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Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1202
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stupid or less than prepared criminals are common fodder for puzzles around here – and with good reason! Tales of poorly planned and shoddily executed crime are entertaining and a good lateral thinking workout as there are endlessly novel ways for folks to be dumb. However, this isn’t one of those puzzles…

Leo had thought through every step of his crime. In fact, he was caught because of his thoughtfulness.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1104
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he leave evidence in the process of planning the crime? If so: Material one, like notes? Or only data, like logfiles and library records?

Was he caught before actually committing the crime? While committing it? After committing it but while securing the advantage he got out of it (e.g. while selling the haul)? Even later?

What crime(s): Murder? Robbery? Theft? Embezzlement? Fraud? Arson? Assault? Doing damage to property? Treason? Bribery? Smuggle? Tax evasion?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1207
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 1:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he leave evidence in the process of planning the crime? No
If so: Material one, like notes? No
Or only data, like logfiles and library records? No

Was he caught before actually committing the crime? No
While committing it? Yes
After committing it but while securing the advantage he got out of it (e.g. while selling the haul)? Even later? No to these

What crime(s): Theft with a side order of B&E
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 13959
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 3:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he call ahead his crime in advance ("Hello, P&C Bank, I'm going to rob you in 20 minutes, have the 10s and 20s ready")?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Username: Rbruma

Post Number: 1489
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 7:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want to be caught? (To cover another major crime, for instance, or to obtain an alibi)
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 887
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he plan for something which didn't happen and then gave him away?

did he break into a house? shop? factory?

was the building empty when he broke in? was he discovered by the police? a passer-by? the occupants of the building?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1210
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin
Did he call ahead his crime in advance ("Hello, P&C Bank, I'm going to rob you in 20 minutes, have the 10s and 20s ready")? No, but very entertaining thought!

Rbruma
Did he want to be caught? No
(To cover another major crime, for instance, or to obtain an alibi) Nope

Shez
did he plan for something which didn't happen and then gave him away? No, but OTRT

did he break into a house? No
shop? Yes, shop/cafe
factory? No

was the building empty when he broke in? NO
was he discovered by the police? No
a passer-by? No
the occupants of the building? No
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Username: Rbruma

Post Number: 1492
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the one / ones who discovered him humans? Animals? Security devices? (Like motion sensors, etc)

Is this a true story?

Relevant when this happened? (Like year? Or like: time of day?)

Relevant the location of the cafe?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1213
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the one / ones who discovered him humans? One human
Animals? No
Security devices? (Like motion sensors, etc) No

Is this a true story? Yes

Relevant when this happened? (Like year? No
Or like: time of day? A little...It was night.

Relevant the location of the cafe? No, general suburban area.
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 892
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he discovered by a security guard? the owner of the shop/cafe? a customer? someone who had come to this building for a specific purpose?

did he switch on a light? answer a phone?

did he plan for something which he thought would happen, and it did happen? did it happen at the wrong time? or in an unexpected way?

did he break in through a window? a door?

was there a burglar alarm?

did the plan involve a disguise?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1220
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he discovered by a security guard? No
the owner of the shop/cafe? Yes
a customer? No
someone who had come to this building for a specific purpose? No

did he switch on a light? No
answer a phone? No

HOW he was discovered is not terribly relevant. He made too much noise; the owner heard him.

did he plan for something which he thought would happen, and it did happen? Yes...
did it happen at the wrong time? In a way
or in an unexpected way? Also, in a way

did he break in through a window? a door? Door.

was there a burglar alarm? Irrelevant

did the plan involve a disguise? No
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 897
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the thing he planned for that the owner would be away?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1223
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the thing he planned for that the owner would be away? no
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 901
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the amount of noise relevant? did he make a lot of noise as a result of his meticulous planning?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 1329
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he take copious notes of his plan, then leave said copious notes at the crime scene by mistake?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1228
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez
is the amount of noise relevant? No-ish
did he make a lot of noise as a result of his meticulous planning? The noise that alerted the owner? No.

Gregoryuconn
Did he take copious notes of his plan, No
then leave said copious notes at the crime scene by mistake? No
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
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Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 801
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2011 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he aware of the noise that he made? Did he expect the owner not to hear his noise?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1230
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2011 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he aware of the noise that he made?Yes
Did he expect the owner not to hear his noise? Yes
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Username: Sundowner

Post Number: 752
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Monday, May 30, 2011 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Title relevant?
Did he stumble over a garbage can?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 1119
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 7:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he expect the owner to be absent? Distracted? Deaf? Dead?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1237
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner
Title relevant? In a general way
Did he stumble over a garbage can? No, though that would have been clever of me.

Markobr
Did he expect the owner to be absent? Yes Distracted? Deaf? Dead? None of these

HINT:
Repeating what I said on 05/25 "HOW he was discovered is not terribly relevant. He made too much noise; the owner heard him."

The owner "discovered" he was in the building, but this is NOT the "caught" used in the title. He was caught by the police...why?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 1122
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2011 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the owner, hearing the noise, think it was a burglar? Did the owner call the police?

Did the burglar, before commiting his crime, contact the owner? Contact the police?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 823
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he leave evidence on the crime scene?
Did he leave any personal item behind, which helped to identify him?
Was he seen by anybody while committing a crime?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1244
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr
Did the owner, hearing the noise, think it was a burglar? Yes
Did the owner call the police? Yes...but there is a key event between these two questions missing.

Did the burglar, before commiting his crime, contact the owner? No
Contact the police? Before? No.

Redwine
Did he leave evidence on the crime scene? No
Did he leave any personal item behind, which helped to identify him? no
Was he seen by anybody while committing a crime? I don't know if seen, but the owner was there at the time so...
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 1132
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the burglar try to leave before the police arrived? When the police arrived?

Did the owner do anything relevant between hearing the noise and calling the police?

Did the burglar contact the police during his crime (as opposed to the normal case of the police "contacting" the criminal)? If so: Intentionally?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 3233
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the shop/cafe open for business when the burglar entered the building? Or was this after business hours?
Is it relevant what the owner was doing in the shop/cafe at the time the other man entered?
Is this particular shop/cafe a stand alone building? Or is this a business which occupies a portion of a larger building?
Did the burglar bring any tools along? A phone? Another electronic device? Any other type(s) of object(s)?

So...owner hears the noise, does something, then calls the police - right?
Did the owner investigate the source of the noise before calling police? Was he investigating it as he was calling police? Did the burglar, at any time, activate an audible or silent alarm?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1249
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr
Did the burglar try to leave before the police arrived? Yes and...
When the police arrived? No

Did the owner do anything relevant between hearing the noise and calling the police? YES!

Did the burglar contact the police during his crime (as opposed to the normal case of the police "contacting" the criminal)? In a way
If so: Intentionally? Irrelevant

Ixoye724
Was the shop/cafe open for business when the burglar entered the building? No
Or was this after business hours? And thus yes

Is it relevant what the owner was doing in the shop/cafe at the time the other man entered? No. But as it happens, he was asleep.

Is this particular shop/cafe a stand alone building? Or is this a business which occupies a portion of a larger building? Irrelevant

Did the burglar bring any tools along? A phone? Another electronic device? Any other type(s) of object(s)? Irrelevant

So...owner hears the noise, does something, then calls the police - right? Correct

Did the owner investigate the source of the noise before calling police? Yes
Was he investigating it as he was calling police? No

Did the burglar, at any time, activate an audible or silent alarm? Irrelevant
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 1134
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the owner do something which prevented the burglar from leaving? Something to be sure it's a burglar who is making the noise?

Did the burglar leave before being caught by the police?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 3234
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the burglar inside the shop when police arrived? Outside, but still near the building?
Outside, and not near the building?
Was the burglary successful? In other words, did the burglar steal what he intended to steal?
Was the motive of the burglary to take money? Merchandise? Something else?

Possible longshot - did the burglar attempt to impersonate the owner when the police arrived, and make it look as if the actual owner was the one who had attempted the burglary (this would take some thinking ahead of time)?
Is it relevant where the owner was sleeping? In a bed? On the floor?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1271
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr
Did the owner do something which prevented the burglar from leaving? YES!
Something to be sure it's a burglar who is making the noise? No

Did the burglar leave before being caught by the police? No

Ixoye724
Was the burglar inside the shop when police arrived? No
Outside, but still near the building? Yes
Outside, and not near the building? No

Was the burglary successful? No
In other words, did the burglar steal what he intended to steal? No
Was the motive of the burglary to take money? Merchandise? Something else? Not Relevant

Possible longshot - did the burglar attempt to impersonate the owner when the police arrived, and make it look as if the actual owner was the one who had attempted the burglary (this would take some thinking ahead of time)? No

Is it relevant where the owner was sleeping? In a bed? On the floor? Not relevant
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 931
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the burglar intend to leave by car?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1274
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the burglar intend to leave by car? Yes!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 3236
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the burglar intend to leave by his own car? Or by another car? By the same car he used to get to the store? Or did he not arrive at the shop by car?
When police arrived, was the burglar inside a car? In the act of getting into a car? Getting out of a car? Driving a car?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1278
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the burglar intend to leave by his own car? Yes
Or by another car? No
By the same car he used to get to the store? Yes, his own.
Or did he not arrive at the shop by car? No, he did.

When police arrived, was the burglar inside a car? No
In the act of getting into a car? No
Getting out of a car? No
Driving a car? No
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 937
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 5:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did his careful planning involve leaving his car in a particular spot? with the engine running? had his tax disc expired?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 3237
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant to know what the burglar was doing when police arrived?
Was he readily identifiable as the burglar? Or did the owner have to identify him to police?
Was anyone else present at the crime scene besides the burglar and the owner?
Had the burglar locked his car with the keys inside it?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1289
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez
did his careful planning involve leaving his car in a particular spot? No
with the engine running? YES!
had his tax disc expired? No

Ixoye724
Is it relevant to know what the burglar was doing when police arrived? Not really
Was he readily identifiable as the burglar? Perhaps not
Or did the owner have to identify him to police? Perhaps
Was anyone else present at the crime scene besides the burglar and the owner? No
Had the burglar locked his car with the keys inside it? No

I think we have nearly all the pieces here...Anyone care to put them together?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3238
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Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 7:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Preferably someone else, I'm hitting dead ends...

Did the car run out of gas during the robbery?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Username: Sundowner

Post Number: 773
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the owner take out the car key?
and after the thief had entered the car he locked the car doors?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 839
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the owner drive away in burglar's car?
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 941
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did someone else steal his car?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1299
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724
Preferably someone else, I'm hitting dead ends... I know that feeling.

Did the car run out of gas during the robbery? No

Sundowner
Did the owner take out the car key? No
and after the thief had entered the car he locked the car doors? No, but this would have been clever.

Redwine
Did the owner drive away in burglar's car? YES!!

Shez
did someone else steal his car? Yep, see above

You-know-what coming right up!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1300
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Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

****** SPOILER ******

Leo thought he had every detail covered in his planned break-in to a café in a suburb of Tampa, FL. However, he didn’t count on the owner being there or being so quick thinking. Hearing noises, the owner awoke, became aware Leo was in his café, and headed out the back door – where he found Leo’s getaway car, with the engine running.

The owner got in Leo’s car and drove away, calling the police on his cell phone. Leo came out to find his car gone and the police arriving, who he was initially happy to see. The owner returned to his café once police arrived and Leo tried to get the police to arrest the owner for stealing his car. However, the police weren’t having any of it and took Leo away instead.


Thanks to all who played! Hopefully it was fun and 100 points to Redwine for the final solve.
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 945
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

excellent puzzle! thanks
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Username: Ixoye724

Post Number: 3241
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ha, I thought perhaps the owner would have done that but then thought, "That's too obvious, it must be something else." Great puzzle.

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