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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7924
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Adeline has a trait that is not particularly common anywhere, but is probably most common in people from middle-class backgrounds like hers. She was not surprised to find that it is rare among the poor, but she was surprised to find that it seems to be rare among the rich as well. What is it?
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Post Number: 961
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 3:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her trait related to her physical appearance? An ability? A matter of her personal history? Is it related to her family? her location? her personal preferences? her career? her education? her health?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

generosity?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7926
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 3:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is her trait related to her physical appearance? noAn ability? noA matter of her personal history? Yes--it's an aspect of ner personal history, not a character traitIs it related to her family? yesishher location? no her personal preferences? yes her career? yesher education? no or noishher health? no
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3005
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2012 - 3:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
generosity? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7937
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2012 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: What aspect of your personal history is apt to be related to your family's income?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3017
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2012 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

education? - but that wouldn't be relevant in England...
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7943
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3017
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2012 - 9:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
education?That's not it. - but that wouldn't be relevant in England...
Logician (Logician)
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Post Number: 670
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with the type of experiences had during childhood? Such as holidays taken? The neighbourhood one lives in? Extra-curricular activities?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7948
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Logician (Logician)
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Post Number: 670
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 8:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it to do with the type of experiences had during childhood?yopeSuch as holidays taken? no The neighbourhood one lives in? noExtra-curricular activities? yes
Logician (Logician)
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Post Number: 674
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are these extra-curricular activities ones taken within schooltime? (e.g. during breaks or lunch) Before? After? With the teachers/school staff engaging the children in the activity? The child's parents? Other parents/guardians? Other children? Other family members / friends of the family? Strangers?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7950
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 11:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are these extra-curricular activities ones taken within schooltime? possibly (e.g. during breaks or lunch) Before? dittoAfter? ditto With the teachers unlikely/school staff possiblyengaging the children in the activity? The child's parents?less likely Other parents/guardians? Please clarifyOther children? possiblyOther family members possibly / friends of the family ditto? Strangers? ditto
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7954
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Think about various activities other than schoolwork that a high school student or (more likely) college student might be engaged in.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1871
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beer drinking? Some other illegal activity that young people often engage in anyway?
Or is it participating in some legitimate group? Is it in one of the following [LTPF List of Student Organization Categories Which I Pilfered from the UConnTact Student Organization Directory]

Academic
Club Sports
Community Outreach Office
Cultural
Environmental
Exercise/Fitness
Greek Fraternities/Sororities
Involvement & Leadership Programs
Media
Military
Peer Education
Performing/Visual Arts
Political
Programming
Religious
Residence Hall Councils
Service
Social Justice
Special Interest/Other
Special Programs
Technology
University Program
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7958
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1871
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Beer drinking? no Some other illegal activity that young people often engage in anyway? no
Or is it participating in some legitimate group? Well, it's a legitimate activity but may or may not be done in a group Is it in one of the following [LTPF List of Student Organization Categories Which I Pilfered from the UConnTact Student Organization Directory] It's not participation in a student organization

Academic
Club Sports
Community Outreach Office
Cultural
Environmental
Exercise/Fitness
Greek Fraternities/Sororities
Involvement & Leadership Programs
Media
Military
Peer Education
Performing/Visual Arts
Political
Programming
Religious
Residence Hall Councils
Service
Social Justice
Special Interest/Other
Special Programs
Technology
University Program
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with 'middle-class morality' - which the poor presumably can't afford and the rich don't feel bound by?
Is the activity gender-related, or praticed more by one gender than the other?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7959
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Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solo1 (Solo1)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 10:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Anything to do with 'middle-class morality' - which the poor presumably can't afford and the rich don't feel bound by? no
Is the activity gender-related no, or praticed more by one gender than the other?Maybe a bit more by boys; maybe no difference
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 176
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with drinking? Buying drinks for other people? Driving?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7962
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Post Number: 176
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 6:53 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it to do with drinking?no Buying drinks for other people?no Driving? no
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Post Number: 1253
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the activity volunteering? giving to charity? engaging in competitive sports?

you said she wasn't surprised that poor people don't do it correct? is that because a person needs a certain income to do it? needs spare cash? is it because it's something that tends not to happen where poorer people live? because of the physical surroundings? is it because she thinks poor people do not have the right level of education to enjoy doing it? or think it is a good thing to do?

is it rare among the rich because they don't know this is something that people can do? because they don't want to spend their money? because it would actually be harder for them to do than less rich people? because the facilities are less likely to be present where rich people live?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7965
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Username: Kdoc

Post Number: 1253
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:19 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is the activity volunteering? no giving to charity? no engaging in competitive sports? no

you said she wasn't surprised that poor people don't do it correct? yes is that because a person needs a certain income to do it? yes needs spare cash?see previoius answer is it because it's something that tends not to happen where poorer people live? no because of the physical surroundings? no is it because she thinks poor people do not have the right level of education to enjoy doing it? noor think it is a good thing to do? no

is it rare among the rich because they don't know this is something that people can do? nobecause they don't want to spend their money? no because it would actually be harder for them to do than less rich people? no because the facilities are less likely to be present where rich people live? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7969
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Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 1:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: What did you do (or are you doing) while you were (are)mat university, besides going to school? Adeline has never done it!
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 298
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sport? Culture? Travel?

I am actually a bit confused by this puzzle. Is the "trait" of the puzzle statement the state of never having done this thing?

Does "it is rare among the poor" mean it is rare for the poor to do the thing? Or rare for the poor not to do the thing?

I will ask some questions worthy of the accolades when you clear this up for me!
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 7987
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 298
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 12:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Sport? no Culture? no Travel? no

I am actually a bit confused by this puzzle. Is the "trait" of the puzzle statement the state of never having done this thing? yes

Does "it is rare among the poor" mean it is rare for the poor to do the thing? no Or rare for the poor not to do the thing? yes

I will ask some questions worthy of the accolades when you clear this up for me! I can hardly wait!!
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1480
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the thing be considered part of one's social life? Is it to do with where she lives? Eg she has never lived outside of her parental home?

If most poor/rich people have done this thing, would they mostly have done it by age 10? Age 20? Is university/high school relevant to the thing that Adeline has never done, or just that is the age at which most people do it? Could Adeline do the thing any time if she chose?

Is the reason that poor people are unlikely to have the trait related to the fact that they may not be able to afford university? That they are more likely to have to work from an earlier age?

Is the 'thing' that Adeline has never done something that one does for an extended period of time? Something that can be done in one go and finished?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Registered: 4-2007

Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 6:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the thing be considered part of one's social life? not in the usual sense of the termIs it to do with where she lives? no Eg she has never lived outside of her parental home? no

If most poor/rich people have done this thing, would they mostly have done it by age 10? Age 20? Is university/high school relevant to the thing that Adeline has never done, or just that is the age at which most people do it? Could Adeline do the thing any time if she chose?

Is the reason that poor people are unlikely to have the trait related to the fact that they may not be able to afford university? yesish That they are more likely to have to work from an earlier age? yes

Is the 'thing' that Adeline has never done something that one does for an extended period of time? possiblySomething that can be done in one go and finished? possibly
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1481
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you missed these ones...
If most poor/rich people have done this thing, would they mostly have done it by age 10? Age 20? Is university/high school relevant to the thing that Adeline has never done, or just that is the age at which most people do it? Could Adeline do the thing any time if she chose?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1481
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Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 7:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I think you missed these ones... Oops!! Sorry!! See below. . . .
If most poor/rich people have done this thing, would they mostly have done it by age 10? no Age 20? probablyIs university/high school relevant to the thing that Adeline has never done, no or just that is the age at which most people do it?noish Could Adeline do the thing any time if she chose no?
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 319
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So could the puzzle statement be reworded as:

"Adeline has a trait that is rare - she has never [somethinged]. She wasn't surprised to find that most poor people have [somethinged], but she was surprised to find that most rich people have as well."

If so, is it surprising that rich people have done it because it is something that one would not expect rich people to do? To want to do? To need to do?

Is it related to money? Is it something which saves money? Earns money?

Is the "something" having a job? Signing on for unemployment benefit? Borrowing money? Running out of a restaurant without paying?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 1:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 319
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 12:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So could the puzzle statement be reworded as:

"Adeline has a trait that is rare - she has never [somethinged]. She wasn't surprised to find that most poor people have [somethinged], but she was surprised to find that most rich people have as well." yes

If so, is it surprising that rich people have done it because it is something that one would not expect rich people to do? yesTo want to do? yes To need to do? yes

Is it related to money? yes Is it something which saves money? no Earns money? yes

Is the "something" having a job? yesish GOOOOOOD QUESTION--FIND OUT WHAT SORT OF JOB!!!! Signing on for unemployment benefit? no Borrowing money? noRunning out of a restaurant without paying? no
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 324
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Working as a waiter/waitress? Working behind a bar? In a cafe? In a factory? As a cleaner? Delivering newspapers? Delivering post? Collecting money for charity in the street?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1482
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Working part-time? Working while studying? Working in the service industry? Working for minimum wage?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8002
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 324
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 1:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Working as a waiter/waitress? possiblyWorking behind a bar? ditto In a cafe? ditto In a factory? dittoAs a cleaner? ditto Delivering newspapers? ditto Delivering post? ditto Collecting money for charity in the street? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1482
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Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 - 12:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Working part-time? noWorking while studying? possiblyWorking in the service industry? ditto Working for minimum wage? ditto

This is close enough for me to declare a
****** SPOILER ************
Adeline is in a profession, & she's never had a non-professional job purely to get money (or "expeience"). She'd never been a waitress, babysitter, newspaper deliverer, etc., either during the school year or during summer vacations. I'm almost Adeline. I had a job as a file clerk the summer between high school & college, & I lasted all of TWO DAYS -- but other than that, I've never done any paid work but teaching, research, & freelance writing. As I've mentioned in earlier puzzles, my family was middle-middle-class (both my parents were high school teachers). I wasn't surprised that my high school & college friends from poor families took the sorts of jobs I didn't, but I was surprised to learn that some from rich families did, too, because their parents thought they should learn how the other half lived -- which, of course, they didn't, because being a waitress for pin money when you're young & healthy is nothing like doing this work to support your family when you're 55. I liked my parents' viewpoint: if you have to do this sort of work, it won't kill you, but if you don't, why do it? And why check out my new puzzle? Because it's soooooooo fascinating!!
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 203
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Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2012 - 3:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, that is a loaded spoiler!. Doesn't every teenager have to work? Or are their parents giving them free spending money?

Also, I don't know what "pin" money means.

Is the point that your parents were making, is to not waste time on blue-collar jobs but rather spend the time studying or bettering yourself?

But in the mean time, how did you afford those big macs at mickey dees? Did you already have a professional intern ship while you were in high school?

Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8052
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2012 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I was a teenager, I knew very few teenagers who earned money. This may be partly because I grew up in NYC, which offered few money-making opportunities for teenagers. In a neighborhood of huge apartment buildings, there are no paper routes or lawns to mow. And in the wonderful anonymity and privacy of those huge apartment buildings. your neighbors don't know you well enough to trust you as a babysitter. You barely know which of your neighbors have small children.
Pin money is money for small luxuries.
My parents weren't prissy enough to expect me to spend all or even most of my time studying & bettering myself. My father was an immigrant & my mother was a second-generation American, & they believed in the pursuit of happiness -- a very likeable belief in parents!!
I most certainly did not have a professional internship in high school or in college. Leisure time was for fun.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8053
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Posted on Monday, May 28, 2012 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops: I should clarify this. I had friends who had jobs while in college but not in high school, although many of my high school friends had jobs in college. College campuses offered lots of opportunities for earning money, but usually doing things you wouldn't do unless you needed they money A LOT. One exception, though, which I used as a basis for a puzzle several years ago, involved a college friend who took a part time job in a German bakery. The owners were a very nice couple who encouraged herself to help herself to the merchandise as much as she wanted on the job and also gave her pastries to take home every day. She loved the job -- wouldn't you? -- but she had to quit after a few months because she had gained 30 pounds.

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