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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6683
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When Lilina told her teacher Mr. Phelps that she was so upset about her parents' upcoming divorce that she would need to take an Incomplete in his course, he gave a reply that was sincere in a sense that she did not realize. How come?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lilina - H?A?F? Is she at college? high school? some other kind of school? Is the subject Mr. Phelps teaching relevant?

Are her parents actually getting a divorce? Relevant why? Does Lilina live with her parents?

Did Mr Phelps misunderstand something?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she failing the course anyway?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Posted on Monday, May 09, 2011 - 3:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his reply in any way indicate that she had FA about "need to take"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, May 09, 2011 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 7:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Lilina - H? yesA? irrelF? yes but irrel Is she at college? \b} possibly}high school? ditto some other kind of school? dittoIs the subject Mr. Phelps teaching relevant? no

Are her parents actually getting a divorce? irrelRelevant why? no Does Lilina live with her parents? irrel

Did Mr Phelps misunderstand something? no
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 9:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was she failing the course anyway?
Sapir (Sapir)
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Post Number: 58
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Posted on Monday, May 09, 2011 - 3:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did his reply in any way indicate that she had FA about "need to take"? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, May 09, 2011 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 9:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was she failing the course anyway? irrel
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1285
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Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he say something like "Your life is incomplete" which Lilina thought was just a snappy answer at first but then she realized that it was actually true now that her parents were getting divorced?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6686
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Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Monday, May 09, 2011 - 6:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Posted on Sunday, May 08, 2011 - 9:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
was she failing the course anyway? irrel
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1285
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Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 12:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did he say something like "Your life is incomplete" which Lilina thought was just a snappy answer at first but then she realized that it was actually true now that her parents were getting divorced? No, you're OWT (on the wrong track.)
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 992
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Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his reply:
Address her request to take an Incomplete?
Her parent's divorce?
Some aspect of her class performance?

Is the time of year/the semester relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6688
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Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 992
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Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 - 6:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did his reply:
Address her request to take an Incomplete?yope
Her parent's divorce? yope
Some aspect of her class performance?no

Is the time of year/the semester relevant? no
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1117
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he grant her an Incomplete?
Is this relevant?
Is the subject relevant?

Relevant why she's asking this teacher for an Incomplete rather than a Principal or other authority?

Does she have more than one class?
Is she requesting incomplete in them all?
Relevant?

Will she be leaving school?
Relevant?

Just to confirm - all she says is that 1) she wants an Incomplete and 2) because of her parent's divorce - Yes?
Are any of the specific words she uses relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6692
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Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1117
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Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 4:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did he grant her an Incomplete? irrel
Is this relevant? no no
Is the subject relevant?

Relevant why she's asking this teacher for an Incomplete rather than a Principal or other authority? no--that's whom you normally ask

Does she have more than one class? irrel
Is she requesting incomplete in them all? irrel
Relevant? no

Will she be leaving school? irrel
Relevant? no

Just to confirm - all she says is that 1) she wants an Incomplete and 2) because of her parent's divorce - Yes? yes
Are any of the specific words she uses relevant? no
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1086
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Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the teacher's statement about divorce? Parents? Classes? Education in general? Incompleteness? Is it ambiguos?

Is the teacher divorced? Getting a divorce? Are/were the teacher's parents? Relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6695
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Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1086
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Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 6:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the teacher's statement about divorce? not specifically Parents? ditto Classes? ditto Education in general? ditto Incompleteness? dittoIs it ambiguos?yes

Is the teacher divorced? irrel Getting a divorce? ditto Are/were the teacher's parents? ditto Relevant? no
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1087
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Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is at least one of the readings of the ambiguos statement about divorce? Parents? Classes? Education in general? Incompleteness? Lilina? Her parents? The teacher?

Are there exactly two relevant readings of the ambiguos statement? Three? Four? More?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6697
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Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1087
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Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 8:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is at least one of the readings of the ambiguos statement about divorce? yes Parents? yesClasses? noEducation in general? yope Incompleteness? no Lilina? noish Her parents? yopeThe teacher? yes

Are there exactly two relevant readings of the ambiguos statement? Three? Four? More? Only two that I can think of
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1093
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Posted on Friday, May 20, 2011 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there is a reading A and a reading B (yours to decide which is A and which is B).

Is the teacher aware of reading A? Reading B? Is Lilina aware of reading A? Reading B?

Is reading A about divorce? Reading B?
Is reading A about parents? Reading B?
Is reading A about education? Reading B?
Is reading A about Lilina? Reading B?
Is reading A about Lilina's parents? Reading B?
Is reading A about the teacher? Reading B?
Is reading A about the teacher's parents? Reading B?

Does the teacher have children?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6698
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Posted on Friday, May 20, 2011 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1093
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Posted on Friday, May 20, 2011 - 9:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So there is a reading A and a reading B (yours to decide which is A and which is B).

Is the teacher aware of reading A? Reading B? Is Lilina aware of reading A? Reading B? The teacher is aware of both readings. Lilina is aware of one but not the other.I'll call what the teacher sincerely meant, "A" & what Lilina took him to be saying "B."

Is reading A about divorce? yesish Reading B? yesish
Is reading A about parents? yesishReading B? yesish
Is reading A about education? noishReading B? no
Is reading A about Lilina? yesReading B? yes
Is reading A about Lilina's parents? yesishReading B? yesish
Is reading A about the teacher? yes Reading B? yes
Is reading A about the teacher's parents? no Reading B? no

Does the teacher have children? irrel
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, May 20, 2011 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm - both readings are clearly about Lilina, but it's noishly wrong that at least one is?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 1:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1096
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Posted on Friday, May 20, 2011 - 10:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Hmmm - both readings are clearly about Lilina, but it's noishly wrong that at least one is?BLOOOOOOPERRRRRRRRALERTTTTTTT!! both readings ARE clearly about Liliana
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: The sense in which Liliana understood the remark is so common that I bet most if not all people on this forum has made that remark in this sense at least once (& probably a lot more).
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Liliana take Reading B to be sarcastic?
Flipant?
Joking?
An attempt at humor?

1 word in what he said?
2? 3?

Did he express a hope should would return soon?
Did he say something philosophical about the nature of life, love or course work?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 2:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Liliana take Reading B to be sarcastic? no
Flipant? no
Joking? no
An attempt at humor? no

1 word in what he said?
2? 3? 6 words, 1 of which is a contraction

Did he express a hope should would return soon? no
Did he say something philosophical about the nature of life, love or course work? no
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he refuse her an Incomplete? did he indicate that she didn't need it? or that her parents would not be happy?

did he mean it in a good way and she took it badly? or vice versa?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 9:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
did he refuse her an Incomplete?irrel did he indicate that she didn't need it?b{ no} or that her parents would not be happy? no

did he mean it in a good way and she took it badly? no or vice versa? yes
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 1:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What does "to take an Incomplete" mean?

I realise that this isn't much of a question, but [a] I won't understand the puzzle without the answer; and [b] the syntax is fascinating in itself.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 1:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
What does "to take an Incomplete" mean? Welcome back, Woubit!! Taking an Incomplete in a course means receiving an official grade of Incomplete--with the understanding that a letter grade will be completed when the work is turned in (after the course is over. Don't you have this practice in the UK? I've taught at the U. of St. Andrews in Scotland but was never asked for an Incomplete.)

I realise that this isn't much of a question, but [a] I won't understand the puzzle without the answer; and [b] the syntax is fascinating in itself.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 6748
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: List the 5 most conventional responses to someone who has just told you about a misfortune that has befallen him.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see...
"Poor you!"
"Do you want to talk about it?"
"Things will take a turn for the better"
"I'll be there for you"
"Don't let it drag you down"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 7:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Let's see...
"Poor you!"
"Do you want to talk about it?"
"Things will take a turn for the better"
"I'll be there for you"
"Don't let it drag you down"? None of these so try 5 more, keeping in mind that this is not in a very intimate relationship--just teacher & student
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 928
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I'm sorry for your troubles"
"I hope it's better soon"
"I'm sure you can get through this"
"Things can only get better"
"I'm sorry"

I'd never heard of an incomplete either - in the UK or Spain
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 928
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 9:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
"I'm sorry for your troubles"
"I hope it's better soon"
"I'm sure you can get through this"
"Things can only get better"
"I'm sorry"none of these, but your first suggestion is closest. Think of a close variant on it.

I'd never heard of an incomplete either - in the UK or Spain
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the puzzle work with another misfortune?

I hadn't heard of an incomplete either... you live and learn (:
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2011 - 10:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the puzzle work with another misfortune? Yes, PROVIDED that Liliana is telling it to her teacher in the hope of getting leniency of some sort

I hadn't heard of an incomplete either... you live and learn (:
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I'm sorry to hear that"?
"That's too bad"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1291
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 7:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
"I'm sorry to hear that"? yes!!!
"That's too bad"? no

****** SPOILER ************

When Lilina told her teacher Mr. Phepls that she was so upset (no doubt she said 'traumatized') over her parents' divorce that she "needed" to take an Incomplete in his course, he replied, "I'm sorry to hear that." She thought he was expressing sympathy rather than his unwillingness to hear about her personal life. He should follow my policy--any student of mine who wants an Incomplete automatically gets it. I don't pry into students' personal lives by asking their reasons. I think wanting more time is a great reason all by itself. Please check out my new puzzle you know where.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 938
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

phew! I think we were being a bit dense about that. Thanks Nimue

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