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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As a kid, I had an assumption about how a certain man could be able to sit in a room in another city, tell me what the weather was like in his city and then tell me what the weather was like in my city. I assumed that he had access to a weather map of his area and my area, but he didn't. One day I went to this other city and actually went into the room where the man sat. I found that in order to tell everyone the weather in his city as well as other cities, he only needed to look out the window, then look at the clock and a piece of paper taped to the wall.

So who was the man, and what was his method of reporting the weather?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

True story?
Were his weather predictions accurate? Or highly vague ("The temperature tomorrow will be between -40 and 200 degrees")?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

True story? Yes
Were his weather predictions accurate? FA - they weren't predictions. But yes, you could say that the information he gave was accurate
Or highly vague ("The temperature tomorrow will be between -40 and 200 degrees")? No, still the FA, he didn't give this kind of information
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he just give descriptions of the weather, not predictions?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he just give descriptions of the weather, not predictions? Yes
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 4:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In addition to his own city, could he describe the weather in any other city within a certain distance of his own? Just in a few very specific cities? Did he know in advance which other cities people would want to know the weather in? Was this critical to his being able to describe the weather?

Was your city and his within 20 miles of each other? 100 miles?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he always look at the same piece of paper on the wall? or was it occasionally replaced by a different piece of paper?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the place, where the man sat, surrounded by urban environment? rural environment? Is its geographic location relevant? If yes: seaside? mountains?
Are any other features of the room (besides piece of paper, clock and window) relevant?
Did this man perform a TV show? A radio show?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In addition to his own city, could he describe the weather in any other city within a certain distance of his own? No, but...Just in a few very specific cities?...this.
Did he know in advance which other cities people would want to know the weather in? Yes
Was this critical to his being able to describe the weather? Maybe - can you rephrase?

Was your city and his within 20 miles of each other? Yes 100 miles? So yes as well

did he always look at the same piece of paper on the wall? Yes or was it occasionally replaced by a different piece of paper? No

Was the place, where the man sat, surrounded by urban environment? Yes rural environment? No
Is its geographic location relevant? NoIf yes: seaside? mountains? Not relevant
Are any other features of the room (besides piece of paper, clock and window) relevant? Only to help determine the man's job (see below)
Did this man perform a TV show? No, it was...A radio show?...this, yes.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there any writing on the piece of paper attached to the wall? Any drawing? A map?
Was the building he was in particularly high?
Was the clock an ordinary clock? Did it display anything else than time? Did it display an accurate time? Did it display time of that place?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there any writing on the piece of paper attached to the wall? Yes Any drawing? A map? Neither of these
Was the building he was in particularly high? No, in fact it was a two-story building and he was on the bottom floor
Was the clock an ordinary clock? Yes
Did it display anything else than time? No
Did it display an accurate time? Yes
Did it display time of that place? Yes
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the piece of paper produced or printed especially for him? Was it an extract from a newspaper? from a book?
Did it contain geographical facts? Distance from his place to other cities? Weather description in that cities?
Was the piece of paper the same one every day? Was it changed on daily basis? Once a week? Once a month?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the piece of paper produced or printed especially for him? No
Was it an extract from a newspaper? from a book? Neither
Did it contain geographical facts? Of a sort, yes
Distance from his place to other cities? No
Weather description in that cities? No
Was the piece of paper the same one every day? Yes
Was it changed on daily basis? Once a week? Once a month? It was never changed
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2012 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he look out of the window to check the weather? To check whether it was day or night? For another purpose? Did he look at something particular when he looked out of the window?

Did the piece of paper have any pictures on it? Did it have any words on it? Any diagrams? Numbers? Was any of it typed? Handwritten?

Could he have omitted any of the steps in the puzzle statement and still been able to report the weather in the other cities?

Were all the cities in the same time zone?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2012 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it a list of cities? and something else?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are airports involved?

Is the Window looking outdoors, or is it looking inside to another part of the building (such as an office window looking into common area for example)?

Is he a news broadcaster? Weather reporter? Air traffic controller?

The clock he glanced at, did it show any other information other than the time?

Would an adult likely have the same misconception that you did?

Would someone without out any meteorological skills (I know, somewhat vague), be able to do what he did?

Was there a limit in distance as to how far the cities were, that he was able to state the current weather?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 4:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he look out of the window to check the weather? Yes, but only one aspect of it
To check whether it was day or night? No
For another purpose? Yes, it was...Did he look at something particular when he looked out of the window?...this, yes.

Did the piece of paper have any pictures on it? No Did it have any words on it? Yes
Any diagrams? No Numbers? No
Was any of it typed? Handwritten? It was typed but could just as easily have been handwritten

Could he have omitted any of the steps in the puzzle statement and still been able to report the weather in the other cities? Yes

Were all the cities in the same time zone? Yes

was it a list of cities? YES

and something else? No

Are airports involved? No

Is the Window looking outdoors, or is it looking inside to another part of the building (such as an office window looking into common area for example)? The window looks outdoors

Is he a news broadcaster? Weather reporter? Air traffic controller? None of these, although broadcasting news and weather are a part of what he does

The clock he glanced at, did it show any other information other than the time? No

Would an adult likely have the same misconception that you did? Yes. In fact, I was an adult when I visited the room and it was then that he cleared up my misconception.

Would someone without out any meteorological skills (I know, somewhat vague), be able to do what he did? Yes - great q

Was there a limit in distance as to how far the cities were, that he was able to state the current weather? Yes
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 4:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

The city the greatest distance from the man: less than 10 miles? Less than 50 miles? less than 150 miles? More than this?

How many cities? Less than 5? Less than 15? More?

Is his weather report for all of the cities exactly the same (at a given time)? Does he broadcast on one radio frequency? Or more than one at different times?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Indeed you are!

The city the greatest distance from the man: less than 10 miles? No, but...Less than 50 miles?...yes.
less than 150 miles? More than this? The furthest city is approx. 20 miles from his location

How many cities? Less than 5? Less than 15? More?
15-20 cities. I can't remember the exact number but it isn't critical to solving the puzzle.

Is his weather report for all of the cities exactly the same (at a given time)? What do you mean?

Does he broadcast on one radio frequency? Yes
Or more than one at different times? No, just one. There is a small FA here which isn't extremely misleading but may be worth mentioning...
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he look out of the window at a weather report? At the clouds? At some information displayed outside? In a window? In another building? On a screen? Does he look to find out the temperature?

What Beachbum maybe means, and what I want to know is: does he report the same weather in all the cities? i.e. "it's raining in X, and in Y, and in Z". Is the weather usually the same in all the cities? If the weather is usually the same in all the cities, does he use the same words to describe the weather in each case? Or does he use different words? (For example, if it is raining and cold, he might say it's rainy in X but cold in Y)

If the office had no window and he couldn't see outside, would he still be able to say what the weather was in the other cities? If someone removed his chart from the wall, would he be able to do it? If he memorised the list of cities but had no window, would he be able to do it?

Is the weather-describing part of a game? A competition? A gimmick? Does he use normal everyday words to describe the weather? Words which people normally use to describe the weather?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he look out of the window at a weather report? No At the clouds? No
At some information displayed outside? YES
In a window? No
In another building? On a screen? No
Does he look to find out the temperature? YES

What Beachbum maybe means, and what I want to know is: does he report the same weather in all the cities? i.e. "it's raining in X, and in Y, and in Z". Ah, ok. He only reports one aspect of the weather in the other cities besides the one he's in (which you just asked about above).

Is the weather usually the same in all the cities? Yes, but with a slight difference
If the weather is usually the same in all the cities, does he use the same words to describe the weather in each case? He doesn't use descriptive words for any of the other cities, just for the one he's in
Or does he use different words? (For example, if it is raining and cold, he might say it's rainy in X but cold in Y) He only describes one aspect of the weather in other cities in relation to the city he's in

If the office had no window and he couldn't see outside, would he still be able to say what the weather was in the other cities? Hmmm, good question. Yes, he could, but something would have to be different about either the building or the room he's in
If someone removed his chart from the wall, would he be able to do it? Maybe, your next question deals with this...If he memorised the list of cities but had no window, would he be able to do it? Great q - Yes, he would (but see earlier note about change in the room/building)

Is the weather-describing part of a game? A competition? A gimmick? No to these

Does he use normal everyday words to describe the weather? Yes, one aspect of the weather
Words which people normally use to describe the weather? Yes, one aspect of the weather
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2012 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is the aspect of the weather that he describes the temperature? And is this the only aspect? If so, does he describe it using adjectives? Does he give the temperature in degrees? Does he describe the weather in relation to his city - i.e. it's hotter in X or similar?

Does he therefore need only to know the names of the cities? Is it true that he doesn't need to read the names of the cities? In order for him to be able to describe the weather if there was no window in his room, would there need to be a thermometer in the room? Another device? The same device as he looks at outside?

Does he look out of the window to check the temperature where he is? Can he also see the temperature in the other cities?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is the aspect of the weather that he describes the temperature? Yes
And is this the only aspect? Yes
If so, does he describe it using adjectives? No, but...Does he give the temperature in degrees?...yes, he does this.
Does he describe the weather in relation to his city - i.e. it's hotter in X or similar? Not in relation to his city but you're on the right track

Does he therefore need only to know the names of the cities? Yes, and...Is it true that he doesn't need to read the names of the cities?...he does need to read them, in fact.
In order for him to be able to describe the weather if there was no window in his room, would there need to be a thermometer in the room? Yes Another device? To do it the same as if he had the window? He would also need the clock.
The same device as he looks at outside? Yes

Does he look out of the window to check the temperature where he is? Yes
Can he also see the temperature in the other cities? No, he cannot
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 9:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the device he looks at outside a termograph? an anemometer? a wind vane?
Does he need to know about the caller's city: distance? direction? latitude? longitude? altitude?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would his method work with different cities? Is there something important about the names of the cities?

Does the list contain the names of every city he reports the temperature in? Does it contain the names of any other places? any other information?

Is the clock inside? Is it a standard clock? Does he look at the clock to check the time? Is the time relevant in relation to something else, for example when you might finish work? Eat? Do something specific? Does the clock give him any information other than the time? If he wore a normal watch and had no clock, would he be able to use this method?

Does he report the temperature in all the other cities each time he does it? Does the temperature he reports vary from city to city? Is the temperature he reports in each city the actual temperature in each city? The temperature that would be shown on a thermometer in that city?

Would his method work at any time of day or night? Would it work with any temperature?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the device he looks at outside a termograph? an anemometer? a wind vane? None of these - remember all he's doing is looking at something to check the temperature in his own city
Does he need to know about the caller's city: distance? direction? latitude? longitude? altitude? FA - he doesn't give the information in response to any callers

Would his method work with different cities? I'm not sure exactly what you are asking, but maybe this will help: his method can reasonably be used for cities within a certain distance from his own. Keep in mind that all cities on the list are within 20 miles of his own city. His method would be less likely to be effective with cities that were, say, 100 or more miles away.

Is there something important about the names of the cities? No

Does the list contain the names of every city he reports the temperature in? Yes
Does it contain the names of any other places? any other information? No to both

Is the clock inside? Yes Is it a standard clock? Yes Does he look at the clock to check the time? Yes Is the time relevant in relation to something else, for example when you might finish work? Eat? Do something specific? The time is related to something, yes, but none of these
Does the clock give him any information other than the time? No
If he wore a normal watch and had no clock, would he be able to use this method? Yes, he would

Does he report the temperature in all the other cities each time he does it? No (good q)
Does the temperature he reports vary from city to city? Sometimes YES, sometimes NO - great q
Is the temperature he reports in each city the actual temperature in each city? Ah, another great q! For his city yes, he always gives the actual temperature. For all other cities the best answer I can give is that it is unknown whether the temperature he gives is the actual temperature or not. HINT: Think about the process described in the puzzle statement.
The temperature that would be shown on a thermometer in that city? Yes, sometimes this is the case. Other times it's possible that he gives a different temperature than what would be shown by a thermometer in one of the other cities

Would his method work at any time of day or night? Yes Would it work with any temperature? Yes
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So...he looks out of the window at a thermometer, he learns what the temperature is in his own city, he then looks at the clock, then he looks at the list of cities, then he can describe the weather in his own city and the temperature in the other cities, which are within 20 miles of his city, using a method which would not work with a city that was a long way away but would work in any temperature and at any time. Is this right?

Would the method still work if he did the steps in a different order? Would the method work in any weather? Does he need to know exactly what time it is? If he knew, for example, that it was between 1 and 3pm, would his method work? Does he need to know the date?

Is it possible that the man gives a different temperature from what a thermometer would show because of a failing inherent in his method? Because of the variability of thermometers? Can his method be described as successful, taking the vagaries of thermometers into account? Does he ever make a mistake? Does he need to perform any kind of mental activity in order to arrive at the temperatures of the other cities?

Does he do this every day? Several times a day?

Is the order in which the cities appear on the list relevant? Does the list have a title? Is the purpose of the list simply to give the names of the cities? Is it understood but not written on the list that it gives other information about their cities apart from their names?

Is his show broadcast to all the cities? If so, is it broadcast at the same time?

Are his descriptions of the temperature intended to be informative? Huumorous?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So...[he] looks out of the window at a thermometer, [he] learns what the temperature is in [his] own city, [he] then looks at the clock, then [he] looks at the list of cities, then [he] can describe the weather in [his] own city and the temperature in the other cities, which are within 20 miles of [his] city, using a method which would not work with a city that was a long way away but would work in any temperature and at any time. Is this right? Yes, that's perfect! The "he" and "his" is still a minor FA which I'll clear up...

Would the method still work if he did the steps in a different order? Yes
Would the method work in any weather? Yes, at least with any temperature
Does he need to know exactly what time it is? No, not to the exact minute
If he knew, for example, that it was between 1 and 3pm, would his method work? No, it has to be more exact than this...
Does he need to know the date? No

Is it possible that the man gives a different temperature from what a thermometer would show because of a failing inherent in his method? Well, not really a "failing", no
Because of the variability of thermometers? Not relevant
Can his method be described as successful, taking the vagaries of thermometers into account? Yes, I'd say so, but multiple thermometers aren't relevant
Does he ever make a mistake? In what way?
Does he need to perform any kind of mental activity in order to arrive at the temperatures of the other cities? Yes indeed he does!

Does he do this every day? Several times a day? Yes to both

Is the order in which the cities appear on the list relevant? Not really
Does the list have a title? Maybe, but doesn't have to
Is the purpose of the list simply to give the names of the cities? Yes
Is it understood but not written on the list that it gives other information about their cities apart from their names? No other information is needed other than the names

Is his show broadcast to all the cities? Yes, and...If so, is it broadcast at the same time?...yes.

Are his descriptions of the temperature intended to be informative? Yes Huumorous? No

The lurking FA is simply that there is more than one "he" and "him" - the procedure is followed by more than one person
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is altitude relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - 9:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is altitude relevant? No
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 1:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the temperature that he (or someone else) gives for a city depend on the name of the city? Does he give the temperature of all the cities over a given number of reports? Does he give the temperature of his own city each time he gives a report? Does he give the temperature of a particular number of other cities each time? If so, one?

By "does he ever make a mistake", I mean does he ever report a temperature which is not the actual temperature of the city in question? And if so, does this matter? Does the method work even if the temperature reported is incorrect? And if so, is this because the purpose of the report is not to inform the listeners of the temperature in their city but to do something else?

Does he pick which cities to give the temperature for in any one report at random? According to a preset pattern? Depending on the temperature in his city? Depending on what time it is?

Is the time related to the anything about the other cities (except possibly their names)? If so, something that happens at a certain time or times? Something that people do at a certain time or times? Something that people stop doing at a certain time or times?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 2:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so it's only the temperature report that's relevant here, correct? IOW Merlin is always correct with the temperature report, but he does not report on anything else related to the weather?

IOW is his "weather report" is really just only the temperature of the cities that he is reporting on, right, and no other weather-relevant specifics are reported by him?

Is the progression of weather from one location to another, in the course of a given period of
time, relevant?
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 95
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 3:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Going back to the puzzle statement, you say that when you were a kid you assumed he had access to weather maps. Does this mean that you thought (when you were a kid) that he was, when giving the temperatures, actually giving accurate weather information?

If so, then did you find out that he didn't have access to weather maps before you visited the studio and saw him performing the steps in the puzzle statement? Some time before? Did you continue to think that he was giving accurate weather information?

Did you then wonder how he could tell what the weather was like in your city without weather maps? Did you think he had some special (magical?) abilities? Did you continue to think that he was giving accurate weather information? Did you think that he could tell what the weather was like anywhere?

Did you register at any point prior to visiting the studio that he was only giving temperatures and not actually reporting the weather?

Did you realise when you visited the studio that he wasn't in fact giving accurate weather information? And that the reason he could give the temperature in different cities without access to weather maps was that he wasn't in fact giving the temperature, he was giving other information?

If this is true, then was the other purpose that the temperature-giving served something to do with listeners' communications? Requests? Shout-outs, or whatever they're called? Was it part of a phone-in? A quiz? A game? Did the broadcaster speak to another person on air while giving the temperatures?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the temperature that he (or someone else) gives for a city depend on the name of the city? No
Does he give the temperature of all the cities over a given number of reports? Yes, only it's several people that do this (which was the FA earlier)
Does he give the temperature of his own city each time he gives a report? YES
Does he give the temperature of a particular number of other cities each time? If so, one? Yes - each time the temperature is reported the first temperature announced is the current temp at the building that the man/men are in, then the temperature in one of the listed cities is given. At the next report the process is the same except the other city is different than before.

By "does he ever make a mistake", I mean does he ever report a temperature which is not the actual temperature of the city in question? Yes, in reality this probably happens a lot (reporting a temperature in another city that is not the exact temperature in that city).
And if so, does this matter? No, it doesn't, and the reason why it doesn't matter is worth exploring
Does the method work even if the temperature reported is incorrect? Yes (see last answer)
And if so, is this because the purpose of the report is not to inform the listeners of the temperature in their city but to do something else? No, the purpose is to inform listeners of current temps in the city where the broadcast originates and in their own cities

Does he pick which cities to give the temperature for in any one report at random? No, but...According to a preset pattern?...this.
Depending on the temperature in his city? No, he always follows the same pattern
Depending on what time it is? No, the order of cities isn't dependent on the time, but something else is

Is the time related to the anything about the other cities (except possibly their names)? No, not about the city itself
If so, something that happens at a certain time or times? No
Something that people do at a certain time or times? Something that people stop doing at a certain time or times? No, nothing like this

Ok, so it's only the temperature report that's relevant here, correct? Correct
IOW Merlin is always correct with the temperature report, but he does not report on anything else related to the weather? Correct again - he is always correct with the temp in his city. As revealed above, the temperature he gives for other cities may not be the exact temp in those cities but this does not matter.

IOW is his "weather report" is really just only the temperature of the cities that he is reporting on, right, and no other weather-relevant specifics are reported by him? Yes, he only reports temperatures

Is the progression of weather from one location to another, in the course of a given period of
time, relevant? No

Going back to the puzzle statement, you say that when you were a kid you assumed he had access to weather maps. Does this mean that you thought (when you were a kid) that he was, when giving the temperatures, actually giving accurate weather information? Yes, and even as a young adult I assumed this

If so, then did you find out that he didn't have access to weather maps before you visited the studio and saw him performing the steps in the puzzle statement? Some time before? No - until I visited the studio I assumed that the temperatures for various cities were determined by weather equipment or computers in the studio. When I didn't see any of this I asked how the temperatures in other cities were determined. I was then shown the thermometer outside the window, the piece of paper with the names of nearby cities, and the clock on the desk nearby.
Did you continue to think that he was giving accurate weather information? Well no, but at this point we may want to find another word besides "accurate", this may be a bit misleading

Did you then wonder how he could tell what the weather was like in your city without weather maps? Not once the process was explained
Did you think he had some special (magical?) abilities? No, I never assumed this
Did you continue to think that he was giving accurate weather information? Well yes, but also I realized that even though the temp he announced may not exactly be what's shown on a thermometer in my city, it didn't really matter
Did you think that he could tell what the weather was like anywhere? No, I knew his "powers" were limited

Did you register at any point prior to visiting the studio that he was only giving temperatures and not actually reporting the weather? Yes, because there was always someone else who gave the other weather information (upcoming weather trends, air pressure, approaching cold/hot fronts, etc)

Did you realise when you visited the studio that he wasn't in fact giving accurate weather information? Yes and no - I realized that the temperature that was reported for that city was always accurate. I also realized why it didn't matter that the temps given for other cities were not exactly accurate.
And that the reason he could give the temperature in different cities without access to weather maps was that he wasn't in fact giving the temperature, he was giving other information? No

If this is true, then was the other purpose that the temperature-giving served something to do with listeners' communications? Requests? Shout-outs, or whatever they're called? Was it part of a phone-in? A quiz? A game? Did the broadcaster speak to another person on air while giving the temperatures? No - the purpose of telling the radio audience current temperatures was simply for information. This was never done during "call-in" shows, or as part of any contests, nor would it be done in response to a caller requesting the information. Usually 3 or 4 times each hour the person on duty would include in their broadcast the temperature in that city plus the temperature in one nearby city. When I visited the studio and asked "How do they do this?", the man who worked there said, "It's not complicated, it's actually very simple and if people knew how we did it they'd probably laugh each time we gave the temperature." Then he pointed out the window to the thermometer, next he pointed to the list of city names and then pointed to the clock and explained how these things were used in reporting the temperature.

Your questions are very good, just focus on the process of how the reports were given based on what you know now!
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the process:

1. Check temperature
2. Check time
3. Look at list of cities
4. Perform some mental calculation (assuming the vaguest possible values of "calculation")
5. Give the temperature in the studio's city and the temperature in one other city

Is this right? If so, does he know which other city he is going to give the temperature for before he performs the first step? Is the present pattern independent of the temperature? independent of the time?

Does he use the temperature in his city in his mental calculation? Or does he check this simply in order to give the temperature of his own city? Is the temperature he gives in the other city dependent on the temperature in his city? Is the temperature he gives in the other city related to the time?

Does it matter whether it is a digital clock or one with hands? Is the time itself relevant? Or the numbers which make up the time? The position of the hands? (I guess not if he can be a few minutes out with the time but not a few hours, but it's not inconceivable that I am missing something!)

Does it not matter if his method is not "accurate" because the listeners do not want to know the temperature? Do not care about the temperature? Cannot tell whether he is "accurate" or not?

Does he give the temperature in his city in an absolute number of degrees? Does he give the temperature in the other cities in an absolute number of degrees? Does he relate the temperature he gives in his city to something else? Does he relate the temperature in the other cities to something else? If so, the temperature in his city? The temperature it was in that city (the one he is giving the temperature for) earlier?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the process:

1. Check temperature
2. Check time
3. Look at list of cities
4. Perform some mental calculation (assuming the vaguest possible values of "calculation")
5. Give the temperature in the studio's city and the temperature in one other city
Yes, this is correct

Is this right? Absolutely
If so, does he know which other city he is going to give the temperature for before he performs the first step? Maybe, but it's not critical that he does. As long as he consults the list prior to making the announcement it doesn't matter when this step is taken.
Is the present pattern independent of the temperature? independent of the time? Yes to both - all announcers progress through the list in the same pattern all the time

Does he use the temperature in his city in his mental calculation? Yes
Or does he check this simply in order to give the temperature of his own city? This too - he checks to make sure he knows the correct temperature in his city before he does anything else


--- VERY GOOD Q's BELOW ---
Is the temperature he gives in the other city dependent on the temperature in his city? YES!
Is the temperature he gives in the other city related to the time? YES!
-----------------------------
Does it matter whether it is a digital clock or one with hands? It's a digital clock. I'm sure they could have put one with hands in the studio but preferred one that could be easily read at a quick glance.
Is the time itself relevant? Yes
Or the numbers which make up the time? Maybe, depending on what you mean by this...
The position of the hands? N/R
(I guess not if he can be a few minutes out with the time but not a few hours, but it's not inconceivable that I am missing something!) You're very much OTRT - the exact time isn't relevant but a time range is

Does it not matter if his method is not "accurate" because the listeners do not want to know the temperature? Do not care about the temperature? No, this isn't the reason. Listeners probably do want to know the temperature and are satisfied with what they hear even though it's not accurate to the very degree.
Cannot tell whether he is "accurate" or not? Yes, this is why it ultimately does not matter, because it's not likely that anyone realizes he is not accurate to the exact degree.

Does he give the temperature in his city in an absolute number of degrees? Yes
Does he give the temperature in the other cities in an absolute number of degrees? Yes

Does he relate the temperature he gives in his city to something else? Does he relate the temperature in the other cities to something else? If so, the temperature in his city? The temperature it was in that city (the one he is giving the temperature for) earlier? Maybe, depending on what you mean by this question. He does not mention anything else when announcing the temperature. What listeners usually hear is:

"The temperature in Mytown is blah blah, in Yourtown it's blah blah."

Now, the temperature he gives for his city is the temperature that is displayed on the thermometer that he can see outside his window. This is how he determines the current temperature for that city only. The temperature for all other cities is related to something, but not anything to do with those cities or their names. After he looks at the thermometer, he'll either look at the clock or the list next, then whichever of those he didn't look at first. Then he'll perform some mental calculation and make the announcement. Most of the announcers have done this for so long they probably have the list memorized so they don't even look at it, but they will always look at the clock before making the announcement. The process is so simple and non-scientific that you or I could do it immediately after we were shown the method and the listeners would not know the difference. Even a listener who was holding an exact "to-the-degree" thermometer in another city wouldn't really care that the temperature that you or I gave for their own city wasn't exact. Perhaps if it were a radio station with programs aimed at highly educated, sophisticated, technically-minded people then at some point the process would be criticized. But this is a station aimed at young adults, and as far as I know they've never gotten any complaints about the temperature announcements and probably never will. Just keep focusing on the process...
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So when he says "The temperature in Yourtown is blah blah", does "blah blah" include anything more than a cardinal number and "degrees (C or F)"?

And just to be absolutely sure, does he use the current temperature in his city as the starting point for his calculation? If so, does he then somehow use the time to arrive at the temperature for the other city? If this is correct, is this process independent of the preset pattern which determines which other city is mentioned?

Does he use the individual numbers of the time to arrive at the temperature of the other city? Does he add up any of the numbers which make up the time? Subtract? Multiply? Divide? Perform another mathematical function? Does the calculation use the time as a number? As a time? Is it based on which numbers appear in the time? (For example, if the last digit is 5, or an even number, do X to the temperature)

Is the calculation based on how many minutes have elapsed since something? How long it is until something?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So just to be sure, the calculation does not involve elapsed time, correct, such as how the temperature is like to vary with time throughout the day, correct? (See my question about this above).

Does he listen to broadcasts from other radio stations in other cities that report the temperature in their own city?
If so, is the clock used to form a chain of reports that are close enough in time so that temperature is unlikely to change much?

For example, 10 minutes after the hour, station "A" reports the temp in city "A".
20 minutes after the hour station "B", reports the temp in city "B" and also the temp in city "A", using the temperature he heard in station"A"'s report.
And so on for 30 minutes after the hour, for stations "C" and "B".
Something like this?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the wind pattern near his city very predictable? Are all the other cities downwind from his? Does he then just report the temperature that showed on his thermometer a certain time earlier, where that time is determined by how far away the cities are (thus assuming that the air just moves along at the same temperature through all the cities)?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd I think that's been ruled out
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So when he says "The temperature in Yourtown is blah blah", does "blah blah" include anything more than a cardinal number and "degrees (C or F)"? No

And just to be absolutely sure, does he use the current temperature in his city as the starting point for his calculation? Yes, he does
If so, does he then somehow use the time to arrive at the temperature for the other city? Yes, he does
If this is correct, is this process independent of the preset pattern which determines which other city is mentioned? Yes. The broadcasters' purpose is to be sure that each city on the list is included each day in temperature reports. If the exact order of the list wasn't followed but all cities were included it would be acceptable.

Does he use the individual numbers of the time to arrive at the temperature of the other city? Yes, in a certain way!
Does he add up any of the numbers which make up the time? Subtract? Multiply? Divide? Perform another mathematical function? Does the calculation use the time as a number? As a time?
The function is either adding or subtracting, nothing else. The clock is there for the reference of time, and it is the time of day/night that is relevant. Nothing it added to or subtracted from the time, nor is any function done with the numbers that make up any certain time.
Is it based on which numbers appear in the time? (For example, if the last digit is 5, or an even number, do X to the temperature) YES!

Is the calculation based on how many minutes have elapsed since something? YES, and...How long it is until something?...YES!

So just to be sure, the calculation does not involve elapsed time, correct, such as how the temperature is like to vary with time throughout the day, correct? (See my question about this above). No, it's much simpler than this. Elapsed time is only of secondary relevance, there is something else about the time that is important.

Does he listen to broadcasts from other radio stations in other cities that report the temperature in their own city? No - the 5 steps that Jane posted above are all that he does.
If so, is the clock used to form a chain of reports that are close enough in time so that temperature is unlikely to change much? No, nothing of this sort, it's much simpler.

For example, 10 minutes after the hour, station "A" reports the temp in city "A".
20 minutes after the hour station "B", reports the temp in city "B" and also the temp in city "A", using the temperature he heard in station"A"'s report. No, multiple radio stations are not used, and at no time does the broadcaster consult any weather information in any other city besides his own (and that's only the thermometer).
And so on for 30 minutes after the hour, for stations "C" and "B".
Something like this? No, but you're onto something with the idea of how long after/before the hour it is!

Is the wind pattern near his city very predictable? Unknown, doesn't matter
Are all the other cities downwind from his? Again unknown. Neither he or anyone else would have any way to know this. If you, I or anyone else was shown the 5 steps that Jane described we could provide the same information that the broadcaster does. We wouldn't need to know anything about wind patterns, geography or anything of that sort.
Does he then just report the temperature that showed on his thermometer a certain time earlier, where that time is determined by how far away the cities are (thus assuming that the air just moves along at the same temperature through all the cities)? Ah, ok, now I see where you were going with this. Great thinking, but this is way more complex than what is actually done.

I do believe we are nearly done!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: The man looks at the thermometer so that he knows the current temperature in his city, which he will report first and it will be accurate for his city. He probably has the list of cities memorized, but he may look at it just in case he can't remember which ones have/have not been used in a temperature report. When he looks at the clock and sees the time, he must perform a simple function before he can give the other city's temperature (which, strictly speaking, is not 100% accurate but the listeners aren't picky about this).

These Q's and A's are worth repeating:

Is it based on which numbers appear in the time? (For example, if the last digit is 5, or an even number, do X to the temperature) YES!

Is the calculation based on how many minutes have elapsed since something? YES, and...How long it is until something?...YES!

Even if you have no knowledge of weather or broadcasting you could give the same kind of weather report immediately after being shown the simple process.
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My apologies if already asked, but could he give a similarly accurate report without the clock?

Does his use of the clock actually improve the accuracy of his reports for the other cities, over just randomly stating a temperature within a reasonable range of the temp at his own city?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2012 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the calculation based on how many minutes have elapsed since the last hour? How many minutes to the next hour? If it's 1 - 29 minutes past the hour, add a degree from the base temperature? If it's 1 - 29 minutes to the hour, subtract one? And leave it the same if it's half past or the hour exactly? Or something similar?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is his report for the other city accurate enough for the listeners? Is his report for the other city ever inaccurate for more than 5 degrees? Is his report for the other city ever different from the report for the city he's in for more than 5 degrees?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My apologies if already asked, but could he give a similarly accurate report without the clock? Yes, he could

Does his use of the clock actually improve the accuracy of his reports for the other cities, over just randomly stating a temperature within a reasonable range of the temp at his own city? No, it simply affects what calculation he will make (see below)

Is the calculation based on how many minutes have elapsed since the last hour? Yes!
How many minutes to the next hour? And yes!

Is his report for the other city accurate enough for the listeners? Yes
Is his report for the other city ever inaccurate for more than 5 degrees? No
Is his report for the other city ever different from the report for the city he's in for more than 5 degrees? No

Now for the....

S P O I L E R

If it's 1 - 29 minutes past the hour, add a degree from the base temperature? If it's 1 - 29 minutes to the hour, subtract one? Yes!
And leave it the same if it's half past or the hour exactly? Or something similar? Actually if it was on the hour to 29 after they would add a degree to the local temp, from 30 minutes past the hour to 59 minutes past they would subtract a degree. Not very scientific, is it?


Nice job to all, especially to Jane for putting most of the pieces together!
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2012 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's probably more accurate than the scientific methods normally used! A most enjoyable puzzle!
Kyeannpepper (Kyeannpepper)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2012 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here in ********* (STATE BLOCKED OUT TO PROTECT MY IDENTITY), I automatically reverse the weatherman's predictions. He says, "We will only get a sprinkling of snow." I think, "YAY! SNOW DAY!" xD.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2012 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't get how this makes any sense. Why should it be warmer in the first half of the hour than the second half? It seems just calling out a random temperature reasonably close to the local one would be just as accurate.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 1:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd, I thought the same thing. I'm sure the guy who was showing me the studio agreed based on the look on his face when I asked how they know the temperature in the various cities. I guess in the late 80's and early 90's they weren't concerned that a bunch of young adults listening to their station would be sticklers about accuracy in the current temperature. Besides, they left the more detailed stuff (such as the "snow day" mentioned above, and it never snowed anyway) to the meteorologists (who probably used a similar method to what the radio station used, despite access to sophisticated equipment).
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yep, things are so different now then they were in ancient times aka 10 to 20 years ago.

I haven't actually researched it, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a way that any one can monitor a temperature sensor somewhere else in real time.

And also, just to nit-pick, this technique might fall short if it were based on a city, say, a few miles inland from an ocean (where the could be a substantial gradient, depending on conditions).

Great puzzle.

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