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Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 1057
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Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 8:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The team won less matches than any other team in the division. Because of this, they can wear a star on their shirts now.

Explain this.


It's soo Germany...
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant what kind of team? Sports? Football?

Is the star a sponsor's logo? Do other teams have the same star on their shirts?

Did they lose the season and go down one division? Is this star worn by teams in the lower division?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Scudetto relevant? Or at least OTRT?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2012 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Johndar
Relevant what kind of team? Sports? Football? Yes, it's football (soccer).
Is the star a sponsor's logo? No. Do other teams have the same star on their shirts? {Some have it, but not all.}
Did they lose the season and go down one division? Yes. Is this star worn by teams in the lower division? It is worn by some, but not by all. If you're asking whether it is a logo or sign for this division, then no.

Rbruma
Scudetto relevant? Or at least OTRT? Yes, OTRT, but it's not Italy.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Bundesliga relevant? Does the star commemorate an achievement? Winning a competition for example? Is the star awarded to a different team each year? Do teams take it in turns ?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365
Is the Bundesliga relevant? Yes. Does the star commemorate an achievement? Yes. Winning a competition for example? Yes. Is the star awarded to a different team each year? No. Do teams take it in turns? No.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 3:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they performed poorly in the league but won a cup competition? or is it some other competition like a 'fair play' award for fewest red cards?

Longshot but is fan behaviour relevant?

I imagine this is fairly googleable so I'll try to resist.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, July 27, 2012 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a league with multiple tournament levels? For example, the top X number of teams play in the top tier tournament, and the rest play in a secondary tournament? Did performing poorly in the regular season allow them to play in the secondary tournament, which they won?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2012 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365
So they performed poorly in the league but won a cup competition? Yes(ish), but beware of FA. or is it some other competition like a 'fair play' award for fewest red cards? No.

Longshot but is fan behaviour relevant? No.

I imagine this is fairly googleable so I'll try to resist. I'm not sure. The club's home page has a tiny hint, but it's in German.

Noel
Is it a league with multiple tournament levels? No. For example, the top X number of teams play in the top tier tournament, and the rest play in a secondary tournament? No, nothing like that. Did performing poorly in the regular season allow them to play in the secondary tournament, which they won? No.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's soo Germany... Does this mean some German stereotype applies? efficiency?

Did the team finish bottom of the Bundesliga? Did they get relegated? Would getting this star be viewed as a triumph? Did the club award it to itself? or was it awarded by the German Football Association or league?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365
It's soo Germany... Does this mean some German stereotype applies? Yes. (can be argued, though) efficiency? But definitely not this.

Did the team finish bottom of the Bundesliga? Of the second league, yes. Did they get relegated? Yes. Would getting this star be viewed as a triumph? Yes. Did the club award it to itself? No. or was it awarded by the German Football Association or league? Yes.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had they not finished bottom would they have received the star? Did they do something selfless? that benefited german football?

Taking German stereotypes and football together I semi-jokingly ask if winning penalty shoot outs is relevant?

Did the award relate to something they did on the field of play? or was it more to do with how the club is run
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365
Had they not finished bottom would they have received the star? No-ish. Needs investigation. Did they do something selfless? No. that benefited german football? Not really.

Taking German stereotypes and football together I semi-jokingly ask if winning penalty shoot outs is relevant? No, not this time. (and if I remember correctly, Chelsea won the shoot out ..?)

Did the award relate to something they did on the field of play? Yes. or was it more to do with how the club is run? No.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Monday, July 30, 2012 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relevant German stereotype bureaucracy? Sticking to rules even where they make no sense? Making rules which are not too sensible? Making a lot of rules in general?

Is it relevant they are facing weaker teams in the lower league so it is easier for them to accomplish a certain task? (For example, if a star is awarded for the team which scored more goals than any other in the same season across all leagues - this would be easier if you are a strong team in a lower league rather than a weak team one league above.)

Is the star awarded for winning matches? Not losing matches? Scoring goals? Not allowing your opponents to score goals?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 7:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr -- Hi Mark, nice to see you back.
Is the relevant German stereotype bureaucracy? Yes. Sticking to rules even where they make no sense? Making rules which are not too sensible? Making a lot of rules in general? Maybe a little bit of everything.

Is it relevant they are facing weaker teams in the lower league so it is easier for them to accomplish a certain task? (For example, if a star is awarded for the team which scored more goals than any other in the same season across all leagues - this would be easier if you are a strong team in a lower league rather than a weak team one league above.) No. The star is not for something they will achieve this year in the lower division but for something they achieved before.

Is the star awarded for winning matches? Yes. Not losing matches? And this. Scoring goals? And to some extent this. Not allowing your opponents to score goals? And this.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the star award relate to one season's results or is it averaged over a couple of seasons?

Was there any relevant changes to the league structure?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365
Does the star award relate to one season's results or is it averaged over a couple of seasons? To the result of one season.

Was there any relevant changes to the league structure? No, not this year. (amazingly ..)
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm I am an absolute soccer quiz nut and this is completely perplexing me. A brief summary:

-German Club FC finished bottom of the 2nd division of the german league and got relegated.
-Despite this for some bureaucratic reason they were award the right to wear a star on their jersey
-In doing so they won fewer games than any other team.
-They 'ish' won a cup competition
-Fair play or crowd behaviour are not relevant?
-How the club is run is not relevant so I'm assuming finance isn't
-This award is not handed out every year
-The award is given for winning matches
-And also not losing them

Is all of this correct?

Does goal difference have any relevance?

BTW I'm sure you know it but here's my one and only German Football joke.....

Who's the most unpopular fan at Borussia Monchengladbach?

'Give us a b.....'
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365
Hmmm I am an absolute soccer quiz nut and this is completely perplexing me. A brief summary:

-German Club FC finished bottom of the 2nd division of the german league and got relegated. Correct.
-Despite this for some bureaucratic reason they were award the right to wear a star on their jersey. Correct. (and if you replace "Despite" by "Because of" it's even more correct)
-In doing so they won fewer games than any other team. They won fewer matches than any other team and because of this they finished bottom.
-They 'ish' won a cup competition. They won a competition, really and actually, without any "ish". The "ish" meaned only that I thought there might have been a false assumption behind your question.
-Fair play or crowd behaviour are not relevant? Correct.
-How the club is run is not relevant so I'm assuming finance isn't. Correct.
-This award is not handed out every year. Hmm. I'm not going to over-complicate this. The competition used to be held every year, with different teams winning it. Once a team wins the competition, they have the right to wear the star forever. There are several more teams who have the right to wear the star.
-The award is given for winning matches. The star is given for winning the competition, to which winning matches greatly contributes.
-And also not losing them. Which also implies this.

Is all of this correct? Yes.

Does goal difference have any relevance? Could be.

Funny joke.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a domestic competition? Is it actually a football competition?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the DFB-Pokal relevant?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365
Is it a domestic competition? Yes, but possibly false assumption. Is it actually a football competition? Yes, but possibly the same false assumption.

Markobr
Is the DFB-Pokal relevant? No.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 8:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a competition between adults(18+)? Is it a under 21 competition? Are normal football rules followed?(11 players teams, etc)? Are only German teams playing? Foreign players are accepted? Relevant?

Is it, like in the cards game of Hearts, a specific rule that says that once a team loses all the matches, gets a specific distinction?

Did they get into a secondary league, but because they were coming from a superior league, they were considered "champions" of sorts?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 8:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma
Is it a competition between adults(18+)? Yes. Is it a under 21 competition? No. Are normal football rules followed? Yes. (11 players teams, etc)? Yes. Are only German teams playing? Yes. Foreign players are accepted? Yes, to some extent. Relevant? Not very much.

Is it, like in the cards game of Hearts, a specific rule that says that once a team loses all the matches, gets a specific distinction? No, nothing like this. They won this competition because they played very well.

Did they get into a secondary league, but because they were coming from a superior league, they were considered "champions" of sorts? No, but there is a grain of truth in it which deserves to be further explored.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is actually not so complicated (perhaps even not much lateral thinking involved) but there is a major false assumption behind all these questions, so I throw in a ..

RECAP

The team won a competition and because they got relegated from League Two to League Three they can make this achievement visible with a star on their shirts. They would not have been able to wear the star if they had not got relegated.

Side note: The team is F.C. Hansa Rostock (as you may have found out already). There are some photographs on the club home page where the star is clearly visible (above the club logo).

There are other teams who are wearing the star, too. There are some more teams who are also entitled to wear the star but for some reason do not.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they sent to the 3rd league because of bureaucratic details(not paying their rights to play again in the 2nd league? some administrative misdemeanors? Not having the playfield properly administrated?)

The division mentioned in the puzzle statement, is it the 2nd or the 3rd?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the reunification of Germany relevant, (with Rostock being formerly an East German team)?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the competition some sort of league within a league?

Is the fact that they are a former East German club relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martin

It's either 'Great minds think alike' or 'fools seldom differ'

We shall see
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any relevant bureaucratic/administrative restrictions about how many teams can wear the star?
If the club remain in League 2, would they also achieve the star but only cannot wear it?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma
Were they sent to the 3rd league because of bureaucratic details(not paying their rights to play again in the 2nd league? some administrative misdemeanors? Not having the playfield properly administrated?) No, they were sent to the 3rd league for playing the worst season ever since I remember, and I remember a lot.

The division mentioned in the puzzle statement, is it the 2nd or the 3rd? It is the second. (that is, they played second league 2011/12 and will play third league 2012/13)

Martinfg
Is the reunification of Germany relevant, It is somewhat relevant, but be careful. (with Rostock being formerly an East German team?) And this is relevant, too.

Peter365
Was the competition some sort of league within a league? No.
Is the fact that they are a former East German club relevant? In this case, yes. But there are also teams from West Germany who have won this star.

Redwine
Are there any relevant bureaucratic/administrative restrictions about how many teams can wear the star? No.
If the club remain in League 2, would they also achieve the star but only cannot wear it? Yes.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any rules about player's shirts which (explicitly? in effect?) forbid the use of the star? And these rules apply to the 2nd league? But not to the 3rd? Could no 2nd league team ever wear the star? Can every 3rd league team which has been awarded the star wear it?

Is the star only awarded for winning a certain competition? Is it still possible for a team to win the star?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they win the relevant competition while they were playing in East Germany? Did the unified German Football Association only get around to awarding them the star last season when in fact they probably won the competition in the 70s or 80s.

Was this a classic case of box ticking?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had they previously played in League 3? And won a competition that entitled them to wear the star, but ONLY when playing in League 3? Were they then promoted to League 2? But they weren't allowed to wear it in League 2? So getting demoted allowed them to wear the star they had earned playing in League 3 some time in the past?

More broadly: did they win the competition to earn the star in the same season they were demoted? Or did they actually earn it in a previous season?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 8:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr
Are there any rules about player's shirts which (explicitly? in effect?) forbid the use of the star? Yes. And these rules apply to the 2nd league? Yes. But not to the 3rd? Actually, it is the other way round: the rule that allows to wear the star does not apply to the second league. Could no 2nd league team ever wear the star? Correct. Can every 3rd league team which has been awarded the star wear it? Correct.

Is the star only awarded for winning a certain competition? Several competitions are considered for this star. Is it still possible for a team to win the star? Actually, yes. One of the competitions is still being held.

Peter365
Did they win the relevant competition while they were playing in East Germany? Yes. Did the unified German Football Association only get around to awarding them the star last season when in fact they probably won the competition in the 70s or 80s. No-ish. They won the competition in 1991. The star was awarded (to all teams to which it applies) in 2005. Hansa Rostock can wear the star in this season for the first time, for the reason described by Markobr.

Was this a classic case of box ticking? No. (at least I don't think so)

Noel
Had they previously played in League 3? Yes, but not relevant. And won a competition that entitled them to wear the star, but ONLY when playing in League 3? False assumption, they did not win the competition while playing in League 3. But it is true that, in effect, they can wear the star only when playing in League 3. Were they then promoted to League 2? No. (Strictly, they were promoted to League 1 in that occasion but don't let this confuse you, this is some other part of German football history.) But they weren't allowed to wear it in League 2? Right, see above. So getting demoted allowed them to wear the star they had earned playing in League 3 some time in the past? Yes, with the same false assumption. They had earned the star through some achievement in the past, but not while playing in League 3.

More broadly: did they win the competition to earn the star in the same season they were demoted? No. Or did they actually earn it in a previous season? Yes, they earned it in 1991.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Come on, finish up ..
The only thing left to explore is why the rules regarding the star are different in League 2 and League 3.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because League 3 didn't exist when the rule was made and the rule was not updated when league 3 was created?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 1:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365
Because League 3 didn't exist when the rule was made and the rule was not updated when league 3 was created? This is (while actually being true) not the reason. If League 3 did not exist still the situation was the same, only that Hansa Rostock then would play in the Regional League.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this rule valid in League 1? In Regional League? Are there any other stars that mean something else granted to League 1 and League 2 teams? Does this rule concern any other symbols than stars?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the reason for the rule that it is considered especially remarkable if a team in a lower league can win one of the competitions? Or would the star interfere with some other elements displayed on shirts of 2nd-league players? Maybe the rule about the stars is made by an institution which can't make rules for league 1 and 2? Or would need the consent of some higher level (UEFA? FIFA?), which they didn't get? Would allowing the star in higher leagues be against a contract? Maybe with sponsors?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine
Is this rule valid in League 1? No. In Regional League? Yes. Are there any other stars that mean something else granted to League 1 and League 2 teams? Yes! Does this rule concern any other symbols than stars? No.

Markobr
Is the reason for the rule that it is considered especially remarkable if a team in a lower league can win one of the competitions? No-ish. Only in the sense that they want to make visible that teams in lower leagues have their merits, too. Or would the star interfere with some other elements displayed on shirts of 2nd-league players? Yes, with other stars, possibly. Maybe the rule about the stars is made by an institution which can't make rules for league 1 and 2? Exactly! Or would need the consent of some higher level (UEFA? FIFA?), which they didn't get? No. Would allowing the star in higher leagues be against a contract? It would conflict with their own system of stars, and thus, with their self-esteem. Maybe with sponsors? No, there's still enough space for the sponsor logos.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2012 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's it, the lawyers finished it ...

SPOILER
The team won less matches than any other team in the division. Because of this, they can wear a star on their shirts now.

In 2004 the German Football League (DFL, the organization that runs Bundesliga and League Two soccer in Germany) introduced a system of championship stars for their teams. The system is called "Distinguished Champion Teams" and awards one star to all teams that won the Bundesliga at least three times, two stars for five titles, three stars for 10 titles and four stars for 20 titles. The stars have to be worn above the club logo and have to be golden. Teams that are entitled to wear stars also have to wear them.

However, only championship titles won in the Bundesliga era (since 1963) are taken into account, no championship won before, no all-German championship before 1950, no East German championship between 1950 and 1991.

As you may imagine, there were clubs which greatly liked this, and clubs which greatly disliked this and claimed to count also the other titles.

Greuther Fürth (then League Two) unilaterally began to wear three stars for their three championships of 1914, 1918 and 1921.

In response to this, the German Football Association (DFB, not to be confused with the DFL) introduced its own system of championship stars in 2005. In the version of the DFB, each team that won at least one championship, be it in Bundesliga, or pre-Bundesliga, or East Germany, or Germany before 1950, can wear one star, optionally with a number indicating the number of titles.

DFB and DFL were not able to find a compromise, and so, the DFL system continues to be applied in the first and second league, and the DFB system applies in all leagues not controlled by the DFL.

So, Hansa Rostock now can wear a star for winning the last East German championship in 1991.
Dynamo Dresden, in contrast, who won the East German championship 8 times, cannot wear any star as they're playing in League Two and do not have any Bundesliga merits.

Interestingly, the DFB star is not very popular among the clubs. Of the 18 teams that are entitled only four are actually wearing it: Hansa Rostock and Rot Weiss Erfurt (Third League) and Carl Zeiss Jena and 1. FC Magdeburg (Regional League).

Thanks and congratulations.
..and, honestly, I would not be unhappy if Hansa returns to League Two after this season, even if it is at the expense of one star.
Peter365 (Peter365)
New member
Username: Peter365

Post Number: 4217
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, August 03, 2012 - 10:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good lord that's bureaucratic alright. I remember when football used to be about fun and entertainment.

Great puzzle Sundowner. Soccer themed puzzles are always welcome .

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