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Sapir (Sapir)
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Post Number: 8
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 5:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've made a few faux pas here since joining LTPF -- consequently, I thought I'd submit a puzzle and dedicate it to my first friend here, Doriana, whose fine puzzle, ([Doriana] The end of his career) I sullied in my exuberance. This puzzle is dedicated to Doriana:

This is a classic.

The inaugural report claimed she was born between two civic mounts, one named for a human condition; the other named for a small group of a certain type of tree. Unlike the ship (HMS) which bore a fragment of her surname, she never hoisted a flag--although that same report placed her in proximity with many raised standards.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for dedicating a puzzle to me, I'm flattered and blushing (:

This is what I call an elaborate puzzle statement, I don't even know where to start!

Is she a human being?
Does "she was born" refer to a person being born? something coming into existence?
Is the ship British? Swedish?
By "standards", do you mean flags?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Certain type of tree" - trees as in plants? Something to do with mathematics?

Do all "she"s/"her"s refer to the same thing? The same person?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a royal?

If not human is she some sort of physical phenomonem?

btw I do think you are being a bit hard on yourself by describing yourself as having made a faux pas and sullying Doriana's puzzle by mentioning the S word. Just to reiterate to anyone who'll listen when archiving puzzles I don't go solely by searching for the word ahem... you know what... i do tend to read the puzzles and only archive them if they are fully Susan Boyled (see balin's very witty neologistic puzzle for explanation of what a Susan is although I'm sure you can guess). And a big welcome to the forum . It's great fun here and yes LTPF'ers are like really good friends you've never met.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sapir - "To err is human. To 'arrr' is pirate."

Fret not! One of the best things about this group is that the "rules" are always flexible and everyone I've interacted with is way more concerned about having fun and playing nice than nitpicking about how something should or should not be done. We're a quirky little family, but a loving one.


Inaugural:
Marking the start of something?
Begining something?
Inducting into office?
Introduce into use?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 4:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana:

Is she a human being?No
Does "she was born" refer to a person being born?Yes something coming into existence?Yes
Is the ship British?Yes Swedish?No
By "standards", do you mean flags?Yesish


Balin:

"Certain type of tree" - trees as in plants?Yes Something to do with mathematics?No

Do all "she"s/"her"s refer to the same thing?Yes The same person?Yesish


Peter365:

Is she a royal?No

If not human is she some sort of physical phenomonem?"phenomonem?"

Vesica:

Inaugural: 
Marking the start of something?Yes
Begining something?Yes
Inducting into office?No
Introduce into use?Yes

Thank you all for your kind welcomings. I hope this is a good puzzle for the group. I am trying to stay with mainly "yes" and "no" and "-ish" responses to questions. I wanted to try to avoid any qualifying elaborations but I had to ask about "phenomonem" since I didn't know what was intended by the choice of it. Any answer I gave to the question would be colored by assumption and therefore potentially misleading or even downright wrong. Could I assume that it was simply a spelling error and that what was really meant was the English word, "phenomenon?" What if the purpose was indeed a horse of that color? Peter365 could very well have something up the sleeve! I could say either "Yes" or "No" and be giving a correct by-the-rules answer in either case but that would be wrong of me in the sense that my answer would then be misleading to all, including Peter365! The choice of spelling could very well be intentional; after all, this is a word-bearing puzzle! So, I felt that I had to ask.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just a spelling mistake I'm afraid don't know what went wrong there.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She's not human...Is she:
An animal?
A plant?
Alive?

Her surname:
The last name of her owners (if animal, I suppose)?
Her latin species name?
Part of a breed name?

Is the report about her?
Is the report about people close to her?
Is it relevant where this report would be seen/presented?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365:

Peter365 says, "Just a spelling mistake I'm afraid don't know what went wrong there."

So, restating the question:

"If not human is she some sort of physical phenomenon?Yope

vesica:

She's not human...Is she: 
An animal?No
A plant?No
Alive?DYOD

Her surname:Yes (lol)
The last name of her ownersNo(if animal, I suppose)?No
Her latin species name?No
Part of a breed name?No

Is the report about her?Yes
Is the report about people close to her?No
Is it relevant where this report would be seen/presented?Yes
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 4:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she have both a first and last name?
As we would recognize them?
Or does "surname" refer to something else?
Is her surname literally "Yes"?

DYOD of "alive"...hmm...
Was she ever alive?
Does she have a heartbeat?
Can she move on her own?
Is she a single or few-celled organism?
A virus?
Is she an idea?
A weather event?
(Running out of definitions of alive...)
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 7:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:

Does she have both a first and last name?Yes
As we would recognize them?Yes
Or does "surname" refer to something else?No
Is her surname literally "Yes"?No (I see the confusing answer I gave above to: Her surname:Yes (lol)) "surname" refers to "last name" which is also commonly called "family name"

DYOD of "alive"...hmm... 
Was she ever alive?DYOD
Does she have a heartbeat?No
Can she move on her own?No
Is she a single or few-celled organism?No
A virus?No
Is she an idea?Yesish
A weather event?No
(Running out of definitions of alive...)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is she a belief system? a goddess? a fictional character? a legend? a mythological creature?

is the gender applied to her simpy because she bears a female forename? as opposed to say vehicles which tend to be known as "she"?

actually is she a vehicle? is she man-made?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

is she a belief system?No a goddess?No a fictional character?Yes a legend?Yes a mythological creature?Noish

is the gender applied to her simpy because she bears a female forename?Yesish as opposed to say vehicles which tend to be known as "she"?Noish

actually is she a vehicle?Yesish, DYOD is she man-made?Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she an animal? A being? A creature?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is she a ship? a train? a plane? a bicycle? motorbike? truck? bus? a tank?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wait... there is a ship that bore a fragment of her surname; is she a ship too? But a fictional one?

Is she from a book? Other media? Or is it rather something like a ship from mythology? If mythology is relevant, is it Roman? Greek? Norse?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:

Is she an animal?No A being? NoA creature?No


Shez:

is she a ship?Noish a train?No a plane?No a bicycle? Nomotorbike?No truck?No bus?No a tank?No

Doriana:

Wait... O.K.there is a ship that bore a fragment of her surname;Yes is she a ship too?Noish, DYOD "ship" But a fictional one?Yesish, DYOD "ship"

Is she from a book?Yes Other media?Yes Or is it rather something like a ship from mythology?Noish, DYOD, "mythology" time-wise If mythology is relevant, is it Roman?No Greek?No Norse?No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is she a submarine? a sailboat? a paddle steamer? a yacht?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does she appear in a book? film? play? TV program?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she from the bible? another religious text?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

is she a submarine?No a sailboat?No a paddle steamer?No a yacht?No

Shez:

does she appear in a book?Yes film?No play?No TV program?No


Doriana:

Is she from the bible?No another religious text?No
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 5:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ACTUALLY, thinking further, she MAY appear as a character in film, in plays, or on TV programs! I have no knowledge of any such and it would be irrelevant anyway.
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a statue? a monument? A bridge?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a canoe? a raft? a riverboat? becky thatcher?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 2:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Twilightseeker:

Is she a statue?No a monument?Noish, DYOD A bridge?No


Shez:

a canoe?No a raft?No a riverboat?No becky thatcher?No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant ship - an ocean liner? A warship?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:

Relevant ship - an ocean liner?No A warship?Yes
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, I think you've just inspired a puzzle yourself! Once my current ones are solved, expect a dedication to you, Sapir!

Is she a space ship?
The Enterprise?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are the two civic mounts in the USA?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:

Is she a space ship?No
The Enterprise?No


Shez:

are the two civic mounts in the USA?Yes
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:

Hmm, I think you've just inspired a puzzle yourself! Once my current ones are solved, expect a dedication to you, Sapir! Thank you, Vesica. Please make it easy... (Not!)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she a WW2 ship?

was she named after a particular person? female?

was she never launched? did the war finish before she was required?

small group of a certain kind of tree - like a copse? a clump of oaks? conifers? deciduous?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Hollywood relevant?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:

was she a WW2 ship?No

was she named after a particular person?Unknown to me, Irr female?Unknown to me, Irr

was she never launched?DYOD, launched did the war finish before she was required?Irr

small group of a certain kind of tree - like a copse?similar a clump of oaks?similar conifers?No deciduous?Yes


redwine:

Is Hollywood relevant?No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this type of tree fruit-bearing? do we cultivate them for their fruit? nuts? bark? wood?

did she ever set sail? on a river? the sea?

was she a pirate ship?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

is this type of tree fruit-bearing?No, not like we eat do we cultivate them for their fruit?No nuts?No bark?No wood?Yes, is popular wood for cabinetry and furniture; also common wild

did she ever set sail?No, but could make pun on a river?No the sea?No

was she a pirate ship?No, but piracy involved
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oak? ash? beech? cedar? teak? mahogany? chestnut? is there a LTPF list of trees?

is it worth pursuing the pun?

has the ship a two-word name? one? three?

was the book about pirates? as in the arrr, Jim lad! kind of pirate or Somalian pirates in the Indian Ocean?

the HMS is a British ship? a warship? a real one? WW2?

are the standards/flags the jolly roger? or perhaps ships signals?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

oak? ash? beech? cedar? teak? mahogany? chestnut? is there a LTPF list of trees?If there were an LTPF list, and one went through the list, the type of tree would be revealed to be "alder"

is it worth pursuing the pun?No

has the ship a two-word name?No one?Yes three?No

was the book about pirates?Not specifically as in the arrr, Jim lad! kind of pirate or Somalian pirates in the Indian Ocean?Not specifically

the HMS is a British ship?see above, Doriana asked, Yes a warship?see above, Balin asked, Yes a real one?Yes WW2?see above (I thought it was Balin who asked but now I see it was you, Shez--sorry, I have to pay more attention!) -- answer was: No, not a WW2 ship (I think all ships of that name were before WWII)

are the standards/flags the jolly roger?No or perhaps ships signals?No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the ship a battleship? A carrier?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WWI?

It's a British ship, yes? (HMS?)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I'm the one who should be paying more attention!

are the two civic mounts two US towns each on a hill? does the word alder actually appear in the name of one? like alderly? aldershot? alderhey?

is the human condition a philosophical concept? or is it a mood? a physical state?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:

Is the ship a battleship?Of the one ship I thought of and of the many ships that I found out bore a fragment of her surname, there were, Sloop, Brig-sloop, Schooner, gunboat and other classes as well but this slightly on the wrong track in a sense. The ship name only serves to point to her surname A carrier?Irr, ship name only matters to point to her surname I suppose I should offer the name of the ship? (since it has caused so much confusion?)



Vesica:

WWI?No, and Irr, only that there was a ship bearing a fragment of her surname

It's a British ship, yes? (HMS?)Yes, was but only one of many British ships bearing the same fragment of her surname. "Ship bearing a fragment of her surname" was only to be a clue to her surname


Shez:

are the two civic mounts two US townsYes each on a hill?in derivative nomenclature, Yes; in physical reality, possibly, I do not know does the word alder actually appear in the name of one?No, but an other-than-English word does refer to group of "alder" like alderly?No aldershot?No alderhey?No

is the human condition a philosophical concept?Yes or is it a mood?Noish, though some would claim Yes with diacritical looking like this: "!" a physical state?No, though some would say "absolutely Yes" with same diacritical, "!"
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sapir, I'm not sure where you're from, so hopefully this isn't taken the wrong way. I'm just curious, because to me, "!" is an 'exclamation point' (or 'exclamation mark', less often) and I've never heard it described as a 'diacritical' mark, but as punctuation. Is there perhaps some variable in our use of English here?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin:

You are correct. I was attempting an obscure pun. I guess it was far too obscure. I apologize if I offended your sensibilities. If one must pause to explain a pun, it has failed miserably!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You didn't offend me, Sapir. I was just curious, lol. I'm sorry I didn't understand your pun =(
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sapir, I'm a little bit lost. Could you maybe do a recap?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana:

I will do so. I plan for it to be completed today but I have a few commitments. Bear with me a bit, I'm on it.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is a group of alders a verne?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 5:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:
is a group of alders a verne? Absolutely, and you are on the right track for that particular clue.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could it be Laverne Heights then? and might be a reference to her being born in Hollywood or Burbank?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"The inaugural report claimed she was born between two civic mounts, one named for a human condition; the other named for a small group of a certain type of tree. Unlike the ship (HMS) which bore a fragment of her surname, she never hoisted a flag--although that same report placed her in proximity with many raised standards."

The following has been deduced:

She was never a human being.

The report claimed she was born as a human being.

The ship bearing a fragment of her last name name was British, was HMS, was a warship. There were many ships with the same name, though not more than one in service at the same time; one was a "tender" and one was never built. All were out of service before WWII.

By "standards" is meant flags as in (raised standards (flags)) and also standards as in measure of conduct or quality, as in "higher (raised) standards" or "according to a certain measure" as in "if you consider the standard academic level of achievement, a student at..." or as in "standard of excellence," or "standard of living."

"certain type of tree" is alder.

All the "she" and "her" refer to the same thing.
She is not a royal nor did the report claim her to be.

In a sense, "she" is a physical phenomenon. In another sense "she" is not. Thus Yope

The word "inaugural" was chosen to indicate that this report marks the beginning of what "she" (particularly her last name as a noun) is now connected with. It marks the introduction into use of that something.

She is not an animal or plant. She is not alive in the same sense that a being is alive and lives. In the sense of what it is that was inaugurated, very much alive. Some people actually believed she was alive and that belief in her living had something to do with the reason she was in the report in the first place.

The report was about her. It is relevant where the report appeared and was seen/presented.

She has both a first and a last name as well as a middle name.

She is something like an idea. She is a fictional character though was not presented as one in the report. She is legendary.

She is man-made. In a sense, she is a vehicle much the same as words are vehicles of meaning, or CD's and DVD's are vehicles of music, movies, and/or files.

The gender is applied to her because the article said or implied that she was a real woman with a history.

She is a ship in the sense that "what she is" transports or carries something.

She has risen to almost mythic proportion in certain circles. So, she is not a myth, per se. Certainly not like The Minotaur or Heracles are myths.

The report first appeared in a book. She has been written about in other places as well, most notably a well-respected magazine. There could very well be plays or movies about her. I do not know. Irr. to the solution I think.

In a sense she is a monument, as in Gulliver's Travels being a monument of or to political discourse or political satire.

The two civic "mounts" are in the USA.

In a certain sense she was launched as an idea may be considered to be launched.

The type of tree is alder.

The two civic mounts are US towns. Possibly cities if there be that distinction made.

The human condition that one of the towns is named after or the name is related to the condition is both a political concept and a philosophical concept. Many words have been written about this condition.

The group of alders refers to the term "verne" and this has a lot to do with the name of one of the towns. With a slightly modified spelling, it is in fact in the name of that town.

It is not Laverne Heights and has nothing to do with Hollywood, in fact the towns are nearer the other coast.


I hope this recap is helpful. This is my first puzzle. Please let me know if I have messed up.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sapir, please stop being so self-critical (: Thanks for the recap, it's definitely helpful!

Is the "inaugural report" actually written down somewhere? If so, was it written in [LTPF list of centuries & decades]?

I don't really know what made me think of it, but is the American Constitution relevant? The Declaration of Independence? Some other official political document?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Doriana:

Sapir, please stop being so self-critical (: Thanks for the recap, it's definitely helpful!I simply wish to be polite, Doriana. 

Is the "inaugural report" actually written down somewhere? YesIf so, was it written in [LTPF list of centuries & decades]?published, mid 1970's

I don't really know what made me think of it, but is the American Constitution relevant?Yesish, but not particularly relevant, the human condition is mentioned therein The Declaration of Independence?Yesish, but not particularly relevant, the human condition is mentioned therein Some other official political document?Many, but not particularly relevant; again, the human condition is mentioned in many political writings and documents--official and otherwise
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is one of them Mt. Vernon?
And Mt. Pleasant?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Vesica:

Is one of them Mt. Vernon?Yes, but be careful
And Mt. Pleasant?No
Vesica (Vesica)
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Being careful -
Mount Vernon, Virginia?

If no, how about these:
Mount Vernon, Alabama?
Mount Vernon, Arkansas?
Mount Vernon, Georgia?
Mount Vernon, Illinois?
Mount Vernon, Indiana?
Mount Vernon, Iowa?
Mount Vernon, Kentucky?
Mount Vernon, Maine?
Mount Vernon, Maryland?
Mount Vernon, Missouri?
Mount Vernon, New York?
Mount Vernon, Ohio?
Mount Vernon, Oregon?
Mount Vernon, South Dakota?
Mount Vernon, Texas?
Mount Vernon, Washington?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:

Being careful - 
Mount Vernon, Virginia? 

If no, how about these: 
Mount Vernon, Alabama? 
Mount Vernon, Arkansas? 
Mount Vernon, Georgia? 
Mount Vernon, Illinois? 
Mount Vernon, Indiana? 
Mount Vernon, Iowa? 
Mount Vernon, Kentucky? 
Mount Vernon, Maine? 
Mount Vernon, Maryland? 
Mount Vernon, Missouri? 
Mount Vernon, New York? 
Mount Vernon, Ohio? Yes 
Mount Vernon, Oregon? 
Mount Vernon, South Dakota? 
Mount Vernon, Texas? 
Mount Vernon, Washington?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tricky, tricky, Mr. Sapir! I like the way you think!

Also, COOL!! My maternal line is from outside Canton, OH. Now, back to work here...


Mt. Gilead important?
Is it another town with "mount" in it's name?
Is it in Ohio?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Vesica:
Tricky, tricky, Mr. Sapir! I like the way you think! lol. It has often been been suggested that I do not think...

Also, COOL!! My maternal line is from outside Canton, OH. Now, back to work here...

Mt. Gilead important?Not important for solution of puzzle 
Is it another town with "mount" in it's name?Yes
Is it in Ohio?Yes
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2011 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

mount hope? mount healthy?

I take it she wasn't "born" in a shipyard?

was the book the report appeared in fiction? non-fiction? published LTPF list of centuries please?
Sapir (Sapir)
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mount hope? mount healthy? Neither

I take it she wasn't "born" in a shipyard? She was not "born" in a shipyard

was the book the report appeared in fiction?No, it was far from being fiction, in fact should have been a reference work non-fiction?most assuredly, though this report was distinctly in violation of that fact published LTPF list of centuries please? 20th century, 1975ish.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, April 29, 2011 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was this in the press?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:

was this in the press? The inaugural report appeared in a book. She has been written about in at least one magazine.
Shez (Shez)
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mount liberty?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:

mount liberty?Yes
Shez (Shez)
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is the respected journal a trade or commercial magazine? computing? science? business? arts? sport? medecine? transport? war?

is she a magazine? a company? a health plan? a diet? a game?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:

is the respected journal a trade or commercial magazine?commercial magazine computing? science? business? arts? sport? medecine? transport? war?it is a general magazine with articles on all of these and other topics.

is she a magazine?No a company?No a health plan?No a diet?No a game?No, but there is a "game-like" aspect involved

Recall: The inaugural report first appeared in a book. She has been written about in other places as well, most notably a well-respected magazine.
Shez (Shez)
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is it an American magazine? I mean, is there any chance I may have heard of it?

*thinks* Playboy? Cosmo? Vogue? Harpers? The New Yorker?

is she a film or TV programme? a band?
Sapir (Sapir)
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is it an American magazine?Yes I mean, is there any chance I may have heard of it? of course!

*thinks* Playboy?No Cosmo?No Vogue?No Harpers? NoThe New Yorker? Yes

is she a film or TV programme?No a band?No
Balin (Balin)
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Caption contest relevant?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Balin:

Caption contest relevant?I don't think so, what is a "caption contest"?
Balin (Balin)
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The New Yorker caption contest = supply the caption for a funny cartoon.
Shez (Shez)
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is the piracy involved software piracy? videos? music?

the report claimed that she had been a real human being - I take it that this means that it claimed that a human being had once existed wit this name? but this was not true?

is there some sort of dispute over whether this woman had ever existed? if she had existed - in the USA? LTPF list of centuries please?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Balin:

The New Yorker caption contest = supply the caption for a funny cartoon. Ahh... No, caption contest is irrelevant


Shez:

is the piracy involved software piracy?No videos?No music?No. --Bear in mind that the inaugural report was published in the mid 1970's...

the report claimed that she had been a real human being - I take it that this means that it claimed that a human being had once existed wit this name?The inaugural report claimed she was born as a human being with that name--there may have been others with the same name, but it is highly unlikely, in my opinion; I have never heard of anyone else with her surname. but this was not true? The inaugural report claimed that she was a real person, however, she is a fictional character though she was not presented as being fictional in the inaugural report.

is there some sort of dispute over whether this woman had ever existed?It is widely understood now that she was an entirely fictional creation. At the time of the inaugural report, she was presented as having been a real person. if she had existed - in the USA?Yes, the inaugural report claimed she was born, lived, and worked in the USA, and further, that she enjoyed two separate careers during her short time on earth. LTPF list of centuries please? The inaugural report, published in the 1970's, claimed she was born in the 1940's and that she suffered an untimely demise in her early thirties.
Balin (Balin)
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Did the inaugural report claim to be her obituary?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Balin:

Did the inaugural report claim to be her obituary?It did not specifically claim to be her obituary, although it did mention something of the circumstances of her untimely demise.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2011 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

piracy in the sense of being copied and sold breaking copyright laws?

the two supposed careers - was either of them in the entertainment industry? sport? education? commerce? the arts? science? politics?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:

piracy in the sense of being copied and sold breaking copyright laws? Yesish

the two supposed careers - was either of them in the entertainment industry?No sport?No education?No commerce?No the arts?Both science?No politics?No
Shez (Shez)
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the thing that was pirated - literature? music? theatrical work? movie? design? fashion? logo? font? blueprint?

the careers in the arts - literature? music? painting? sculpture? crafts?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:

the thing that was pirated a bit of FA, here... recall that "piracy is involved." - literature?Yes. music?No. theatrical work?No. movie?No. design?No. fashion?No. logo?No. font?No. blueprint? No.

the careers in the arts - literature?No. music?No. painting?No. sculpture?one career crafts?No.
Shez (Shez)
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dance?
Shez (Shez)
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was the item in the New Yorker a short story? or did it purport to be a factual account?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:

dance?No -- both careers were in the so-called "Visual Arts"

was the item in the New Yorker a short story?No or did it purport to be a factual account?the item in the New Yorker was written by a well-known humorist and was more of a commentary than a work of fiction or what is commonly meant by "a factual account"
Shez (Shez)
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photography? film?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:

photography?Yes film?No
Shez (Shez)
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sometimes it gets a little lonely in this puzzle...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Sorry, Shez but this one is really tough! Too many things to guess and I'm not coming up with anything...Will think harder and be back.
Shez (Shez)
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:oD

The New Yorker makes me think of S J Perelman, from there to Groucho Marx and now I can't stop singing Lydia the Tattoed Lady!
Shez (Shez)
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so the name of a woman who it is now believed never existed is now associated with another thing which we have yet to identify.

is this thing tangible?

or is it a concept? movement? belief system?

is sport relevant? television? health? politics? education?

has this name been used as a nom de plume? by someone like an agony aunt? gossip columnist?
Sapir (Sapir)
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I know this seems like a very hard puzzle. It was difficult to think of clues that would be correct yet not be available merely by searching with google, therefore, "born between two civic mounts" and the use of the words "small group of a certain type of tree" and "raised standards." I have to thank you all and particularly Shez for sticking with it. I could post more clues but you are really very close to being able to figure it out. So, let me know if I should post additional clues. Here are the most useful ones uncovered so far:

She was/is a fictional entity

The inaugural report indicated that she was a sculptor, and a photographer.

And, that she was born in Ohio, between Mount Vernon and Mount Liberty.

There was an article written in the New Yorker, by a well-known humorist author that mentioned her.

Piracy is somehow involved with the inaugural report about her. Also, remember that the inaugural report appeared in print in the mid-1970's so it's not CD's or MP3's that would have been involved.

"Raised standards" were spoken of in the inaugural report but not using those exact words.
FROM THE EARLIER RECAP:
By "standards" is meant flags as in (raised standards (flags)) and also standards as in measure of conduct or quality, as in "higher (raised) standards" or "according to a certain measure" as in "if you consider the standard academic level of achievement, a student at..." or as in "standard of excellence," or "standard of living."



Also, remember that her demise was "untimely." Finding out a bit more about that might be helpful for solving the puzzle...

.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 8:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've avoided thinking about her demise as she never lived!

are we talking about the demise of the fictional entity?

was he murdered? suicide? an accident? eg car crash? drowning? disease? falling?

is her unusual surname a word which also means something in English? if so, a noun? verb? adjective?
Shez (Shez)
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the book the report first appeared in - LTPF list of ISBN numbers? :oD

was it a dictionary? encyclopaedia? directory?

a text book? biography? technical manual?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:


are we talking about the demise of the fictional entity? Yes

was he murdered? suicide? an accident?She died in an accident eg car crash? drowning? disease? falling? LTPF list of untimely deaths: explosion

is her unusual surname a word which also means something in English?Yes, there are two separate words in her surname. One was the name of the HMS ship if so, a noun?Two nouns verb? adjective?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Shez:

the book the report first appeared in - LTPF list of ISBN numbers? :oD Do you have a link to this list? I have not heard of this list

was it a dictionary?No encyclopaedia?Encyclopedia directory?No

a text book?No biography?No technical manual?No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

only joking about the ISBN number!

was the explosion caused by a bomb? or an explosion in a factory or workshop? a gas explosion?

were others killed or injured in the sam explosion?

is the surname hyphenated?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2011 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

only joking about the ISBN number! Good! (I had to ask, though)

was the explosion caused by a bomb?inaugural report does not say, I think not, though or an explosion in a factory or workshop?inaugural report does not say, I think maybe yes, this one a gas explosion? inaugural report does not say, I think could be this, too,

were others killed or injured in the sam explosion? inaugural report does not say, I think not, though

is the surname hyphenated?No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

not HMS Hood?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 2:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

not HMS Hood?Not HMS Hood.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, May 13, 2011 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it the first or second part of her surname which was the same as the ship's name?

was this part of the name an abstract noun? or a word which describes a tangible object?

same questions for the other part of her surname please.
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

was it the first or second part of her surname which was the same as the ship's name? Second part

was this part of the name an abstract noun? No. In the case of the ships' name, the fragment was used as a concrete noun i.e., that one may see, hear, feel, smell, etc. -- but this fragment may also be used as a verb, although it was not used in any sense other than in the concrete noun sense when used in naming the ships or a word which describes a tangible object? At the time of naming the ships that bore this fragment of her surname, it was a common noun that was the name for animals of a particular group, or family -- IT IS STILL A NAME FOR ANIMALS OF THAT PARTICULAR GROUP OR FAMILY OF ANIMAL, HOWEVER, IT IS NO LONGER SPELLED IN THE SAME WAY

same questions for the other (first) part of her surname please.
was this (first) part of the name an abstract noun? No, it was a concrete noun and appears in many proper names, both of people and places; (but it may also be used as a verb, although I have never thought of the verb sense in relation to any name; and it may also be used as an abstract noun though rarely and I think only in word-play such as in poetry, puns, etc.) -- indeed, this first fragment of her name has appeared more than a few dozen times in this puzzle thread so far or a word which describes a tangible object? Yes, see the just prior answer...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the ship's name - not a collective noun like flock or herd?

more like a genus?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

the ship's name - not a collective noun like flock or herd? Not a collective noun.



more like a genus? yes, more like a genus.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, May 14, 2011 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HMS Racoon? and Mount?

Mount Raccoon?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

HMS Racoon?No and Mount? Mount is indeed the first fragment of her surname!

Mount Yes Raccoon? No
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mountbatten?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin:

Mountbatten? No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a family of mammals?

HMS Dolphin? HMS Opossum? HMS Fox? HMS Wolfe? HMS Hyaena? HMS Weazel? HMS Beaver?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:

a family of mammals? Yes

HMS Dolphin?No HMS Opossum?No HMS Fox?No HMS Wolfe?No HMS Hyaena?No HMS Weazel?Yes HMS Beaver?No
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's about time for a ...********SPOILER********...

I've got to write one up. I'll check back here just before posting it, in case anyone would like to postpone it...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

YES! YES! YES!

actually, I think there's only you and me in here!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm here -- I've just been lurking on this one; I was just too stuck to come up with any questions. Nice work Shez!
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

----------------Hats off to Shez!----------------


*************SPOILER********


The 1975 edition of the New Columbia Encyclopedia contains a fictitious biographical entry for Lillian Virginia Mountweazel, on page 1,850. --This is the Inaugural Report.

The fictitious biography claimed that she was a fountain designer and then later, a photographer, best known for her book, Flags Up!, said to have been a collection of photographs of rural American mailboxes. --This is reference to "raised standards"

The inaugural report claimed that she was born in Bangs, Ohio, --which has its own zip code and is situated about halfway between Mount Liberty, Ohio and Mount Vernon, Ohio; --hence, "born between two civic mounts, one named for a human condition; the other named for a small group of a certain type of tree."

and that she died in an explosion --LTPF list of "untimely deaths"-- while on assignment for Combustibles magazine.

The article in The New Yorker --(the "well-respected magazine")-- was written by Henry Alford, --(the "well-known humorist")-- and published August 29, 2005, in an article entitled, Not A Word.

This is a textbook example of a "copyright trap" --a means or device that publishers place into their work to enable detection of copyright violation. --this is the reference to "piracy is involved"


The article in The New Yorker contains the following quote [excerpt] that sums up the trap aspect: “It was an old tradition in encyclopedias to put in a fake entry to protect your copyright,” Richard Steins, who was one of the volume’s editors, said... "If someone copied Lillian, then we'd know they’d stolen from us.”


--------The original Inaugural Report:--------

"Mountweazel, Lillian Virginia, 1942-1973, American photographer, b. Bangs, Ohio. Turning from fountain design to photography in 1963, Mountweazel produced her celebrated portraits of the South Sierra Miwok in 1964. She was awarded government grants to make a series of photo-essays of unusual subject matter, including New York City buses, the cemeteries of Paris and rural American mailboxes. The last group was exhibited extensively abroad and published as Flags Up! (1972) Mountweazel died at 31 in an explosion while on assignment for Combustibles magazine."


The HMS --which bore a fragment of her surname-- was HMS Weazel. Wikipedia says: "Eleven ships of the Royal Navy have borne the name HMS Weazel or HMS Weazle, archaic spellings of weasel, while another was planned [edit by sapir to add: but never built]..."




Lest it seem that I am prone to esquivalience, here are two links I found to be of value while researching for this puzzle:

The New Yorker article

2005 commentary by Dave Wilton of wordorigins.org



Hats off to Shez --for nailing it seemingly effortlessly...

As you can see, there were many possibilities for clues with this one, such as the manner of her death (explosion) coupled with her birth place (Bangs, Ohio) while on assignment for Combustibles magazine... As Dave Wilton, in the above link, points out: "...That last bit about Combustibles magazine is the give away,..."

The main challenge as I saw it was to make the clues very accurate, yet also such that a simple google search yielding a solution would not be forthcoming early on. Perhaps that was a mistake. I see that this puzzle seemed to lose steam rather quickly.

There is also some question in my mind whether this puzzle exemplifies "lateral thinking" or just plain old "oblique, obtuse, or obscure thinking" Clues would be appreciated. (I assume we can still post in the "recently solved puzzles" section where this will be (soon?) be moved?)

I have thought of a number of other puzzles along the way. They would likely be similar to this one.


Thanks.
I had fun!
Looking forward...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 15, 2011 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*removes hat*

Nice puzzle -- very interesting story, and nice job with the $poyler! I'll try to participate a bit more on the next one.
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:

Thanks, Balin. I had fun. I hope others did as well.

I'll have more time over the next few months to be here and be more involved in puzzling activity (pun intended)...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"effortlessly" - the spirit of irony is not yet dead then.

I did enjoy this though Sapir - there was so much to get into and always another thread to pick up when I came to a blind alley.

I must admit that I try not to use Google as I thought that was frowned upon in the LTPF, so I've only been using it when I thought I had a lead and then checking to see whether that might be it.

Thanks, I'm looking forward to the next one.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very nice, Sapir! Lots to get there and while I knew about "fake" entries in encyclopedias - I didn't see that coming as the solution! I had a lot of fun with this one!
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, Vesica!

Thanks, Shez!

I've another in the works. I learned a lot on this one, both about the subject matter and the puzzling "lateral thinking" phenomenon.

I am also looking forward to spending more time here on some of the other puzzles.

Is there anything I could have done to improve this one from a veteran LPTFers' viewpoint? or opinion? It seemed a bit cumbersome or awkward from time to time to me...

Any clues?

Thanks...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The only thing I could suggest is possibly compacting the puzzle statement some; it seemed a bit bulky to me. Other than that, top marks all around.
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's interesting, but I've noticed there are a couple of schools of thought on puzzle statement length... My puzzle statements tend to be shorter because I'm afraid of giving stuff away, but I actually thought your statement was good BECAUSE of how long it was and that it still managed not to give anything away. I've seen a few people post that they don't like the shorter puzzle statements, but honestly, I think it's really just a matter of puzzle writer's preference and the puzzle you're working on. (One of these days I'll post the puzzle I have been working on whose statement is currently 3 words long ;-D )

I know I wasn't a part of this puzzle, but I make it a habit to read all of the ongoing puzzles. I think you ran this really well -- and don't worry about awkward... if it gets really weird, you can always give a little hint to get everyone back on track.
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, May 16, 2011 - 11:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:

Thank you. Point taken about: "compacting the puzzle statement..."

Kalira:

Two schools... Hmmm...

I thought a lot about the puzzle statements I made. I am something of an expert (at least in my own mind - LOL) on online searching... and I wanted to place very "large" and correct statements that would not easily render or afford spoiling answers directly via google or other search engines, early on.

It seems to me that shorter puzzle statements leave more to the imagination of the solvers of the puzzle, (much like in a work of fiction, an author might say, "It was a dark and stormy night..." and [only recently] have this be understood to be an indication that the following words are 'purple prose' and therefore to be treated appropriately) and are more effective in generating and keeping interest in the puzzle.

Kalira, I look forward to your "one of these days puzzle" but, do you think you might be able to pare it down to two-and-a-half words? Have you ever heard of the concept of a "no-an" or "noan" in poetry? (kung-an, Chinese; Koan, Japanese...?)

You said, "I know I wasn't a part of this puzzle, but I make it a habit to read..." Maybe next puzzle we will meet? That would be nice.

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