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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3620
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A guy I know smokes a pack of cigarettes a day but I've noticed recently that he always has 3 or 4 cigarette packs on his person. When I asked him about that he blamed the recession. Why does he carry more cigarettes than he needs?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Post Number: 291
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To provide people who might ask to "borrow" one?
Are they full packs or partial ones?
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he use them as currency?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is he in prison?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 4:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he worry about being able to get more? Would it work if he had the packs lying at home? Does he suffer financially from the recession? Or does he expect to? Relevant? Has he changed his smoking habits?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do any of the packs only have one cigarette in them? So he can get people to pay for his "last cigarette"?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he trying to beat any price increases?
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a smuggler?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he buy them from over the border? Are they cheaper in bulk?
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he give them away to others more needy?

Is his livelihood relevant? Or other activities he engages in?
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the packs unmodified, same as normal packs?
Does he ever use the cigarettes in them?
Does he do this to avoid buying new packs?
Is he happy/relieved about doing it? Is it his choice?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3625
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To provide people who might ask to "borrow" one? No
Are they full packs or partial ones? Well the pack he is using is obviously partially full but the others are unopened
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3626
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jvp

Does he use them as currency? No things aren't that bad in Ireland just yet

Shez

is he in prison? Great lateral thought but no I'm afraid

Galfisk

Does he worry about being able to get more? No Would it work if he had the packs lying at home? Yes Does he suffer financially from the recession? Yes Or does he expect to? Yes Relevant? Yes Has he changed his smoking habits? No
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3627
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Do any of the packs only have one cigarette in them? Well the one he using might have but not relevant So he can get people to pay for his "last cigarette"? No

Lynne

Is he trying to beat any price increases? No

Solitaire

Is he a smuggler? No however this question made me chuckle. As I was raised just yards from the border with Northern Ireland I often get teased about smuggling by my Dublin friends.

Entrpreneurial use of the meandering line that divides our island is not relevant to this puzzle
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3628
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)


Lynne

Does he buy them from over the border? No. Strangely at the moment cigs are more expensive in the north than in the south Are they cheaper in bulk? Not in the "bulk" that he's buying them
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jvp

Does he give them away to others more needy? No

Is his livelihood relevant? Yes Or other activities he engages in? Yesish but not sure i'd describe it as an activity. I'll say yope to that
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3630
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quovynyte

Are the packs unmodified, same as normal packs? They're just normal packs of twenty
Does he ever use the cigarettes in them? Yes he smokes them
Does he do this to avoid buying new packs? no
Is he happy/relieved about doing it? No Is it his choice? he'd describe it as a last resort

Nice to see you back here Quovynyte. Are you still in D6
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he some kind of con artist? a gambler?
Does he use the cigarettes for something other than their intended use? Does he use the closed boxes for anything?
Is his physical appearance relevant?
Any other relevant individuals?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3631
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forgot to say thanks for all the questions. 10 posts is nice surprise. Keep em coming.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he sell any of his cigarettes?
Does he roll his own from the butts? And put them in the same packs?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3632
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he some kind of con artist?No a gambler? He does back the occasional horse but he's Irish so that's no big shock. Gambling not relevant
Does he use the cigarettes for something other than their intended use? No Does he use the closed boxes for anything? No
Is his physical appearance relevant? No
Any other relevant individuals? Yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3633
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he sell any of his cigarettes? No
Does he roll his own from the butts? Lol we used to do this when we were teenagers. Alas no but nice thinking And put them in the same packs? So no to this
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 14936
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he do anything at all with the butts?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 3636
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Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2011 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he do anything at all with the butts? Nothing out of the ordinary
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 1:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the title relevant?

Does he have to change outfits for his work?

Before price rises, would he not have to worry if he "left his cigs in his other jacket" -- he'd just buy a new one. Now he tries to make sure he keeps cigs in every outfit?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is he trying to give up?

is he a magician? a motivational speaker? a doctor?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the title relevant? No I borrowed it from Jaws

Does he have to change outfits for his work? No

Before price rises, would he not have to worry if he "left his cigs in his other jacket" -- he'd just buy a new one. Now he tries to make sure he keeps cigs in every outfit? No and price rises are not relevant

There's an element of false assumption in your questions
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is he trying to give up? No

is he a magician? a motivational speaker? a doctor? no to all
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he carry all the cigarettes in the same pocket?
Have the unopened packs been removed from their plastic covering?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he carry all the cigarettes in the same pocket? No but not relevant
Have the unopened packs been removed from their plastic covering? No but again not relevant
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he intend to smoke all the cigarettes?
Relevant how often he purchases cigarettes?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he intend to smoke all the cigarettes? Yes
Relevant how often he purchases cigarettes? Yes
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a colleague? Is his profession relevant? Is he a fellow banker type bod?

Is he on to some clever financial ruse?
If there was no recession would he just have one packet on him at a time?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a colleague? No Is his profession relevant? Very much so insofar as he no longer has one. He recently lost his job. Is he a fellow banker type bod? Hee hee no.

Note to self: "Amend user profile!"

Is he on to some clever financial ruse? Hard to answer. Wouldn't describe it as a ruse and I suppose some might think it's clever but I'm not so sure. You could say he's up to something but it's a bit of a grey area
If there was no recession would he just have one packet on him at a time? Yes
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where he buys cigarettes?

Is it relevant when he buys cigarettes?

If he leaves home on a Monday with 4 packs on his person, by the end of Monday does he just have 3 pack on his person, having smoked one?

If so, would he leave home Tuesday with just those 3, or would he "top up" to 4 (or whatever his normal maximum is)?

When he is out and about with 4 packs on his person, would he also have some number at home (e.g., the rest of an opened carton)?

Does he carry the packs -- in a jacket? pants? backpack/briefcase? other garment? Besides eventually smoking them, do the 'extra' packs serve an additional purpose so long as he is carrying them (e.g., insulate his ears)?

Are they visible to passersby when he is carrying the packs?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where he buys cigarettes? Yes

Is it relevant when he buys cigarettes? More how often rather than when

If he leaves home on a Monday with 4 packs on his person, by the end of Monday does he just have 3 pack on his person, having smoked one? He may have more it depends

If so, would he leave home Tuesday with just those 3, or would he "top up" to 4 (or whatever his normal maximum is)? He might do. He doesn't follow an exact pattern

When he is out and about with 4 packs on his person, would he also have some number at home (e.g., the rest of an opened carton)? No

Does he carry the packs -- in a jacket? pants? backpack/briefcase? other garment? Irrelevant where he carries them Besides eventually smoking them, do the 'extra' packs serve an additional purpose so long as he is carrying them (e.g., insulate his ears)? What an interesting thought. A no i'm afraid

Are they visible to passersby when he is carrying the packs? Not relevant
Solitiare (Solitiare)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because of the stress he is under, is he thinking he might become a 2-pack-a-day or even a 3-PPD smoker, and wants to have some on hand for this possibility?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he only have a few occasions when he can buy cigarettes so he stocks up when he passes a certain shop (perhaps) and he has thieving family/flatmates/whoever at home and so he takes his stock with him?

Does he spend his unemployment money as soon as he has it, limiting himself to however many packets he deems fit, and then makes a point of sticking to that many without buying more within a certain time limit?

Is his being unemployed the reason the recession is important here? i.e. he lost his job due to cutbacks. Or would this scenario still be the same if he was employed despite there being a recession?
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he buy cigarettes every day? few days? week? few weeks? month? few months? year?
Does he buy multiple packets at once

Does he buy cigarettes in a shop? a newsagents?
Are they normal cigarettes?

Actually D6w now
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is transportation relevant? That is, when he was working the place he bought them was more convenient?

Dole relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solitaire

Because of the stress he is under, is he thinking he might become a 2-pack-a-day or even a 3-PPD smoker, and wants to have some on hand for this possibility? \bNo to this}

Lynne

Does he only have a few occasions when he can buy cigarettes so he stocks up when he passes a certain shop (perhaps) and he has thieving family/flatmates/whoever at home and so he takes his stock with him? No but a certain shop is relevant

Does he spend his unemployment money as soon as he has it, limiting himself to however many packets he deems fit, and then makes a point of sticking to that many without buying more within a certain time limit? Nice thinking but no

Is his being unemployed the reason the recession is important here? Yes i.e. he lost his job due to cutbacks Yes he was recently laid off. Or would this scenario still be the same if he was employed despite there being a recession? No
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Quovynyte

Does he buy cigarettes every day? few days? Every 2/3 days week? few weeks? month? few months? year?
Does he buy multiple packets at once? Yes

Does he buy cigarettes in a shop? Yes a newsagents? Yes
Are they normal cigarettes? Yes

Actually D6w now Ah the all important W

Bodo

Is transportation relevant? no That is, when he was working the place he bought them was more convenient? No

Dole relevant? Somewhat

Nice to see you back round these parts Bodo
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a Post Office within the newsagents? Does he buy his cigarettes at the same time as collecting his dole?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a Post Office within the newsagents? Does he buy his cigarettes at the same time as collecting his dole? Nice thought but no. I suppose the dole is only peripherally relevant
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If he ate a bar of chocolate per day would the same logic dictate that he carries all his chocolate around for the next few days?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where he buys his cigarettes?
The relevant shop -- does he buy anything at the shop? Does he go into the shop? Pass it? Does anyone relevant work there?
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he have a lot of time on his hands due to being out of work? (Relevant?)

Does he buy all these packs (as opposed to getting them as gifts)? Does he pay full price?

Does he get anything else with the purchase of a pack of cigarettes? (Free cuppa, sandwich, etc.)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne

If he ate a bar of chocolate per day would the same logic dictate that he carries all his chocolate around for the next few days? Yes but he would have more chocolate bars on his person that he does cigarette packs

Balin

Is it relevant where he buys his cigarettes? Yes. It's the local newsagents
The relevant shop -- does he buy anything at the shop? No he just buys the cigarettes Does he go into the shop? Yes Pass it? Well he goes in so that's all you need to know Does anyone relevant work there? No but there is something very relevant about the shop itself

Jvp

Does he have a lot of time on his hands due to being out of work? (Relevant?)Well I'm sure he does but not relevant

Does he buy all these packs (as opposed to getting them as gifts)? Yes Does he pay full price? Yes

Does he get anything else with the purchase of a pack of cigarettes? Yes although this could mislead (Free cuppa, sandwich, etc.)? It's not a promotion of any sort

You've all been so active on this I feel It's only fair to give you a hint...

The shop has a very relevant policy
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the policy to due with the age restriction on buying cigarettes? Does he buy for underage friends? Or is he underage and only buys when there is a shop assistant there who doesn't ask for ID?

I can't think of 'policies' that a shop would have. A limit to the number of schoolchildren allowed in at any one time? Only selling local goods? (Unlikely as magazines and newspapers aren't necessarily 'local')
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the shop only open on certain days? Not sure how they'd sell papers on less than 7 days per week, but still....
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant exactly what type of shop it is?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the shop only sell him one cigarette at a time?

or only sell him a pack of cigarettes on proof of coming near the end of a pack?

is he buying some sort of refill pack?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the policy to due with the age restriction on buying cigarettes? No Does he buy for underage friends? No Or is he underage and only buys when there is a shop assistant there who doesn't ask for ID? No he's in his 30s

I can't think of 'policies' that a shop would have. Hmm I'm trying to think of a hint that won't give it away, there are many policies a shop can have though A limit to the number of schoolchildren allowed in at any one time? No but If I owned a shop that would be a policy Only selling local goods? (Unlikely as magazines and newspapers aren't necessarily 'local') No to this
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the shop only open on certain days? No Not sure how they'd sell papers on less than 7 days per week, but still....As with all newsagents it's a 7 day week
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm sure it's a forehead slapper whatever the policy is, but having sold cigarettes and papers for the last eight years, I'm still at a loss!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do they run a tab/slate at the shop?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

Is it relevant exactly what type of shop it is? Just an ordinary newsagent

Shez

does the shop only sell him one cigarette at a time? No but this question did raise a sentimental smile. There used to be a shop in my hometown that sold cigarettes in singles. Great for underage smokers who couldn't afford a pack.


or only sell him a pack of cigarettes on proof of coming near the end of a pack? No

is he buying some sort of refill pack? No

Hint: The policy is of a transactional nature
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you spend a certain amount in one go....

you can use credit (card)?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it to do with the price? method of payment?

does the shop not dish out bags so he has to stuff all the packets in his pockets?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jvp - now that's a forehead slapper, having a minimum spend on a credit card.

I'll just repeat my own question in case it gets missed back there. Does the shop run a tab/slate?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you spend a certain amount in one go....

you can use credit (card)? Well a debit card but Yes that's a key point

is it to do with the price? yes method of payment? Yes see above it concerns Debit Card payments

does the shop not dish out bags so he has to stuff all the packets in his pockets? In Ireland we have a plastic bag tax of 24c per bag. It's been a huge success with a reduction in their use of 90%. No more plastic bags stuck in tree branches. This is a no by the way

Jvp - now that's a forehead slapper, having a minimum spend on a credit card. Indeed kudos to Jvp. There's more to it though than minimum spend. Think other features of a debit card.

I'll just repeat my own question in case it gets missed back there. Does the shop run a tab/slate? They might do but not relevant to this puzzle

Ok just to clarify . The shop has a policy that you must spend a certain amount before you can pay with a debit card and........
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you spend a certain amount in one go....

you can use credit (card)? Well a debit card but Yes that's a key point

is it to do with the price? yes method of payment? Yes see above it concerns Debit Card payments

does the shop not dish out bags so he has to stuff all the packets in his pockets? In Ireland we have a plastic bag tax of 24c per bag. It's been a huge success with a reduction in their use of 90%. No more plastic bags stuck in tree branches. This is a no by the way

Jvp - now that's a forehead slapper, having a minimum spend on a credit card. Indeed kudos to Jvp. There's more to it though than minimum spend. Think other features of a debit card.

I'll just repeat my own question in case it gets missed back there. Does the shop run a tab/slate? They might do but not relevant to this puzzle

Ok just to clarify . The shop has a policy that you must spend a certain amount before you can pay with a debit card and........

In case anyone is unfamiliar with debit cards they are like a credit card except it debits your current/checking account. It also doubles as an ATM card
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he have any other way he can buy the cigarettes? Or has he no choice but to use a debit card? So he has to buy a lot of cigarettes?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there any particular reason why he keeps them all on him rather than leaving some at home? Or just the fact that he has to buy several packs at once?
Does his card offer points? Air miles or something?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he have any other way he can buy the cigarettes? Well there are but none that suit his current predicament Or has he no choice but to use a debit card? This So he has to buy a lot of cigarettes? Well he has to buy more than he needs to be able to use the card in the first place, but ask yourself what else he does with the card?

Is there any particular reason why he keeps them all on him rather than leaving some at home? Don't concern yourself with this point. Lets just concentrate on why he buys more than he needs part of the reason for which is that he can pay by debit card Or just the fact that he has to buy several packs at once? Yes
Does his card offer points? Air miles or something? No nothing so grand
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

that was a very nice no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he use an ATM?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he buy the cigarettes as his indulgence while he has the money in his account, and as a good excuse to delay payments on something the car will demand? i.e. as soon as any money comes in, something drops off the car - have you noticed that?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does he have no cash? so each time he buys cigarettes he asks for cashback?
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jvp - now that's a forehead slapper, having a minimum spend on a credit card. Indeed kudos to Jvp.

Thanks. The answer to the choccies question was key to that bit.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he use an ATM? No and that's key

Does he buy the cigarettes as his indulgence while he has the money in his account, and as a good excuse to delay payments on something the car will demand? No i.e. as soon as any money comes in, something drops off the car - have you noticed that? Yes . Someone scratched my car in a car park last week and cleared off without so much as an apology.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does he have no cash? Yes so each time he buys cigarettes he asks for cashback? Exactly well done Shez

Ok serious progress there. Our hero has no cash and buys more cigarettes than he needs because the shop has a minimum spend of €25 euro before one can use a debit card and ask for cash back. Accordingly he buys 3 or 4 packs of cigarettes at a time

There are a few more details to clear up namely:

Why doesn't he use the ATM instead of the cashback facility?
Why does he have to do this every couple of days?

There's another relevant policy that the newsagents enforces

Next few posts should put this to bed
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Our shop dropped the minimum spend on cards but started charging £1 for cashback. Caused no end of confusion.

The nearest ATM is miles away so it's hard if you have no transport, or begrudge the travel costs to get there if you have no other reason to be in that vicinity. Is that the reason why your man doesn't use the ATM?

Is there a limit on cashback set by his bank? (Apart from the fact that if the money's not there you can't get cashback, of course)

Is the other relevant policy set by the newsagents specifically to do with getting cashback?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Our shop dropped the minimum spend on cards but started charging £1 for cashback. Caused no end of confusion. I can only speak from an Irish perspective but a retailer is not permitted to charge for cashback. He is after all saving money on not having to bank cash which is costly

The nearest ATM is miles away so it's hard if you have no transport, or begrudge the travel costs to get there if you have no other reason to be in that vicinity. Is that the reason why your man doesn't use the ATM? No in fact there is an ATM in the newsagents . The reason is that he simply doesn't have any money in his account

Is there a limit on cashback set by his bank? Well not the bank but the shop itself. (Apart from the fact that if the money's not there you can't get cashback, of course)

Is the other relevant policy set by the newsagents specifically to do with getting cashback? Yes

As the remaining point of note is quite technical I think you've all made sufficient progress on this for me to declare the

****************Spoiler***************


Ok here goes:

Our hero who we will call Rob was recently laid off without a redundancy payment. He is naturally experiencing some challenging financial times. Now Rob is owed a tax rebate of about 5k and when he asked his bank to bridge receipt of this with an appropriate overdraft they, showing loyality to a longstanding customer who was going through a rocky patch, said no.

What his bank failed to realise or so far have failed to realise is that Rob's debit card is an offline card i.e. the system does not check for sufficient funds at each transaction . Between me you and the walls if you have one of these cards the system only checks 1 in 15 transactions for funds so you've a pretty good chance of getting the transaction including cashback authorised even if you have insufficient funds in your account.

As his Bank are forced to honour debit card transactions once authorised , Rob is basically overdrawing his account without permission and while he will pay penalties for this he argues that he needs the cash for bills etc so he'll have to put up with it until his tax refund comes in or he gets another job.

The shop in which he buys his cigs has a min spend of €25 before you can use a card and also has a surprisingly small cashback limit of €50 euro. So Rob is routinely spends €30 or so on Cigarettes every couple of days so that he can access €50 in cash. Given that his cigarette consumption is about €6 a day he is buying considerably more cigarettes than he needs to.

Of course he could ease his financial problems by quiting smoking but I guess he's under a lot of stress at the moment.

As a Banker myself I was embarrassed to hear that a bank wouldn't help a customer when in most need. He produced evidence of the impending tax rebate as well and they still refused him. Banks in my experience love you when things are good and then don't want to know when things get rough. And I say all that from within the system.

Thanks for all the questions and I hope the solution is satisfactory given the great team effort that you all put in.

Thank you Balin, Lynne, Jvp, Quovynyte, Shez, Bodo, Solitaire and the person that I inevitably missed.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's interesting. I was told by my boss that although there was a limit to cashback due to having to have the cash available to pay out, it did save them the charges of having to bank the money. The Paypoint machine through which we did this had an upper limit of £50 anyway, but I once did it twice on the same card for one customer, on the grounds that it saved the shop money and also that if the money wasn't there, the card wouldn't be authorised (all cards seem to be checked as many transactions were declined, especially the seasonal workers who always lived close to the limit). I still got told that I shouldn't have done that.... Still, that's all behind me as I retired (early retirement I hasten to add!) last week.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Congrats on your retirement. Only another 22 years to go for me.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 23, 2011 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The grocery store I worked in over the summer had a cashback limit of $50. I think that's the norm over here, but I'm not sure.
Jvp (Jvp)
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Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2011 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting story and well-crafted into a puzzle.

Does this shop sell nothing else he needs, besides cigarettes?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 7:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would cárta creidmheasa help? D-)

Oh. Darn it! I'm too late, aren't I?

Or, as my Paddy would say, "Amn't I?")
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The shop is a relatively small newsagents but the only one in his village. He'd have to buy a lot of chocolate bars to spend €25.

Would cárta creidmheasa help? D-) Maith an cailin.

Oh. Darn it! I'm too late, aren't I? Ar an drochuir. You can't beat "cupla focail as Gaeilge" on a Monday morning

Or, as my Paddy would say, "Amn't I?") Where is your Paddy from because i say "Amn't" all the time to much hilarity from my wife and children.

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