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Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1592
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana posted a puzzle in whose $poiler she explained that she felt that saying the first name of a female person who did excel in a particular domain is a sexist act. This inspired the following puzzle


Chaos sometimes ensues in politics or in acting. Please explain.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1590
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Huh! This is the second puzzle that was dedicated to me - I'm flattered!

Sexism relevant?
Names? mentioning someone's name? not mentioning someone's name?

Politics - elections relevant? presidents? parliaments? state visits?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1593
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Huh! This is the second puzzle that was dedicated to me - I'm flattered! Your puzzles inspire us - or at least inspired me on this one :-)

Sexism relevant? No
Names? Yope mentioning someone's name? Yope not mentioning someone's name? Noish

Politics - elections relevant? presidents? parliaments? state visits? None
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 3905
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

acting - mentioning or not mentioning the name of a certain play by Shakespeare? "break a leg"?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1594
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

acting - mentioning or not mentioning the name of a certain play by Shakespeare? No. Acting as in what an actor does "break a leg"? No
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1597
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Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are first names relevant? last names? nick names?

Political speeches relevant?

acting - memorising lines relevant? performing on stage? rehearsing?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1596
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Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are first names relevant? Yesish last names? Yes nick names? No

Political speeches relevant? No

acting - memorising lines relevant? performing on stage? rehearsing? Noish to all.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1090
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Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2011 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

actors assume the identity of another person?

actors sometimes adopt stage names?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1599
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

actors assume the identity of another person? They do, but this is somewhat misleading in the context of this puzzle

actors sometimes adopt stage names? True, but also a bit misleading

HINT: Some essential starting questions have not been asked yet. Without those, proceeding further is a delicate thing and might lead to premature FAs
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1599
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time/location relevant? If so, the usual [LTPF lists] please.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1600
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time/location relevant? If so, the usual [LTPF lists] please. Yes, both are relevant. The United States and Germany -- for location. The 19th and the 20th century -- for time
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For the 20th century, are the First and Second World Wars relevant? Are they the subjects of the plays/movies the actors are in?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For the 20th century, are the First and Second World Wars relevant? No

Are they the subjects of the plays/movies the actors are in? They - who?

Some basic questions still need to be asked
Kaygee (Kaygee)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 4:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps the politicians are the actors?
Berlin wall relevant?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1099
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

chaos sometimes ensues - after an event? a decision? a change?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1604
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Perhaps the politicians are the actors?
Berlin wall relevant?

No to both

chaos sometimes ensues - after an event? DOYD of event
a decision? YES
a change? No
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1114
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 12:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a decision to change something? to reorganise or restructure something? to do something?

is it related to language? an election?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1607
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a decision to change something? to reorganise or restructure something? to do something? This one

is it related to language? an election? No to both

HINT: Politics is only marginally relevant. We are looking for something an actor did.
Dbw (Dbw)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Only marginally relevant? Well, 1 out of the 7 words in the puzzle is "politics" and it comes before "acting". Can you rephrase?

Does it have anything to do with John Wilkes Booth and/or Abraham Lincoln?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1609
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Posted on Monday, July 04, 2011 - 7:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Only marginally relevant? Yes, as it will become clear as the puzzle progresses Well, 1 out of the 7 words in the puzzle is "politics" and it comes before "acting". Can you rephrase? I think the statement is fine as it is
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1610
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Posted on Monday, July 04, 2011 - 7:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have anything to do with John Wilkes Booth and/or Abraham Lincoln? No
Dbw (Dbw)
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Posted on Monday, July 04, 2011 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

scratching head

Does the statement refer to a single incident?

Is the puzzle statement fiction? nonfiction?

Have you ever personally witnessed "chaos ensuing" in this way?

Is a particular actor relevant?

Is a particular politician? A U.S. President? A German politician?

Is World War I relevant? WW2? The Berlin Wall? East Germany? West Germany? The Third Reich? The Weimar Republic?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1612
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Posted on Monday, July 04, 2011 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the statement refer to a single incident? Yope

Is the puzzle statement fiction? It was coined by me but it relates to allegedly non-fictional events nonfiction?

Have you ever personally witnessed "chaos ensuing" in this way? No-ish

Is a particular actor relevant? YES!

Is a particular politician? YES! A U.S. President? No A German politician? YES! But beware a slight FA

Is World War I relevant? WW2? The Berlin Wall? East Germany? West Germany? The Third Reich? The Weimar Republic? None of those
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2011 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, back WAY way up...

There is a relevant actor, yes?
HAM?
Is his nationality relevant?

There is also a German politician, yes?
HAM?
Are the actor and politician both alive at the same time?
Do they interact?
Are they the same person?

Other relevant persons here?
More than one?
Many?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2011 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, back WAY way up...

There is a relevant actor, yes? Yes
HAM? Yes
Is his nationality relevant? Yes

There is also a German politician, yes? Yes
HAM? Yes
Are the actor and politician both alive at the same time? No
Do they interact? No
Are they the same person? No, but...

Other relevant persons here? No
More than one?
Many?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 8:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they share a surname? forename? are they related?

do they share a particular characteristic?

did they both make the same decision?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1621
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Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they share a surname? YES! forename? No are they related? No

do they share a particular characteristic? See above

did they both make the same decision? No

Well done. Discovering who the two are will require me to $poil
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1610
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Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, we determined that the 19th and 20th centuries are relevant and that they were not both alive at the same time.

Is the actor one known in the US?
Well-known?
Movie actor?
TV actor?
Is the actor currently alive?
Is the politician?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, July 08, 2011 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the German politician still alive? still active in politics? Is he famous? because of his surname? (Cajus Julius Caesar?)
Is the decision mentioned before related to chosing a name? changing one's name?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1623
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Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, we determined that the 19th and 20th centuries are relevant and that they were not both alive at the same time. Correct

Is the actor one known in the US? I suppose so
Well-known? Ditto
Movie actor? Yes
TV actor? AFAIK he appearead on TV, not sure though if in a movie
Is the actor currently alive? No
Is the politician? No

Is the German politician still alive? No still active in politics? So, no Is he famous? Yes because of his surname? No (Cajus Julius Caesar? Is that a German politician?)
Is the decision mentioned before related to chosing a name? changing one's name? No to both
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1630
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Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the actor still alive? If so, is he younger than 20? than 30? 40? 50? 60? older? Is he American? Is he still active?

Was the politician active in politics before World War I? Before World War II? Before the Reunification? If he was active after WWII, was he active in Western Germany? Eastern Germany? Was he ever the Chancellor of Germany? The President of Germany?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the actor still alive? As mentioned before, no If so, is he younger than 20? than 30? 40? 50? 60? older? Is he American? Yes. The rest is N/A Is he still active?

Was the politician active in politics before World War I? Yes Before World War II? Before the Reunification? If he was active after WWII, was he active in Western Germany? Eastern Germany? Was he ever the Chancellor of Germany? The President of Germany? He didn't have any official role, as far as I know, but he did studies on politics and he was engaged from time to time in political matters
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1631
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Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Is the actor still alive? As mentioned before, no" - Oops, must have overlooked that question.

Did the actor die in [LTPF list of decades]?
Did the politician die in [LTPF list of decades]?

Karl/Groucho Marx?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1627
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Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2011 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Is the actor still alive? As mentioned before, no" - Oops, must have overlooked that question.

Did the actor die in [LTPF list of decades]?
Did the politician die in [LTPF list of decades]?

Karl/Groucho Marx? Indeed, well done



****** SPOILER ******

Doriana recently posted a puzzle in which she seemed to favour mentioning only the last names of persons, apparently out of fear for sexism, an opinion to which I objected.

It is said about Groucho: "The family was going through airport customs and, while filling out a form, Groucho listed his name as "Julius Henry Marx" and his occupation as "smuggler." Thereafter, chaos ensued".

Thinking about the results of Marxism in Europe and elsewhere, I thought that mentioning the first name is still a good habit. I would like to have the information -- besides "Marx has said" -- Groucho or Karl? :-)

Thanks to all who participated and to Doriana for the solve.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1638
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Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very clever puzzle!

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