| Author | Message | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7928 Registered: 8-2001 |
When I was an undergraduate philosophy major, I nearly left the field of philosophy because of a memoir I read about a famous philosopher. It was not a case of getting disillusioned about someone I had revered. (I never revere anyone.) Many philosophers read the memoir, but I have yet to encounter anyone else who nearly left the field because of it. How come? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 16918 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was he an ancient philosopher? American? European? Was the philosopher a male? (Haven't encountered any female philosophers in any of my classes yet, but you never know...) Relevant what your new field of study would have been? I'm already interested in this puzzle, as I am currently an undergrad philosophy major thinking of switching fields. | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7930 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 16918 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 12:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Was he an ancient philosopher? no American? no but irrelEuropean? yes but irrel Was the philosopher a male? yes but irrel (Haven't encountered any female philosophers in any of my classes yet, but you never know...) well, I guess I'm one. . . . Relevant what your new field of study would have been? no I'm already interested in this puzzle, as I am currently an undergrad philosophy major thinking of switching fields. To what? By the way, I originally wanted to be a mathematician, specializing in number theory, but I wasn't good enough. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 16921 Registered: 4-2010 |
Political science. And I'm afraid we don't cover lateral puzzles in my philosophy classes, as your name hasn't come up... Is the title of the book relevant? Is any of the philosophy promoted in the book relevant? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7932 Registered: 8-2001 |
Balin (Balin) New member Username: Balin Post Number: 16921 Registered: 4-2010 Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 8:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Political science. And I'm afraid we don't cover lateral puzzles in my philosophy classes, as your name hasn't come up... Is the title of the book relevant?no Is any of the philosophy promoted in the book relevant? no | ||
| Jane (Jane)
New member Username: Jane Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2012 |
Hello Nimue Is the identity of the philosopher relevant? Was it the memoir as a whole that made you want to leave the field? Or a specific part of it? Were you offended by what you read? Disillusioned, not about the person but about the field in general? Did it make you angry? Worried? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7933 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jane (Jane) New member Username: Jane Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2012 Posted on Sunday, April 15, 2012 - 11:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Hello Nimue Is the identity of the philosopher relevant? yes Was it the memoir as a whole that made you want to leave the field? both, but a specific part was most relevant Or a specific part of it? see previous answer Were you offended by what you read? yesDisillusioned, not about the person but about the field in general? yes Did it make you angry? yesWorried? yesish | ||
| Jane (Jane)
New member Username: Jane Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2012 |
Has anyone else been offended by it? Disillusioned? Angered? Is your reaction an extreme version of other reactions? Or is it completely different to other reactions? Is the philosopher currently alive? If not, was he born in the 20th century? 19th? 18th? 17th? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7934 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jane (Jane) New member Username: Jane Post Number: 41 Registered: 4-2012 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 6:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Has anyone else been offended by it? |b{ Probably, but not that I know of}Disillusioned? dittoAngered? ditto Is your reaction an extreme version of other reactions? noish Or is it completely different to other reactions? yesish Is the philosopher currently alive? noIf not, was he born in the 20th century? no 19th? yes 18th? no 17th? no | ||
| Jane (Jane)
New member Username: Jane Post Number: 43 Registered: 4-2012 |
Was he French? German? English? Was it something the philosopher said that offended you? Something quoted by the biographer? The biographer's interpretation of something the philosopher said? Something someone else said? An opinion of the biographer's own? | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1451 Registered: 4-2007 |
Was the memoir written by the philosopher? If not, relevant who it was written by? Did the book make you feel that you would not in fact enjoy studying philosophy? That you would not find it interesting? That it would make you angry? That you would disagree with a large part of what was taught? That you personally would not fit in as a philosophy student? Is there anything relevant about you personally that explains why you were offended? Age? Gender? Political leanings? Religion or lack of? Social background? Did the book reveal a trend in academic philosophy that worried you? A school of thought? Could/would the book have put you off having a general interest in philosophy? Or just made you not want t study it academically? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7935 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1451 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Tuesday, April 17, 2012 - 7:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Was the memoir written by the philosopher? yesIf not, relevant who it was written by? It's relevant that it was written by a philosopher Did the book make you feel that you would not in fact enjoy studying philosophy? noThat you would not find it interesting? no That it would make you angry? no That you would disagree with a large part of what was taught? no That you personally would not fit in as a philosophy student? yes Is there anything relevant about you personally that explains why you were offended? yesAge? noGender? no Political leanings? no Religion or lack of? no Social background? no Did the book reveal a trend in academic philosophy that worried you?\bP yes} A school of thought? no Could/would the book have put you off having a general interest in philosophy? no Or just made you not want t study it academically? yes or yesish | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7938 Registered: 8-2001 |
HINT: The main thing to focus on is why the book nearly put me off academic philosophy, rather than who wrote it or whom it was about. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 3018 Registered: 2-2011 |
had the philosopher in question had a bad experience with academic philosophy? with academia in general? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7940 Registered: 8-2001 |
Shez (Shez) New member Username: Shez Post Number: 3018 Registered: 2-2011 Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2012 - 9:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) had the philosopher in question had a bad experience with academic philosophy? no with academia in general? no | ||
| Beachbum (Beachbum)
New member Username: Beachbum Post Number: 126 Registered: 2-2012 |
Related to income of philosophers? The lifestyle of philosophers? Intelligence of philosophers? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7944 Registered: 8-2001 |
Beachbum (Beachbum) New member Username: Beachbum Post Number: 126 Registered: 2-2012 Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Related to income of philosophers? no The lifestyle of philosophers?yes or yesish Intelligence of philosophers? no | ||
| Jane (Jane)
New member Username: Jane Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2012 |
Were you offended on account of your views on a particular subject? Your politics? Your values? Your religion? Were you offended on your own behalf? On behalf of another person/people? Is Schrodinger's cat relevant? I know you are fond of cats... | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7945 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jane (Jane) New member Username: Jane Post Number: 61 Registered: 4-2012 Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2012 - 2:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Were you offended on account of your views on a particular subject? yesYour politics? yes Your values? yes Your religion? No. & I have no religionWere you offended on your own behalf yes On behalf of another person/people? only those who hare my values Is Schrodinger's cat relevant? no I know you are fond of cats... and how!! | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 5544 Registered: 9-2010 |
I am still of the opinion that the best way to figure out whether S's cat was dead or alive was to put a cheezburgur in the box... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 16967 Registered: 4-2010 |
"Curiosity only collapsed the quantum superposition of Schroedinger's cat into a definite state. What killed it was leaving it in a box for a week." | ||
| Kyeannpepper (Kyeannpepper)
New member Username: Kyeannpepper Post Number: 660 Registered: 1-2012 |
Yez! Kaylee, I still haz postz on ur latventure. I will givz kittehs cheezburgurs and see if that halpz. | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 669 Registered: 6-2003 |
So did the philosopher put forward a specific political opinion? (e.g. That abortion should be illegal, that the it's not possible to be moral without religion, etc.) Or a general political ideology? (e.g. libertarianism, conservatism etc.) A position/ideology that he himself believed? Or rather was outlining another position held by philosophers? Did you get the impression that a particular value/political belief/ideology was particularly prevalent amongst philosophers? That people (such as yourself) who didn't share this value/etc. would not 'fit in'? Clearly you didn't decide to leave academic philosophy: was this because your original impression turned out to be erroneous? Was once true, but no longer is? Or just because you decided you press on despite all of this? Perhaps out of a desire to prove him wrong / battle against the offense against your values? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7949 Registered: 8-2001 |
Logician (Logician) New member Username: Logician Post Number: 669 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 8:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) So did the philosopher put forward a specific political opinion? no(e.g. That abortion should be illegal, that the it's not possible to be moral without religion, etc.) Or a general political ideology? no (e.g. libertarianism, conservatism etc.) A position/ideology that he himself believed? yesishOr rather was outlining another position held by philosophers? no Did you get the impression that a particular value/political belief/ideology was particularly prevalent amongst philosophers? Yes, yes, yes!! GOOOOOOOO question That people (such as yourself) who didn't share this value/etc. would not 'fit in'? No. I'm not big on fitting in. It was more that I didn't want to spend my life around people with this value. Clearly you didn't decide to leave academic philosophy: was this because your original impression turned out to be erroneous? No, no, no!! Was once true, but no longer is? ditto. It may be even MORE true now!! Or just because you decided you press on despite all of this? yes Perhaps out of a desire to prove him wrong no / battle against the offense against your values? no | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 673 Registered: 6-2003 |
Would it be helpful / necessary to work out exactly what the value that you hold is, or the competing one held by the philosopher? Is it a value within a field? (e.g. within political philosophy, liberalism, communism, etc.) Or rather a belief that a certain field within philosophy is better/more worthy of study than others? Do we need to figure out why you continued in academic philosophy despite the prevalence of the competing value? Was it because you decided to switch/focus on a specific specialism, such that you could avoid (as much as possible) philosophers who adhered to this value? Or is it equally/more important why it doesn't seem like anyone else reacted in the same way you did? Is it simply because you're in a minority in holding this value that caused you to react in the way you did? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7951 Registered: 8-2001 |
Logician (Logician) New member Username: Logician Post Number: 673 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2012 - 10:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Would it be helpful / necessary to work out exactly what the value that you hold is, or the competing one held by the philosopher? yes Is it a value within a field? (e.g. within political philosophy, liberalism, communism, etc.) noish Or rather a belief that a certain field within philosophy is better/more worthy of study than others? no Do we need to figure out why you continued in academic philosophy despite the prevalence of the competing value? No--I continued for the obvious reason--my interest in philosophy outweighed this problem Was it because you decided to switch/focus on a specific specialism, such that you could avoid (as much as possible) philosophers who adhered to this value? unfortunately not Or is it equally/more important why it doesn't seem like anyone else reacted in the same way you did? see next answer Is it simply because you're in a minority in holding this value that caused you to react in the way you did? yes | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1456 Registered: 4-2007 |
Is it important how the book gave you the impression that this value was prevalent in philosophy? Did it it say that the philosopher in question held the value? If so, did you know this before reading the book? Did it fail to mention his holding the value, leading you to conclude that the value was standard in philosophy? If the book had been written by another philosopher about the philosopher in question, would you have got the same impression? If it had been written by a non-philosopher? Is the value one that could be considered philosophical? Is the style of writing of the book relevant? Eg it was written in incredibly pretentious and needlessly wordy language, and you worried that all philosophy would be like that? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7952 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1456 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is it important how the book gave you the impression that this value was prevalent in philosophy yesish? Did it it say that the philosopher in question held the value? noIf so, did you know this before reading the book?n/a Did it fail to mention his holding the value yesish, leading you to conclude that the value was standard in philosophy no Username: Enjay Post Number: 1456 Registered: 4-2007 If the book had been written by another philosopher about the philosopher in question, would you have got the same impression? yes If it had been written by a non-philosopher? no Is the value one that could be considered philosophical? noIs the style of writing of the book relevant? no Eg it was written in incredibly pretentious and needlessly wordy language, and you worried that all philosophy would be like that? Quite a lot of it is, but that's irrel to this puzzle. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1458 Registered: 4-2007 |
Did the philosopher hold the value? Did he not, and this was brought up as something unusual? Did he complain about the prevalence of the value in philosophy? Did the book fail to mention something that you would consider important? I asked whether your political leanings were relevant and you said no, but you also said later that you were offended due to your views on politics. Is the issue one that could be considered political, but is not connected to any one political viewpoint? Is the value a practical one? Moral? Connected to a particular attitude? Towards a group of people? Could a person be proud to say that they have this value? Is 'value' the best word to be using here? Would 'belief' be better? 'Ideology'? 'Opinion'? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7953 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1458 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 8:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did the philosopher hold the value? The writer of the memoir held it & it's unclear whether the subject of the memoir didDid he not, and this was brought up as something unusual? no Did he complain about the prevalence of the value in philosophy? no Did the book fail to mention something that you would consider important? no I asked whether your political leanings were relevant and you said no, but you also said later that you were offended due to your views on politics. No, the latter claim was a blooooooper Is the issue one that could be considered political, but is not connected to any one political viewpoint? No, it's not a political issue Is the value a practical one? noMoral? noish Connected to a particular attitude? yesTowards a group of people? yes Could a person be proud to say that they have this value? yes Is 'value' the best word to be using here? yes Would 'belief' be better? okay but less apt'Ideology'? not really'Opinion'? 'value' is better | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7955 Registered: 8-2001 |
HINT:This could have happened in any academic field, and in many other professions, too. | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 678 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is "office politics" relevant? Reasons for people working at a particular university / field of philosophy? The practice of doing philosophy "just for promotion", i.e. churning out papers to get published and be well-known? In general, the concept of actively trying to become well-known/famous in one's field (as opposed to doing it for its own sake, and 'fame' being a happy side-effect)? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7960 Registered: 8-2001 |
Logician (Logician) New member Username: Logician Post Number: 678 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 1:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Is "office politics" relevant? no Reasons for people working at a particular university / field of philosophy? noThe practice of doing philosophy "just for promotion", i.e. churning out papers to get published and be well-known? no In general, the concept of actively trying to become well-known/famous in one's field (as opposed to doing it for its own sake, and 'fame' being a happy side-effect)? no | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1252 Registered: 7-2001 |
so the book gave you the impression that a particular value was prevalent among those who study philosophy? and you would not like to spend time with people who hold that value? so you nearly didn't study philosophy? and that value is actually held by quite a lot of people? and did you feel disappointed that those who study philosophy, who 'should know better', also held that value? were you expecting philosophers to be more likely to agree with you? does the value relate to: healthcare? priority for healthcare? quality of life of an individual? ageing? euthanasia? the death penalty? animals? crime? the law? the way academics behave towards each other? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7964 Registered: 8-2001 |
Post Number: 1252 Registered: 7-2001 Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:12 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- so the book gave you the impression that a particular value was prevalent among those who study philosophy?yes and you would not like to spend time with people who hold that value? yesso you nearly didn't study philosophy? yes and that value is actually held by quite a lot of people?The point is that it's especially prevalent amomng philosophers and did you feel disappointed that those who study philosophy, who 'should know better', also held that value?No--I never thought philosophers should "know better" than other people, except about specific philosophical problems. were you expecting philosophers to be more likely to agree with you?no does the value relate to: healthcare? priority for healthcare? no quality of life of an individual? no ageing? no euthanasia? nothe death penalty? no animals? nocrime? no the law? no the way academics behave towards each other? yes | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7970 Registered: 8-2001 |
HINT: Find out the writer's attitude toward the philosopher he was writing about. | ||
| Enjay (Enjay)
New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1477 Registered: 4-2007 |
Was his attitude generally positive? Negative? Did he admire the philosopher? Agree with his theories or works? Did it indicate that the writer held the value? That he admired people who did? Looked down on people who didn't? That he did not, but was unusual in doing so? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7974 Registered: 8-2001 |
Enjay (Enjay) New member Username: Enjay Post Number: 1477 Registered: 4-2007 Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 1:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Was his attitude generally positive? yes Negative? no Did he admire the philosopher? yes Agree with his theories or works? irrelDid it indicate that the writer held the value? yes That he admired people who did? No, he seemed to take that value for granted Looked down on people who didn't? noThat he did not, but was unusual in doing so? no | ||
| Jane (Jane)
New member Username: Jane Post Number: 300 Registered: 4-2012 |
Did the writer slavishly admire the philosopher? Did he give the impression of endorsing whatever he said simply because it was he who had said it? Did you find it excessively sycophantic? Did you think he had compromised his own values in order to agree with someone famous/influential? Did you think you would have to do the same if you entered into the field? Did you think it would be dishonest? Did you think you would have to agree with the philosopher's opinion in order to be successful in the field? | ||
| Nimue (Nimue)
New member Username: Nimue Post Number: 7986 Registered: 8-2001 |
Post Number: 300 Registered: 4-2012 Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2012 - 12:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Did the writer slavishly admire the philosopher? yesDid he give the impression of endorsing whatever he said simply because it was he who had said it? yes Did you find it excessively sycophantic? As opposed to just sycophantic enough?? Did you think he had compromised his own values in order to agree with someone famous/influential? no Did you think you would have to do the same if you entered into the field? possiblyDid you think it would be dishonest? yesDid you think you would have to agree with the philosopher's opinion in order to be successful in the field? possibly Brilliant Jane triumphs again!!This is close enough for me to declare a ******** SPOILER ************* When I was an undergraduate I read a truly disgusting book, Ludwig Wittgenstein: A Memoir, by one of his students, Norman Maloclm (who taught at my college). It was like a parody of hero-worship at its worst. For example, Malcolm admiringly quoted W. as saying, " I don't care what I eat as long as it is always the same." M. actually thought that this ridiculous remark (would W. really not care of he ate dried worms all the time?) was worth quoting as indicative of a deep mind that shunned petty concerns. I thought: how can I be in a field where people admire such drivel? In fact, I don't fit into academic philosophy well -- it's full of inane hero-worship -- but I like the subject itself. I hope you like my new puzzle. Check it out!! |
