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Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 539
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is labeled “Classic” not because it’s a published or well-known puzzle, but because it has been run here before, by me, about a million years ago. Most of you here now haven’t seen it and even those who have might not remember it. And NO, before anyone get’s clever – it’s so old, it’s not in the archives. Also, the puzzle statement has been tweaked to parallel my other puzzle of the same title.

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
~Big Yellow Taxi, Joni Mitchell


If it had never been lost, they would have never realized what they had.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13129
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should we be asking questions on this one?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 550
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes please. The second one with identical title and text can hopefully be deleted. Stupid computer hiccup.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13136
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK then...

It - an object?
Both "they"s the same? H? A? M?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 557
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It - an object? Yes
Both "they"s the same? Yes
H? A? M? Adult humans of Irr. genders
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13142
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 12:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they lose the object? Was the object valuable?

What they had - an object? Something intangible? Such as a feeling? A friendship? Each other?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 564
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 4:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they lose the object? Yope
Was the object valuable? Yes

What they had - an object? Yes, the "it" object in fact.
Something intangible? Not really
Such as a feeling? A friendship? Each other? No to these
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13149
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think they lost the object? But had it all along?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 490
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it lost as in misplaced? or did they lose possesion of it? or access to it?

did they lose it in the sense that it ceased to exist?

is the object man-made? animal? vegetable? mineral? is it bigger than a finger? a hand? a toaster? a car?

are there many such objects in the world? or is this one unique?

are they a specific group of people? are they related? do they work together? study together? friends?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 582
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 4:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin
Did they think they lost the object? Yes, they may have
But had it all along? Nope

Shez
was it lost as in misplaced? Most like this
or did they lose possesion of it? Briefly
or access to it? Nope

did they lose it in the sense that it ceased to exist? No

is the object man-made? Man-made
animal? vegetable? mineral? Of these, mineral is closest.
Is it bigger than a finger? a hand? a toaster? a car? Bigger than a toaster, smaller than a car

are there many such objects in the world? Many objects of this kind...
or is this one unique? ...but this one was quite unique.

are they a specific group of people? Yes, but this could be misleading.
are they related? No
do they work together? YES
study together? Yes, in a way
friends? They could be
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 497
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did these people make the object?

is it a machine of some kind?
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were "they" scientists? Profession relevant?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 600
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez
did these people make the object? YES
is it a machine of some kind? Yes

Twilightseeker
Were "they" scientists? Yes
Profession relevant? Yes, see above
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Post Number: 178
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the machine...a computer? electronic device? steam-powered device? mechanical? Is time period relevant? This century? Last? Before that? Are these famous scientists? Unknown?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 4:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the machine...a computer? Yope
electronic device? Yes
steam-powered device? I wish, a steampunk puzzle would be cool.
mechanical? This too.

Is time period relevant? Not terribly
This century? Last? Before that? Since 2000

Are these famous scientists? Not really
Unknown? But I wouldn't say "unknown". I mean, clearly *I* know...
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 6:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

IS the device used for...
scientific experiments (e.g. centrifuge, NMR, etc)?
entertainment (e.g. stereo, mp3 player, jukebox)?
practical work (e.g. printer, scanner)?
communication (e.g. telephone)?
transportation?

Was this machine invented since 2000? Before?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 608
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

IS the device used for...
scientific experiments (e.g. centrifuge, NMR, etc) Yes, but be careful.
entertainment (e.g. stereo, mp3 player, jukebox)? No
practical work (e.g. printer, scanner)? No
communication (e.g. telephone)? No
transportation? No

Was this machine invented since 2000? Before? This specific one? Since 2000. Of these type - well before 2000.

HINT: There isn't any well known specific thing to be guessed here, but rather a type of thing. For example, guessing "a vehicle" rather than a car or a 4-door sedan or even a 2008 Volkswagen Jetta. Make sense?
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it used for medical purposes? Does the average person have one in their house? Use one? Are there a lot of these types of things? Are they well-known by most people?

Would it be found in a lab? In a house? Outside? In a hospital?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 628
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it used for medical purposes? No
Does the average person have one in their house? Not this specific one, but of this type - perhaps
Use one? see above
Are there a lot of these types of things? Yes, quite a few
Are they well-known by most people? The type -yes.

Would it be found in a lab? The type, yes
In a house? The type, perhaps yes
Outside? The type, this would be less common
In a hospital? The type, here too!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 629
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

AHEM:
Is it used for medical purposes? No, not this specific one. The type can be...

Sorry...I'm getting confused with this "type of thing" versus "the actual specific thing referenced in the puzzle".
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13248
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it made of glass? Metal? Wood? Plastic? Stone? Rubber? Plaster? Paper?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 635
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it made of glass? Metal? Wood? Plastic? Stone? Rubber? Plaster? Paper?
Honestly, I don't know the exact physical components and it's not really relevant. Metal and plastic are likely involved. Not sure about the rest...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 4:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it used for measuring something?
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 5:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thermometer?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 646
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it used for measuring something? The type - it could be. This one - No

Thermometer? No

Now that I think about it, I can remember this getting bogged down right about here last time I ran this puzzle too. In the interest of keeping this fun as opposed to frustrating...

HINT: Would it have helped if my puzzle title referenced Asimov?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robots?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robots? Oh Saints be praised! YES!!

It is a robot.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 13268
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the robot have artificial consciousness?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 651
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the robot have artificial consciousness? After some quick wiki-searching, I see there are too many different ideas and compenents packed into this term. Please be more specific so I can answer.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 543
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it stolen? did it walk away? was it accidentally moved to a different place?

is its particular function relevant?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it stolen? No
Did it walk away? YES!
Was it accidentally moved to a different place? Nope

Is its particular function relevant? Yes-ish. It is very relevant what it was designed to do/designed for.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it designed to think/talk on its own? Did it run away?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it designed to think/talk on its own? Think, yes. Talk, no.

Did it run away? YES!

I think if we get some specifics about what it was designed to do and what the running away made them realize - we're there!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I might have heard this story once, but can't remember the details.

Did it escape from a hospital? A laboratory? A testing facility?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think I might have heard this story once, but can't remember the details. You may have. Speaking of, did you really join in 2010? Because I could have sworn you were around back in '07 when I was last super active. Maybe just a similar user name.

Did it escape from a hospital? No
A laboratory? YES
A testing facility? No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 9:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it designed to run away? like, maybe it was designed to trigger mines and then get away as quickly as possible?

was it designed to play hide and seek?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 9:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ps. is it relevant where it ran to?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it designed to run away? No
like, maybe it was designed to trigger mines and then get away as quickly as possible? No, but that would be very clever!

was it designed to play hide and seek? No

ps. is it relevant where it ran to? Not terribly...and it was the car park/parking lot.

HINT: You may want to revist the Q Balin asked which I couldn't answer without more specifics. It might help you tie up the loose ends.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it designed to recognise danger?

was it designed to go away from certain things? to move towards certain things?

did its level of consciousness enable it to make decisions?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it designed to recognise danger? No

Was it designed to go away from certain things? to move towards certain things? This is OTRT.

Did its level of consciousness enable it to make decisions? Yes, but more pertinent is something it was programmed to do, which you are hinting at in your questions above.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I did join in 2010, a month or so after I discovered the forum. In fact, my one-year anniversary is only a few days away.

It was programmed...to be self-conscious? To make its own decisions?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It was programmed...to be self-conscious? As in aware it was a robot? No.

And now I have Wall-E in my head asking "Does this paint make my treads look fat?".

To make its own decisions? It could do this, with an aim in mind.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2011 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to go towards light?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Never saw WALL-E. How was it?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I liked Wall-E! =)
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Friday, April 22, 2011 - 4:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So it was programmed to go toward a certain thing, which is why it "ran away"? Was there something in the parking lot that it "thought" was supposed to go toward? Such as cars, concrete, etc? Or a more general thing like a different temperature/lighting/air pressure?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to go towards light? No

So it was programmed to go toward a certain thing, which is why it "ran away"? No, this is OTWT.

Was there something in the parking lot that it "thought" was supposed to go toward? Not at all
Such as cars, concrete, etc? Or a more general thing like a different temperature/lighting/air pressure? No to both.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2011 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it looking for something?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Sunday, April 24, 2011 - 12:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it looking for something? No
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This one seems to be languishing a little. Perhaps it’s time for a

RECAP:

“They” are scientists who created/designed “it” – a robot.

The robot was “lost” in that it “walked away”/”ran away” from the lab where they worked and, for a time, they did not know where it was. It was eventually found in a car park/parking lot. This detail is not relevant, but it is accurate – as this puzzle is based on a true story.

It is important what the robot was programmed to do/designed for. It Yopeishly involves artificial consciousness, but not the robot being aware it was a robot. We have determined that it WAS programmed to make decisions (and this is important as part of it’s ‘purpose’). It was not programmed to go towards anything or looking for anything. Additionally, it is of no importance that it ended up in the car park – the men’s loo or the cafeteria would have also been equally likely places for it to have been found.

So, we just need to figure out a little more about what the scientists were doing with the robot/what it was designed for…which should lead why the robot “running away” revealed “what they had” to the scientists.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I read about this one some time ago, but I can't recall any details.
Did the robot: see something relevant? Hear? Sense in some other way? Did it make an unexpected decision? Was it programmed to learn? Was "what they had" part of the robot? Or something other than the robot? Such as a security problem? Did they think the robot could not escape? Did the robot trick them?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2011 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the robot: see something relevant? Hear? Sense in some other way? No to the above

Did it make an unexpected decision? Yes, in that they didn't specifically expect it. NO, in that it was doing what it was programmed to do.

Was it programmed to learn? YES!

Was "what they had" part of the robot? No
Or something other than the robot? Also, no
Such as a security problem? Nope

Did they think the robot could not escape? It didn't occur to them that it could.

Did the robot trick them? Nope.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it learn how to escape?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it learn how to escape? Yep! And good enough for a....

***** SPOILER *****

Back in the olden days of 2002, scientists in the UK were working with what they called "living robots", programmed to think for themselves and learn from/adapt to new situations. Clearly they'd done a REALLY good job, as one of their robots, "Gaak" made a bid for freedom.

The robots had been battling each other in an arena, learning to adapt to the techniques and attacks of each other. Gaak had been separated for repairs when the scientist working with him was called away. In the 15 minutes he was gone, Gaak made it out of the corral he'd been left in, down an access slope and out the front doors, into the car park, where he was nearly run over by a visitor.

Best part of this story? The quote by the visitor, who was coming to see the new robots. "You can imagine how surprised I was when I nearly ran over one on my way in. I knew the robots interacted with each other but didn't expect to be personally greeted by one."

Full article can be found HERE.

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