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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7115
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A common etiquette problem has a paradoxical solution. What is the problem? What is the solution?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 1218
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the problem relate to: eating? drinking? romance? families? meeting people? greeting people? money? school? travel? interactions between people of different cultures? language? shaking hands? kissing? behaviour of children? queuing? buying things? selling things? speaking? listening? facial expressions? bodily movements? saying goodbye? making social arrangements? gifts? clothes?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7121
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 1218
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 8:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
does the problem relate to: eating? no drinking? no romance? no families? no meeting people? nogreeting people? no money? no school? no travel? yesinteractions between people of different cultures? no language? no shaking hands? no kissing? no behaviour of children? no queuing? possiblybuying things? noselling things? no speaking? no listening? no facial expressions? bodily movements? noishsaying goodbye? no making social arrangements? no gifts? noclothes? yesish
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 1221
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you say this relates to travel - to a specific form of travel? by car? bus? train? public transport? air? boat?
or does it relate to travelling and behaviour in another country?
does it relate to behaviour when travelling with other people?
does it relate to what to wear while travelling?
does it relate to a specific item of clothing? hats? shoes? coats? gloves? umbrellas?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7124
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 1221
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 9:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
you say this relates to travel - to a specific form of travel? yes by car? no bus? the most likely form train? possiblypublic transport? yes air? noboat? very unlikely
or does it relate to travelling and behaviour in another country?no mot=re than in the USD
does it relate to behaviour when travelling with other people?
does it relate to what to wear while travelling? no
does it relate to a specific item of clothing? yes hats? no shoes? yes--this is NOT a typocoats? no gloves? no umbrellas? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 1224
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does this relate to putting feet on the seat? smelly feet? people slipping their shoes off and their feet smelling?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2011 - 9:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
does this relate to putting feet on the seat? nosmelly feet? no people slipping their shoes off and their feet smelling? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 2:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A specific type of shoe relevant?
Wearing shoes without socks relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1858
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 7:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Waiting for the bus relevant? Getting on the bus relevant? Sitting down? Being on the bus? Offering your seat? Getting off the bus?

Relevant whether the bus is crowded?

High heeled shoes relevant?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

has it to do with standing? sitting? crossing your legs?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 2:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
A specific type of shoe relevant? yes
Wearing shoes without socks relevant? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 7:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Waiting for the bus relevant? no Getting on the bus relevant? noSitting down?see next answerBeing on the bus? see next answerOffering your seat? yes Getting off the bus? no

Relevant whether the bus is crowded? yes

High heeled shoes relevant? yes
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 8:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
has it to do with standing? yes (see above)sitting? ditto crossing your legs? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 2:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
A specific type of shoe relevant? yes
Wearing shoes without socks relevant? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 7:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Waiting for the bus relevant? no Getting on the bus relevant? noSitting down?see next answerBeing on the bus? see next answerOffering your seat? yes Getting off the bus? no

Relevant whether the bus is crowded? yes

High heeled shoes relevant? yes
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1634
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 8:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
has it to do with standing? yes (see above)sitting? ditto crossing your legs? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are ONLY high heeled shoes relevant? All women's dress shoes? All dress shoes? All women's shoes? none of the above, but more than just high heeled shoes?

Does it have to do with giving up a bus seat for someone else? To someone wearing high heels? To women? Or might someone wearing high heels be the one giving the seat up?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1654
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the problem not knowing whether a woman will be offended if a man offers to give up his seat because she may be an ardent feminist?

but if she's wearing high heels she won't take offence because she's not that kind of feminist?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7134
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 9:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are ONLY high heeled shoes relevant? no All women's dress shoes? noAll dress shoes? no All women's shoes? no none of the above, but more than just high heeled shoes? yes

Does it have to do with giving up a bus seat for someone else? yes To someone wearing high heels? yes To women? yesOr might someone wearing high heels be the one giving the seat up? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the etiquette problem whether one should give up one's seat? for a woman? for an old woman? for an old person? for some other type of person?
is it relevant that some people may be offended by someone offering them a seat?

is it relevant that men might wear shoes that have heels? look like women's shoes?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 9:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is the etiquette problem whether one should give up one's seat? yes for a woman? see next answer for an old woman? yesfor an old person? see previous answerfor some other type of person? no
is it relevant that some people may be offended by someone offering them a seat? yes

is it relevant that men might wear shoes that have heels? nolook like women's shoes? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the problem that by offering a seat there could be a suggestion that the person receiving the offer is of a lower class/status?
Is the solution to offer your seat to everyone? To never give up your seat? To just stand in the first place (assuming you're able)? To make everyone stand in the first place? To eliminate seats on buses/trains?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 2:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the problem that if you offer to give up your seat to a woman wearing heels (or presumably other uncomfortable shoes?), she might think that you think she's old?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 1:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the problem that by offering a seat there could be a suggestion that the person receiving the offer is of a lower class/status? noish
Is the solution to offer your seat to everyone? no To never give up your seat? no To just stand in the first place (assuming you're able)? To make everyone stand in the first place? no To eliminate seats on buses/trains? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 - 2:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the problem that if you offer to give up your seat to a woman wearing heels (or presumably other uncomfortable shoes?), she might think that you think she's old? yesish, but there's more to it than that. After all, a teenager in high heels isn't going to think you think she's old.}
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 4:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm- so the sitter sees a woman wearing high heels standing on the bus. The sitter considers offering the woman the seat but is concerned about offending her. Correct so far?

Perhaps the sitter should offer the woman his/her shoes instead! *giggles*
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you missed my questions - maybe they are no longer relevant in view of subsequent questions?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, August 22, 2011 - 9:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is the problem not knowing whether a woman will be offended if a man offers to give up his seat because she may be an ardent feminist? no

but if she's wearing high heels she won't take offence because she's not that kind of feminist? no. This wouldn't be "paradoxical," as the puzzle statement says.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 4:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Hmm- so the sitter sees a woman wearing high heels standing on the bus. The sitter considers offering the woman the seat but is concerned about offending her. Correct so far? yes

Perhaps the sitter should offer the woman his/her shoes instead! *giggles* Hmmmmmmmmmmm. . .
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is that the solution? To offer your shoes?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 10:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is that the solution? no. It would hardly be practical, since foot sizes vary so much To offer your shoes? See previous answer
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 3:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was being silly. :P
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 4:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I couldn't tell -- but hey, this is a lateral puzzle, it could be anything.

Does the removal of shoes at all figure in the solution?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 4:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I couldn't tell -- but hey, this is a lateral puzzle, it could be anything.

Does the removal of shoes at all figure in the solution? no
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2011 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the solution involve something said to the stander? Something done? Any other relevant people besides the sitter and stander? Any animals in this puzzle?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Does the solution involve something said to the stander? possiblySomething done? yesAny other relevant people besides the sitter and stander? yes Any animals in this puzzle? no, not even a beautiful, plume-tailed orange cat like mine, alas
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other relevant people: 1? 2? 3? 4 or more? Children involved? The driver? Other passengers?
Did the solution involve: the sitter standing? The stander sitting? Moving something within the bus? Removing something from the bus?
How long would this solution take- a few seconds? a few minutes? A half hour or longer?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 7:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Other relevant people: 1? 2? 3? 4 or more? moreChildren involved? irrelThe driver? noOther passengers? yes
Did the solution involve: the sitter standing? yesish The stander sitting? yesish Moving something within the bus? see previous two answers Removing something from the bus? no
How long would this solution take- a few seconds? probably a few minutes? unlikely A half hour or longer? no
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"I couldn't tell -- but hey, this is a lateral puzzle, it could be anything."- Balin

In light of that advice- musical chairs?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 10:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
"I couldn't tell -- but hey, this is a lateral puzzle, it could be anything."- Balin

In light of that advice- musical chairs?no. But you know what? I've always loved that game! I wish adults played it at parties.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the solution involve someone sitting on someone else's lap?

Hey Nimue, you'll have to come to one of my parties!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 11:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
did the solution involve someone sitting on someone else's lap? no

Hey Nimue, you'll have to come to one of my parties! My pleasure--where do you live??
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve: the sitter speaking directly to another passengers? Or to the other passengers in general? Does anyone besides the stander and the sitter move? Or say something relevant? Or do something relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Does it involve: the sitter speaking directly to another passengers? no Or to the other passengers in genera no Does anyone besides the stander and the sitter move? no Or say something relevant? noOr do something relevant? yesish
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this work on a crowded bus? On one that was only partially full? One that was nearly empty? One with a lot of people standing?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 9:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would this work on a crowded bus? yes On one that was only partially full? no One that was nearly empty? no One with a lot of people standing? yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Everyone standing switches with everyone sitting?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 9:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) No, although that might be entertaining to watch1
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 9:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) No, although that might be entertaining to watch!!
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the sitter: stand? Gesture? Pretend to do something? Pretend to have another reason for standing up?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the sitter stand for anyone who wants to sit down?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 12:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the sitter: stand? possibly Gesture? possibly Pretend to do something? no Pretend to have another reason for standing up? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 12:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the sitter stand for anyone who wants to sit down? for anyone who meets a certain condition
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The condition: related to appearance? ability? apparel? gender? age? profession? religion? marital status? health? height? personality trait?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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The condition: related to appearance? yes ability? no apparel? yes gender? yesage? yes profession? noreligion? nomarital status? no health? no height? nopersonality trait?yope
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 04, 2011 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Give up your seat for every old woman?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Balin (Balin)
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Give up your seat for every old woman? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, September 09, 2011 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP: Add the following to the puzzle statement: The etiquette issue involves offering someone your seat on a bus, and high-heeled shoes are relevant.
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 09, 2011 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To clarify, is the stander wearing high heel shoes?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the problem whether or not to offer your seat to an old woman, because they might take offence that you consider them old? And is the solution to say something like "those shoes look uncomfortable, would you like to sit down" so they think you've offered due to the shoes and not their age?

Or is the problem more specifically whether or not to give up your seat to an old person in high heeled shoes?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 1:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the problem that you feel you should be offering your own seat but you're wearing high heels?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 11:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the problem whether or not to offer your seat to an old woman, because they might take offence that you consider them old? yes And is the solution to say something like "those shoes look uncomfortable, would you like to sit down" so they think you've offered due to the shoes and not their age? no

Or is the problem more specifically whether or not to give up your seat to an old person in high heeled shoes? yope
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2011 - 1:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is the problem that you feel you should be offering your own seat but you're wearing high heels? no
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To clarify- the stander is wearing the high heels, correct? The sitter is not, correct? Is the sitter really offering his/her seat because the stander is old? Or because of her shoes?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the solution be for the sitter to wear high heels?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 7:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
To clarify- the stander is wearing the high heels, correct? yope!The sitter is not, correct? irrel Is the sitter really offering his/her seat because the stander is old? yes Or because of her shoes? yope
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the solution be for the sitter to wear high heels? no
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The yopes above- is the stander wearing high heels? "Yopish" high heels? Or "yopishly" wearing them?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 10:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
The yopes above- is the stander wearing high heels?\b}possibly} "Yopish" high heels? no Or "yopishly" wearing them? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this problem present itself regardless of whether the stander is wearing high heels? Only if they are? Only if they aren't?

Could the solution be implemented if the stander is wearing high heels? If they are not wearing them?

Does the solution involve the sitter saying something? Doing something? Does the solution consist of a polite way of asking the stander if they want a seat? Or of giving them a seat without asking them directly? Does it allow the sitter to not give up their seat without feeling bad? If the solution were implemented, would the end result be that the stander was sitting? That the sitter was standing?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2011 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, September 12, 2011 - 11:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would this problem present itself regardless of whether the stander is wearing high heels? yes Only if they are? no Only if they aren't? no

Could the solution be implemented if the stander is wearing high heels? yes If they are not wearing them?yes

Does the solution involve the sitter saying something? yes Doing something? yesDoes the solution consist of a polite way of asking the stander if they want a seat? yesishOr of giving them a seat without asking them directly? no Does it allow the sitter to not give up their seat without feeling bad? irrelIf the solution were implemented, would the end result be that the stander was sitting? possiblyThat the sitter was standing? possibly
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are the last two possiblies simply because we don't know whether the stander would accept the offer?

does the solution involve the sitter offering their seat? with a gesture? words? particular words?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2011 - 12:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
are the last two possiblies simply because we don't know whether the stander would accept the offer? no or noish

does the solution involve the sitter offering their seat?possibly with a gesture? words? particular words? whether the offer would be made with a gesture or words is irrel
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the solution involve doing something before making the offer? Something to detect if the offer will be well received? And then only offering if it will?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 8:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the solution involve doing something before making the offer? yesSomething to detect if the offer will be well received?
yesAnd then only offering if it will? yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the solution allow the sitter to determine whether or not the person is old? Whether they are having difficulty standing? Whether they would be offended by someone implying they were old? Whether or not they think of themselves as old?

Does anybody on the bus have to be wearing high heels for the solution to work?

Could the sitter be male? Female? Any age?

Could the stander be male? Female?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, September 15, 2011 - 10:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the solution allow the sitter to determine whether or not the person is old? no Whether they are having difficulty standing? no Whether they would be offended by someone implying they were old? yes Whether or not they think of themselves as old? yes

Does anybody on the bus have to be wearing high heels for the solution to work? no

Could the sitter be male? yes Female? yes Any age? probably not

Could the stander be male? no Female? yes
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2011 - 4:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the event before the offer:

Something stated? asked? implied? to the stander? to someone else? to everyone else?
Something done? Something moved?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2011 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2011 - 4:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So the event before the offer:

Something stated? noasked?no implied? no to the stander? no to someone else? no to everyone else? no
Something done?yes or maybe yesish Something moved? no
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2011 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something done-
by the sitter? the stander? someone else?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, September 16, 2011 - 9:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Something done-
by the sitter? yes the stander? yesishsomeone else? no
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the interaction initiated by the sitter? the stander? another event?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2011 - 4:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the interaction initiated by the sitter? yes the stander? no another event? noish
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP: Add the following to the puzzle statement: The situation involves a bus with no vacant seats. A man or young woman is sitting, and a middle-aged or old woman is standing near that seated person, who has to decide whether to offer the standing woman his seat. It's relevant whether the standing woman is wearing high heels.
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant when the sitter is planning to disembark?

Does the sitter ask when the stander is planning to disembark?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 9:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it relevant when the sitter is planning to disembark? no

Does the sitter ask when the stander is planning to disembark? no
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 2:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It seems to me that most of the women wearing insanly high heels are young women, teenagers even. Elderly ladies are, wisely, afraid of falling and breaking bones, and the middle-aged (of whom I consider myself one) have too much common sense.
If you can find a question in there, fine. If not, just consider it my rant for today.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 2:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
It seems to me that most of the women wearing insanly high heels are young women, teenagers even. Elderly ladies are, wisely, afraid of falling and breaking bones, and the middle-aged (of whom I consider myself one) have too much common sense.I don't see why it is automatically wiser to choose safety over beauty than vice versa. It's a matter of personal priorities, & to each her own. Also I have never seen any relation between age & common sense. Okay, that's my rant. If you are asking about the age of the standee, she is middle-aged or old.
If you can find a question in there, fine. If not, just consider it my rant for today.
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2011 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so you start the puzzle by saying the problem has a paradoxical solution

am I correct in saying we have identified the problem as 'should I offer my seat to a woman who is standing?' - with the risk of offending that woman by appearing to assume she is old enough to need a seat more than the seated person?

so the paradoxical solution - something that seems to tell the woman you think she is old? or you think she is young? by appearing not to offer a seat? to see if she remonstrates with you? by appearing to offer a seat to someone else? to see if she asks for it herself?

is the answer to take ones own shoes off and say they are hurting to see if she says hers are too?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2011 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2011 - 8:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
so you start the puzzle by saying the problem has a paradoxical solution

am I correct in saying we have identified the problem as 'should I offer my seat to a woman who is standing?' yes - with the risk of offending that woman by appearing to assume she is old enough to need a seat more than the seated person? yhes

so the paradoxical solution - something that seems to tell the woman you think she is old? yope or you think she is young? yope by appearing not to offer a seat? yopeto see if she remonstrates with you? no by appearing to offer a seat to someone else? no to see if she asks for it herself? no

is the answer to take ones own shoes off and say they are hurting to see if she says hers are too? no
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the answer to check out what kind of shoes she's wearing?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we have a sitter on a busy bus, seeing a woman of indeterminate age (though no teenager!), correct? And the sitter is wondering whether to offer their seat to the woman, correct? If the woman is wearing high heels, is the sitter more likely to offer their seat? less likely? Or would the shoes affect the way in which the sitter would make the offer?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 8:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is the answer to check out what kind of shoes she's wearing? yes, but you have to realize the paradoxical nature of how the sitter decides whether to offer the standee a seat
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 804
Registered: 7-2006

Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 12:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So we have a sitter on a busy bus, seeing a woman of indeterminate age (though no teenager!), correct? And the sitter is wondering whether to offer their seat to the woman, correct? between about 35 & 70 If the woman is wearing high heels, is the sitter more likely to offer their seat? noless likely? yes Or would the shoes affect the way in which the sitter would make the offer? no. Now this puzzle is nearly solved. Just figure out why the sitter WON'T offer a seat to a woman who is wearing uncomfortable high heels. Should be easy. . . .
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Username: Kdoc

Post Number: 1232
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the sitter reason that if the woman chooses to wear high heels, and therefore put up with some discomfort, to look good/attractive/young then she probably cares enough about her image to hope that no one will consider her old enough to offer a seat to?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 7284
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member
Username: Kdoc

Post Number: 1232
Registered: 7-2001

Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 9:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
does the sitter reason that if the woman chooses to wear high heels, and therefore put up with some discomfort, to look good/attractive/young then she probably cares enough about her image to hope that no one will consider her old enough to offer a seat to?yes!!

*** SPOILER ************
Clever Hannah triumphs again!! Should you offer your seat on a bus to a middle-aged or old woman? Maybe she needs to sit down, but maybe she doesn't & will be insulted by the offer.In her light-hearted etiquette book, I Try to Behave Myself, Peg Bracken says you should check out her shoes. If she's wearing high heels, she probably still thinks of herself as young & glamorous. If she has "settled for honest arch supports," she probably thinks of herself as in need of comfort. The solution is paradoxical because high heels are much less comfortable to stand in.

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