| Author | Message | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 942 Registered: 6-2003 |
This is a history puzzle -- the task is to identify a historical event, or a historical person, or some fact about a historical event or historical person, or something the like, starting from the clue below. Just an idea, perhaps you like it, perhaps not. Country beats city. Proceed. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 16357 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is this a battle? Is a game relevant? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 5306 Registered: 9-2010 |
hello Sundowner. nice to see new old names that I only know from the archives =) City = a city within the country referenced? Country = a political entity? or more generally "out in the country"? "The Town Mouse and the Country Mouse" relevant? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 943 Registered: 6-2003 |
Balin Is this a battle? No. Is a game relevant? No. Kayleetonkslupin City = a city within the country referenced? No. Country = a political entity? This one. or more generally "out in the country"? "The Town Mouse and the Country Mouse" relevant? No. | ||
| Amu (Amu)
New member Username: Amu Post Number: 127 Registered: 2-2010 |
A city that is also a country (like San Marino)? Or city=with the same name as the empire, e.g. Rome? Or a city state like Athens? Sparta? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 944 Registered: 6-2003 |
Amu A city that is also a country (like San Marino)? Not in our days any more. But, as the past is concerned, the truth was not always that simple. Or city=with the same name as the empire, e.g. Rome? No, nothing like that. Or a city state like Athens? Sparta? As for the time in which this puzzle is set, one might regard the city a city state in the true sense of the word. On the other hand, the citizens perhaps never regarded themselves this way. | ||
| Redwine (Redwine)
New member Username: Redwine Post Number: 1408 Registered: 1-2011 |
Is unification of the country relevant? Is the city an italian city-republic? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 946 Registered: 6-2003 |
Redwine Is unification of the country relevant? No. Is the city an italian city-republic? No, not Italian. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1916 Registered: 9-2009 |
Greece relevant? Mesopotamia? | ||
| Solitiare (Solitiare)
New member Username: Solitiare Post Number: 689 Registered: 7-2011 |
Since it's historical, can we narrow the time-frame down a little? BC? AD? LTPF list of centuries? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 948 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rbruma Greece relevant? No. Mesopotamia? Neither. Solitaire Since it's historical, can we narrow the time-frame down a little? Yes, I think this could be of some help. BC? No. AD? Yes. LTPF list of centuries? Last decade of the 19th. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 5308 Registered: 9-2010 |
So 1890's then. Is the country a European one? Asian? North American? South American? African? Australia or some other part of Oceania? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 5309 Registered: 9-2010 |
Oh, and is Queen Victoria relevant at all? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 949 Registered: 6-2003 |
Kayleetonkslupin So 1890's then. Yes. Is the country a European one? Yes. Asian? North American? South American? African? Australia or some other part of Oceania? Oh, and is Queen Victoria relevant at all? Not in this puzzle. | ||
| Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
New member Username: Feenwelt Post Number: 159 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is it a sport of some sorts? Does "the country" surround "the city"? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 951 Registered: 6-2003 |
Feenwelt Is it a sport of some sorts? No sports involved this time. Does "the country" surround "the city"? No, it does not even come close to the city. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 5310 Registered: 9-2010 |
But is Great Britain relevant? Ireland? Norway? Sweden? Finland? Denmark? (Iceland? Greenland?) Netherlands? Germany? France? Russia? Spain? Portugal? Switzerland? Italy? Austria-Hungary? Montenegro? Belgrade? Romania? Bulgaria? Greece? Turkish Empire? Anything else? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 955 Registered: 6-2003 |
Kaylee But is Great Britain relevant? Ireland? Norway? Sweden? Finland? Denmark? (Iceland? Greenland?) Netherlands? Germany? France? Russia? Spain? Portugal? Switzerland? Italy? Austria-Hungary? Montenegro? Belgrade? Romania? Bulgaria? Greece? Turkish Empire? Germany is relevant as the country to which the involved people have a close relationship. But it is not the country mentioned in the initial statement. The rest is not relevant. Anything else? Yes, one country and one city are relevant, in a very lateral way. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 5311 Registered: 9-2010 |
I meant, if I missed any countries out on the List of European Countries That Existed in 1890, which ones. =P | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 956 Registered: 6-2003 |
Kaylee again I meant, if I missed any countries out on the List of European Countries That Existed in 1890, which ones. From the LPTF List of European Countries That Existed in 1890 and the LPTF List of European Countries That Exist Today it is Luxembourg. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 5313 Registered: 9-2010 |
Stupid map, it fails. *sigh* Thank you, Sundowner, for the clarification. So, is the city of Luxembourg (the capital) the relevant city? If not that, Esch-sur-Alzette, Dudelange, or Differdange? Is its history particularly relevant? German occupation? treaties? it was in personal union with the Netherlands prior to 1890 and the death of William III. Is this relevant? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 958 Registered: 6-2003 |
Kaylee So, is the city of Luxembourg (the capital) the relevant city? No. If not that, Esch-sur-Alzette, Dudelange, or Differdange? No city in Luxembourg is particularly relevant here. As you found out before, the city in question is not located in the referenced country. Is its history particularly relevant? No. German occupation? No, this was in WWI. treaties? No. it was in personal union with the Netherlands prior to 1890 and the death of William III. Is this relevant? No. Nothing about Luxembourg is particularly relevant, just the country. (if that is of any help) : ) | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1919 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is Luxembourg the country referenced in the puzzle statement? Is the city referenced in the same in another European country? Are there more countries or more cities relevant? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 959 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rbruma Is Luxembourg the country referenced in the puzzle statement? Yes. Is the city referenced in the same in another European country? Yes. Are there more countries or more cities relevant? No. | ||
| Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
New member Username: Feenwelt Post Number: 164 Registered: 6-2003 |
So, we are looking for a town, which was "beaten" by Luxembourg, right? And that one is a German town? The term "beaten" refers to be beaten in ... - a battle? - a bet? If not: is it meant rather metaphorically? Did the people of Lux. in general "beat" the town? Some of them? One of them? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1923 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is the "beating" a play on words? (Like having more letters in the name or the like) | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 960 Registered: 6-2003 |
Feenwelt So, we are looking for a town, which was "beaten" by Luxembourg, right? Yes. And that one is a German town? Yes. The term "beaten" refers to be beaten in ... - a battle? No. - a bet? No. If not: is it meant rather metaphorically? Yope. "Beat" is meant in the usual sense, but the context still has to be discovered. Did the people of Lux. in general "beat" the town? No. Some of them? One of them? No people of Luxembourg are relevant, just the country as such. And then, maybe not even the country as such. Keep in mind that this is, despite being a history puzzle, also a lateral puzzle. Rbruma Is the "beating" a play on words? Hard to answer. As this is a lateral puzzle it is always a good idea to read the puzzle statement not only in its literal meaning. But apart from that, "beat" is used in the usual sense of "win", "be better", "be preferred". (Like having more letters in the name or the like) This is actually not too far from the right forest. But keep in mind that this is, despite being a lateral puzzle, also a history puzzle. It's not only about words, but also about events and people. | ||
| Redwine (Redwine)
New member Username: Redwine Post Number: 1419 Registered: 1-2011 |
Are trade relations between Luxembourg and the city relevant? Are Guinness records relevant? Did the city and Luxembourg take part in an international contest? Compete for organisation of a sport event? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 961 Registered: 6-2003 |
Redwine Are trade relations between Luxembourg and the city relevant? Are Guinness records relevant? Did the city and Luxembourg take part in an international contest? Compete for organisation of a sport event? No to all. (sorry..) | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1931 Registered: 9-2009 |
Wild shot in the dark: Is the city of Hamburg relevant? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 962 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rbruma Wild shot in the dark: Is the city of Hamburg relevant? No, but the shot missed the target by less than 100 miles. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 2773 Registered: 2-2011 |
beat in a competition? beat as in being the preferred place to go to for something? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 963 Registered: 6-2003 |
Shez beat in a competition? No. beat as in being the preferred place to go to for something? No, the geographical location itself is not relevant. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1934 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is the city still standing today, under the name it had at the time? In 1890's, did the country 'beat' the city in a 'contest' that started earlier than that decade? Or rather the 'contest' started at that point and was 'won' later? Is it relevant that Luxembourg is a small country? Could it as well worked with a larger neighbor of Germany (like France)? Is the knowledge of German necessary for the solving of this puzzle? Are we seeking for a particular person relevant to the puzzle? Are there more people relevant? Was the 'contest' considered won by the country by an authority, in an official document? Is religion relevant? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1935 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is the title relevant? Is the city of Lübeck the one to search for? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 964 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rbruma Is the city still standing today, under the name it had at the time? Yes. In 1890's, did the country 'beat' the city in a 'contest' that started earlier than that decade? Or rather the 'contest' started at that point and was 'won' later? I would not call it a contest, but the event took place completely in the decade 1890 - 1899, or rather, completely within 1898. Is it relevant that Luxembourg is a small country? No geographical features of Luxembourg are relevant. Could it as well worked with a larger neighbor of Germany (like France)? No, it can work only with Luxembourg. Is the knowledge of German necessary for the solving of this puzzle? No, perhaps with a tiny -ish. Are we seeking for a particular person relevant to the puzzle? Yes. Are there more people relevant? Yes. Was the 'contest' considered won by the country by an authority, in an official document? Apart from that it was not a contest, the event was certainly recorded in an offical document. Is religion relevant? Not especially. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1937 Registered: 9-2009 |
Can you please answer the other two questions, namely: Is the title relevant? Is the city of Lübeck the one to search for? | ||
| Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
New member Username: Feenwelt Post Number: 169 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hmmm, wild shot: Does a certain colour have anything to do with it? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 966 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rbruma Can you please answer the other two questions, namely: Yes, of course, with apologies. Is the title relevant? Yes, if you google for the whole phrase it will point you instantly to the city. Is the city of Lübeck the one to search for? And it did. : ) Yes, it's Lübeck. Feenwelt Hmmm, wild shot: Does a certain colour have anything to do with it? Hard to answer. I think a color could be relevant, but only in the same lateral way as the city and the country. And only in German. (and while I'm afraid that this doesn't make much sense for all the non-Germans around here, I hope for Feenwelt it does.) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 16381 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did it "win" an honor? Its own survival? (Sorry for not asking as often) | ||
| Redwine (Redwine)
New member Username: Redwine Post Number: 1422 Registered: 1-2011 |
Did Luxembourg sue Lubeck? Or the other way round? Are the symbols of the country/the city relevant? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 968 Registered: 6-2003 |
Balin Did it "win" an honor? No (or only very indirectly) Its own survival? Neither. (Sorry for not asking as often) No need to apologize. You're welcome. : ) Redwine Did Luxembourg sue Lubeck? No. Or the other way round? Neither. Are the symbols of the country/the city relevant? No, or only for a very vague interpretation of "symbol". | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1940 Registered: 9-2009 |
The referenced historical event: did it take place in Luxembourg? In Lubeck? In both? In some other place? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 969 Registered: 6-2003 |
Rbruma The referenced historical event: did it take place in Luxembourg? In Lübeck? In both? In some other place? The event took place in Berlin. But "historical event" is perhaps a big term, it was rather an event involving a famous person. | ||
| Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
New member Username: Feenwelt Post Number: 170 Registered: 6-2003 |
hey Jens, I wrote an e-mail, but it could not be delivered. Is your address in the profile still OK? OK, then in public: I thought of Rosa Luxemburg. While "Rosa" is an old name, it is also the German translation of "pink". And her surname is the German spelling of Luxembourg. Yes, very lateral. I have no idea, where that would lead me to. But in the meantime, we habe established that Lübeck is the town in question, which to my knowledge has really nothing to do with this politician. | ||
| Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
New member Username: Feenwelt Post Number: 171 Registered: 6-2003 |
argh, I did not see the last answer, where Berlin comes into play. OK, is Rosa Luxemburg the historical person in question? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1947 Registered: 9-2009 |
Feenwelt, I think you nailed it, given Rosa's husband's name. Let's see | ||
| Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
New member Username: Feenwelt Post Number: 172 Registered: 6-2003 |
Oh, yes, I did not know that she was married at all. Uh, well, did she beat her husband? :-) | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 970 Registered: 6-2003 |
Feenwelt hey Jens, I wrote an e-mail, but it could not be delivered. Is your address in the profile still OK? No, it is not, but for some reason I can't update my profile. You may try jens . weber at ilmg . com instead. OK, then in public: I thought of Rosa Luxemburg. While "Rosa" is an old name, it is also the German translation of "pink". And her surname is the German spelling of Luxembourg. Yes, very lateral. I have no idea, where that would lead me to. But in the meantime, we habe established that Lübeck is the town in question, which to my knowledge has really nothing to do with this politician. This is exactly the degree of lateralness required, see below. argh, I did not see the last answer, where Berlin comes into play. OK, is Rosa Luxemburg the historical person in question? Yes. Rbruma Feenwelt, I think you nailed it, given Rosa's husband's name. Let's see. Sure, he did. Feenwelt again Oh, yes, I did not know that she was married at all. Uh, well, did she beat her husband? Not in a physical sense, this is something we've established already. Rather, a decision was made that expressed some preference of the country over the city. Actually, should be easy now what kind of decision it was. | ||
| Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
New member Username: Feenwelt Post Number: 177 Registered: 6-2003 |
I don't know much about the couple, just looked up her husband's name, so... Did she want to marry him, but he did not? Was he a politician, too, and got less votes? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 1957 Registered: 9-2009 |
The fact that by their marriage she gained German citizenship - relevant? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 974 Registered: 6-2003 |
Feenwelt Did she want to marry him, but he did not? This is not recorded; in any case they married, and that's all what is relevant. Was he a politician, too, and got less votes? No, for all what is known he earned for a living as a locksmith and stayed clear of any politics and other fishy things. Rbruma The fact that by their marriage she gained German citizenship - relevant? Evil-minded people would say that this was her main intention for marrying. But for the purpose of this puzzle only the fact that she married is relevant, or, rather, what she did after marrying. | ||
| Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
New member Username: Feenwelt Post Number: 179 Registered: 6-2003 |
Did she leave him? Get divorced? Loved another man? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 991 Registered: 6-2003 |
Feenwelt Did she leave him? No. Get divorced? No. Loved another man? This could have been, but if, it is not relevant here. RECAP The puzzle statement has reduced "Luxemburg beats Lübeck", and we know that it refers to Rosa Luxemburg who married Gustav Lübeck. After marriage, Rosa Luxemburg made a decision in which she preferred Luxemburg over Lübeck. Should be pretty easy now what decision she made. | ||
| Kyeannpepper (Kyeannpepper)
New member Username: Kyeannpepper Post Number: 138 Registered: 1-2012 |
*swoops* The decision to keep her maiden name? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 995 Registered: 6-2003 |
Kyeannpepper *swoops* The decision to keep her maiden name? Sure. And no worry, snapping up what others have overlooked is completely legal here .. : ) SPOILER Country beats city. In 1898 German politician and women's rights activist Rosa Luxemburg married Gustav Lübeck. After marriage she decided to keep her maiden name, which was rather unusual during that time. Obviously, the name of a country seemed more promising for a political career in Germany than the name of a city. Title: "Concordia domi foris pax" (Latin for "Unity at home, peace abroad") is an inscripition at the Holsten Gate of Lübeck. You may google the phrase for more information. (and know, what is scaring me: if you google for it, you will find among the first 10 hits a different puzzle with exactly the same title -- run by me in 2005! I have absolutely no recollection of this other puzzle. Isn't that strange ..) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 16473 Registered: 4-2010 |
Well, technically you added "history puzzle" to the title here...so it's not exactly the same...right? Great puzzle! | ||
| Solitiare (Solitiare)
New member Username: Solitiare Post Number: 726 Registered: 7-2011 |
Technically, this is called 'Lucy Stone-ism' after a 19th century US suffrigist; very uncommon at that time & still not the norm. Good puzzle, & educational. I didn't know that Rosa Luxembourg was married. Now that I know, I don't know what I will do with the knowledge, but it's nice to have it tucked away in my mental 'lumber room!' |
