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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 1:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

True story: A German nursing home had difficulty with its senile residents, who regularly escaped the grounds, wandered away and had to be retrieved. What lateral solution did they find to this problem?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 3:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since it is a lateral solution, I assume it had nothing to do with electronics, e.g. a braclet or anklet?
Does it depend on the interaction of the residents with other people in the community? With the staff? With each other?
Would this work anywhere, or just in Germany?
Is the nursing home in a rural, urban, or suburban area? Relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 3:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Since it is a lateral solution, I assume it had nothing to do with electronics, e.g. a braclet or anklet? Correct.
Does it depend on the interaction of the residents with other people in the community? No. With the staff? No. With each other? No.
Would this work anywhere, or just in Germany? Anywhere.
Is the nursing home in a rural, urban, or suburban area? Unknown, assume urban or suburban. Relevant? Mildly.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 4:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the solution prevent the residents from ever leaving the grounds? or did it allow them to find their way back easily once they left?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 5:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've heard this one, so I can't participate, but I just wanted to say it's a GREAT choice for a puzzle topic. Have fun, y'all =)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they tie them to very long pieces of elastic?

did they get them all dogs who would bring them back?

fit them with homing devices so that they could be tracked?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the solution prevent the residents from ever leaving the grounds? Yes, with a small ish. or did it allow them to find their way back easily once they left? No.

did they tie them to very long pieces of elastic?

did they get them all dogs who would bring them back?

fit them with homing devices so that they could be tracked? No to all.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Possible $poiler e-mailed.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they take their shoes away?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they take their shoes away? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was anything taken away from the resisdents? was anything extra given to them?

did they publish rewards for every elderly person brought back?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was anything taken away from the resisdents? was anything extra given to them?

did they publish rewards for every elderly person brought back? No to all.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was something done to the perimeter of the nursing home? did they build a moat?

did they get geese, which would make a lot of noise if someone tried to make a getaway?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 6:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was something done to the perimeter of the nursing home? Yesish. did they build a moat? No.

did they get geese, which would make a lot of noise if someone tried to make a getaway? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they grow some trees or plants there?

did they build a little dyke all te way round that the old folk couldn't climb up very easily?

did they put in cattle grids?

was the change just to the gates or entrances, or all the way round?

did they put down cobblestones which deterred people from walking across?

did they make it nicer for them to stay inside the home?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they grow some trees or plants there?

did they build a little dyke all te way round that the old folk couldn't climb up very easily?

did they put in cattle grids?

was the change just to the gates or entrances, or all the way round? The change was just to the entrance. Excellent question.

did they put down cobblestones which deterred people from walking across?

did they make it nicer for them to stay inside the home? No to the rest.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they put a little kiosk there with tea and cakes, so shen the old folk got there they didn't want to leave and sat down to drink tea instead?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

lolol! I love that idea Shez, it deserves to be right even if it isn't (not that I know if it is or not, I have no idea) *giggles*
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

it's that or chhezburgerz
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is any of the senses involved? or the deterioration of them as one gets older?
Seeing? Hearing? Tasting? Touching (I don't think that deteriorates, but you know what I mean). Balance?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

o yes, should be teh cheezburgurz Shez! Shez, yuo iz ignores mai puzzelz nao? =/
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they put a little kiosk there with tea and cakes, so shen the old folk got there they didn't want to leave and sat down to drink tea instead? Good idea! But no.

Is any of the senses involved? or the deterioration of them as one gets older?
Seeing? Hearing? Tasting? Touching (I don't think that deteriorates, but you know what I mean). Balance? All irrelevant.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they play techno music near the entrance so the patients didn't want to go near?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they play techno music near the entrance so the patients didn't want to go near? No.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they build some new structure at or near the entrance? Create/play some sound? Music? Make a smell? Put some kind of light there? That annoys the old people if they go near it? Or did they build a sign? Say something? Something untrue? That made the patients want to stay inside? Would this work if they had a mental disability (like Down Syndrome) instead of senility due to old age?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they put a mirror on the door? so either the patients would think someone was walking through the door toward them? or else that the door didn't go outside, but rather into another hallway?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they put a cattle grid at the entrance?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they build some new structure at or near the entrance? Yes. Create/play some sound? Music? Make a smell? Put some kind of light there? That annoys the old people if they go near it? Or did they build a sign? Say something? Something untrue? That made the patients want to stay inside? No to all else. Would this work if they had a mental disability (like Down Syndrome) instead of senility due to old age? Depends on the disability, but I'd say likely no.

Did they put a mirror on the door? so either the patients would think someone was walking through the door toward them? or else that the door didn't go outside, but rather into another hallway? No to all.

did they put a cattle grid at the entrance? No.
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild guess: Is there a military angle to this, as there is to many of your puzzles?

Even wilder and weirder guess:Did they maybe paint a swastika on the door, and the patients refused to go past it?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild guess: Is there a military angle to this, as there is to many of your puzzles? No.

Even wilder and weirder guess:Did they maybe paint a swastika on the door, and the patients refused to go past it? No.
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 12:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a relevant time-frame? Is this more or less current, or at some time in the past?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a relevant time-frame? Is this more or less current, or at some time in the past? Current, and that is relevant inasmuch as this could not have happened a hundred years ago, but certainly 50.
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there some sort of disincentive for the elderly that would leave, comprehensible even to the senile?

Would the senile residents always attempt to leave if there was no physical barrier in their way? If there was a barrier, could a regular, middle-aged person easily surpass it?

Was the entrance made to look like any of the following: a construction site, something that the elderly were by and large afraid of, something they did not fully understand?

Was any employee of the home present at or nearby the entrance?

Were they reminded that they were already at home, perhaps as a response to forgetting where they were?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 2:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me see if I have this right:
The puzzle involves some kind of technology that existed 50 years ago and still exists, but did not exist 100 years ago?
Radio? Loudspeaker/public address system? Television?
Or am I making WA's?
Abc (Abc)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a revolving door relevant?
Did the measure taken thwart attempts to leave the grounds?
Or rather stopping such attempts to be made in the first place?
Is a physical obstacle at all relevant?
Would the installed measures work only (or mostly) on senile people?
Would it work equally well on non-senile people with a bad short-term memory?
Was there a PIN-code pad, where the correct code had to be entered, and that code was published on a sign positioned a 3-minute walk away from the entrance?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me see if I have this right:
The puzzle involves some kind of technology that existed 50 years ago and still exists, but did not exist 100 years ago?
Radio? Loudspeaker/public address system? Television?
Or am I making WA's? Yes. I don't quite know if I should call it technology.

Is a revolving door relevant? No.
Did the measure taken thwart attempts to leave the grounds? Yes.
Or rather stopping such attempts to be made in the first place? No.
Is a physical obstacle at all relevant?
Would the installed measures work only (or mostly) on senile people? Mostly, but
Would it work equally well on non-senile people with a bad short-term memory? No.
Was there a PIN-code pad, where the correct code had to be entered, and that code was published on a sign positioned a 3-minute walk away from the entrance? No.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the solution rely on the people having poor memory? having difficulty understanding a complex instruction? or is it more important that they walk out without full conscious awareness of what they are doing, i.e. "on autopilot"?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the solution rely on the people having poor memory? having difficulty understanding a complex instruction? or is it more important that they walk out without full conscious awareness of what they are doing, i.e. "on autopilot"? This, to an extent.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there something "weird" about how the door opens, that would confuse someone who is acting blindly on "instinct"? Like there is a doorknob, but turning it does nothing, and the real locking mechanism is hidden elsewhere?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and along those lines, would this also be a good strategy to prevent sleepwalkers from leaving the building (as I'm sure has happened at certain types of care facilities too!)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there something "weird" about how the door opens, that would confuse someone who is acting blindly on "instinct"? Like there is a doorknob, but turning it does nothing, and the real locking mechanism is hidden elsewhere? No.

Oh, and along those lines, would this also be a good strategy to prevent sleepwalkers from leaving the building (as I'm sure has happened at certain types of care facilities too!) No.
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it work on blind people? Deaf people?
Are signs relevant?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it the door itself? does it open inwards?
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Repost because my questions about 11 posts up seem to have been accidentally skipped.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there some sort of disincentive for the elderly that would leave, comprehensible even to the senile? No.

Would the senile residents always attempt to leave if there was no physical barrier in their way? Yes. If there was a barrier, could a regular, middle-aged person easily surpass it? The original plan was to lock patients in their rooms, until they realized that wasn't exactly humane.

Was the entrance made to look like any of the following: a construction site, something that the elderly were by and large afraid of, something they did not fully understand? No to all.

Was any employee of the home present at or nearby the entrance? Irr.

Were they reminded that they were already at home, perhaps as a response to forgetting where they were? No.

Would it work on blind people? Not unless they had seeing-eye dogs. Deaf people? Yes.
Are signs relevant?

is it the door itself? No. does it open inwards? Irr.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they paint some kind of tromp l'oeil picture on the door so that it looks like something else? just a part of the wall or something?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 2:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do they paint some kind of tromp l'oeil picture on the door so that it looks like something else? just a part of the wall or something? No.
Abc (Abc)
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Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, let's say that I am a non-senile person approaching the exit. Will I have to do something special in order to do that?
Such as open a door? Gate?
Open some sort of handle or latch?
Say something?
Punch a code?
Read something?
Solve a riddle (in the widest sense)?
Is a physical mechanism that must be operated relevant at all?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 12:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, let's say that I am a non-senile person approaching the exit. Will I have to do something special in order to do that? No.
Such as open a door? Gate?
Open some sort of handle or latch?
Say something?
Punch a code?
Read something?
Solve a riddle (in the widest sense)?
Is a physical mechanism that must be operated relevant at all? None of the above.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would a senile person recognise the door as a door?

be distracted by something else?

be afraid to approach the door?

did they put a mirror on the back of the door?
Abc (Abc)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We are talking about passing through an exit here, right?
Exit from a room?
From a building?
From the premises in general?
From indoors to outdoors?
Indoors to indoors?
Outdoors to outdoors?
Outdoors to indoors?
Passing through an opening in something (defined in the widest sense)?
In a wall (such as a door)?
In a fence?
Ostap (Ostap)
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Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As you mention it: did whatever they did prevent the patients from leaving the hospital? make them return after they left? make it easier to find them once they had gone?
Is the hospital located directly at the roadside? (so that the patients after passing the door would stand on the sidewalk of a road?)
or is the hospital surrounded by a garden or park? (so that the patients may freely pass the door to get into the park? but were somehow prevented from leaving the premises?)
Would other people (staff, visitors) be able to leave the hospital's premises because of some extra knowledge they have? (like: it is told to visitors "when you leave, do .. and .. in order to get out")
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 4835
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2011 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would a senile person recognise the door as a door? Yes.

be distracted by something else? Yes.

be afraid to approach the door? No.

did they put a mirror on the back of the door? No.

We are talking about passing through an exit here, right? Hmm, partly.
Exit from a room?
From a building?
From the premises in general? This.
From indoors to outdoors?
Indoors to indoors?
Outdoors to outdoors? This.
Outdoors to indoors?
Passing through an opening in something (defined in the widest sense)? No.
In a wall (such as a door)?
In a fence?

As you mention it: did whatever they did prevent the patients from leaving the hospital? make them return after they left? make it easier to find them once they had gone? This.
Is the hospital located directly at the roadside? (so that the patients after passing the door would stand on the sidewalk of a road?) Yes.
or is the hospital surrounded by a garden or park? Likely, but irr. (so that the patients may freely pass the door to get into the park? but were somehow prevented from leaving the premises?) No.
Would other people (staff, visitors) be able to leave the hospital's premises because of some extra knowledge they have? (like: it is told to visitors "when you leave, do .. and .. in order to get out") Not quite, though they do need to know something relevant.
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Username: Solitiare

Post Number: 52
Registered: 7-2011
Posted on Sunday, July 31, 2011 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the hospital use some kind of GPS or something similar? a "virtual fence"?
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 1412
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are we talking about a gate then?

did they keep a load of kittens by the gate so that the old people would stop to make a fuss of them?

did they pass through a footbath which made them leave indelible footprints behind them? did something mark their clothes?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Username: Biograd

Post Number: 1839
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2011 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm... in one of my very first questions I asked whether it prevented them from ever leaving the grounds in the first place, or whether it helped them get back once they had left. You answered yesish to the first, and no to the second.

In the last set of questions, you said that the solution did not prevent the patients leaving, but made it easier to find them once they had left.

So it doesn't help them find their way back, but it helps others find them? So do they leave some sort of trail behind, like with the footprint example?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 938
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they put any particular items next to the gate, which were to be taken by leaving people, so that anyone seeing an elderly person with that specific leaflet/newspaper/etc. knew that he is from the hospital?

Did they hire anybody to "guard" the gate?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 4837
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the hospital use some kind of GPS or something similar? a "virtual fence"? Neither.

are we talking about a gate then?

did they keep a load of kittens by the gate so that the old people would stop to make a fuss of them?

did they pass through a footbath which made them leave indelible footprints behind them? did something mark their clothes? No to all.

Hmm... in one of my very first questions I asked whether it prevented them from ever leaving the grounds in the first place, or whether it helped them get back once they had left. You answered yesish to the first, and no to the second.

In the last set of questions, you said that the solution did not prevent the patients leaving, but made it easier to find them once they had left.

So it doesn't help them find their way back, but it helps others find them? Yes. So do they leave some sort of trail behind, like with the footprint example? No.

Did they put any particular items next to the gate, which were to be taken by leaving people, so that anyone seeing an elderly person with that specific leaflet/newspaper/etc. knew that he is from the hospital? OTRT.

Did they hire anybody to "guard" the gate? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 14324
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they use bloodhounds? Is scent relevant in any way?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 4838
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they use bloodhounds? No. Is scent relevant in any way? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 1574
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were their shoes left by the gate, so anyone not putting on their shoes before they left would be noticed in the street?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 4839
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were their shoes left by the gate, so anyone not putting on their shoes before they left would be noticed in the street? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 4155
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm confused. Earlier you said:
Did the measure taken thwart attempts to leave the grounds? Yes.
Then you said did whatever they did prevent the patients from leaving the hospital? make them return after they left? make it easier to find them once they had gone? This.
Do you mean they can leave the building, but not the grounds? Because of something done with the door to: the building? The grounds? Are there guards?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 4840
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 11:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm confused. Earlier you said:
Did the measure taken thwart attempts to leave the grounds? Yes.
Then you said did whatever they did prevent the patients from leaving the hospital? make them return after they left? make it easier to find them once they had gone? This.
Do you mean they can leave the building, but not the grounds? Yes. Because of something done with the door to: the building? The grounds? Are there guards? No to all.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 4162
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2011 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will they try to leave the grounds? Are the grounds fenced in?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 4842
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2011 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will they try to leave the grounds?
Yes. Are the grounds fenced in?
Assume no.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 4184
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2011 - 10:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will they try to leave the ground in a specific direction? Any direction? Are there other obstacles that are not fences? If so, do they: stop them from leaving? Make them try to leave in a specific direction? Make them not want to leave? Make them think they have left when they have not?
Mimino (Mimino)
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Username: Mimino

Post Number: 70
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This remembers me a 60's comedy where a man run away from an asylum and readily jumped onto a bus, only to see that the bus took him back to the asylum...

Did they set up something like this? a fake bus stop in front of the hospital, where from time to time a bus would pick up the people waiting there and take them back to the hospital? (however, with this I would have some doubts whether it is ok to cheat old people this way ..)

Anyway, can the idea they employed in the widest sense be described as a trap? a place where the old people most likely would end up after leaving the hospital and could be picked up by the staff?
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 1658
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Love the bus stop idea

how about a revolving door with only one way in and out, so when you go in you're forced to go through 360 degrees before you can get out again?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 4844
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will they try to leave the ground in a specific direction? Yes. Any direction? Are there other obstacles that are not fences? If you can call it an obstacle. If so, do they: stop them from leaving? Make them try to leave in a specific direction? This is closest. Make them not want to leave? Make them think they have left when they have not?

Did they set up something like this? a fake bus stop in front of the hospital, Yes! where from time to time a bus would pick up the people waiting there and take them back to the hospital? But no. (however, with this I would have some doubts whether it is ok to cheat old people this way ..)

Anyway, can the idea they employed in the widest sense be described as a trap? Yes. a place where the old people most likely would end up after leaving the hospital and could be picked up by the staff? Yep.

Now, why does the bus stop work?


how about a revolving door with only one way in and out, so when you go in you're forced to go through 360 degrees before you can get out again? That would stop normal visitors from getting out too, though.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 4226
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the old people think a bus will be coming? While it's obvious for others that it's a fake? Is it an older style bus stop? That only old people will recognize? And only demented (?) people will think is still working?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 14488
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 6:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they just put a fake bus stop there? And no bus ever comes? So they just pick up the potential escapees there, who are waiting for a nonexistent bus?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 4845
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 3:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they just put a fake bus stop there? And no bus ever comes? So they just pick up the potential escapees there, who are waiting for a nonexistent bus? Yep.

****SPOILER****

Somehow, the staff determined that the first place a senile person wants to go is home (their original home, not the old-folks' home that they have forgotten they live in). So they head out the front gate, and the first thing they see is a bus stop. Where they patiently wait for a bus to take them home.

The catch is that local, non-senile residents were at first unaware of this cunning scheme, and they too waited for a nonexistent bus until disabused by the hospital staff!
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 1696
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Friday, August 26, 2011 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wonderful!

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