registered: 4-2010 |
I have 19 (including all of AFTP), but my iPod's running low on memory. Although it's also starting to only work intermittently, so I may end up getting a new one. The most I have by any band is 31 (Beatles, including the entire 1 album, but those are shorter). | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12754 Registered: 4-2010 |
I correct myself - the most I have is 112 by one group, then 42, 41, 31 (by 3), 27, 21 (by 2), and then 19 (by 2, including REM). |
