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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 8:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Two cars are involved in a minor collision which causes no injuries. Police soon arrive and discover that they will also need an ambulance. When the ambulance does arrive, it leaves with a dead person inside. What happened?

I have the feeling this won't take too long...
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

o_o...*is already confuseded kitteh...*

Did the ambulance already have a dead person inside?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the ambulance already have a dead person inside?
Ah, nice thinking...but no. The safe assumption is that, besides medical personnel/EMTs, the ambulance was empty when it arrived.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a pregnant woman in one of the cars? Whose contractions start after the accident?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a pregnant woman in one of the cars? Whose contractions start after the accident?
Yet another good idea, but no pregnant women are involved.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two cars the only vehicules involved in the collision?

Are there [LTPF list of integers] people in the first car? in the second car? Any relevant animals?

Is the dead person on of the people who were in the cars? A police officer? Did the person die before the accident? After the accident but before the police arrive? After the police arrive? After the ambulance arrives?

Relevant who called the police?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two cars the only vehicles involved in the collision? Yes

Are there [LTPF list of integers] people in the first car? in the second car? Good q - one car had 2 people in it, the other car had only the driver in it

Any relevant animals? Well there was a squirrel nearby, but he's not relevant

Is the dead person one of the people who were in the cars? Yes A police officer? No
Did the person die before the accident? No, good q
After the accident but before the police arrive? Exactly!
After the police arrive? No After the ambulance arrives? No

Relevant who called the police? No
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the exact nature of the collision relevant? A rear-end collision?

The driver of car one - H/A/M? the one who died?
The second person in car one - H/A/M? the one who died?
The driver of car two - H/A/M? the one who died?

Long shot: One of people got so mad that he got his gun out of the glove department and shot one of the other guys?
Or, in a more general way, any weapons relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

true story? FYOI? FSEI? is it relevant in what country this took place? I'm assuming either 20th or 21st century, lol.
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the now-dead guy murdered?
Did he die of natural causes?
Was he already dying when he got there?
Did he die of a disease or allergy?
Did he have a weak heart?
Did he die because of injuries of some sort?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If he was murdered did his killer try and make his death look like it was caused by the collision?

Did anyone gain financially from the guy's death?

Did the police treat the death as suspicious? Was his body found inside the car? or on the road?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the exact nature of the collision relevant? Somewhat A rear-end collision? Yes

The driver of car one - H/A/M? the one who died? Well yes, if we define "Car 1" as the car that was rear-ended. The driver of this car was HAM and is the one who died.
The second person in car one - H/A/M? the one who died? Second person is HAF and she did not die.
The driver of car two - H/A/M? the one who died?
"Car 2" rear-ended Car 1, and the driver of this car is HAM and did not die.
Long shot: One of people got so mad that he got his gun out of the glove department and shot one of the other guys? No...but, to some degree this is the right line of thinking
Or, in a more general way, any weapons relevant? No
true story? I've never heard of this actually happening, but...FYOI? ...it's a little of this, with...FSEI? ...mostly this. The idea has been described and portrayed in TV, movies and elsewhere.
Is it relevant in what country this took place? No, just any country in which people can operate cars
I'm assuming either 20th or 21st century, lol.
Yes, either of these

Was the now-dead guy murdered? No
Did he die of natural causes? No
Was he already dying when he got there? Hmmmm...better see the following answers
Did he die of a disease or allergy? No
Did he have a weak heart? Yes
Did he die because of injuries of some sort?No

If he was murdered did his killer try and make his death look like it was caused by the collision? No, but good thinking

Did anyone gain financially from the guy's death?
Well probably the passenger of the car he was driving, but this wasn't in any way motive or in any direct way connected with his death

Did the police treat the death as suspicious? No, they didn't have to
Was his body found inside the car? No
or on the road? This, yes
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were both cars still there when the police arrived? Or just one? Or none?

Did the driver Get out of his car to yell at the other one?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were both cars still there when the police arrived? Or just one? Or none? Yes, both were still there

Did the driver Get out of his car Yes...
to yell at the other one? ...but not to do this.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Car 1 have airbags? If so, did they go off? And the impact stopped his heart?
If not, did he hit his chest against the steering wheel? And the impact stopped his heart?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Car 1 have airbags? Not relevant
If so, did they go off? And the impact stopped his heart? No, the impact wouldn't have been sufficient to set off airbags
If not, did he hit his chest against the steering wheel? No, not sufficient impact for this either
And the impact stopped his heart? No
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the sight of the person getting out of car 2 what caused Car 1 driver to have a heart attack?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the sight of the person getting out of car 2 what caused Car 1 driver to have a heart attack?
No
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 4:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the dead guy die of heart failure, period? (I know we said he had a weak heart, but that doesn't mean it killed him...)
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the reason driver #1 got out of his car relevant?

to exchange insurance details? to check on the other person? to remove something from the road? to help someone else?

did he get out to remove a fallen tree trunk and his heart gave out because of the effort?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the man discover something unexpected after the accident? Did something happen that was bad for his heart (apart from the accident itself)?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the dead guy die of heart failure, period? (I know we said he had a weak heart, but that doesn't mean it killed him...) Yes, that's what killed him

is the reason driver #1 got out of his car relevant? Yes

to exchange insurance details? Possibly, this, but certainly...to check on the other person? ...this
to remove something from the road? No
to help someone else? Potentially, yes

did he get out to remove a fallen tree trunk and his heart gave out because of the effort? No

Did the man discover something unexpected after the accident? Yes
Did something happen that was bad for his heart (apart from the accident itself)? Yes
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he think the other person was dead or badly injured? Or in some other way think he had discovered something that wasn't actually true?

Long shot: had the other person been holding a jar of jam or something similar, and seemed to be covered in blood?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he think the other person was dead or badly injured? Yes
Or in some other way think he had discovered something that wasn't actually true? Well yes, and your previous question refers to the discovery

Long shot: had the other person been holding a jar of jam or something similar, and seemed to be covered in blood? Ah, good thinking, but no (you've just given me an idea for another puzzle...thanks!)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

These people need names to prevent confusion: how about Morty for Man #1 (the dead guy -- couldn't resist the pun), Lindsey for the woman, and Karl for the second guy?

Was Karl injured by the accident? Was Lindsey? Was Morty?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so Morty is the dead guy, Lindsey is the woman who was in the car with Morty, and Karl is the driver of the car that rear-ended Morty's car

Was Karl injured by the accident? Was Lindsey? Was Morty? No, there were no injuries
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Karl dressed up for Halloween?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

...as the Grim Reaper?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Karl dressed up for Halloween? No...
...as the Grim Reaper? ...so no.
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Morty thought Karl was injured? Dead? Undead?

Did Morty and Karl know each other? Did Morty think he knew Karl?

Is there anything unusual about Karl's appearance?

Karl's not a zombie, right?

Did Karl resemble anyone famous?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Morty thought Karl was injured? Yes, perhaps even...Dead? ...yes.
Undead? No, not this

Did Morty and Karl know each other? No
Did Morty think he knew Karl? No

Is there anything unusual about Karl's appearance?
Hmm...in light of the nature of the accident, Morty would say that Karl's appearance is unusual, yes
Karl's not a zombie, right? Right (he's not)

Did Karl resemble anyone famous? No, Karl only resembled Karl
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does Karl remind Morty of someone? his dead brother? father?

did Morty recognise Karl?

did Karl have an unusual appearance? a scar? a birthmark? was he very very pale?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does Karl remind Morty of someone? his dead brother? father? No - Morty has never met Karl before and he doesn't look familiar

did Morty recognise Karl? No

did Karl have an unusual appearance? Well based on the type of accident that happened, yes, Morty thinks there is something unusual about the way Karl looks
a scar? a birthmark? was he very very pale? None of these
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Karl a child? is he blind?

is there some reason why Morty would not expect Karl to be driving a car?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Karl a child? is he blind? No to both

Is there some reason why Morty would not expect Karl to be driving a car? No
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...had a thought, but don't want to spoyle a puzzle before its time...but a little confirmation doesn't hurt.

So Karl appeared to be badly injured? In a way not consistent with the severity of the accident?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Karl appeared to be badly injured? Yes
In a way not consistent with the severity of the accident? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2011 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Karl have a previous disability? A deformity? A missing limb?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2011 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Karl have a previous disability? A deformity? A missing limb? No, Karl looks like the average person
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2011 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the type of car Karl is driving relevant? His outfit? His gender? Age? His haircut? Any make-up relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2011 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the type of car Karl is driving relevant? No
His outfit? No
His gender? No
Age? Well, this may help in figuring out the unexpected thing that Morty saw
His haircut? No
Any make-up relevant? No
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2011 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Carl younger than 20?
20s? 30s? 40s? 50s? 60s? 70s? 80 or older?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2011 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Carl younger than 20 - 20s? Somewhere in this range, yes, specific age isn't important
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2011 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Karl suffer from any medical condition? epilepsy? narcolepsy?

was he one of those blue people we had a puzzle about earlier this year?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, October 28, 2011 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Karl suffer from any medical condition? epilepsy? narcolepsy?

was he one of those blue people we had a puzzle about earlier this year?

None of these. You can safely assume that aside from Morty's weak heart, all 3 people in the puzzle were of the same health status leading up to and at the time of the accident. In other words, leading up to and at the time of the accident, there was nothing unusual or out of the ordinary about the way Karl looked.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2011 - 12:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the "unexpected thing that Morty saw" an object? or a physical feature of Karl?

Did the glove department drop open? and something relevant fell out of it?

Is it relevant that Karl is male? That Lindsey is female? Is anything else relevant about Lindsey?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2011 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Karl's jewelry relevant?
Did something besides Karl's appearance make Morty think he was dead?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2011 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Karl have tattoos?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Saturday, October 29, 2011 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had something happened to Morty's eyesight? Were his glasses smashed in the crash? Something else that made him think he percieved something that wasn't there?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Karl actually driving the other car? did Morty just assume he had been?

was Karl's car left-hand drive?
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Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Mortys job relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the "unexpected thing that Morty saw" an object? No or a physical feature of Karl? Well it's this in a way, but nothing that Karl is wearing, or hairstyle, or tattoos or anything like that

Did the glove department drop open? and something relevant fell out of it? No, not relevant

Is it relevant that Karl is male? Not really, although the scenario is more likely to occur with a male than a female
That Lindsey is female? No
Is anything else relevant about Lindsey? There is one thing relevant about Lindsey and Morty that has yet to be discovered

Karl's jewelry relevant? No
Did something besides Karl's appearance make Morty think he was dead? No

Did Karl have tattoos? Not relevant

Had something happened to Morty's eyesight? No Were his glasses smashed in the crash? No, not enough impact for this
Something else that made him think he percieved something that wasn't there? Morty clearly saw something but it wasn't what he first perceived

was Karl actually driving the other car? Yes
did Morty just assume he had been? No, Karl had been driving

was Karl's car left-hand drive? No (but that wouldn't make a difference)

Is Mortys job relevant? No
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, October 31, 2011 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Lindsey and Morty related? If so: By blood? In a relationship (dating, married, perhaps roommates?) Is Karl related to either of them that way?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 2:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Crime relevant?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Lindsey and Morty's age relevant? Their relation? Their relation to Karl? Their professions? Where they are coming from at the moment? Or where they are driving to? Anything physical about them relevant? Mental? Any part of their lives we should know of?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Lindsey and Morty related? If so: By blood? In a relationship (dating, married, perhaps roommates?) Lindsey and Morty are married
Is Karl related to either of them that way? No
Crime relevant? No
Is Lindsey and Morty's age relevant? It would help with some aspects of the puzzle
Their relation? Not really
Their relation to Karl? No, they don't know Karl
Their professions? No
Where they are coming from at the moment? Or where they are driving to? Neither
Anything physical about them relevant? Morty's weak heart is relevant, but not really anything else Mental? No
Any part of their lives we should know of? No
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, Lindsey and Morty's age: 20s? 30s? 40s? 50s? 60s? 70s? older?

Was it something about Morty's angle that made him think the thing he saw was something it wasn't?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, Lindsey and Morty's age: 20s? 30s? 40s? 50s? 60s? Keep going... 70s - older? ...yes, somewhere in this range.

Was it something about Morty's angle that made him think the thing he saw was something it wasn't? Well the angle didn't have anything to do with it, Morty had a clear view to what he saw. You are right in saying that Morty saw something that wasn't the way he thought it was.
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it Karls actions that caused Morty to think something was amiss?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it Karls actions that caused Morty to think something was amiss? Yes...(good q)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2011 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Karl's age relevant? Is his age [LTPF list of age ranges]?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Karl's age relevant? Somewhat helpful in figuring out the solutions
Is his age [LTPF list of age ranges]? Karl is a male in his teens or maybe early 20's. Morty and Lindsey are an elderly married couple.
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, did Karl do something that meant one thing to him, but would have a different significance to a man as old as Morty?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, did Karl do something that meant one thing to him, but would have a different significance to a man as old as Morty? Good question, and somewhat hard to answer but I'll say this: Karl's actions meant the same thing to Morty as they would have meant to someone younger, but the effect of Karl's actions probably would have differed among people in various ranges of age
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So let me get this straight: Karl did something that made Morty think he was badly injured or even dead, and the effect this action had on Morty was a partial consequence of Morty's old age?

Would a younger person, then, also likely have thought that Karl was injured/dead? Or would a younger person have been likely to understand that Karl was alive and well?

I'm assuming we aren't just talking about the fact that being old would make it more likely to have a weak heart?

BTW, have we discovered the relevant thing about Lindsey and Morty yet? Is it the fact that they are married? That they are old? Would the puzzle still work if you removed Lindsey from it?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So let me get this straight: I'll help if I can
Karl did something that made Morty think he was badly injured or even dead Exactly!
and the effect this action had on Morty was a partial consequence of Morty's old age? Yes, and affected Morty to the extent that he died due to having a weak heart

Would a younger person, then, also likely have thought that Karl was injured/dead? Good q - most people who saw Karl after the accident would have thought he was either badly injured or dead because of what Karl did. However, people closer to Morty's age would be more apt to respond in a certain way and react the way Morty did

Or would a younger person have been likely to understand that Karl was alive and well? Good q - perhaps if Karl had rear-ended another male in his teens-20's, that other male would have known that Karl wasn't injured or dead, no matter how Karl appeared. This would especially be the case if the person that Karl hit had the same kind of personality as Karl did (that's a hint)

I'm assuming we aren't just talking about the fact that being old would make it more likely to have a weak heart? Well no, but what resulted from Karl's actions would probably not have led to the death of someone younger with a relatively strong heart - Morty's weak heart and another aspect about Morty are both factors here

BTW, have we discovered the relevant thing about Lindsey and Morty yet? Yes...Is it the fact that they are married? That they are old? ...it's actually both of these, but...Would the puzzle still work if you removed Lindsey from it?...yes, it would. Lindsey appears in the puzzle to help establish the events that led up to what's described in the puzzle statement.
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure whether we've asked this already, but is Morty's profession or the kind of car Morty is driving relevant in any way? Is the place the accident took place relevant? Is the place Morty and Lindsey drove from relevant? The place they were headed to?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure whether we've asked this already, but is Morty's profession or the kind of car Morty is driving relevant in any way? None of this is relevant
Is the place the accident took place relevant? There is one aspect about it that is relevant, yes
Is the place Morty and Lindsey drove from relevant? The place they were headed to? No, neither of these are relevant

We're actually really close to the solution. The basics are this: Karl rear-ended Morty's car, but the collision was so minor that it couldn't possibly have caused any injuries. Yet when Morty got out of his car and saw Karl, he thought Karl was either badly injured or dead. Then something happened which caused Morty (who had a weak heart) to die. The kinds of cars don't matter, and it doesn't matter where either car was coming from or going to. The fact that Karl is a male in his teens or early 20's and Morty is an old man are relevant in the situation.
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that happened after Morty thought Karl was injured or dead something Morty did? Did he try to help Karl? Was he trying to preform CPR? Open Karl's car door? Communicate with Karl in some way?

Or was it something else that Karl did? Did he believe Karl to be injured/dead, and then Karl did something he couldn't possibly have done if he had been injured/dead?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that happened after Morty thought Karl was injured or dead something Morty did? No, something Karl did
Did he try to help Karl? No
Was he trying to preform CPR? No
Open Karl's car door? Yes, he did this...Communicate with Karl in some way?...and this too.

Or was it something else that Karl did? Yes (see below)
Did he believe Karl to be injured/dead, and then Karl did something he couldn't possibly have done if he had been injured/dead? Yes!
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 4:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Karl know he appeared to be injured/ dead? Was he faking on purpose?

The thing he did-
-he talked?
-he moved?
-something involuntary (like a sneeze)?
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 6:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Karl deliberately pretend to be dead? Like a sort of practical joke? And then go "boo!" or something?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Karl know he appeared to be injured/ dead? Was he faking on purpose? YES

The thing he did-
-he talked? Sort of...
-he moved? This too...
-something involuntary (like a sneeze)? No, it was quite voluntary

Did Karl deliberately pretend to be dead? Like a sort of practical joke? And then go "boo!" or something? This is EXACTLY what he did!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*** SPOILER ***

Morty and Lindsey were driving somewhat slowly, and impatient Karl was on the road behind them. Karl was driving very close to Morty's car, and when Morty stopped at an intersection Karl slightly bumped Morty's car. Morty got out of his car to see what had happened and saw that Karl appeared badly hurt, maybe dead - Karl's head was slumped to the side, eyes half open, mouth slightly open (of course, he was faking). When Morty approached Karl's car and saw that Karl wasn't moving, he opened the door to investigate. When he did so, Karl screamed "Boo!", intending to make a joke. Sadly, this was no joke for Morty, whose heart could not take the scare and he died.


Nice job by all!
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Poor Morty... But a very good puzzle! It's amazing how one can keep overcomplicating things.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2011 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well that's the fun thing about these puzzles, it's often the simplest solutions that take the longest to reach. Much of that is due to the highly trained minds (not mine) of the people that participate here.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Friday, November 04, 2011 - 12:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very nice puzzle (:

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