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Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 329
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2012 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lou kept tapping on her arm with her finger.

Why did she do this?
Rogerchang (Rogerchang)
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Post Number: 91
Registered: 9-2012
Posted on Friday, November 30, 2012 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lou= her (arm)?= her (finger)?= she?

Human/Adult/Woman to all?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 330
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Posted on Friday, November 30, 2012 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lou= her (arm)?= her (finger)?= she? Yes, all the same.

Human/Yes AdultNo/Woman child to all?
Rogerchang (Rogerchang)
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Post Number: 92
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Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2012 - 7:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she mentally sick?

Was she thinking?

Other person involved? animal?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 331
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Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2012 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she mentally sick? No

Was she thinking?Yes!

Other person involved?Her parents animal? no
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1237
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Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2012 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something unusual about her arm? Her finger? Did she want to show something? Demonstrate something? To her parents? Try something out? Was she thinking about her arm? Her finger?

Not the DaVinci code... but some other code? Leonardo da Vinci relevant?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3568
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Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2012 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was tapping her arm some sort of aid to remembering?

was she tapping consistently or was there a significant rythmn?

was she trying to answer a question?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2012 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Fibonacci sequence relevant?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 332
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Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 3:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there something unusual about her arm? Her finger?No Did she want to show something? Yessish, but not about her arm. Demonstrate something? Yessish To her parents? Yes!Try something out? In a way Was she thinking about her arm? Her finger? No to both.

Not the DaVinci code... but some other code? Not a 'code' code, but along the lines of a means of communication. Leonardo da Vinci relevant?No
was tapping her arm some sort of aid to remembering? No

was she tapping consistently more this or was there a significant rythmn?

was she trying to answer a question?No, but somewhat OTRT.

Is the Fibonacci sequence relevant? No
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 1838
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Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she able to speak normally? To hear? See? Did she tap a specific number of times?

Was it a way of communicating?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 334
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Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 3:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she able to speak normally? Yes, for a child of her age. To save a round of questions, I will tell you - she is under 2, probably under 18 months. To hear? Yes, but there is something you might want to explore here. See? Yes Did she tap a specific number of times?No

Was it a way of communicating? Yes!
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2012 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she in a situation where her parents can't hear her (well)? Where she can't hear them (well)?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 335
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Posted on Monday, December 03, 2012 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she in a situation where her parents can't hear her (well)? Where she can't hear them (well)? No to both, but sort of OTRT.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2960
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Posted on Monday, December 03, 2012 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Toddler sign language relevant? Augmentative communication?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 337
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Posted on Monday, December 03, 2012 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Toddler sign language relevant?Yessish/yes Augmentative communication Not sure what this is, but possibly.
Doriana, I think you are closing in on the answer. Care to explore?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, December 03, 2012 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If she is under two, she probably does not have full command of spoken language yet. Is this relevant? Does the tapping allow her to communicate beyond what she is capable of saying through speech?

Did her parents teach her the tapping?

Is the tapping intended to draw attention to herself? Does the tapping make a sound? Relevant? Is she tapping to a particular rhythm? To a particular pattern?

Do her parents both have the same native language as the one that Lou is learning?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, December 03, 2012 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are her parents deaf? or one of them?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 338
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Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 4:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If she is under two, she probably does not have full command of spoken language yet. Is this relevant?True and relevant. Does the tapping allow her to communicate beyond what she is capable of saying through speech? Yes

Did her parents teach her the tapping? Yope

Is the tapping intended to draw attention to herself? Yessish - to draw attention to something she wants. Does the tapping make a sound? Relevant? Is she tapping to a particular rhythm? To a particular pattern? No to all

Do her parents both have the same native language as the one that Lou is learning? Their mother tongue, in all cases, is English. Beware FA, though.

are her parents deaf? or one of them? Neither is deaf - but explore.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 9:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Lou ever tap elsewhere on her body for a similar reason?

Does her tapping her arm have a certain meaning that her parents understand? Which could be expressed as an English phrase? After her parents notice her tapping, will she do something else to complete the communication? Will they?

Is there something relevant about Lou that means it is very important that she should be able to communicate a certain thing to her parents?

Does Lou have any kind of illness, condition or disability? Do either of her parents?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2961
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Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a deaf person involved at all? A sibling of Lou's?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 339
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Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Lou ever tap elsewhere on her body for a similar reason? n.r.

Does her tapping her arm have a certain meaning that her parents understand?Yes, tho not at first Which could be expressed as an English phrase? Yes After her parents notice her tapping, will she do something else to complete the communication? no Will they? Yes; they will give her what she wants.

Is there something relevant about Lou that means it is very important that she should be able to communicate a certain thing to her parents? DOYD of important. She no doubt thinks it is important, but in the great scheme of things, no.

Does Lou have any kind of illness, condition or disability? Do either of her parents? No to all.
Is there a deaf person involved at all? Yes, deaf people are involved. A sibling of Lou's? no.
We are dancing all around this. I could call it solved, but I am looking for the magic word, or the magic initials.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2962
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Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should we find out who the deaf people are? Are they present at the moment of the puzzle situation?

Does Lou use
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are her parents teachers of sign language?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 342
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Posted on Tuesday, December 04, 2012 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should we find out who the deaf people are?see below Are they present at the moment of the puzzle situation? No

Does Lou use
are her parents teachers of sign language? Yes!

*************SPOILER*********
Her parents are instructors in American Sign Language (ASL). Although they had made no special effort to teach Lou signs, she picked it up by watching them and her older brother. She wanted some grapes, and the tapping on the arm imitates the plucking of grapes off a stem.

Lou is a little older now - about 4 - and both she and her brother have remarkable vocabularies, and talk like 30-year-olds. Their parents attribute it to the children being "bilingual," and I agree.

Another ASL story. A missionary in Benin noticed that a young boy did not join in singing, and when she saw him 'talking' (signing) to himself, concluded that he was deaf. Then she was amazed to see that she understood him, although Benin is a francophone country, and she understood only a little French. Turned out that the schools in Benin use ASL, not French sign language, for their hering-impaired pupils. As ASL uses concepts rather than translations of words (although there is a form that does) they could communicate very well.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 2965
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Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very nice puzzle! (:

Unfortunately the forum cut off my last post, but since it's solved anyway it doesn't matter.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 05, 2012 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

excellent pu



tee hee
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excellent and very instructive puzzle!

That reminds me of some works that I read, that if you paint a tree, even if the English language people will call it a "tree", the Romanians a "copac" or the Italians an "albero", it is still a tree. (etc...)

I think the concept remains today in chinese and in the languages using Chinese alphabet (modified or not). But I'm no expert in this field.

Thanks!
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 343
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Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Glad you enjoyed it!
Some other things I've learned about sign language -

Babies can babble in it, not just deaf babies, but children like Lou and her brother.
That is, repeating nonsense syllables over and over.

There is such a thing as "signed English," which is a translation of English words and sentences, and ASL, which, as in the example above, uses concepts and has its own grammar and syntax. People who use one can usually understand the other, but think it "sounds" funny.

And there are dialects in sign language, just as in spoken language.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also, ASL and FSL (French Sign Language) share a common root, but ASL is nothing like the sign language used in Great Britain. So ASL speakers can sometimes at least partially understand FSL speakers(and vice versa) but have pretty much no idea what deaf people from other English-speaking countries are saying.

I've always found that tidbit fascinating.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, December 06, 2012 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sign language is pretty interesting indeed. What I was referring to earlier in the puzzle is another kind of sign language that is not a complete language in itself, but accompanies spoken language. It's a form of augmentative communication and it uses simple gestures for everyday concepts. Toddlers can use it to express more than they can express with spoken words, and it's also used for communicating with mentally disabled people.
At the moment I'm teaching German as a second language to a girl whom I have no common language with, so of course I use a lot of "signs" too. However, that's of course different from actual sign language.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 345
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Posted on Friday, December 07, 2012 - 1:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting, Dorianna. I have noted that this family in the puzzle use signs unconciously to accompany the spoken word, even when they speak to hearing people.

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