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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3848
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A song that was once popular was mostly known for its chorus, much less known for the verses. People who knew the verses assumed the song was about travelling. Some of the lyrics were very hard to understand simply by listening to the song, and even when people read the lyrics they could have made false assumptions about the song. Two false assumptions were that...

1) A person who was instrumental in getting the song played on the radio was actually a historical figure
2) Someone that the singer knew (and maybe that others should know about) was possibly using and abusing harmful substances regularly

The object is to figure out the song, and why these assumptions could be made. There will be some questions that I won't answer because they would give away too much (like "Does a man named Mike sing the song?"). Try to ask q's that relate to the subject matter of the song if possible. Once the song is identified, the next challenge will be to see if anyone knows what the song is actually referring to in the lyrics.

Have fun! If you get stuck, feel free to ask for help or guidance by putting these kind of q's in italics.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Looks fun. Unfortunately I have to rush out but I will be back later!

Was assumption #1 made because of some of the lyrics?
If so, lyrics from the chorus?
One of the verses?
Same questions for assumption #2

Was the song actually about travelling?
Do people now know what it was about?
Was it about people?
One or more emotions?
Politics?
Religion?
Was it a silly song?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the idea of a "trip" involved (which could be traveling or a psychedelic experience, depending on the context)?
Did people assume that the song was about traveling in general? or to a specific place? or type of place (the jungle, an ancient city, etc.)?

Did people think the singer was on drugs, or merely that he sang about someone who was? Was it in fact a man singing it? Did this impression come from the fact that the song seemed to not make sense? because there was mention of something strange or bad, but vague, happening to someone in the song?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it fair to ask the decade of the song? If so, 50s? 60s? 70s? 80s? 90s? 00s?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was assumption #1 made because of some of the lyrics? Yes
If so, lyrics from the chorus? No, but...
One of the verses?...this.
Same questions for assumption #2 Also lyrics from a verse, same verse as for #1

Was the song actually about travelling? Yes, as far as any listener would say
Do people now know what it was about? Some people do, yes
Was it about people? Only a portion of it was
One or more emotions? Not really
Politics? No
Religion? No
Was it a silly song? No, but it could be if you take into consideration the meaning behind two lines of the lyrics

Is the idea of a "trip" involved (which could be traveling or a psychedelic experience, depending on the context)? No - the word "trip" is not included in the song
Did people assume that the song was about traveling in general? Yes, and for the most part this is what the song is about
or to a specific place? Yes, actually to several specific places - 20, to be exact
or type of place (the jungle, an ancient city, etc.)? No, the song only mentions specific places

Did people think the singer was on drugs, No, nothing about the song would indicate this
or merely that he sang about someone who was? Yes, this was a possible assumption about part of the lyrics
Was it in fact a man singing it? No - I'll allow this one since it's a 50/50 shot
Did this impression come from the fact that the song seemed to not make sense? No, the song made sense even though not all of the lyrics could be understood even after several hearings of the song
because there was mention of something strange or bad, No, this isn't mentioned
but vague, Yes, the assumption would be made because of a vague mention about a person
happening to someone in the song? Well the song does not say that something "happened" to a person, but the vagueness of the lyrics could lead people to believe that it had

Is it fair to ask the decade of the song? If so, 50s? 60s? 70s? 80s? 90s? 00s? 1980-2000
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 2039
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the song mentions traveling to 20 different places? or just mentions them? and this is in fact to be taken literally (i.e. the places truly exist, and are not metaphors)? Did the listeners, even those who made the false assumptions, understand this much?

Is the subject of the "vague mention about a person" referred to by name? or is the identity of the person something the listener must infer? Is this person the "historical figure" from the puzzle statement? Did the listeners incorrectly assume it was?

Is the part of the song that makes the vague reference to the person the only ambiguous part? while the 20 place names are totally unambiguous? If so, did this part give rise to both the "historical figure" and "substance abuse" interpretations?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the song mentions traveling to 20 different places? or just mentions them? The song metions 20 specific places, yes. Some are mentioned as destinations, others as places to start a journey, and other simply are referred to
and this is in fact to be taken literally (i.e. the places truly exist, and are not metaphors)? Yes, these are all actual places that can be visited
Did the listeners, even those who made the false assumptions, understand this much? No. They understood that the song was mentioning places to visit or see, but at least 1 place that is mentioned in the song would be easily confused as talking about something else (assumption #2).

Is the subject of the "vague mention about a person" referred to by name? Yes, by one name
or is the identity of the person something the listener must infer? Well it's not likely that any listener would know who this exact person is, so an inference would be made based on the lyrics that reference the person.
Is this person the "historical figure" from the puzzle statement? No, that is another person referenced in the song
Did the listeners incorrectly assume it was? No

Is the part of the song that makes the vague reference to the person the only ambiguous part? No (keep reading)
while the 20 place names are totally unambiguous? No - there is 1 name that is ambiguous and thus it would lead to a false assumption
If so, did this part give rise to both the "historical figure" and "substance abuse" interpretations? There are only 2 ambiguous parts to this song - one mentions a specific person, not a place (false assumption #1, the historical figure); the other part mentions an ambiguous name which listeners may assume is a reference to a person (false assumption #2) and something vague about that person
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slang names for drugs relevant? Mary Jane?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slang names for drugs relevant? Mary Jane? No, not relevant, and the lyric isn't this specific. It's something more vague that would lead the listener to make an assumption
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 3:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So does the ambiguous place name sound like a hypothetical first and last name of a person along with an adjective? just a first name with an adjective? Or does it sound like a name, part of which is a nickname vaguely describing the person?

Are the places mentioned countries? cities? buildings? other landmarks? outdoor spaces (e.g. parks, squares, etc.)? natural features (mountains, rivers, etc.)?

Is the specific person mentioned, leading to misinterpretation #1, intended to be referenced in the song? or is the song referring to someone else of the same name?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 3:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

E-mail sent possibly identifying the name of the song. I can't explain why yet, but for the moment I'm going to stay out of it if I'm right.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the song sung in English?
Did the assumed historical figure live earlier than 20th century? Is the figure a ruler? A politician? An artist? Is the place mentioned named after that historical figure?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So does the ambiguous place name sound like a hypothetical first and last name of a person along with an adjective? No - it includes one name and then a word that could lead to the false assumption about substance use
just a first name with an adjective? The name could be a first name or a last name. The other word is not an adjective.
Or does it sound like a name, part of which is a nickname vaguely describing the person? No, but I should clarify - in the lyrics of the song, the exact name of the place as it appears on maps is not sung, but rather used in a way that sounds like the singer is giving information about a person. Anyone who has heard of the place that is referenced would understand that it is just another geographical place being listed in the song. Those who haven't heard the name of this place would think the singer is talking about two people in that verse, not a person and a place.

Are the places mentioned countries? Some of them, yes cities? Yes, this too
buildings? No
other landmarks? No
outdoor spaces (e.g. parks, squares, etc.)? No
natural features (mountains, rivers, etc.)? Yes

Is the specific person mentioned, leading to misinterpretation #1, intended to be referenced in the song? Yes
or is the song referring to someone else of the same name? No, it is an intentional reference to a specific person
Is the song sung in English? Yes
Did the assumed historical figure live earlier than 20th century? Good q - based on the lyric, a listener would assume that the song is referring to someone who lived in the 20th century and was almost certainly alive at the time the song was released. However, there are some who have questioned the song's lyric about this person, assuming it was someone who would have lived before the 20th century (probably 13th-14th century)
Is the figure a ruler? A politician? An artist? None of these
Is the place mentioned named after that historical figure? No

Greg your guess was a good one but it's not the song you're thinking of...
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the people who assume that the lyric is referring to someone contemporary and the people who assume it is referring to someone medieval understand the lyric correctly?
If both sets of people had to write down the lyric, would they write the same words?
Would they write the same words but interpret them differently?

Do the people who assumed that the person was a historical figure have anything in common other than this assumption?
Is there anything about them as a group which makes them assume this?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the people who assume that the lyric is referring to someone contemporary and the people who assume it is referring to someone medieval understand the lyric correctly? Yes
If both sets of people had to write down the lyric, would they write the same words? Most likely, yes
Would they write the same words but interpret them differently? Possibly - if they knew who the person was they would very likely make the correct interpretation. It's safe to assume that very few people who heard the song (or hear it today) have any idea who the person is. But there is more than one way to interpret the lyric, and the reason that most people make (made) the false assumption is that they connect the lyric with the overall meaning of the song, when in fact it's intended to carry an entirely different meaning

Do the people who assumed that the person was a historical figure have anything in common other than this assumption? Besides the fact that they like the song? Probably not.
Is there anything about them as a group which makes them assume this? No. As stated earlier, when someone hears the song they either know immediately who the person is and they understand the meaning of the lyric, or they make an assumption about the person based on the overall meaning of the song.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the person referred to in the lyric mentioned by name? If so, his or her own name? A nickname?
Was the person mentioned in the lyric ever actually alive?
Is the contemporary person a DJ? Involved in the music industry?

Was the historical person some people assume the reference is to ever actually alive?
Is the historical person a famous explorer?

Did the singer ever confirm who the person mentioned was? Is this relevant?

Does this:
when someone hears the song they either know immediately who the person is and they understand the meaning of the lyric, or they make an assumption about the person based on the overall meaning of the song
mean that:

Some people know that the person is the contemporary person just from hearing the lyric?
These people know who the person is because that person is famous?
They know who the person is because he/she is a kind of person? A generic person?
Some people don't immediately understand who the person is?
If someone doesn't immediately know who the person is, he/she will make the wrong assumption?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the person referred to in the lyric mentioned by name? Well two people are referred to in the verse. The first reference includes the person's full name (first and last), the second "person" is only referenced by one name, and it's unclear if it is the first or last name
If so, his or her own name? Yes, the first person referred to is referred to by their own, full name A nickname? No
Was the person mentioned in the lyric ever actually alive? Yes, the person was in fact alive when the song was written, recorded and released
Is the contemporary person a DJ? No, but he is...Involved in the music industry?...this.

Was the historical person some people assume the reference is to ever actually alive? No, at least there is no historical record of such a person
Is the historical person a famous explorer? Ah, no, but this is very close to what people falsely assume!

Did the singer ever confirm who the person mentioned was? No Is this relevant? Not sure. The only way to truly find out who the person is would be to look up information about the lyrics and their intent

Does this:
"when someone hears the song they either know immediately who the person is and they understand the meaning of the lyric, or they make an assumption about the person based on the overall meaning of the song"
mean that:

Some people know that the person is the contemporary person just from hearing the lyric? Yes, but only a very small number of people compared to the number of people who hear (heard) the song
These people know who the person is because that person is famous? Well the person is only "famous" to the very few who recognize the name. Other than that group of people it's unlikely that anyone would have ever heard of the person
They know who the person is because he/she is a kind of person? No, it's highly unlikely that anyone would figure out what kind of person this is based on the lyric and the overall meaning of the song A generic person? No
Some people don't immediately understand who the person is? Right, in fact the majority of people don't, so they make an assumption because of what is sung in the rest of the song
If someone doesn't immediately know who the person is, he/she will make the wrong assumption? Yes, very likely
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

two people are referred to in the verse. The first reference includes the person's full name (first and last), the second "person" is only referenced by one name, and it's unclear if it is the first or last name

Here, is the first reference the one which gives rise to false assumption #1 (that the person referred to is a historical figure)?
And is the second reference the one which gives rise to false assumption #2 (that someone was possibly abusing harmful substances)?
Or do both references give rise to assumption #1?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here, is the first reference the one which gives rise to false assumption #1 (that the person referred to is a historical figure)? Yes
And is the second reference the one which gives rise to false assumption #2 (that someone was possibly abusing harmful substances)? Yes
Or do both references give rise to assumption #1? No, two separate false assumptions about two separate people
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So do the people who know who this guy was immediately recognise the name, and understand the lyrics?
And do the people who don't know who this guy was assume that the name refers to a historical person?
If so, do the people who don't know who he was infer a different meaning from the lyrics?
Do they think the name refers to a historical person because of how it sounds?
Do they assume that because the rest of the song seems to be about travelling, the person mentioned is most probably a historical explorer or something similar, even though they haven't actually heard of him?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And reference #2, the name and word which suggests substance use: this is a reference to a place, but to anyone who hadn't heard of the place it might sound like the singer is giving information about a person. It is not the exact name of the place as it would appear on a map, but anyone who has heard of the place would recognise the reference. Is this right?

From the words used, does it sound like the person being described is known to the singer? If so, intimately?
A relative? Friend? Partner? Ex?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 1:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So do the people who know who this guy was immediately recognise the name, and understand the lyrics? Yes
And do the people who don't know who this guy was assume that the name refers to a historical person? Right, or at least someone who has gained fame for a certain reason at the time of the song's release
If so, do the people who don't know who he was infer a different meaning from the lyrics? Yes
Do they think the name refers to a historical person because of how it sounds? No
Do they assume that because the rest of the song seems to be about travelling, the person mentioned is most probably a historical explorer or something similar, even though they haven't actually heard of him? Exactly!

And reference #2, the name and word which suggests substance use: this is a reference to a place, but to anyone who hadn't heard of the place it might sound like the singer is giving information about a person. Right
It is not the exact name of the place as it would appear on a map, but anyone who has heard of the place would recognise the reference. Is this right? Yes

From the words used, does it sound like the person being described is known to the singer? If so, intimately? Yes, that's a safe assumption since the singer only refers to one name (either first or last)
A relative? Friend? Partner? Ex? This is unclear based on the lyric, but one would assume it's a person that the singer has spent some time with and may be a friend or relative
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is reference #2 the name given to a place which does actually appear on maps under a different name? A real place?
Is it the nickname of a place?
Is it the name of a place in the local language?

Do you say it could be a first or last name because it is one of those names which can be either? i.e. not a "traditional" solely first or last name, like Jennifer?
Is it a common name?
Is it a girl's name? a boy's name? Either?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is reference #2 the name given to a place which does actually appear on maps under a different name? A real place? Yes, it is a real place. The lyric personifies the name of the place, so a listener would either think that the singer is simply personifying a town (if they've ever heard the town's name), or referring to a friend and that friend's problems
Is it the nickname of a place? No
Is it the name of a place in the local language?
No
Do you say it could be a first or last name because it is one of those names which can be either? i.e. not a "traditional" solely first or last name, like Jennifer? Right
Is it a common name? Hmmm...hard to say..."common" is in the eye of the beholder, but it's not a name you hear every day. However, it's a name that became well known at a point in history related to politics.
Is it a girl's name? a boy's name? Either? Could be either, but the song makes it clear that it's a reference to a boy/man
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The song I am Australian doesn't fit all the information in this puzzle, but it contains lines such as "I am Albert Namatrija / I paint the ghostly gums", with Namatrija being an Australian painter, and these lines are supposed to represent different types of Australians. Of course, the singer isn't all of them but someone in Australia is. Is it something like this?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The song I am Australian doesn't fit all the information in this puzzle, but it contains lines such as "I am Albert Namatrija / I paint the ghostly gums", with Namatrija being an Australian painter, and these lines are supposed to represent different types of Australians. Of course, the singer isn't all of them but someone in Australia is. Is it something like this? No, it's not this kind of song (but that's a good guess). The song in the puzzle moreso personifies a place instead of representing people from that place. So if you were to hear it for the first time and didn't know the singer was referring to a place, you would assume that this verse of the song concerns only people, not places. The first part of the verse is the only part of the song that directly refers to a person by name, and it is meant only as a reference to that one person, not a place. The second part of the verse mentions a name that, if said alone, would not refer to a specific place but would almost certainly refer to a person. But the name isn't said alone, there is another word sung in the same verse that is meant to be connected with the name. When the other word and the name are put together, it makes a near match to the name of a town (if you've ever heard the name of the town). Otherwise, when these words are put together you'd think the singer was talking about a friend.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

El (something)? El Dorado?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So one of the words is a person's name, and the other word implies that if the other word is a person, then that person had a problem with substance use? And these two words together sound quite like the name of a town?
If so, then, taken on its own, does the word which is not a name imply substance use? Some kind of problem? Intoxication?
Does it only imply substance use when it is used with a word that could denote a person?
Do the two words appear together in the verse? Are they separated by one or more other words?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

El (something)? El Dorado? No
So one of the words is a person's name, and the other word implies that if the other word is a person, then that person had a problem with substance use? Yes, this is the case in the lyric. The name is used in a slightly different way in the song than in actuality, and due to this difference in implies substance use
And these two words together sound quite like the name of a town? Yes, if the words weren't separated they would be the same name as a town
If so, then, taken on its own, does the word which is not a name imply substance use? It can imply this, yes. It could imply other things as well, but when mentioned in connection with a person it almost always implies substance use
Some kind of problem? Yes Intoxication? Well not this term but you're on the right track
Does it only imply substance use when it is used with a word that could denote a person? This is likely the most common implication when the word is associated with a person
Do the two words appear together in the verse? Yes Are they separated by one or more other words? Yes, separated in such a way that unless you had heard of this town you would assume that the singer is talking about a person
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 171
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 4:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, I love this puzzle so far, _especially_ the constraint that the only questions allowed are based on the lyrics of the song.It makes for a very challenging and entertaining puzzle IMO.

That being said, you allowed a question about Whether a man sings the song. I just want to verify that your answer is "No" and not "Noish" ... is that correct? I only want to verify this because IMO it's not a 50/50 shot as to which sex sings this, unless I have an FA (I think the majority of mass-produced songs feature male singers).

Ok, so the person #1 .. a music producer? another musician? A studio engineer? Another singer?

Again, with person #1 - you said that some people could interpret this person to be an historical figure. Sorry that I'm not clear on this, but are the people who interpret it this way simply wrong, and the proper interpretation of the song is that the person referred to is still breathing?
I'm confused then as to why you referred to he or she as an historical figure ... would people who interpreted this person as a current living person still use the "historic" label? When you refer to the possible interpretation as to this person being from the 13th or 14th century, does this strictly have to do with coincidentally identical names? Are the people who have this latter interpretation simply wrong? You also mentioned that this person's name is related to some political event. Is this purely a coincidence because the name happens to be the same? Or should this last question refer to person #2?


In case this a "legal" question, what percentage of people in English speaking countries would know the town name that is used for the #2 trick? less than 5%? Less than 20%? More?

Is the town in question outside the USA and the UK?

Does the song mention the means of travel between these locations?
If mentioned: Is it by car? train? walking? Air plane?

Does the chorus also refer to travelling?

As far as the verses being difficult to understand, do you mean in a semantic sense? or in a "I can't make out what the words" sense?

The #2 name: Does the part of the town used as a name have one syllable? Two syllables? more?.

Does the second part of the town name (used as a way to describe substance abuse) have one syllable? Two syllables? more?
Not an adjective, so is it used as a noun? adverb?
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 225
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In reference #2, does the singer play on the name of the town?
Is the name of the town (as it appears on a map) made up of 1. a name and 2. a word which makes sense in its own right?
If so, is word 2. an English word? Is it a translation of a foreign word?
In personifying the town, does the singer address the town?
Make the name (word 1) the subject of a verb (word 2)?
Use word 2 to describe word 1?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 5:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, I love this puzzle so far, _especially_ the constraint that the only questions allowed are based on the lyrics of the song.It makes for a very challenging and entertaining puzzle IMO.
Glad you are enjoying it! If it goes well enough I already have several more ready.

That being said, you allowed a question about Whether a man sings the song. I just want to verify that your answer is "No" and not "Noish" ... is that correct? I only want to verify this because IMO it's not a 50/50 shot as to which sex sings this, unless I have an FA (I think the majority of mass-produced songs feature male singers). The answer is "no", and I suppose it's not quite 50/50 since it could be a group of men and women singing together. This song is sung only by one female.

Ok, so the person #1 .. a music producer? another musician? A studio engineer? This one. He did other things as well, but at the time of the song's release this was what he would have been known for. Another singer? No

Again, with person #1 - you said that some people could interpret this person to be an historical figure. Sorry that I'm not clear on this, but are the people who interpret it this way simply wrong, and the proper interpretation of the song is that the person referred to is still breathing?
I'm confused then as to why you referred to he or she as an historical figure ... would people who interpreted this person as a current living person still use the "historic" label? When you refer to the possible interpretation as to this person being from the 13th or 14th century, does this strictly have to do with coincidentally identical names? Are the people who have this latter interpretation simply wrong? Good q's, and I'll gladly clarify...when the name is mentioned in the song, a listener would assume that it is a person connected with the overall subject of the song (travel). Since there is no description of the person in the song, a listener would assume that this person needs no introduction to those familiar with travel. So a listener who had never heard the name could think two possible things:

- This is a person with obvious fame among certain travel circles today, so it's someone who will be noted in future historical references

or...

- This is a person from history who is known for something related to travel (of a certain kind, see below). I've never heard of the person, but there was a time in history when many people became known for this specific travel subject. The most common historical period for this would likely be 1300's-1500's. So the singer is either comparing a modern day person to this historical person, or she's wishing that this historical person was still alive so she could travel with this person.



You also mentioned that this person's name is related to some political event. Not this person, the other person
Is this purely a coincidence because the name happens to be the same? Or should this last question refer to person #2? It's coincidental. The town and the political person share a common name but they are in no way related


In case this a "legal" question, what percentage of people in English speaking countries would know the town name that is used for the #2 trick? less than 5%? Less than 20%? More? Wow, tough to say. I was in my late 30's before I heard of it, and that's because I decided to finally look up the lyrics of this song which I've always liked for the chorus. My guess is less than 5%.

Is the town in question outside the USA and the UK? Yes

Does the song mention the means of travel between these locations? YES - good q!
If mentioned: Is it by car? train? walking? Air plane? None of these (but it's important)

Does the chorus also refer to travelling? Yes, that's all the chorus refers to

As far as the verses being difficult to understand, do you mean in a semantic sense? Not so much, but...or in a "I can't make out what the words" sense?...this! The chorus is very easy to make out, but the verses extremely difficult

The #2 name: Does the part of the town used as a name have one syllable? Two syllables? more?. Hmmmm...can't say. Try another approach.

Does the second part of the town name (used as a way to describe substance abuse) have one syllable? Two syllables? more? Same as above
Not an adjective, so is it used as a noun? Yes adverb? No

In reference #2, does the singer play on the name of the town? In a way she does, yes
Is the name of the town (as it appears on a map) made up of 1. a name and 2. a word which makes sense in its own right? Yes
If so, is word 2. an English word? Yes
Is it a translation of a foreign word? No
In personifying the town, does the singer address the town? No
Make the name (word 1) the subject of a verb (word 2)? No...it's "name" and "noun"
Use word 2 to describe word 1? No - however, the use of the 2nd word as a noun does describe word 1
Jane (Jane)
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Post Number: 230
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is reference #2 "[name] the [noun]"?
"[Name] of the [noun]"?
"[Name] is a [noun]"?
"[Name] with his [noun]"?

And is the actual name of the town as it would appear on a map [Name][Noun]?
[Noun][Name]?
Are there any other words in the name of the town, e.g. St? La? Le? De?
Is it OK to ask questions like this? If I know the structure I can try to apply lateral logic to the actual name....

Is the method of travelling by boat?
Was the particular type of travelling exploration?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2012 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The reason you can't ask about the number of syllables: Out of bounds for the rules of the puzzle? When you concatenate the "name" part as sung and the "noun/abuse" part" as sung, the syllables don't add up to be the number of syllables in the actual town name?

Ahh ok, so it is a sailing journey (Man I love small-boat sailing)?
Does the chorus itself also refer to travel?
Does the chorus mention the means of transportation?

The locations mentioned in the song, are they all contained in a single country? A single continent?

Sorry if asked before, but is the song
metaphorical?

When interpreted correctly, is the subject of the song that of an actual event?

Is there a narrator in the song lyrics? If so, is the narrator (not necessarily the singer because I can't ask that) a participant in the events of the song? (Sorry I don't remember the proper literary terminology, so if you prefer, I could ask these questions in a different way:

Do the song lyrics use the word "I"? "We"?

Does the song actually describe a traveller? A group of travellers?

Are the lyrics written in a straightforward style (as in "I've been everywhere man" by Johhny Cash, or perhaps something by Blondie or Britney Spears), or in a style that requires some "reading between the lines" (as in most "Steely Dan" songs)?

Part of my motive is trying to deduce the genre of the song here - punk, teeny-bopper, serious ballad, top 40, folk, etc. But I think that according to your rules, I can't ask that directly, and I won't. I love the concept of trying to indirectly answer these questions for myself by only asking about the information actually contained in the song itself.

Is that the idea you had in mind with this kind of puzzle? If so, I think it's a good one .. it's delightfully baffling to not being able to directly ask certain questions which would narrow things down.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 1:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is reference #2 "[name] the [noun]"?
"[Name] of the [noun]"?
"[Name] is a [noun]"?
"[Name] with his [noun]"?
It's none of these. It's [name], then some words, and then [noun]

And is the actual name of the town as it would appear on a map [Name][Noun]? Yes
[Noun][Name]? No
Are there any other words in the name of the town, e.g. St? La? Le? De? No
Is it OK to ask questions like this? If I know the structure I can try to apply lateral logic to the actual name....You can ask any question that you want. If it's not "legal", I'll let you know

Is the method of travelling by boat? YES
Was the particular type of travelling exploration? Yes, this is part of the assumption about reference #1

The reason you can't ask about the number of syllables: Out of bounds for the rules of the puzzle? Yes, you'll find out by another method soon enough
When you concatenate the "name" part as sung and the "noun/abuse" part" as sung, the syllables don't add up to be the number of syllables in the actual town name? The words used in the song are the same words in the town's name, but the song does not put the words next to each other

Ahh ok, so it is a sailing journey (Man I love small-boat sailing)? Yes
Does the chorus itself also refer to travel? Yes, this is all that the chorus refers to
Does the chorus mention the means of transportation? Not directly, but it is implied

The locations mentioned in the song, are they all contained in a single country? A single continent?
No, multiple countries and continents
Sorry if asked before, but is the songs
metaphorical? No, doesn't appear to be

When interpreted correctly, is the subject of the song that of an actual event? No, the sense of the song is that the singer would like to do something, just hasn't done it yet

Is there a narrator in the song lyrics? Not this kind of song, but read on...If so, is the narrator (not necessarily the singer because I can't ask that) a participant in the events of the song? (Sorry I don't remember the proper literary terminology, so if you prefer, I could ask these questions in a different way:
The singer is the one who intends to travel
Do the song lyrics use the word "I"? No, but..."We"?...is used several times!

Does the song actually describe a traveller? No A group of travellers? No

Are the lyrics written in a straightforward style (as in "I've been everywhere man" by Johhny Cash, or perhaps something by Blondie or Britney Spears), or in a style that requires some "reading between the lines" (as in most "Steely Dan" songs)? It is very straightforward, besides being hard to make out exactly what the lyrics are

Part of my motive is trying to deduce the genre of the song here - punk, teeny-bopper, serious ballad, top 40, folk, etc. But I think that according to your rules, I can't ask that directly, and I won't. I love the concept of trying to indirectly answer these questions for myself by only asking about the information actually contained in the song itself.

Is that the idea you had in mind with this kind of puzzle? If so, I think it's a good one .. it's delightfully baffling to not being able to directly ask certain questions which would narrow things down. Yes, this is progressing pretty much as I had hoped. There are still some other ways that you can approach it without knowing the style of song. It is possible that, while everyone who participates in this puzzle has probably heard this song multiple times, no one knew what the "reference" verse was about, and likely didn't even realize that two names of people were mentioned.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 2:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a mondegreen relevant? Or are the lyrics understood correctly?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 3:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a mondegreen relevant? Or are the lyrics understood correctly? The false assumptions only apply if the listener correctly hears (or reads) the lyrics
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild guess: is it a Russian town involved?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild guess: is it a Russian town involved?

hehe I'm thinking along the same lines but I don't know why...

but Ix-ies answer(s) will hopefully clarify.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the town on an island? By the sea?
Is it in Europe? Asia? Australasia? Africa? North America? South America?
Is it generally considered an exotic place?
Is it a place often visited by travellers today?
Was it a place often visited by travellers at the time the song was released?
Is it a beautiful place?
Is it just one of the places mentioned in the song?
Does it have any significance other than that the way its name is used gives rise to false assumption #2?

Is it somewhere the singer suggests she has been?
Would like to go?
Is going to go?
Does the song as a whole describe a journey?
If so, a journey the singer wants to make?
Intends to make? Has made?

Is "we" the singer and someone particular?
The singer and anyone who is listening and feels like coming along?
Is the song addressed to someone? Does she use "you" as well?

Does the noun in reference #2, taken on its own in the sense of the false assumption, signify a state of intoxication?
A habit?
One or more substances?
A state of dependency?
A person who uses substances?
Does it imply a particular substance?

In reference #1, does she acknowledge the person?
Does she say "thanks to" or something similar?
Does this person form part of "we"?
Does she give any information about the person?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why do I think Jane's post would also work well as a rap?.. In fact we could call the band "Jane's Post".
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Why do I think Jane's post would also work well as a rap?.. In fact we could call the band "Jane's Post".
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 7:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's an awesome name for a band. Let's do it!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the town on an island? No By the sea? Yes
Is it in Europe? Asia? Australasia? Africa? North America? South America? None of these
Is it generally considered an exotic place? No
Is it a place often visited by travellers today? No
Was it a place often visited by travellers at the time the song was released? No
Is it a beautiful place? No
Is it just one of the places mentioned in the song? Yes
Does it have any significance other than that the way its name is used gives rise to false assumption #2? No

Is it somewhere the singer suggests she has been? Yes
Would like to go? She doesn't say, but she indicates that she has been there, or may be there now
Is going to go? Maybe, it is possible that the lyrics indicate she will visit the place, but will stay for a limited time
Does the song as a whole describe a journey? Somewhat, yes
If so, a journey the singer wants to make? Yes, some of the lyrics indicate this
Intends to make? Certainly
Has made? No, she hasn't yet made the journey

Is "we" the singer and someone particular? Yes, although she never identifies who the other person, or persons, is/are
The singer and anyone who is listening and feels like coming along? Yes, the listener may feel this way
Is the song addressed to someone? Yes, but never says who Does she use "you" as well? No, just "we"

Does the noun in reference #2, taken on its own in the sense of the false assumption, signify a state of intoxication? Yes
A habit? Yes
One or more substances? Possibly, yes
A state of dependency? YES! The noun is "Depedency"! Nice job!
A person who uses substances? Yes
Does it imply a particular substance? No

In reference #1, does she acknowledge the person? No
Does she say "thanks to" or something similar? No
Does this person form part of "we"? No
Does she give any information about the person? She gives the person's location, which indicates something about the person which leads to the false assumption

NOTE: At this point, it may be tempting to Google a song with "Dependency" in it, and if you do that you'll likely determine this song. Feel free to do so, but in all likelihood that will tell you everything you need to know. If you'd like to try to determine the song without Google's help it will be very possible to do, as many recent questions are providing helpful information.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2012 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am happy to blunder on without Google

I have never heard of a town with Dependency in its name, though. It might take a while to guess. Is it in Antarctica?
Is it at the North Pole?
Is it a real town?
Is it on the moon?
Is its name "[Name]_ Dependency"?
Or "[Name]dependency"?

In the words in between [Name] and "dependency", does the singer use "you"? "Your"?

In reference #1, does she give an actual location? If so, somewhere that could be found on a map?
Does she give a metaphorical location?
Does she imply the person is dead?
In her heart? Her memories? Her prayers? Her dreams?
Does she intend to give the person's location?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 1:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I sta i soliarit with Ja, I hav rmovd th offig lttrs from my kboar


But seriously, huh? Could some actually pronounce the last part of the town's name as "dependency"??
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 3:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild guess: is it a Russian town involved? No

I have never heard of a town with Dependency in its name, though. i doubt many people have heard of it. It will be interesting to see if anyone who participates in this puzzles has heard of it, or even knows that it's in a lyric of this song
It might take a while to guess. Is it in Antarctica? Indeed it is, yes!
Is it at the North Pole? No
Is it a real town? Yes - it's actually a small area referred to as a town
Is it on the moon? No
Is its name "[Name]_ Dependency"? Yes (weird, huh?
Or "[Name]dependency"? So no

In the words in between [Name] and "dependency", does the singer use "you"? "Your"? No

In reference #1, does she give an actual location? A kind of location, yes, but not...somewhere that could be found on a map?...this, it's much more specific than this.
Does she give a metaphorical location? In a way, yes - she describes where the person would be located (or is currently located), and a listener would make an assumption about the location based on what they think the person does
Does she imply the person is dead? No, not at all
In her heart? Her memories? Her prayers? Her dreams? No
Does she intend to give the person's location?
She gives his name and then the location

But seriously, huh? Could some actually pronounce the last part of the town's name as "dependency"?? Yes, pronounced the same as in "That person's in bad shape, they have a chemical dependency.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I deliberately didn't write Antarctica before because I thought there was no point! More lateral puzzles should be set in Antarctica, I think

Does she say "[Name] in a/the state of Dependency"?
Would the name of the town as written on an envelope be "[Name], Dependency"?

In reference #1, does she say that the person is with her?
When you say a listener would make an assumption about the location based on what they think the person does, by "what they think the person does", do you mean exploring? Travelling?
Do the listeners who make the false assumption hear the name, fail to recognise it as a contemporary person in the music industry and assume because the song is about travelling the person must be either a contemporary or historical traveller/explorer, and then assume that since the person is an explorer, the place the singer is describing is [insert assumption]?
Is this the order of assumptions?

Is it correct to assume that the singer doesn't actually name a place with a proper noun?
Does she use a pronoun? e.g. here? there?
Does she use a relative clause?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The only place in Antarctica with "dependency" in its name I can think of is Ross Dependency .. is this the place refered to in the song?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oh yes, "Ross and his dependency" .. is it that song?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I deliberately didn't write Antarctica before because I thought there was no point! More lateral puzzles should be set in Antarctica, I think
Well you can never assume anything in these puzzles, can you? Maybe your suggestion about Antarctica will inspire some new puzzles...


Does she say "[Name] in a/the state of Dependency"? No (see below)
Would the name of the town as written on an envelope be "[Name], Dependency"? Yes, but no comma

In reference #1, does she say that the person is with her? No, the person is not yet with her
When you say a listener would make an assumption about the location based on what they think the person does, by "what they think the person does", do you mean exploring? No, not likely, but...Travelling?...yes, travelling by boat/ship
Do the listeners who make the false assumption hear the name, fail to recognise it as a contemporary person in the music industry and assume because the song is about travelling the person must be either a contemporary or historical traveller/explorer, and then assume that since the person is an explorer, the place the singer is describing is [insert assumption]? Yes, exactly!
Is this the order of assumptions? Yes

Is it correct to assume that the singer doesn't actually name a place with a proper noun? Right, she names a place where the person would be located but she doesn't use a proper noun (there isn't really a proper noun that she could use)
Does she use a pronoun? e.g. here? there? No, she uses a noun for it
Does she use a relative clause? No
The only place in Antarctica with "dependency" in its name I can think of is Ross Dependency .. is this the place refered to in the song? Yes!
oh yes, "Ross and his dependency" .. is it that song? Yes, it's that song!

The line in the song that leads to the assumption includes the words "...Ross and his dependency." The song is referring to a small area in Antarctica called Ross Dependency, which has a population of around 80 people during the warmest part of the year, and about 30 people in the colder parts. The population lives in green buildings and is made up of military personnel and scientists. This clears up Assumption #1, so now only #2 remains...

So, Sundowner, I'm curious - from the first time (or first few times) you heard that song, did you know that's what the lyrics were or did you have to see the lyrics to realize it?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have to admit, after all the admonishments, not even knowing the song, I did a bad thing.

I googled :-(

I feel so ashamed :-(

I will have to listen to the song now to see if I can hear the lyrics, but it makes sense, given that {sound of aiplane over head drowning out what I'm saying} , I could see it being difficult.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So had you ever heard the song before? And when you listen to it now, can you make out what's being sung in this verse?

Don't be ashamed, more puzzles like this are soon to come!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are penguins involved????? :-)

*loves penguins*

*saw Magellanic penguins at the San Francisco Zoo yesterday, but Magellanic penguins are not Antarctic penguins*
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are penguins involved????? :-)
No, not in this case anyway
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At least you had the guts to own up to it, Beachbum. That can't have been easy!

"Ross and his dependency". Of course. I think it is safe to say I haven't heard the song, or the verses at least.

Does she use some sailing/boat terminology to say where the person is? e.g. at the helm?
Does the noun form part of a phrase?
If so, does the phrase contain a preposition?

Is the noun a noun which is usually used to describe a tangible thing? e.g. part of a boat? an intangible thing? e.g. at the beginning?

If the person is "not yet" with her, does that mean that the reference implies that he will be?
Imminently? Soon? At a particular point in the future? At some unspecified time in the future? After she dies?
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Penguins will be involved in my forthcoming Antarctic-themed puzzle.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Ross and his dependency". Of course. I think it is safe to say I haven't heard the song, or the verses at least. Hmmmm...maybe not as safe to say as you think, we'll see. I'm guessing that at some point you have heard this song, but I could be wrong.

Does she use some sailing/boat terminology to say where the person is? e.g. at the helm? Yes! She says that he is (or will be) "at the wheel."
Does the noun form part of a phrase? Yes, but now you know what the phrase is
If so, does the phrase contain a preposition?
Yes, but you know what that is as well
Is the noun a noun which is usually used to describe a tangible thing? e.g. part of a boat? an intangible thing? e.g. at the beginning? Yes, but you know it too

If the person is "not yet" with her, does that mean that the reference implies that he will be? Not so much that he "will" be, but that he "can" be
Imminently? Soon? At a particular point in the future? At some unspecified time in the future? This one After she dies? No, because she is one of the "we" in the lyric

See? I knew that this would spawn some new puzzles!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hurrah! penguin puzzle! *looks forward to it*
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't help but be intrigued by why the verses of this song are so unintelligible. Might I be permitted to ask a few questions on the subject, if it's not just because she sings really fast?

Does it sound like she is talking about a journey she and the unidentified other person/people in "we" could make?
Is it a hypothetical journey?
In saying X is at the wheel, does that imply that he is coming along for the journey?
Are they going to sail round the world?

Is the idea something vaguely along the lines of "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to pack up our lives and sail round the world? We could go here, and here, and here, and maybe do some things, and X would be the captain and it would be really cool"

If this is anything like it, would X be at the wheel for the entire journey?
Just for part of it?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I can't help but be intrigued by why the verses of this song are so unintelligible. Well, the song is sung in English, but you know how someone with a strong accent speaks English, and even though you are hearing English it's still hard to understand? And...the other places in the song don't have names as obscure as "Ross Dependency", but many of them are not common places that you'd hear about for travel. Just some helpful info...
Might I be permitted to ask a few questions on the subject, if it's not just because she sings really fast? Sure. And she doesn't sing fast at all...

Does it sound like she is talking about a journey she and the unidentified other person/people in "we" could make? Yes, or maybe even that some of "we" are currently on the journey
Is it a hypothetical journey? It could also be this
In saying X is at the wheel, does that imply that he is coming along for the journey? Yes
Are they going to sail round the world? Well she doesn't say this, but based on the number of places in the lyrics the journey would cover a lot of the world

Is the idea something vaguely along the lines of "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to pack up our lives and sail round the world? We could go here, and here, and here, and maybe do some things, and X would be the captain and it would be really cool" Yes, that's a great way of describing the song! The lyrics do not mention the idea of doing anything at these places, they simply list them as if it were an itenerary.

If this is anything like it, would X be at the wheel for the entire journey?
Just for part of it? Well, X isn't mentioned until the final verse, just before the chorus is repeated and the song ends, so either the singer has meant that X could be at the wheel all along, or it's just occurred to her that X could be at the wheel for all or part of the journey.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I had heard the chorus, but didn't know who the singer was (though I had heard other, more modern songs of hers and knew who she is), and didn't know any of the other lyrics. I certainly wouldn't have caught obscure snippets like 'Ross and his dependency"!

So I'm glad I Googled it, otherwise I never would have guessed. I still can't make out most of the lyrics now that I'm trying to.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she sing underwater? Does she sing extremely slowly?

I'm not sure what to ask now. What do I need to find out?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she sing underwater? Does she sing extremely slowly? No - the words are in English, but her English is spoken with a foreign accent so some of the everyday words she uses are hard to understand in the song. Plus, the vocals are only slightly louder than the instruments, which are heavily featured in this artist's music, and she sings them almost at a whisper so it is difficult to make out what she is saying. In addition, most of the places mentioned in the lyrics are uncommon and have names that are difficult to pronounce anyway (to someone who isn't familiar with the names). The best way to understand why it's hard to catch the lyrics is to listen to the song. So Jane if you can identify the title of the song I'll fill in the rest of the blanks and we'll be done!
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do I have to identify the title of the song through questioning?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "Into the West" relevant? *LotR-ness comes to the fore after penguin-excitedness has been dealt with by promise of penguin puzzle*
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So had you ever heard the song before? And when you listen to it now, can you make out what's being sung in this verse?

Don't be ashamed, more puzzles like this are soon to come!


I know, but I feel so... unclean ....

And I just listened on Youtube and I of course I've heard the song, and I have to tell you, for me it was not only the verses (forget that!) but even the chorus I got wrong! And the title(?!)
whoah!

After the spoiler I can give you my mis-interpreation of another one of her choruses, which although I thought was funny,
although I'm not sure my date thought so at the time.

(Actually this is inspiring me to post a similar puzzle with the same rules)
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You can't expect anyone to follow your rules. Not after what you did...
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 12:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blechh, Sorry.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 1:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "Into the West" relevant? Not that I know of

Do I have to identify the title of the song through questioning? I won't make it that difficult. Here are some clues about the song, based on what we (you) have found out:

- The singer is a woman who sings in English but with a noticeable foreign accent
- The chorus has very few words and deals only with travelling by boat
- The verses are difficult to understand with regards to the words, but they are basically a list of places that the singer is saying she, and "we", can travel from and to. She also gives directions, like travelling "north to the south"
- In the final verse she talks about travelling with someone "at the wheel"; the person is actually a sound engineer who made it possible to record the song, but the lyrics make it sound as if this person is a boat captain from either the era of exploration or very recent times
- Unless a person is very familiar with global geography, listeners won't understand much of the verses, but the simple chorus made the song famous

I'll post a link to the video if you still can't think of a song that fits this description
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 4:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow. When I first heard this song (and a couple of others) I just dismissed it as bland new-age sugar.

Now that I listened to it again, whoah! All I can say is it's very unique! I actually wonder if the the lyrics are deliberately undecipherable. This is wacky genius stuff, copied to my thumb drive as we speak,
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For me, as a non-native speaker it did never occur that she has a foreign accent. I always thought that it's standard British English what she is singing.

About the lyrics: I don't remember exactly but I think I noticed that a lot of places was mentioned, some of them I knew, most of them I did not. So I looked them up, just out of curiousity. Ross Dependency I came across on a map by chance, and only then I realized that it might be what she had in mind with Ross and his dependency.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Link, please!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

***** SPOILER *****


Here is a great one with pictures of each place named in the song plus the lyrics on-screen:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLRGk-gQVwE
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When I said "Is 'Into the West' relevant, I was making a vague hint toward Enya. Guess you missed it, lol.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Indeed I did miss it, sorry about that!
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice Youtube link! BTW I always heard the chorus as "Say the word, say the word, say the word", and never paid attention to the verses at all, so I guess it's just as well I gave up and googled. Promise not to be so quick to let my fingers do the walking next time though.

Personally, the syrupy pop / new-age genre doesn't work for me as a sailing a song ... a song about a voyage, yes, but there's not much a about sailing in it. Personally I wouldn't be playing it on a keelboat. On the plus side, I love the rhyming scheme!... And now I better move on to your next puzzle to get rid of this song-worm... it was nice for a while...Nice and quirky though, and based from what I've read there are actually three references to the recording studio, not just two
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting. Of course the two main references are to Rob Dickins who helped get the song recorded and released. The "Ross" reference is a veiled reference to another music producer named Ross who worked for the music company but did not assist with this song's production. If you look up common questions that have been asked about this song, you'll find that many people want to know who the "famous Captain Rob Dickins" is. Many assume he lived around the time of Columbus and other explorers and they want to know why they've never heard of him in history books.
Jane (Jane)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I love the way people wonder why they haven't read about him in history books, rather than wondering why they have assumed he is an explorer.
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2012 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I heard that Orinoco was the original name of the studio. Anyway, off to a sailing club to see if someone needs crew...kind of fluky airs today but just want to get out on the water .. Suffice it to say, although catchy, this one sucks as a sailing song. There's no adrenaline rush in it at all. More of a cruse ship song I think ;-)

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