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Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1132
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Only Jews could have experienced such irony.

(And NO, this is NOT Antisemitic)
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, do not google the title because you may find info that will essentially $poiyle the puzzle. Once you determine what is and isn't relevant, I will explain what I can about the title that won't give the solution away but will give you the other information you could achieve by googling it. I know that sounds confusing, but basically just don't google it. If you know the origin of the phrase, ask about it.
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have to do with their history? name(s)? Individual experience or a collective experience? Do Jews still experience this irony? If not, and it happened in the past, is the time period relevant? Any specific time? Or just the past in general?

Is this in part of the Torah or Old Testament? Other religious document or religious legend/myth/story, etc? Does this have to do with religion or more just the Jewish cultural heritage?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 11:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have to do with their history? Yesish/ Yope name(s)? Individual experience or a collective experience? both Do Jews still experience this irony? No If not, and it happened in the past, is the time period relevant? Any specific time? Or just the past in general? Up to the mid-19th century

Is this in part of the Torah or Old Testament? No, sort of, Other religious document or religious legend/myth/story, etc? No Does this have to do with religion or more just the Jewish cultural heritage? both
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 3508
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 12:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Passover relevant at all?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with cultural/legal restrictions on Jews?
Where they could live?
Professions they could hold?

I'm not Googling but it's REALLY tempting, because you said not to. It's like the purple cow thing...
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Passover relevant at all? YES!

Anything to do with cultural/legal restrictions on Jews?
Where they could live?
Professions they could hold? Only so much as that in the Passover story they were forced to be slaves and live in Egypt.

Also, to clarify: The ironic thing only happened up until mid-19th century US. However, Jews still could note the irony today, I suppose. And actually, they'd probably be more likely to than Jews then. By the way, now that you've determined Passover is relevant, I'll tell you that "All Other Nights" originates from the Four Questions, which ask "Why is this night different from all other nights". Feel free to google "Four Questions" or "Passover Four Questions", although it won't help you much.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the irony that they were not free? or that they were living in exile?

were US Jews not given certain rights till mid-19th century? the right to vote? to own property?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seder relevant?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any of the other of the Four Questions relevant?

Let's see - off the top of my head I can remember (paraphrased) "Why do we eat bread without yeast tonight" and "Why do we dip our herbs in salt water tonight". Are either of these relevant? Is the one I missed relevant?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1140
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the irony that they were not free? No, but slightly OTRT or that they were living in exile? No, not at all

were US Jews not given certain rights till mid-19th century? the right to vote? to own property? No to all

Seder relevant? Yesish/Yope

Are any of the other of the Four Questions relevant? See below

Let's see - off the top of my head I can remember (paraphrased) "Why do we eat bread without yeast tonight" and "Why do we dip our herbs in salt water tonight". Are either of these relevant? Is the one I missed relevant? First of all the "Why is this night different ... " is only an introduction to the Four Questions. It isn't actually one of them. And depending on the translation, the Four "Questions" may be statements, ie "On all other nights we eat all kinds of bread but on this night we only eat unleavened bread" essentially responding to the "Why is this night different from all other nights?" However, none of this is relevant. The "All other Nights" title is only relevant in the capacity which you would easily find using google, which would then make it very easy to $poil the puzzle, which is why I'm not letting you google it. So don't read too much into it.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Origin of Passover relevant? The first Passover?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Origin of Passover relevant? Somewhat. A part of the origin story is. The first Passover? Only as it relates to the relevant part of the origin
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Additional clarification on "Up until mid 19th century US" This could not have happened everywhere in the USA, although actually I suppose that it could have been, though in some places to a lesser degree than others. I don't know if this is going to give it away or not, but my answer to that question was misleading, so I wanted to make it clearer.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Angel of Death relevant? Staying indoors?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Angel of Death relevant? Staying indoors? No to both. Think more basic.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time of the year? Location?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time of the year? No Location? Location of the Jews when the events of Passover took place? Or the location of the Jews when the irony took place? No to the former, yes to the latter.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2011 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

location as in which state or states?

within specific towns or cities? ghettoes?

or within schools? universities? businesses?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

location as in which state or states? This, no to rest
within specific towns or cities? ghettoes?

or within schools? universities? businesses?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the irony take place in the US? In [LTPF list of states]? Did you experience the irony?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the irony take place in the US? Yes In [LTPF list of states]? Doing this would give a big chunk of the puzzle away so I won't do it. But I will say the states which would be "yes" all had something in common. Did you experience the irony? Was I alive in the middle of the 19th century? No. So no.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this happen during the Civil War?

Did the irony take place in the Southeast? New England? Midwest? Southwest? West Coast?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did this happen during the Civil War? Up to and including the Civil War. But it would have been somewhat more ironic durng.

Did the irony take place in the Southeast? New England? Midwest? Southwest? West Coast? It could be anywhere in the South. I'm not entirely sure I'd call Texas the Southeast, and Arkansas, Tennessee, and Virginia are questionably southeastern as well, but basically the South.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jews' views of secession relevant? Underground Railroad relevant?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jews' views of secession relevant? Underground Railroad relevant? No to all. You've gotten this far. Now think the OBVIOUS.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The actual Passover celebration relevant?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The actual Passover celebration relevant? Sort of, but I meant think OBVIOUS as in more simple than secession and the Underground Railroad. Once you figure that out, the irony will be obvious.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slavery?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slavery? BINGO!!!!!

*****SPOILER*****

This puzzle was based on a passage in the short story "Passover in New Orleans", soon to be expanded into a book entitled "All other Nights" (hence the title which you couldn't google). Basically, the plot deals with a Jewish Union soldier who is the nephew of Confederate Leader Henry Hymas visiting Hymas in New Orleans during Passover to assassinate him before Hymas leads a plot to assassinate President Lincoln. At one point in the short story, which may or may not appear in the novel, the soldier (who is the narrator) notes:

"I'm not sure if there's anything stranger than sitting down to a Passover Seder, the feast of freedom, with every part of the meal served by slaves. But that's exactly what happened at the home of Henry Hyams. It was a good thing a fair amount of the service was in Hebrew, I suppose, because it was a whole lot more comfortable without the slaves listening, though there were plenty of awkward passages about freedom that Henry read proudly in English from his seat at the table's head."

Surely this also happened at many other Passover Seders in the South, especially considering Judah Benjamin, who was essentially Jefferson Davis's right-hand man, was a Jew. Which is even somewhat more ironic considering we think as the South as being the racist ones, but Benjamin managed to rise to such prominence, while General Grant dismissed Jewish officers just because they were Jewish. Go figure. And if anyone wants to read the short story, you can find it at http://www.granta.com/Magazine/97/Passover-in-New-Orleans/Page-1
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2011 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow. Just...wow, that's insane. o.o
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Second the insanity.

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