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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3808
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cliff owns a sports car and tries to always park far away from other cars, if possible, to avoid any damage to his car doors from being hit by nearby car doors. He always parks in a marked parking space, even if it means a longer walk to the building. When Cliff borrowed his brother's sports car he didn't bother to park in a marked parking place, and this ended up causing much embarrassment for Cliff and at least one other person. Why?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cliff or his brother get a parking ticket (depending on whether tickets are issued to individuals or vehicles in his jurisdiction)? Should he have (i.e. was he violating some parking regulation but for some reason wasn't ticketed?) If so, would it help to find out that reason?
Can we call Cliff's brother Bromine? Is Bromine the other person? If not, can we call that person George?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, April 30, 2012 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cliff or his brother get a parking ticket (depending on whether tickets are issued to individuals or vehicles in his jurisdiction)? No, neither of them did
Should he have (i.e. was he violating some parking regulation but for some reason wasn't ticketed?) No
If so, would it help to find out that reason? Well even though they didn't get a ticket it would be helpful to find out why this is the case
Can we call Cliff's brother Bromine? Sure, that's quite a unique name
Is Bromine the other person? No, so...If not, can we call that person George?...yes, that will work.

So that we're all clear: Cliff borrowed his brother's sports car. Cliff's brother's name is Bromine. The result of Cliff's actions caused embarrassment for George.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By "marked parking space," do you mean on a lot as opposed to, say, on the street? Or marked as in "marked with, say, a handicapped logo"?
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Marked parking space": is this marked as his space?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By "marked parking space," do you mean on a lot as opposed to, say, on the street? Yes, this
Or marked as in "marked with, say, a handicapped logo"? No, not this
"Marked parking space": is this marked as his space? No
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Cliff always park his car in a marked space for the same reason that he parks it far away from other cars? If so, is this reason just to avoid damage to his car? Or something else as well?

Can we assume that if Cliff didn't bother to park his brother's car in a marked space it was because he didn't care whether it was damaged by other cars? Did he not bother because he was in a hurry?

Are there any significant differences between his brother's car and his car?

Did Cliff know he was in his brother's car on the occasion in question?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 3:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had Cliff stolen Bromine's car? Did he park it illegally? Legally on the street? In the middle of the road? In a garage? In a roadside ditch? Did he drive it over a cliff?
Is George a cop? If so, should George have given Cliff/Bromine a ticket? But he didn't? For some reason which we should find out? Did Officer George violate Cliff's Constitutional rights? In some unusual way? Like stealing his pants, which constitutes a warrantless strip search?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3813
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 4:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Cliff always park his car in a marked space for the same reason that he parks it far away from other cars? Almost always, yes, but in this case no
If so, is this reason just to avoid damage to his car? Yes, this is usually the case, but...Or something else as well?...in this case it's not.

Can we assume that if Cliff didn't bother to park his brother's car in a marked space it was because he didn't care whether it was damaged by other cars? No - possible damage to his brother's car was not a factor
Did he not bother because he was in a hurry? Somewhat, yes - good q

Are there any significant differences between his brother's car and his car? No, actually they are identical

Did Cliff know he was in his brother's car on the occasion in question? Oh yes, he knew

Had Cliff stolen Bromine's car? No
Did he park it illegally? Strictly speaking yes, but there's more to it...

Legally on the street? No, he didn't park on a street
In the middle of the road? No
In a garage? No In a roadside ditch? No
Did he drive it over a cliff? No
Is George a cop? No
If so, should George have given Cliff/Bromine a ticket? N/A
But he didn't? For some reason which we should find out? Did Officer George violate Cliff's Constitutional rights? In some unusual way? Like stealing his pants, which constitutes a warrantless strip search? No, nothing like this
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he park somewhere marked "No parking"? On a lawn? On grass or dirt?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he park somewhere marked "No parking"? On a lawn? On grass or dirt? None of these
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the embarrassment caused to George anticipated by Cliff? Did he intend for George to be embarrassed? Did Cliff know George? Did Bromine know George?

Did Cliff borrow B's car because he needed to? If so, because his own was out of action for some reason? Because his own was not available for some reason? Had B borrowed Cliff's car? Did Cliff borrow B's car with B's permission?

Was there something in B's car which caused embarrassment to George? Something on the outside of B's car? Was it the location where Cliff parked it that caused George the embarrassment? Or something else?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a lady relevant? Are any of the men having an affair? Do any of the men think either of the other men is having an affair?
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant why Cliff had to borrow Bromine's car? Did he loan his own car to someome? Was his car stolen?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the embarrassment caused to George anticipated by Cliff? No
Did he intend for George to be embarrassed? No
Did Cliff know George? No
Did Bromine know George? No

Did Cliff borrow B's car because he needed to? Yes
If so, because his own was out of action for some reason? No, not this
Because his own was not available for some reason? Yes, but possibly with a factor of "no"
Had B borrowed Cliff's car? No
Did Cliff borrow B's car with B's permission? Yes

Was there something in B's car which caused embarrassment to George? No
Something on the outside of B's car? No
Was it the location where Cliff parked it that caused George the embarrassment? Yes, and...something else?...yes

Is a lady relevant? Yes (I wondered if anyone would ever ask about this)
Are any of the men having an affair? No
Do any of the men think either of the other men is having an affair? No

Is it relevant why Cliff had to borrow Bromine's car? Yes, very much relevant
Did he loan his own car to someome? Was his car stolen? No to both
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cliff have a suspended license? Was his car confiscated/seized? Did he crash his own far? Did he crash Bromine's car? Into George or George's car (for both cars)? Was Cliff allowed to be driving? Was he drunk? High? Otherwise intoxicated? Under the driving age? Just to be sure.... Cliff and Bromine are H/A/M, right? And not transvestites or otherwise gender ambiguous possible females? Or ex-females? Are Cliff and Bromine Siamese Twins? Identical twins? Other twins? Relevant who is older? If so, is it Cliff? Bromine? Is Cliff married? Bromine? Can we call the relevant lady Charmine? Is Charmine Cliff's wife? Bromine's? Their sister? Their mother? Their girlfiend? Same questions for Charmine's relationship to George (including whether she is simultaneously his and Cliff's/Bromine's girlfriend)? Is Charmine in Bromine's car with Cliff? Is George?
Did Cliff park in a space reserved for George? Thus forcing George to park in another space reserved for someone else? And the space said "Reserved for X" so they thought George was that person? Thinking of the time my mom parked in the space reserved for the janitor at a church to pick up my Sister at Girl Scouts, so they thought she was the janitor and told her to clean the toilets since someone threw up in one.
Wildcard (Wildcard)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Cliff's car in the shop being repaired? repainted? Was his car towed away? Anything preventing Cliff's car from operating correctly? stuck in the mud?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 9:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cliff have a suspended license? No
Was his car confiscated/seized? No
Did he crash his own car? No
Did he crash Bromine's car? No
Into George or George's car (for both cars)? N/A
Was Cliff allowed to be driving? Yes
Was he drunk? High? Otherwise intoxicated? None of these
Under the driving age? No
Just to be sure.... Cliff and Bromine are H/A/M, right? That's right
And not transvestites or otherwise gender ambiguous possible females? Or ex-females? None of these
Are Cliff and Bromine Siamese Twins? Identical twins? Other twins? Relevant who is older? If so, is it Cliff? Bromine? It doesn't matter what the ages are, and really doesn't matter who is older
Is Cliff married? Bromine? Their marital status does not matter
Can we call the relevant lady Charmine? Sure
Is Charmine Cliff's wife? Bromine's? Their sister? Their mother? Their girlfiend? Same questions for Charmine's relationship to George (including whether she is simultaneously his and Cliff's/Bromine's girlfriend)? Is Charmine in Bromine's car with Cliff? Is George? She isn't related to any of them, and she isn't in either car at any time, and neither is George

Did Cliff park in a space reserved for George? No
Thus forcing George to park in another space reserved for someone else? N/A
And the space said "Reserved for X" so they thought George was that person? Thinking of the time my mom parked in the space reserved for the janitor at a church to pick up my Sister at Girl Scouts, so they thought she was the janitor and told her to clean the toilets since someone threw up in one. Not this kind of thing, but good thinking
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Cliff's car in the shop being repaired? repainted? Was his car towed away? Anything preventing Cliff's car from operating correctly? stuck in the mud? No to all
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did someone steal Cliff's car? Did George?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the lady a real lady? Is she human? Is she a hypothetical lady that someone imagined?

Did Cliff borrow Bromine's car because Bromine had borrowed his? Did Cliff borrow Bromine's car because he couldn't use his own for some reason? Did he want to borrow Bromine's car?

Did Cliff know the lady? Had he met her before he borrowed Bromine's car? Had he seen her? Did he see her during the events of the puzzle? Did Bromine know the lady? Had he ever met her? Had he ever seen her? Had he ever heard of her? Same questions for George, please
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did someone steal Cliff's car? Did George? No to both

Is the lady a real lady? Yes, however...Is she human?...no.
Is she a hypothetical lady that someone imagined?
No, she's real
Did Cliff borrow Bromine's car because Bromine had borrowed his? No
Did Cliff borrow Bromine's car because he couldn't use his own for some reason? Yes, but possible FA here
Did he want to borrow Bromine's car? Yes

Did Cliff know the lady? He knew who she was, yes
Had he met her before he borrowed Bromine's car? Possibly, but based on your question above about the "lady", the meaning of "met" may be different than what you thought
Had he seen her? Yes
Did he see her during the events of the puzzle? No
Did Bromine know the lady? He knew who she was Had he ever met her? Same as answer for Cliff
Had he ever seen her? Yes
Had he ever heard of her? Yes
Same questions for George, please. George had heard of her, knew who she was, and had seen her.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a dog named "Lady"? Is she Lady from Lady and the Tramp? Was Lady in Cliff's car? Did she make a mess in Cliff's car and it had to be cleaned professionally? Is Lady still alive? Did she die in Cliff's Car? Was she tied to the roof of Cliff's car like Mitt Romney did? To the roof of Bromine's car? To the roof of George's car?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, May 03, 2012 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh wait, we caller her Charmine. Which I guess makes her a lady dog named Charmine.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 1:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a dog named "Lady"? No, OTWT
Is she Lady from Lady and the Tramp? No
Was Lady in Cliff's car? No
Did she make a mess in Cliff's car and it had to be cleaned professionally? No
Is Lady still alive? No...FA
Did she die in Cliff's Car? No, still FA
Was she tied to the roof of Cliff's car like Mitt Romney did? No
To the roof of Bromine's car? No
To the roof of George's car? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the Lady ever alive? Was the Lady famous?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the lady is not a female animal, right?
Is she a goddess? A saint? Mary?
A legendary character? A character in a book? On screen?
Is she a car? A boat? A statue? A model?
Have the men all seen her? Or an image of her?
Is she a picture?
Is it possible to touch her?
Is it possible to pick her up and move her?
Can she move independently?
Can she make a noise independently?
Is she a city? A country?

Are Cliff and Bromine the same person? Is there in fact only one car? Is Cliff Bromine's superhero alter ego?

When Cliff parked his brother's car, was he in the process of doing something to impress this lady?
Was he going about his normal daily business? Was he trying to stop something happening?
To save someone or something?
To make something happen?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the lady is not a female animal, right? Right
Is she a goddess? A saint? Mary?
A legendary character? A character in a book? On screen?
Is she a car? A boat? None of these, but...
A statue? this!
A model? No
Have the men all seen her? Yes
Or an image of her? Yes
Is she a picture? No
Is it possible to touch her? Yes
Is it possible to pick her up and move her? No
Can she move independently? No
Can she make a noise independently? No
Is she a city? A country? Neither

Are Cliff and Bromine the same person? No, they are brothers
Is there in fact only one car? No, there are 2 identical sports cars
Is Cliff Bromine's superhero alter ego? No

When Cliff parked his brother's car, was he in the process of doing something to impress this lady? No
Was he going about his normal daily business? In a way yes, but mostly no
Was he trying to stop something happening? No
To save someone or something? No
To make something happen? Yes!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the Lady ever alive? No
Was the Lady famous? Yes - she was, and still is
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a famous statue? The Statue of Liberty? Is her role in the puzzle that of a statue? Or that of person represented by the statue? Other concept represented by the statue?

Did Cliff borrow Bromine's car because he needed to get somewhere fast? Would any car have done? Did it need to be Bromine's?

Did Cliff borrow Bromine's car because he couldn't use his own for some reason? Yes, but possible FA here
Is this FA that Cliff's car was available for him to use?
Were he and his car in different places at the time when he wanted to use a car?
Is the FA that Chris couldn't use his own car?
Could he have used his car if he'd wanted to?
Did he want to use a car that was identical to his?
Bromine's car, because it belonged to him?
Or just any car that was available at that time?

Did Cliff have the keys to his own car on him at the time he used Bromine's?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she a famous statue? Yes, in fact...The Statue of Liberty?...that's it!
Is her role in the puzzle that of a statue? Yes
Or that of person represented by the statue? Other concept represented by the statue? Neither

Did Cliff borrow Bromine's car because he needed to get somewhere fast? No Would any car have done? NO...Did it need to be Bromine's?...yes!

Did Cliff borrow Bromine's car because he couldn't use his own for some reason? Yes, but possible FA here
Is this FA that Cliff's car was available for him to use? Well yes and no. Both cars were available for Cliff to use, and he needed to use both of them.
Were he and his car in different places at the time when he wanted to use a car? No
Is the FA that Chris couldn't use his own car? You mean Cliff? If so, I think the answer is "yes" - Cliff needed to do something with a car but could not use his own car.
Could he have used his car if he'd wanted to? Well I suppose so, but even so he still would have also needed Bromine's car
Did he want to use a car that was identical to his? Yes! He had to!
Bromine's car, because it belonged to him? No, he didn't choose it simply because it belonged to Bromine
Or just any car that was available at that time?
No, he couldn't use just any car
Did Cliff have the keys to his own car on him at the time he used Bromine's? Yes, but not relevant

Excellent q's
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did he need 2 cars? Did he use both cars?
Did he accomplish whatever he was trying to accomplish?
Was George's embarrassment a necessary result of whatever he was trying to accomplish? The purpose of it? Was it a by-product?
Did something go wrong for Cliff?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did he need 2 cars? Yes, and...Did he use both cars?...yes.
Did he accomplish whatever he was trying to accomplish? Almost...
Was George's embarrassment a necessary result of whatever he was trying to accomplish? No, it wasn't necessary (keep reading)
The purpose of it? No, in fact quite the opposite
Was it a by-product? Yes!
Did something go wrong for Cliff? Yes!
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he use 2 cars to create an alibi for himself? Did he want to make it look like something had happened to his car, for example for an insurance claim?

Was he trying to gain money? Was what he was trying to do in any way criminal? Was he trying to do some kind of stunt related to the Statue of Liberty? Was he making a film? An advertisement?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 6:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he use 2 cars to create an alibi for himself? No
Did he want to make it look like something had happened to his car, for example for an insurance claim? No

Was he trying to gain money? No
Was what he was trying to do in any way criminal? No
Was he trying to do some kind of stunt Yes, although there's a better word than "stunt" but you are OTRT
related to the Statue of Liberty? No, the stunt itself is not related to the Statue of Liberty; however, there is a very direct yet lateral connection between Cliff's stunt and the statue
Was he making a film? No, but very close!
An advertisement? No
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "stunt" captured on film? Was it photographed?
Was Cliff an artist?
Was he a news reporter?
A theatrical director?
A singer?
Was he promoting something?
Was he a politician?
A political activist?
A magician?
A scientist?
Was he demonstrating something?
Proving something?

Were the two cars in the same place at the time of the stunt?
Were any other people involved in the stunt?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

TV show?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3833
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "stunt" captured on film? Yes
Was it photographed? Not likely
Was Cliff a...magician? Yes
Was he promoting something? No (other than himself)
Was he demonstrating something? Yes
Proving something? Actually yes, but this wasn't intended

Were the two cars in the same place at the time of the stunt? Yes, but this can be explored more
Were any other people involved in the stunt? Yes
TV show? Yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1466
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Posted on Friday, May 04, 2012 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was he performing a trick? Which involved both cars? To make it look like one car had disappeared, or moved, or changed in some way? Was there an audience? If so, were they supposed to realise there were two identical cars? Did they realise? Was the embarrassment because the trick didn't work? People found out how he did it?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3834
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Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was he performing a trick? Yes
Which involved both cars? Yes
To make it look like one car had disappeared, or moved, or changed in some way? No, not this
Was there an audience? Yes
If so, were they supposed to realise there were two identical cars? NO
Did they realise? Yes, even though they weren't supposed to!
Was the embarrassment because the trick didn't work? Yes, and...People found out how he did it?...yes, and there's still more to it along this topic...
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 154
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Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 4:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the cars the centrepiece of the trick?
Were the cars props in the trick?
Was the trick to make something disappear? Were the cars used to make it look like the scene had changed?

Did Cliff park his brother's car differently in order to make it seem like the car had moved? The scene had changed?

If he had parked his brother's car the way he usually parked, would the trick have worked? Did something make him park more carelessly than usual? Or was it deliberate?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3835
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Posted on Saturday, May 05, 2012 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the cars the centrepiece of the trick? No
Were the cars props in the trick? Yes
Was the trick to make something disappear? Yes
Were the cars used to make it look like the scene had changed? Yes

Did Cliff park his brother's car differently in order to make it seem like the car had moved? No
The scene had changed? No, but you may want to ask this another way

If he had parked his brother's car the way he usually parked, would the trick have worked? FA
Did something make him park more carelessly than usual? Yes.....ish
Or was it deliberate? No, he did not deliberately park the car in a careless way
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 160
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Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the trick to make the Statue of Liberty disappear? Was it to make a person disappear? More than one person?

Did the trick work?
Did it work exactly as planned?
Was George's embarrassment the result of a small problem which nevertheless didn't affect the success of the trick as a whole?

Did he park his brother's car the way he had planned to park it?
Was it necessary for the trick for it to be parked the way he parked it?
Or did something unexpected cause him to park more carelessly than he had planned to for the purposes of the trick?

Was George present during the trick?
Was Bromine a magician too?
Did Cliff know George?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1470
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Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did one of the cars get damaged? Both?

Was the point of the two cars to make it look like a scene hadn't changed? Because there was still a car there, though it was a different one? Did Cliff enter either car at any point during the trick?

Did the audience realise there were two cars because they saw them both at once? Because something made them no longer identical?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3038
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Posted on Sunday, May 06, 2012 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did George try to steal the car? and was caught on TV?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3836
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the trick to make the Statue of Liberty disappear? This trick? No. But that trick is relevant to the puzzle.
Was it to make a person disappear? No
More than one person? No
Did the trick work? Yes and no, depending on who you ask and when you ask
Did it work exactly as planned? No (see previous question
Was George's embarrassment the result of a small problem which nevertheless didn't affect the success of the trick as a whole? Yes (I think). Finding out exactly who George is would be helpful in correctly answering this question

Did he park his brother's car the way he had planned to park it? Yes
Was it necessary for the trick for it to be parked the way he parked it? Good q - Yes, according to the plans for the trick the car had to be parked a certain way
Or did something unexpected cause him to park more carelessly than he had planned to for the purposes of the trick? YES

Was George present during the trick? No
Was Bromine a magician too? No
Did Cliff know George? Well not personally but he knew of George

Did one of the cars get damaged? Both? Neither

Was the point of the two cars to make it look like a scene hadn't changed? Yes, but this only applies to part of the scene (see earlier q's about the trick)
Because there was still a car there, though it was a different one? No, not this
Did Cliff enter either car at any point during the trick? Yes

Did the audience realise there were two cars because they saw them both at once? No, this isn't what made them realize this
Because something made them no longer identical?
No, both cars were always identical

Did George try to steal the car? No, so...and was caught on TV?...no.
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 170
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was George related to Cliff professionally?
Was he a sponsor? The TV boss? An advertiser? Did he work for the company that manufactured the cars?

Was this trick a trick involving a revolving platform?
Was the idea to make something disappear?
To disappear and reappear?
Or to make something appear to have moved?
Were there two scenes used in the trick, apparently identical but for the missing/moved thing?
If so, was one car used in one scene and the other in the other?
Did the audience at any point see the two cars at once?

Was it necessary for the trick for the two cars to be parked in different ways?
Were the two cars meant to be parked in different ways?
Were the cars moving during the trick? Throughout the trick?

Was George responsible for, or involved in, whatever caused Cliff to park more carelessly than usual?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3838
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was George related to Cliff professionally? Only indirectly, but yes, there is a professional connection between the two
Was he a sponsor? The TV boss? An advertiser? Did he work for the company that manufactured the cars? None of these

Was this trick a trick involving a revolving platform? Yes
Was the idea to make something disappear? Yes
To disappear and reappear? No
Or to make something appear to have moved? No
Were there two scenes used in the trick, apparently identical but for the missing/moved thing? YES
If so, was one car used in one scene and the other in the other? YES
Did the audience at any point see the two cars at once? No

Was it necessary for the trick for the two cars to be parked in different ways? NO, actually...Were the two cars meant to be parked in different ways?...NO, not at all!
Were the cars moving during the trick? No Throughout the trick? No

Was George responsible for, or involved in, whatever caused Cliff to park more carelessly than usual? No
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 173
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the cars supposed to be parked in exactly the same way?

Did Cliff realise as he parked Bromine's car that he was parking differently?
Did he park the cars in preparation for the trick?
Did he park one of the cars as part of the trick?
Both of them?

Was the thing he was trying to make disappear a building? A natural feature? A collection of buildings?

Was George connected with the thing that was meant to disappear?
Was this a publicity stunt for him?

Did the trick work except for the difference in parking making the audience realise it was a trick?
Or did the thing not disappear?
Did something else happen to make the trick unsuccessful?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3839
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the cars supposed to be parked in exactly the same way? Yes (but there's more to it and the puzzle statement holds a clue)

Did Cliff realise as he parked Bromine's car that he was parking differently? NO
Did he park the cars in preparation for the trick? Only one of them
Did he park one of the cars as part of the trick?
Both of them? He only parked one during the course of the trick

Was the thing he was trying to make disappear a building? A natural feature? A collection of buildings? None of these

Was George connected with the thing that was meant to disappear? No
Was this a publicity stunt for him? No

Did the trick work except for the difference in parking making the audience realise it was a trick? Yes, exactly
Or did the thing not disappear? No, this part of the trick went as planned
Did something else happen to make the trick unsuccessful? Yes, there was one other malfunction during the trick which is related to the location of the cars
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 174
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were any people on either of the scenes? If so, was this part of the trick?

Did he park his car in preparation for the trick? Bromine's?
Did he park his car as part of the trick? Bromine's?
Had something changed on the scene in between the parking of each car?
Was something different about the scene where he parked Bromine's car?
Were the spaces marked differently?
Was the space he was supposed to park in not marked?
Was the space he was supposed to park in marked but in a different place?

Could Cliff have parked his car correctly?
Or did something make it impossible for him to do so?
If so, is this the other malfunction?

You said before he was "somewhat" in a hurry. Was there a time limit for him to park the car before the scenes started moving, or something?

Was George embarrassed financially?
Did he look stupid?
Did he have to admit he was wrong?
Was something revealed about him that he didn't want to be revealed?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3840
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were any people on either of the scenes? Yes
If so, was this part of the trick? Yes

Did he park his car in preparation for the trick? No Bromine's? Yes
Did he park his car as part of the trick? Yes Bromine's? No
Had something changed on the scene in between the parking of each car? No
Was something different about the scene where he parked Bromine's car? YES
Were the spaces marked differently? YES
Was the space he was supposed to park in not marked? No, it was marked but you're OTRT
Was the space he was supposed to park in marked but in a different place? No but still OTRT

Could Cliff have parked his car correctly? Yes, and he did
Or did something make it impossible for him to do so? Yes...with Bromine's car
If so, is this the other malfunction? No, it isn't

You said before he was "somewhat" in a hurry. Was there a time limit for him to park the car before the scenes started moving, or something? No, think more in a broader sense

Was George embarrassed financially? Not likely but possibly
Did he look stupid? Well not exactly but OTRT
Did he have to admit he was wrong? No, he didn't have to admit anything
Was something revealed about him that he didn't want to be revealed? YES
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 179
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that George didn't want to be revealed a crime? His part in a crime?
That he had been somewhere he shouldn't have been?
That he hadn't been somewhere he should have been?
That he had done something he shouldn't have done?
That he hadn't done something he should have done?
That he had done something wrong which was not technically a crime?

Were there any other cars involved in the trick?
Is the fact that Cliff normally parks carefully to avoid damage to his car doors related to the trick?
Or to his parking habits in general?
Does Cliff use his car in his personal life?
Is the fact that he has to walk further to get to "the building" relevant?
Do we need to discover anything about this building?

Is the thing that disappeared a man-made object? A structure? A living thing?

Was the space where Cliff was meant to park his brother's car marked in the wrong place?
If so, was there something which prevented it from being marked in the right place?
Did Cliff do the marking? Someone else?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3841
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2012 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that George didn't want to be revealed a crime? His part in a crime?
That he had been somewhere he shouldn't have been?
That he hadn't been somewhere he should have been?
That he had done something he shouldn't have done?
That he hadn't done something he should have done?
That he had done something wrong which was not technically a crime? None of this. Focus on who George is and it will help answer this question. Keep in mind that Cliff and Bromine knew who he was even though they had never met him

Were there any other cars involved in the trick? No
Is the fact that Cliff normally parks carefully to avoid damage to his car doors related to the trick? No, this is simply a habitual practice of Cliff's and therefore somewhat of a red herring
Or to his parking habits in general? Not his general parking habits, no
Does Cliff use his car in his personal life? Yes
Is the fact that he has to walk further to get to "the building" relevant? No, just to point out a personal habit
Do we need to discover anything about this building? No

Is the thing that disappeared a man-made object? Yes A structure? A living thing? Neither

Was the space where Cliff was meant to park his brother's car marked in the wrong place? No
If so, was there something which prevented it from being marked in the right place? No
Did Cliff do the marking? No Someone else? This can be assumed, yes
Kyeannpepper (Kyeannpepper)
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Post Number: 695
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 1:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry if this has been asked before.
Is George a magician?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3843
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry if this has been asked before. It hasn't!
Is George a magician? Yes!
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 181
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 5:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had George done a similar trick and somehow managed to convince the general public that he had actually defied the laws of nature, and was revealed to be - shock! horror! - merely a master of illusion?
Was George embarrassed on behalf of magicians in general, who are loth to reveal the tricks of their trade?

Was the marked space in the scene featuring Bromine's car correctly marked?
Was it in the right place? i.e. exactly the same place in relation to the other scenery as in the scene featuring Cliff's car?
Was there another car in the space where Cliff should have parked his brother's car?
Was Cliff forced to park in a different space?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3844
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had George done a similar trick and somehow managed to convince the general public that he had actually defied the laws of nature, and was revealed to be - shock! horror! - merely a master of illusion? Exactly right. The public didn't really think he had defied nature, but they had no idea how he did the trick until Cliff accidentally showed everyone the secret. By the way, "Cliff" and "George" are real-life people, "Bromine" is the only person added that wasn't involved in the real-life situation.
Was George embarrassed on behalf of magicians in general, who are loth to reveal the tricks of their trade? Well yes, but especially embarrassed on behalf of a small number of magicians who do certain kinds of tricks

Was the marked space in the scene featuring Bromine's car correctly marked? Yes
Was it in the right place? Yes it was, and...i.e. exactly the same place in relation to the other scenery as in the scene featuring Cliff's car?...this as well. So both cars were in exactly the same position within the scenes.
Was there another car in the space where Cliff should have parked his brother's car? No, for a good reason that's worth exploring
Was Cliff forced to park in a different space? Hmmm...not for that reason, but there was a reason why Cliff's choice of parking spaces was limited...
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 187
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, to recap a little... Cliff parked Bromine's car before he did the trick. As part of the trick he parked his own car, in what should have been an identical place to the scene with Bromine's car. The marked space for him to park the car was in the correct place in relation to the other scenery, and the marked spaces in the two scenes were identical. But something about the way he parked revealed that there were two different scenes.
Is this all right so far?
If so, is it correct to assume that as far as the trick was concerned, and not knowing that he had parked Bromine's car in such a way as to spoil the illusion, Cliff parked his own car correctly when the trick began?

Is it the case that there were 2 scenes, one of which was "correct" as far as the trick is concerned - i.e. everything was where it should be and nothing was there that shouldn't have been - and one which was different at the time that the trick was filmed?
If so, was the scene with Cliff's car the correct one? Or the one with Bromine's car?

If Cliff had checked carefully when he parked Bromine's car, would he have noticed whatever the audience noticed?
Or was it not visible to him?
Did he not notice because it was not an issue at the time that he parked Bromine's car?
Did something happen in between his parking Bromine's car and beginning the trick to cause a difference between the two scenes?

Had someone who was not involved in the trick been on one of the scenes?
Had someone, unbeknownst to Cliff, added something to one of the scenes - a no parking sign, for example?
Had someone removed something that was supposed to be there?
Had someone
Were there supposed to be any other cars in the scenes?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3845
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Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, to recap a little... Cliff parked Bromine's car before he did the trick. Right
As part of the trick he parked his own car, in what should have been an identical place to the scene with Bromine's car. Which it was
The marked space for him to park the car was in the correct place in relation to the other scenery, and the marked spaces in the two scenes were identical. No! They weren't! No one has asked about this one aspect yet!
But something about the way he parked revealed that there were two different scenes. Right...because the spaces did not have the same markings
Is this all right so far? It is now that you've cleared up a big part of it!
If so, is it correct to assume that as far as the trick was concerned, and not knowing that he had parked Bromine's car in such a way as to spoil the illusion, Cliff parked his own car correctly when the trick began? Yes - as correctly as he could

Is it the case that there were 2 scenes, one of which was "correct" as far as the trick is concerned - i.e. everything was where it should be and nothing was there that shouldn't have been - and one which was different at the time that the trick was filmed? YES...if you figure out why things were different you've gotten it mostly solved, this is another issue that no one has really asked much about
If so, was the scene with Cliff's car the correct one? Or the one with Bromine's car? Well neither was exactly correct, but the scene with Bromine's car was more correct than the other

If Cliff had checked carefully when he parked Bromine's car, would he have noticed whatever the audience noticed? YES - great q
Or was it not visible to him? No, if he had bothered to look he easily could have seen it. This is what was meant with the issue of "hurrying" that came up before - Cliff should have noticed that there was a difference in the scenes, but he overlooked it. Part of the reason why is still to be discovered
Did he not notice because it was not an issue at the time that he parked Bromine's car? No, it was an issue from the time he began to set up for the trick
Did something happen in between his parking Bromine's car and beginning the trick to cause a difference between the two scenes? No, but you're OTRT for sure; something did happen to cause a difference but it wasn't during this time frame

Had someone who was not involved in the trick been on one of the scenes? No
Had someone, unbeknownst to Cliff, added something to one of the scenes - a no parking sign, for example? No
Had someone removed something that was supposed to be there? No
Were there supposed to be any other cars in the scenes? No

HINT: Think about the purpose of this trick. You know that it involved cars, people, and something else, right? The other thing wasn't a structure, it was something else. The "something" involved is connected to the reason why the parking places were marked differently and why Cliff overlooked this aspect of the trick.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3847
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This one is nearly done. The trick that Cliff was performing is directly related to the illusion of making the Statue of Liberty disappear. Cliff's trick used a rotating platform, and two identical cars were needed to give the impression that two identical scenes were actually the same scene with something having disappeared. The illusion was ruined because Cliff failed to notice that the two scenes differed based on how the parking places were marked. If anyone can figure out why he didn't notice this in preparation for the trick then we'll call it solved. The reason he didn't notice is directly related to the object that was supposed to be disappearing.
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 191
Registered: 4-2012
Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the parking spaces marked with paint?

Was the space where Cliff parked Bromine's car marked in a different colour?
In a different pattern?
Was the space marked in the same colour/pattern but more recently than the other one, so it looked brighter?

Had George previously done a trick where he made the Statue of Liberty disappear?
Was Cliff's trick to make something bigger disappear?
Was the thing which disappeared a famous thing? A landmark?
Something whose name begins with "The..."?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the disappearing thing block his view of some of the marks in the scene where it was present? Did it somehow constrain the way the markings had to be made on the scene where it was present?

If the disappearing thing was some sort of landmark, was the space in its scene marked in such a way as to make it look more authentic to the real-life version? For instance, if the landmark was in a foreign country, maybe the color of the markings or the signage that would be found in that country was used in the scene where it was, and the markings typical to Cliff's country in the one where it disappeared?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3849
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the parking spaces marked with paint? Yes
Was the space where Cliff parked Bromine's car marked in a different colour? No, but...
In a different pattern?...this
Was the space marked in the same colour/pattern but more recently than the other one, so it looked brighter? No

Had George previously done a trick where he made the Statue of Liberty disappear? Yes
Was Cliff's trick to make something bigger disappear? No, it wasn't bigger
Was the thing which disappeared a famous thing? A landmark? Neither
Something whose name begins with "The..."? No


Did the disappearing thing block his view of some of the marks in the scene where it was present? No
Did it somehow constrain the way the markings had to be made on the scene where it was present? No

If the disappearing thing was some sort of landmark, was the space in its scene marked in such a way as to make it look more authentic to the real-life version? For instance, if the landmark was in a foreign country, maybe the color of the markings or the signage that would be found in that country was used in the scene where it was, and the markings typical to Cliff's country in the one where it disappeared? Great thinking but no, not the case
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 2038
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now having looked up the trick of the disappearing statue of liberty (which I had not heard of before now), and seeing how it has been done in front of a live audience with the real statue, I wanted to ask if the disappearing object was on the stage? or whether it was visible behind the stage in one of the scenes?

Was the pattern different in that the lines were of a different type (for example, different thicknesses, one solid and the other dotted or dashed, etc.)? or that one had more lines than the other--for instance, one was marked only on two sides whereas the other was marked on three? Was this a parallel parking space? at 90 degrees to the curb? 45 degrees? none of these (for instance sitting in the middle of an open lot)? Relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now having looked up the trick of the disappearing statue of liberty (which I had not heard of before now), and seeing how it has been done in front of a live audience with the real statue, ...which is fascinating, isn't it? This trick had people fooled for a long time, and this trick that "Cliff" performed actually helped uncover how "George" did it!

I wanted to ask if the disappearing object was on the stage? or whether it was visible behind the stage in one of the scenes? The disappearing object was not on stage, but behind it. For those who have never seen the trick, here are the basics:

The illusionist arrives at the scene of the trick. In our case, Cliff arrived at the scene in a sports car.

Next, he shows the live audience and the TV audience a large object that he will make disappear (and we still don't know what Cliff was going to make disappear)

He then walks up onto a stage that is open in the back, showing the scene with the object. He closes the curtain for a period of time, and when the curtain is opened the object is gone.


Was the pattern different in that the lines were of a different type (for example, different thicknesses, one solid and the other dotted or dashed, etc.)? or that one had more lines than the other--for instance, one was marked only on two sides whereas the other was marked on three? Was this a parallel parking space? at 90 degrees to the curb? 45 degrees? none of these (for instance sitting in the middle of an open lot)? Relevant? Somewhat relevant in identifying where this was happening (which hasn't been discovered) and why Cliff wouldn't have noticed. He parked Bromine's car in an area with parking places that are consistent with areas for parking cars (rectangular spaces). He parked his own car in an area where the lines for parking were not aligned in a way that would indicate that cars are supposed to be parked there.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this filmed in a studio? Outside?
Is the scene what is actually there, normally, in that place? For example, if it had been the Statue of Liberty disappearing, would the audience have thought they were looking at the actual statue? Or an image of the statue?

So Cliff parked his car in front of the scene with the object in?
it was on the scene with the object in that the lines for parking were not aligned in a way that would indicate that cars are supposed to be parked there?
Were there any words painted on the ground?
Symbols? Letters? Numbers?
Was the thing that disappeared a helicopter?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this filmed in a studio? Outside? Outside
Is the scene what is actually there, normally, in that place? In an overall sense, yes
For example, if it had been the Statue of Liberty disappearing, would the audience have thought they were looking at the actual statue? Or an image of the statue? The audience was looking at the actual object

So Cliff parked his car in front of the scene with the object in? Yes
it was on the scene with the object in that the lines for parking were not aligned in a way that would indicate that cars are supposed to be parked there? Yes
Were there any words painted on the ground?
Symbols? Letters? Numbers? No, just lines, but it was evident that one set of lines was meant for cars, the other for something else
Was the thing that disappeared a helicopter? No, but VERY CLOSE
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 2:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

airplane?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 8:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that disappeared the thing which the space was marked for?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the disappearing object stand on the differently marked parking space, and that's why Cliff hand't noticed the different marking?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

airplane? YES

Was the thing that disappeared the thing which the space was marked for? Very likely, based on the markings

Did the disappearing object stand on the differently marked parking space, and that's why Cliff hand't noticed the different marking? No, the airplane was not in the area where the parking places were marked, it was behind that area.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the lines marked to indicate where part of the plane should go?
To indicate where something else should go?
To indicate where a vehicle used for parking the plane and then removed should go?
To indicate where the stairs should go?
Was the difference between the markings in the "correct" scene and those in the "incorrect" one relatively small?
Were the marks small?
Did Cliff stand on them while he introduced the trick?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the lines marked to indicate where part of the plane should go?
To indicate where something else should go?
To indicate where a vehicle used for parking the plane and then removed should go?
To indicate where the stairs should go?
Was the difference between the markings in the "correct" scene and those in the "incorrect" one relatively small?
Were the marks small?
Did Cliff stand on them while he introduced the trick?

Basically the lines where Bromine's car was parked were for cars. The lines where Cliff parked his car were long parallel lines, probably to indicate where planes would be parked. Cliff got out of the car to introduce the trick, but at that point the camera only showed him from the waist up, the complete parking area wasn't visible until he got onto the stage. But the only thing left to determine is why Cliff made the mistake - why didn't he know about the different parking marks? What made him "hurry", so to speak, and make this error?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had he come onto the scene later than anticipated?
Had he intended to paint the lines himself?
Had something happened to prevent him from painting the lines?
From checking the scene?
Had something happened to reduce the amount of time he had to perform final checks before the broadcast started?
Had something changed at the last minute?
Had the marks ever been "correct" before the trick started?
Had they been altered at the last minute?
Was Cliff blind?
Was he unable to look at the ground for some reason?
Ockhams (Ockhams)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the time for the TV program cut short? Due to a live sports event or news announcement?
Was there something wrong with the rotating stage?
Did an audience member suspect how the trick was being done?
Was something else going to come into the scene which would threaten the trick's success?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had he come onto the scene later than anticipated? Well no, BUT later than he would have wanted to if the decision about when to get to the scene were left entirely up to him (and it wasn't)
Had he intended to paint the lines himself? No
Had something happened to prevent him from painting the lines? N/A
From checking the scene? Yes, it was impossible for him to completely inspect the scene prior to doing the trick (so why would this be?)
Had something happened to reduce the amount of time he had to perform final checks before the broadcast started? No, something hadn't really happened, but there was a reason why he couldn't fully check out the scene before filming started
Had something changed at the last minute? No, he had known for a while that he wouldn't have an open-ended amount of time on the scenes
Had the marks ever been "correct" before the trick started? Yes
Had they been altered at the last minute? No
Was Cliff blind? No
Was he unable to look at the ground for some reason? Which ground?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had he been delayed picking up Bromine's car?
Was it impossible for him to inspect the scene fully prior to doing the trick because he didn't get to the scene with enough time to inspect it fully?
If so, is this the only reason he wasn't able to inspect the scene fully?

I assumed the lines were marked on the ground. Is this wrong?
Did he look at the markings to check where to park?
Did he judge exactly where to park using another method?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had he been delayed picking up Bromine's car? No, in fact Bromine may have brought it to the scene for Cliff
Was it impossible for him to inspect the scene fully prior to doing the trick YES
...because he didn't get to the scene with enough time to inspect it fully? No, not because of this. Cliff got there with as much time to inspect as he could, but there's another reason why his time was limited (think about what was going to be "disappearing")
If so, is this the only reason he wasn't able to inspect the scene fully? No, but there was really only one reason he couldn't fully inspect the scene

I assumed the lines were marked on the ground. Is this wrong? This is correct, the lines were all painted on the ground to mark the parking areas
Did he look at the markings to check where to park? Yes, but he assumed that the parking lines were all the same
Did he judge exactly where to park using another method? Well he would have known where to park based on previous staging of the trick (hint, hint)
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the aeroplane been brought in specially for the trick?
Was the trick happening at an airport? An airbase?
Was the plane required for duty before the trick? After the trick?
Did the plane arrive late?
Was it the plane which prevented Cliff from inspecting the area?
Did the plane damage anything?
Did something else happen which prevented him from inspecting the scene?
Did the plane obscure the scene?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the aeroplane been brought in specially for the trick? No
Was the trick happening at an airport? No, but...An airbase?...yes!
Was the plane required for duty before the trick? After the trick? Both!
Did the plane arrive late? No, it arrived when scheduled
Was it the plane which prevented Cliff from inspecting the area? No
Did the plane damage anything? No
Did something else happen which prevented him from inspecting the scene? Well not really "happen", moreso just the state of the way things were
Did the plane obscure the scene? No

So close to the final piece, probably just a formality now...
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a military airbase?
Were there military present?
Did he have to fill forms in?
Did he have to go through timeconsuming security procedures? Administrative procedures?
Was he not allowed on the scene at first for some reason?
Was he wearing inappropriate clothing?
Kyeannpepper (Kyeannpepper)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 4:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there other planes blocking the markings?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the markings change between previous staging of the trick and the filming?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a military airbase? Yes
Were there military present? Yes, at least they looked like military personnel
Did he have to fill forms in? Not relevant
Did he have to go through timeconsuming security procedures? Administrative procedures? Not relevant
Was he not allowed on the scene at first for some reason? Yes
Was he wearing inappropriate clothing? No
Were there other planes blocking the markings? No, there were no other planes in the scene
Did the markings change between previous staging of the trick and the filming? The actual markings never changed BUT this is very much OTRT (the idea of different markings and a change)
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the actual markings made before Cliff arrived on the scene? While he was setting up another part of the scene, or the other scene?
Were the people who looked like military personnel actors? Extras? Also props?
Was the plane in position when he arrived at the airbase?
Was he not allowed on the scene because someone was doing something with the markings?
Had Cliff asked someone to change the markings on the other scene, the one without the plane?
Had Cliff been changing the other markings?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the actual markings made before Cliff arrived on the scene? While he was setting up another part of the scene, or the other scene? The markings on the entire airbase were always the same, from the time Cliff decided to do the trick to the time he completed the trick.
Were the people who looked like military personnel actors? Extras? Also props? May have been actual personnel or actors, but this isn't relevant
Was the plane in position when he arrived at the airbase? No, likely not
Was he not allowed on the scene because someone was doing something with the markings? No, the markings were always the same
Had Cliff asked someone to change the markings on the other scene, the one without the plane?
Had Cliff been changing the other markings? No, neither Cliff nor anyone else ever changed any of the markings anywhere on the airbase

The reason why Cliff wasn't allowed onto the area where the trick was to be performed until a certain point is because that portion of the airbase was used for flight takeoffs and landings (someone asked earlier if the plane was used before and after the trick), so Cliff had to wait until the plane landed and could be put into position before he could completely set up the trick. But he wasn't just standing around doing nothing while he waited for the plane to get there...("different markings" is OTRT)
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what Cliff was doing in the meantime - between coming to the base and plane landing? Did he prepare something else (than a plane and a car) for the trick - and it has later changed? Did the other surroundings (besides markings) change?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what Cliff was doing in the meantime YES!
- between coming to the base and plane landing? Yes!
Did he prepare something else (than a plane and a car) for the trick - and it has later changed? Did the other surroundings (besides markings) change? Yes - well, the entire airbase and its surroundings never were altered in any way, every part of the airbase has always been the same. SO...if Cliff did something between coming to the base and performing the trick, and the base never physically changed (besides the plane landing), why would Cliff make the mistake during the trick?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: George would have also done "something" when he got to the site of the Statue of Liberty trick, but that wasn't an airbase, he pretty much had free reign over the area. Plus, the camera angle for that trick was from the ground up, so the viewers looked upward, and the sky doesn't have any relevant markings to worry about.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cliff check the scene through the camera?
Did he view it as the audience would view it?
Did he view it at the level of zoom used for the opening of the scene, where the ground was not visible?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Cliff check the scene through the camera? Probably, but not relevant
Did he view it as the audience would view it? Probably, but not necessary
Did he view it at the level of zoom used for the opening of the scene, where the ground was not visible? Hmmm...if he did he didn't pay attention to the ground markings

These q's are dealing with the right issue, keep thinking about what Cliff would have been doing since he couldn't be out on the airfield where the plane was going to be landing until after the plane was already in place
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did George previously perform a similar trick concerning the Statue of Liberty? Did Cliff try to imitate his performance, only that in his case with an airplane?

Cliff's failure also exposed George's trick? (thus embarassing him?)

Preparing for the trick, before the airplane landed, was Cliff inspecting the airbase? Talking with the support staff? Getting drunk? : -)
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he fell asleep?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the trick was performed, was the plane on the revolving platform? Behind it?
If it was behind it, does that mean the scenes were not in the area inaccessible to Cliff?
Was he checking the markings?
Testing the revolving platform?
Did he not bother to check the markings when he parked up at the start of the trick because he believed he already had checked them?
Had he failed to rotate the platform or rotated it twice by mistake, and thought he was checking both scenes when in fact he was checking the same one twice, so he thought the markings were identical?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did George previously perform a similar trick concerning the Statue of Liberty? Did Cliff try to imitate his performance, only that in his case with an airplane? All Yes

Cliff's failure also exposed George's trick? (thus embarassing him?) Yes

Preparing for the trick, before the airplane landed, was Cliff inspecting the airbase? Yes! And doing something else as well...
Talking with the support staff? Probably but not relevant Getting drunk? : -) No, he wasn't doing anything unresponsible, he was doing what any good magician would do

Did he fall asleep? No

When the trick was performed, was the plane on the revolving platform? Behind it? The plane was on the ground behind the platform
If it was behind it, does that mean the scenes were not in the area inaccessible to Cliff? Can you rephrase this? You're OTRT!
Was he checking the markings? He was checking SOME markings, but not the ones he SHOULD have checked!
Testing the revolving platform? N/R
Did he not bother to check the markings when he parked up at the start of the trick because he believed he already had checked them? Yes, only he hadn't checked those exact markings...
Had he failed to rotate the platform or rotated it twice by mistake, and thought he was checking both scenes when in fact he was checking the same one twice, so he thought the markings were identical? No

Part of what he was doing before the trick was checking markings, so why would he mess up the trick?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, when he was checking the markings, was Bromine's car parked in the place it would occupy for the trick?
Was Cliff's car parked in the place it would occupy for the trick?
If no to either of these, was the car in question parked nearby?
Parked on the scene, i.e. on the revolving platform?
Parked in a place that Cliff thought was the right place but actually wasn't?
Were there some markings for a plane on the scene where Bromine's car was parked?
Were the markings for the plane made after Cliff checked that scene?
Were the other markings that he checked incorrect?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 12:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, when he was checking the markings, was Bromine's car parked in the place it would occupy for the trick? NO, it was NOT in the place it would occupy during the actual trick.
Was Cliff's car parked in the place it would occupy for the trick? NO
If no to either of these, was the car in question parked nearby? Cliff did park both cars and check markings, but not the markings on the ground where the actual trick took place
Parked on the scene, i.e. on the revolving platform? No
Parked in a place that Cliff thought was the right place but actually wasn't? Ah, at one point the cars were parked in another place but Cliff knew it wasn't the place they would be parked during the trick
Were there some markings for a plane on the scene where Bromine's car was parked? Maybe, depends on one key thing...
Were the markings for the plane made after Cliff checked that scene? No, the all markings on the entire base were the same before Cliff ever arrived, while he was there, and after he left
Were the other markings that he checked incorrect? Yes, the markings that he took the time to check were not ones that were used during the actual trick...so why bother checking them? What was he doing?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have (probably belatedly) watched the Statue of Liberty trick, as I was confused about the scenes and the revolving platform. It's just as well. I thought the scenes were on the platform!

Was this trick set up the same way, with the audience on the revolving platform?
Did the audience view the trick through a frame?
Did one side of the frame hide the plane when it disappeared?

Were scene 1 (with Cliff's car, the first scene the audience saw) and scene 2 (with Bromine's car, the "disappearred" scene) set up next to each other?
On the ground of the airbase?
Was the plane behind scene 1?
Did the scenes consist of anything other than the cars?
Were there already markings on the ground when he first went to set up the trick?
Did these markings stay in place for the trick?
Did he, or one of his assistants, make some more markings in setting up the trick?
If so, did these markings stay in place for the trick?
Was the area that Cliff couldn't access before the trick the area where the plane would be during the trick? Scene 1? Scene 2?
Were the markings he was checking while he couldn't access the area in scene 1? scene 2? the platform? somewhere else?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the plane-to-disappear parked in the place that Cliff expected? Were all ground markings in the whole airbase the same? Would it matter if the plane parked in other place than anticipated?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this trick set up the same way, with the audience on the revolving platform? Yes, and the TV camera on the platform as well
Did the audience view the trick through a frame? The live audience viewed it from the platform, the TV audience had pretty much the same view
Did one side of the frame hide the plane when it disappeared? No, the curtain was drawn to hide the plane while the platform rotated to re-orient the audience to scene #2 where everything was the same as scene #1 only the plane wasn't there (see note after $poiler)

Were scene 1 (with Cliff's car, the first scene the audience saw) and scene 2 (with Bromine's car, the "disappearred" scene) set up next to each other? Yes, just a short distance apart
On the ground of the airbase? Yes
Was the plane behind scene 1? Yes
Did the scenes consist of anything other than the cars? Scene 1 was a plane with two lines of military personnel standing in front of it and a sports car in front of all of that; scene two was identical except the plane was gone
Were there already markings on the ground when he first went to set up the trick? Yes
Did these markings stay in place for the trick? Yes
Did he, or one of his assistants, make some more markings in setting up the trick? No
If so, did these markings stay in place for the trick? N/A
Was the area that Cliff couldn't access before the trick the area where the plane would be during the trick? Scene 1? Scene 2? Yes, Cliff was not allowed onto the area where the actual trick would take place until the plane had landed and been put into position for the trick
Were the markings he was checking while he couldn't access the area in scene 1? scene 2? the platform? somewhere else? YES, they were somewhere else!

Jane you have worked quite hard and very nearly have this one solved...Can you guess why Cliff would bother checking markings that weren't going to be used in the trick instead of taking time to more carefully check the markings that were going to used in the trick? For George's trick, he could only set up with the one actual Statue of Liberty, it wouldn't have made sense for him to check anything else since there was only one place to perform this trick. Cliff was on the base before the plane landed and was put into position, and he checked markings that weren't going to be in the area used for the trick. So what was he doing before the plane landed?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he check markings on another part of the airbase that was not currently in use, a part similar to where he would do the trick, assuming that the part where he was to do the trick would have the same markings?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he check markings on another part of the airbase that was not currently in use, a part similar to where he would do the trick, assuming that the part where he was to do the trick would have the same markings? Exactly!

SPOILER

Cliff was performing a version of David Copperfield's famous trick in which he made the Statue of Liberty disappear. Copperfield's trick remained one of the most baffling until other magicians tried to copy it and made errors which revealed the secret - the way to make a large object "disappear" was to simply have the live audience and the TV camera on a rotating platform with a stage. The audience would see the object then a curtain would be closed for a few seconds, then open to show that the object was gone.

Now, Cliff got permission to perform this trick on an airbase with a military plane, but was told he could not access the runway until the plane landed and was in position, but he could practice and set up the trick on a nearby runway (to set up spacing and rehearse parking the cars). The whole airbase was surrounded by trees, so the background would be the same in both scenes for the trick. He had two identical cars and two identical sets of people in uniform, so he could show the scene with the plane, close the curtain, slowly rotate the stage and open the curtain to show scene 2, which was identical to scene 1...EXCEPT, scene 2 had parking areas marked for cars only, so before the trick began Cliff parked his brother's car there. Scene one had parking areas marked for planes, but since Cliff hadn't been allowed onto the runway until just before the trick he overlooked this detail. He set up the trick and practiced on another runway with markings only for cars, not planes, so he expected the markings to all be the same. Thus when he performed the trick, those who watched closely saw two different sets of parking lines, meaning that he was using two separate scenes and didn't really make the plane vanish.

In real life, a magician actually did this trick and revealed (accidentally) the secret to Copperfield's famous statue illusion. Not only did he neglect to check the markings for parking, the TV camera panned back too widely as he climbed onto the platform, and it showed (very briefly) the two separate scenes, spaced about 50 yards apart, and gave away the secret of how this kind of trick is done. Copperfield had the luxury of having the whole statue area to set up, practice, and perform the trick. Plus, the cameras (and audience) for that trick were on the ground looking up at the statue against a night sky, so when the platform rotated away from the statue, they still saw night sky just like before. Copperfield's trick also featured helicopters which moved from scene 1 to scene 2 along with the platform, adding to the illusion.



Great work by all, Jane for staying with it and asking great questions and Enjay for putting it all together!
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great story and a great puzzle. AND I've learned how to make things disappear. You don't get that on Facebook.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jane, I just hate that you couldn't be there to put the final piece in place but your questions throughout the course of the puzzle were excellent
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry :-(
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Never be sorry! I'd like to pretend I'd have asked that question, but it would have taken me about a week.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the audience was on the moving platform, but the scenes weren't? If the scenes and the disappearing thing were on the platform, I could see it working easily, but if the audience were moved, I'd have thought that someone would have noticed that they were facing in a slightly different direction relative to the stuff behind them when they got out of their seats.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I guess he moved them back to make the plane "reappear"
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't know how the plane trick ended, but Copperfield did indeed move the rotating stage back to the original place so that Lady Liberty could "reappear." The platform rotated so slowly that no one seated on it would notice. Plus Copperfield help their attention so they weren't paying attention to anything else.

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