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Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 103
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Based on a real incident my dad told me about last night.
How was a woman finally caught after decades of embezzling money from her place of employment?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3494
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she still working there when she was caught? Or was it her leaving that caused her to be found out?

Is the nature of her employers business relevant? Relevant where this took place?

Was she an accountant or accounts clerk? or did she handle cash transactions? did she deal with the public at all?

This puzzle reminds me of my favourite winning entry to the Sunday Times compose a crossword clue competition. Each week a word is given and readers are invited to submit a cryptic crossword clue to the word. The word was Embezzle and the winning clue was "Appropriate Inappropriately". Wish I'd thought of that.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1053
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did her employers realise that someone was embezzling before they found out it was her?

or was it more a case of finding her out and then realising how long it had been going on?

did this all take place at her place of work? or did someone visit her home? did someone see photos of her house, car etc?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 104
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Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds like a rather neat competition.

Was she still working there when she was caught? Yes. Or was it her leaving that caused her to be found out? Yope.

Is the nature of her employer's business relevant? I'm not sure what other types of business would have worked here, so maybe. Relevant where this took place? No.

Was she an accountant or accounts clerk? No. or did she handle cash transactions? Yes. did she deal with the public at all? Yes.

did her employers realise that someone was embezzling before they found out it was her? No.

or was it more a case of finding her out? Yes. and then realising how long it had been going on? Yes.

did this all take place at her place of work? Yes. or did someone visit her home? did someone see photos of her house, car etc? Neither of these.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1059
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Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did she wear fancy clothes and jewellery to work? take expensive holidays?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 105
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Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did she wear fancy clothes and jewellery to work? No. take expensive holidays? No. Her spending did not give her away.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3495
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Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she was stealing cash? Was she somehow showing her till as balanced? Was there one specific event that gave her away? A stocktake? a random cash inspection?

Had she an accomplice?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what her position was? CEO? Normal employer? If so, relevant what kind of normal employer? Slave? Is it relevant the industry of the company? If so, may I invoke the [LTPF List of Industries]?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 106
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Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she was stealing cash? As in spendable currency, I think so. I'm trying to keep this as loyal to the true story as I can. Was she somehow showing her till as balanced? Sort of. Was there one specific event that gave her away? Sort of. A stocktake? Pretty sure this is a "no". a random cash inspection? No.

Had she an accomplice? No.

Is it relevant what her position was? Yes. CEO? No. Normal employee? As in "lower down than the CEO/owners", yes. If so, relevant what kind of normal employee? Yes. Slave? No. Is it relevant the industry of the company? Probably, the more I think about it. If so, may I invoke the [LTPF List of Industries]? Restaurant industry.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1072
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Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she responsible for paying the wages? paying the suppliers?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 107
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Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was she responsible for paying the wages? Irrelevant. paying the suppliers? Possibly relevant. Explore.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she have any access to the company's bank accounts? or their daily banking deposits? or any bank related dealings?

Is the amount of the embezzlement relevant? was it large enough to suggest that the company was very remiss not to have spotted it?

Customers tips relevant?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1075
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Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ooh! ooh! did she suddenly swap swindling them? say she got sick or something? and they noticed they suddenly had extra money?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 108
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Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she have any access to the company's bank accounts? or their daily banking deposits? or any bank related dealings? General answer: She probably did not take money directly from a bank account after it was deposited. She had a role in the finances, and did have access to the cash on hand.

Is the amount of the embezzlement relevant? Sort of or indirectly; it was fairly large. was it large enough to suggest that the company was very remiss not to have spotted it? Probably. Sorry for the vague answers, but they're all I can do.

Customers tips relevant? No. Amusingly enough, the restaurant this was based on, since the wait was so long on crowded nights, had bartenders making upward of $150,000 a year, and this amount in the 1990s - you'd head to the bar (and tip on your drinks) if you're waiting for a seat, right?

did she suddenly swap swindling them? If you mean "stop", then yes. say she got sick? No. and they noticed they suddenly had extra money? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1081
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

sorry, I did mean stop.

did they notice that she'd been swindling them because she stopped?

had she been falsifying the suppliers' invoices?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 109
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Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 4:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they notice that she'd been swindling them because she stopped? Yes and no, for different reasons.

had she been falsifying the suppliers' invoices? No, but this is vaguely on the right track.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 8:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there invoices at all?
Did her job include buying food for the restaurant?
if so: did she buy the food at the local farmer's market? or directly from the producer? without invoice? a particular food relevant? if so: vegetables? meat? fruit? fish? wine?
Did she cheat by reporting that she had spent more than she actually did?
Did she cheat on travel expenses?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 110
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Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there invoices at all? Yes.
Did her job include buying food for the restaurant? Yes.
did she buy the food at the local farmer's market? The restaurant needed way too much to buy from one of these. or directly from the producer? Yes. without invoice? No. a particular food relevant? Not really. if so: vegetables? meat? fruit? fish? wine? Largely meat, but this is irrelevant.
Did she cheat by reporting that she had spent more than she actually did? No.
Did she cheat on travel expenses? No.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 3:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she buy products of inferior quality? Or maybe something else that what was stated in the invoice, something which was normally less priced?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 6:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she buy products of inferior quality? No. Or maybe something else that what was stated in the invoice, something which was normally less priced? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the invoices contain non-existent items? did she create her own invoices? did she change the quantities on the invoices?

did she order extra stuff which she sold?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 112
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 2:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the invoices contain non-existent items? No. did she create her own invoices? No. did she change the quantities on the invoices? Not the number of items, no.

did she order extra stuff which she sold? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 8:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did she change the quantities of individual items?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the weight of the produce relevant?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 113
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did she change the quantities of individual items? No.

Is the weight of the produce relevant? No.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did all of the meat she bought end up being prepared and served by the Restaurant?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify:
or directly from the producer? Yes


When you say "from the producer" do you mean this restaurant was purchasing from a farm or farms?
Or that is was purchasing from a restuarant supply company (such as Sysco)?
Is this relevant?
Is it relevant that it is VERY unusual for a restaurant to by directly from the farmers/butchers etc?

We established she was stealing money, yes?
Not food or products?
And not falsly billing the company, yes?

Was she stealing physical cash?
Siphoning money into a personal account?

Was she altering invoices?
Was she show a higher quality product on the billing that what was actually ordered and delivered?
Is any particular type of meat relevant?

Was anyone else in the restaurant involved in her embezzlement?
Anyone outside the company?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 114
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did all of the meat she bought end up being prepared and served by the Restaurant? Yes.

When you say "from the producer" do you mean this restaurant was purchasing from a farm or farms? I think so. Food origin is irrelevant.
Or that is was purchasing from a restuarant supply company (such as Sysco)? See above.
Is this relevant? No.
Is it relevant that it is VERY unusual for a restaurant to by directly from the farmers/butchers etc? At the time, this was one of the largest restaurants in the world.

We established she was stealing money, yes? Yes.
Not food or products? Yes.
And not falsly billing the company, yes? This is really weird to answer. I can't give away details about the finances any more without possibly dropping huge hints. Sorry if this has been confusing.

Was she stealing physical cash? Most likely.
Siphoning money into a personal account? After taking the cash.

Was she altering invoices? Technically, no.
Was she show a higher quality product on the billing that what was actually ordered and delivered? No.
Is any particular type of meat relevant? No. Food type is irrelevant.

Was anyone else in the restaurant involved in her embezzlement?
Anyone outside the company? No to both.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she doubling the invoices?
Is it relevant, how was she paying the producers for the food?
Was the theft made when she:
ordered products?
paid for products?
accounted invoices?

Did she steal every day? Once a week? Once a month? Irregularly?

Did she pay all the current invoices of the company? Did she pay taxes for the company?

Was she buying also products for herself and paying for it from company's account?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 4:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she a hoarder?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she doubling the invoices? No.
Is it relevant, how was she paying the producers for the food? No.
Was the theft made when she:
ordered products?
paid for products?
accounted invoices? Closest to this, but ordering and paying for products also factor in somehow. None of these three really hit the nail on the head, so to speak.

Did she steal every day? Once a week? Once a month? Irregularly? This, but fairly frequently.

Did she pay all the current invoices of the company? Assume yes. Did she pay taxes for the company? Irrelevant.

Was she buying also products for herself and paying for it from company's account? No.

Was she a hoarder? No.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was her theft limited to something involving the invoices?
Did she steal from all invoices?

Is rounding relevant?
Was she rounding invoice amounts up to the nearest dollar? Nearest 5? Nearest 10?
And keeping the difference?

Did she deal with customers directly in her job?
Was she a waitress?
A bartender?
Or was she more managerial at the restaurant?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 116
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Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2011 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was her theft limited to something involving the invoices? A product ordered, and thus invoiced, is involved.
Did she steal from all invoices? No.

Is rounding relevant?
Was she rounding invoice amounts up to the nearest dollar? Nearest 5? Nearest 10?
And keeping the difference? Clever idea, but rounding dollar amounts is irrelevant.

Did she deal with customers directly in her job? Yes.
Was she a waitress?
A bartender?
Or was she more managerial at the restaurant? This.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2011 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me see if I've got this straight:

She orders product X -- Product X is delivered together with an invoice from the producer -- She has to pay the producer the amount of the invoice using company money, correct?

So -- does she steal by not paying the right amount? By paying in a different currency?

You say that she also deals with the customers -- is it relevant that she deals with both the customers and the suppliers?

Or she deals only with the customers and other persons are on the procurement part?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2011 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She orders product X -- Product X is delivered together with an invoice from the producer -- She has to pay the producer the amount of the invoice using company money, correct? Yes. This Product X is the most relevant one to our situation here.

So -- does she steal by not paying the right amount? The invoice is paid in full. By paying in a different currency? No.

You say that she also deals with the customers -- is it relevant that she deals with both the customers and the suppliers? Yes.

Or she deals only with the customers and other persons are on the procurement part? No.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she reselling any of product X?
Is the invoice correct?
Is the price on the invoice fair and competitive?

Does she sell Product X directly to customers without any changes to it?
(For example, selling cheesecake rather than selling ground beef as a burger?)

The money she is stealing:
Is it coming to her from the company's bank account?
From the customers?
From the supplier?

Is she stealing physical cash - bills and coins?
Or is she stealing "electronic" money?
Is credit card fraud involved?
Loyalty or reward points?

Is she stealing the same amount each time?

On average, in each incident of theft is she stealing:
less than $20?
Less than $50?
less than $100?
less than $500?
less than $1000?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, July 08, 2011 - 2:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she reselling any of product X? As in "stealing it from the company to sell to other clients", no. If not what you mean, hard to answer. Again I can't drop too big of a hint. (:
Is the invoice correct? Yes.
Is the price on the invoice fair and competitive? Irrelevant.

Does she sell Product X directly to customers without any changes to it? I think this gets a yes.

The money she is stealing:
Is it coming to her from the company's bank account? No.
From the customers? Yes.
From the supplier? No.

Is she stealing physical cash - bills and coins? Most likely. Assume this.
Or is she stealing "electronic" money? Assume no; this could be tracked.
Is credit card fraud involved? No.
Loyalty or reward points? No. Clever idea, though. This likely pre-dates the modern abundance of rewards cards.

Is she stealing the same amount each time? No.

On average, in each incident of theft is she stealing:
less than $20?
Less than $50? Roughly this.
less than $100?
less than $500?
less than $1000?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, July 08, 2011 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thinking about the headline .. is the product beef?
Did she cheat her customers on the size of the steaks?
But apart from that, an attempt to recap:
- she is purchasing food from the producer?
- pays in cash?
- gets a correct invoice (the invoice shows the exact amount of what she got and the right price)?
- she pays exactly the amount on the invoice?
- she sells food to the customers?
- the customers pay in cash?

So, she gets more from the customers than what her employer would expect her to get?
and she knows that and keeps the difference?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, July 08, 2011 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thinking about the headline .. is the product beef? The most relevant tangible item is not beef. The restaurant is well-known to this day as a steakhouse, which is where the title came from.
Did she cheat her customers on the size of the steaks? No. Food is served normally.

But apart from that, an attempt to recap:
- she is purchasing food from the producer? Yes.
- pays in cash? Probably from the business (checking) account.
- gets a correct invoice (the invoice shows the exact amount of what she got and the right price)?
- she pays exactly the amount on the invoice? All invoices to all suppliers are normal, but there's something a bit different with one of the products invoiced.
- she sells food to the customers? Yes.
- the customers pay in cash? Sometimes.

So, she gets more from the customers than what her employer would expect her to get? Yes.
and she knows that and keeps the difference? Yes.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, July 08, 2011 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Steakhouse:
Outback?
Texas Roadhouse?
Black Angus?
(those are the only ones I can think of right now)
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, July 08, 2011 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she steal from all of the customers?
Or just some?

Is it a high-end steakhouse?
Does the exact steakhouse matter?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Saturday, July 09, 2011 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Steakhouse:
Outback?
Texas Roadhouse?
Black Angus? Not a chain, this is also irrelevant.

Does she steal from all of the customers?
Or just some? This.

Is it a high-end steakhouse? Sort of. Largely just high customer volume.
Does the exact steakhouse matter? It doesn't.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just some...Hmmm. I am assuming they have something in common, but checking is good.

Do the customers she steals from have something in common?
Do they all pay in cash?
With credit cards?
Do they all come in for lunch?
Dinner?
Dinner on busy weekend nights (Fri & Saturday)?
Do they all order the same thing?
A common group of things?
Do they all order the same course?
As in salad?
Dessert?
Is the number of people in the party relevant?
The gender mix of the party?
The age mix?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Post Number: 121
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Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2011 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the customers she steals from have something in common? This.
Do they all pay in cash? Now that I think about it, yes. If I stated otherwise, my mistake and consider this to be an erratum.
With credit cards?
Do they all come in for lunch?
Dinner?
Dinner on busy weekend nights (Fri & Saturday)?
Do they all order the same thing? This, sort of.
A common group of things?
Do they all order the same course?
As in salad?
Dessert?
Is the number of people in the party relevant?
The gender mix of the party?
The age mix?
None of the others are relevant.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2011 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the thing they order some sort of meal deal?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2011 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the thing they order some sort of meal deal? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they all choose the buffet?

do they all ask for something extra to go with their meal? a side order?

do they all order a drink? from the bar?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they all choose steak? does she charge them for a better cut of meat than what she serves them?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she charge them correctly for what they order?
Does she fully disclose any additional charges?
For example, if a salad is extra and she asks "Do you want a salad?" does she let them know this will be an additional charge?
Does she ring in their purchase correctly?
Does the restaurant use automated checks and billing?
Hand written checks?
Is this relevant?
Does she give them correct change for their purchase?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they all choose the buffet? No.

do they all ask for something extra to go with their meal? a side order? No to both.

do they all order a drink? from the bar? No to both.

do they all choose steak? No. does she charge them for a better cut of meat than what she serves them? No.

Does she charge them correctly for what they order? Yes.
Does she fully disclose any additional charges? Yes.
For example, if a salad is extra and she asks "Do you want a salad?" does she let them know this will be an additional charge? Irrelevant.
Does she ring in their purchase correctly? Yes.
Does the restaurant use automated checks and billing? In the way you're thinking, this is probably irrelevant. We'll see, though.
Hand written checks?
Is this relevant? See above.
Does she give them correct change for their purchase? Yes.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 4:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is tipping relevant?

Re: Automated checks/billing -
I was asking if the restaurant uses a computer order/billing system. For example, the server goes to a computer, selects preprogrammed buttons corresponding to the menu items orders, which rings through to the kitchen, and at the end of the meal, generates the bill for the table.

There are ways in this system to overbill. For example, to ring in a salad before an entree which may cause the computer to charge for both. Whereas ringing in the entree will bring up a prompt for selecting the soup or salad included with the entree (at no charge). Does that make sense?

Are we making this more complicated than it needs to be?
Is she placing all monies received into the register at the end of the transaction/night?
Is she giving change in legal tender?
From the register?
From her own pocket?
Is this relevant?
(For some reason I am now thinking of giving counterfit monies as change.)
Is she giving foriegn money as change?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is tipping relevant? No.

Re: Automated checks/billing -
I was asking if the restaurant uses a computer order/billing system. For example, the server goes to a computer, selects preprogrammed buttons corresponding to the menu items orders, which rings through to the kitchen, and at the end of the meal, generates the bill for the table.

There are ways in this system to overbill. For example, to ring in a salad before an entree which may cause the computer to charge for both. Whereas ringing in the entree will bring up a prompt for selecting the soup or salad included with the entree (at no charge). Does that make sense? This makes complete sense, and is a good guess, but it is still irrelevant.

Are we making this more complicated than it needs to be? Heh, good question. Probably, in that ideas have been explored when they are in fact red herrings, but of course our rules state I don't have to tell you when - just give Yes/No. :D
Is she placing all monies received into the register at the end of the transaction/night? Not all money, no.
Is she giving change in legal tender? Yes.
From the register? Yes.
From her own pocket? No.
Is this relevant? In some cases.
(For some reason I am now thinking of giving counterfit monies as change.) Irrelevant, but nice guess.
Is she giving foriegn money as change? No.

A hint may be dropped soon, or a summary that clarifies the direction I want the thinking to go in.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she keeping the money she is not placing in the register?
Putting somewhere else?
Somewhere she is supposed to put it, as per company policy?

Is the money she is keeping the money customers leave to cover their bill?
Is she making correct change?
Or is she taking more money than she should for the change, but then pocketing some of it?

Is she deliberately stealing the money?
Or is the theft due to some mistake or ignorance on her part?

Backing up - she is managerial, but for some reason she is dealing with customer checks, yes?
Is she serving a cashier or some similar function?

Does she deal with ALL customer checks or just certain checks?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she keeping the money she is not placing in the register? Yes.
Putting somewhere else? No.
Somewhere she is supposed to put it, as per company policy? No.

Is the money she is keeping the money customers leave to cover their bill? No.
Is she making correct change? To customers, yes.
Or is she taking more money than she should for the change, but then pocketing some of it? No.

Is she deliberately stealing the money? Yes.
Or is the theft due to some mistake or ignorance on her part? No.

Backing up - she is managerial, but for some reason she is dealing with customer checks, yes? Yes.
Is she serving a cashier or some similar function? Sometimes.

Does she deal with ALL customer checks or just certain checks? Only certain types are relevant to this puzzle.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is she stealing tips?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is she stealing tips? No. One or two more rounds of questioning and I'll drop somewhat of a hint.
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 4:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, let's review, with a push in the right direction.
The woman is embezzling by an unconventional method. She is taking cash directly from the restaurant's revenue. One product that is regularly sold becomes her means of theft. Under her supervision, the product is altered slightly from its original method of production, which allows its sale to be abused.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the product sold as another product?

is the product altered so that it has greater volume? by adding water? or another foodstuff?

is it more straightforward, like selling turkey escalopes as veal?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the product hollowed? And something stuffed in it? Money?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 9:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is its original method of production a cooking method? a recipe?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 2:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the product sold as another product? No.

is the product altered so that it has greater volume? by adding water? or another foodstuff? None of these.

is it more straightforward, like selling turkey escalopes as veal? No.

Is the product hollowed? And something stuffed in it? Money? None of these.

is its original method of production a cooking method? a recipe? Neither.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is its original production method the way it is served? put on a plate?

packaged?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But (as we found out) she did not save on the ingredients of the product?
So she sold the product to the customers as "product variant 1"? and reported to her employer that she sold "product variant 2"? while variant 1 is sold at a higher price than variant 2?
Or was it simply that the product appeared on the menu with a higher price than she reported to her employer? and the employer did not check the menus until ..?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is its original production method the way it is served? No. put on a plate? No.
packaged? No.

But (as we found out) she did not save on the ingredients of the product? A weird way to put it considering this particular item, but yes.
So she sold the product to the customers as "product variant 1"? and reported to her employer that she sold "product variant 2"? while variant 1 is sold at a higher price than variant 2? The variants are the same with one very minor exception. The variance serves no purpose other than making her scheme less detectable by others at the restaurant.

Or was it simply that the product appeared on the menu with a higher price than she reported to her employer? and the employer did not check the menus until ..? Neither.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it help to identify this particular item?
Does it contain meat? potatoes? vegetables? fruits? is it a dessert? a drink? is it food at all?
(as you mentioned earlier that no type of food is particularly relevant)
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it help to identify this particular item? Yes.
Does it contain meat? potatoes? vegetables? fruits? is it a dessert? a drink? is it food at all? It's not. Well done, this would have been a large hint to drop.
(as you mentioned earlier that no type of food is particularly relevant) Indeed.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you have been hinting - like no recipe or cooking method or list of ingredients

is it a drink? is it a service? is it an item you can usually buy in a restaurant?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it actually a tangible item that was handed out to the customers? or was it essentially a cover charge she put on the bill?
Did she sell beer mugs, coffee mugs, wine glasses, and the like to the customers? while she reported these items to her employer as broken?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it a drink? No. is it a service? Not strictly. is it an item you can usually buy in a restaurant? Yes.

Was it actually a tangible item that was handed out to the customers? Yes. or was it essentially a cover charge she put on the bill? No.
Did she sell beer mugs, coffee mugs, wine glasses, and the like to the customers? No. while she reported these items to her employer as broken? No.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a gift card or certificate?
A plate?
Silverware?
Renting a table to them?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a gift card or certificate? We have a winner. There's not much more to guess to completely solve this. Nice work.
A plate?
Silverware?
Renting a table to them? None of these.
Ostap (Ostap)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she sell gift cards to the customers? and as there is always a percentage of gift cards that is not used up by the customers (some are lost, some expire, ..) she made a profit for herself on that?
Did a customer write a letter to the management? and mentioned gift cards? so her employer found out?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she sell gift cards to the customers? Certificates, but yes. and as there is always a percentage of gift cards that is not used up by the customers (some are lost, some expire, ..) she made a profit for herself on that? She did not claim the unspent balance.

Did a customer write a letter to the management? and mentioned gift cards? so her employer found out? Customers have nothing to do with her employers finding out.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when cash-paying customers paid for their food, did she use a certificate against the payments and pocket the cash?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2011 - 7:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

when cash-paying customers paid for their food, did she use a certificate against the payments and pocket the cash? No, but this might be somewhat closer.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she sell counterfeit certificates? Does she sell both real and counterfeit ones, and pocket the cash she is paid for the counterfeit ones? Does her job include redeeming the certificates? So that she can destroy the evidence? Or are they really good counterfeits? Or am I OTWT?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she sell the certificates but fail to activate/log them?
Were the certificates usable by the customers?
Did the restaurant even issue certificates or did she create her own?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, August 19, 2011 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she sell counterfeit certificates? No. Does she sell both real and counterfeit ones, and pocket the cash she is paid for the counterfeit ones? No. Does her job include redeeming the certificates? It could, but other employees could handle this process. So that she can destroy the evidence? No. Or are they really good counterfeits? No. Or am I OTWT? Sort of.

Did she sell the certificates but fail to activate/log them? No.
Were the certificates usable by the customers? Fully.
Did the restaurant even issue certificates or did she create her own? The restaurant issued them, but remember that she had them modified somehow.
Salaam (Salaam)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was sertificate as discount for all meals?
for one sort of meals?
one meal?
ecology relevant?
do she changed some letters/words/numbers in the sertificate?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did she have the amount changed? the date? the number of people/meals?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was sertificate as discount for all meals? Yes, it worked on any sort of food.
for one sort of meals?
one meal? See above.
ecology relevant? No.
do she changed some letters/words/numbers in the sertificate? Yes.

did she have the amount changed? No. the date? Perhaps...this idea is relevant. the number of people/meals? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Reselling used certificates relevant? Or does she modify new certificates before selling them? Or modify them when she redeem them?
Salaam (Salaam)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the date of sertificate written in full format?
(year month day)?
Which part of date had she changed?
Did she changed 1, 2,3......100 (choose) symbols in the sertificate?
Would this affair work in vegetarian restourant?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Reselling used certificates relevant? No. Or does she modify new certificates before selling them? This is how she has them modified. Or modify them when she redeem them? No.

Was the date of sertificate written in full format? No.
(year month day)? No.
Which part of date had she changed? Might as well: She had the date removed.
Did she changed 1, 2,3......100 (choose) symbols in the sertificate? If you mean serial numbers, you're on the right track with this question.
Would this affair work in vegetarian restourant? Yes.
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 3:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the theft occur when customers redeemed the certificate?

Or when the certificate was bought?
For instance, it's easy enough to purchase a certificate using the exact amount of money required. In this case, she wouldn't need to open the till to give change and could pocket the money without a record of the sale. If there were no date/serial number on the certificate, it would be difficult to track the sale. Am I OTRT?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the theft occur when customers redeemed the certificate? No.

Or when the certificate was bought? Yes.
For instance, it's easy enough to purchase a certificate using the exact amount of money required. In this case, she wouldn't need to open the till to give change and could pocket the money without a record of the sale. If there were no date/serial number on the certificate, it would be difficult to track the sale. Am I OTRT? You're exactly correct, or close enough to warrant a spoiler. Nice work!

*****************SPOILER******************
This happened at least a decade ago. The woman, who ran the Hill Top restaurant in Saugus, Massachusetts when the owner was away (this was rather often) had access to the ability to alter the gift certificates, which she had printed without dates or serial numbers so the sales couldn't be traced to one point in time. When she sold a certificate for cash, she would pocket any or all of the sale as she saw fit. When she went on vacation for a month, the remainder of the staff noticed that they were selling about twice the value of gift certificates as usual, while redemption stayed the same. Over a few decades, she made off with about $750,000 and the owner had so little proof that he had no choice but to simply terminate her employment.


Thanks for playing, everyone!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

that's unbelievable! good puzzle Dukhsan, I think we were a bit slow this time. or I was anyway!

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