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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4829
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, December 20, 2012 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I overestimated the danger, until I was the one causing it.
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 89
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Posted on Friday, December 21, 2012 - 1:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you really mean over and not underestimated? Were you driving, walking, sitting, alone?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4831
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Posted on Friday, December 21, 2012 - 6:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you really mean over and not underestimated? Yes. Were you driving, Yes. walking, Yes. sitting, Sometimes. alone? No/noish.
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 97
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Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2012 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Daydreaming, Not mentally where you are physically?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4851
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 7:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Daydreaming, Not mentally where you are physically? No, nothing like that.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 545
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the danger: to yourself? To another person? To a group of other people? To animals? Inanimate objects?

Can this danger be caused while you are sitting at home? While you are at work? Can anyone cause it? Does it really cause little or no danger at all? Or still significant danger, but not as much as you thought?

Is it eating or drinking something that you considered to be very unhealthy? Smoking?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 546
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and did you overestimate the risk factor? Or how much damage would be caused if the dangerous thing came to pass? Both? Neither?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4856
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Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2012 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the danger: to yourself? Yes. To another person? Yes. To a group of other people? To animals? Inanimate objects? No to the rest.

Can this danger be caused while you are sitting at home? While you are at work? No to both. Can anyone cause it? No. Does it really cause little or no danger at all? Or still significant danger, but not as much as you thought? The danger is always small, but smaller than I thought.

Is it eating or drinking something that you considered to be very unhealthy? Smoking? No to all.

Oh, and did you overestimate the risk factor? This, no to the rest. Or how much damage would be caused if the dangerous thing came to pass? Both? Neither?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3637
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Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did this happen indoors? outdoors?

danger of falling? colliding? getting sick?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4866
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Posted on Monday, December 24, 2012 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did this happen indoors? outdoors? This.

danger of falling? colliding? This. getting sick?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3643
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is driving involved?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4874
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Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is driving involved? Yes.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3646
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Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2012 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

driving an ordinary car? on public roads?

driving a particular way?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4877
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Posted on Friday, December 28, 2012 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

driving an ordinary car? on public roads?

driving a particular way? Yes to all.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3653
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Posted on Saturday, December 29, 2012 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

above the speed limit? below? whilst on the phone? texting?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4881
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Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2012 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

above the speed limit? At or above. below? whilst on the phone? texting? No/irr.
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 550
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Posted on Tuesday, January 01, 2013 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this something that looks dangerous to an observer, but is actually fairly safe? Is it something there are PSAs about?

Does it involve signaling? Using your headlights? Pedestrians? Animals? Car windows? Or convertible tops? The radio or other distractions?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4887
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2013 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this something that looks dangerous to an observer, but is actually fairly safe? Yesish. Is it something there are PSAs about? No.

Does it involve signaling? Using your headlights? Pedestrians? This, no to the rest. Animals? Car windows? Or convertible tops? The radio or other distractions?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2013 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you the pedestrian in this scenario? The driver? Either way, are you crossing at an intersection? Are you letting the other party (car or walker) go first? Going in front of the other party?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4897
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2013 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you the pedestrian in this scenario? When i overestimated the danger, I was. The driver? When I caused the danger, yes. Either way, are you crossing at an intersection? Are you letting the other party (car or walker) go first? No to all.Going in front of the other party? Noish.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 3336
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2013 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pedestrian on the road? On the sidewalk? On the side of a road without a sidewalk? Other?

Is the driver's car on a regular road (around town, etc.)? On a high speed highway? in a driveway? in a parking lot? At an exit ramp?

Does this occur at an intersection? At a crosswalk?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2013 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pedestrian on the road? On the sidewalk? On the side of a road without a sidewalk? This. Other?

Is the driver's car on a regular road (around town, etc.)? Yesish. On a high speed highway? in a driveway? in a parking lot? At an exit ramp? No to the rest.

Does this occur at an intersection? At a crosswalk? No to both.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3677
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Posted on Wednesday, January 02, 2013 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so when you're a pedestrian, the perceived danger of a car passing you at speed when there's no sidewalk seems quite high, but when you are driving yourself the danger is less obvious?

Lighting relevant? high visibility clothing? direction? (ie pedestrian facing oncoming traffic)
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 4906
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2013 - 5:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so when you're a pedestrian, the perceived danger of a car passing you at speed when there's no sidewalk seems quite high, but when you are driving yourself the danger is less obvious? Correct.

Lighting relevant? high visibility clothing? No to both. direction? Yes. (ie pedestrian facing oncoming traffic) The pedestrian is not facing the oncoming traffic.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 3340
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2013 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So when you're a pedestrian walking the wrong way on the road (i.e. the same direction as traffic), it seems dangerous? But when you're the driver, it doesn't? Is there more to it? Is there a specific circumstance under which this is true that we need to figure out?

Or is the pedestrian standing still on the side of the road? At a bus stop?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2013 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So when you're a pedestrian walking the wrong way on the road (i.e. the same direction as traffic), it seems dangerous? Yes. Under the circumstances it's not the wrong way though, explore. But when you're the driver, it doesn't? Correct. Is there more to it? Yes. Is there a specific circumstance under which this is true that we need to figure out? Yes.

Or is the pedestrian standing still on the side of the road? At a bus stop? No to both. It would work standing still though. No bus stop involved.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2013 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a 1-way street?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2013 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a 1-way street? No.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2013 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it to do with hearing the car approach before seeing it, so it gives you a shock?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2013 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a bridge? A tunnel? Is it on the side of a steep hill? Is there only one shoulder beside the road?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, January 03, 2013 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it to do with hearing the car approach before seeing it, so it gives you a shock?
No.

Is it a bridge? A tunnel? No to both. Could work in some tunnels. Is it on the side of a steep hill? Yope. Is there only one shoulder beside the road? No.


*Add Your Message Here*
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 8:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific circumstance about the pedestrian? If yes: his clothing? his height? his speed?

Is the specific circumstance about the car? If yes: its speed? its look? its safety features? its equipment?

Is the specific circumstance about the surrounding? If yes: urban area? rural area? hills? forests?

Is daytime/nighttime relevant?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific circumstance about the pedestrian? If yes: his clothing? his height? his speed? Yes, but none of the above.

Is the specific circumstance about the car? If yes: its speed? its look? its safety features? its equipment? Yes, speed, no to the others.

Is the specific circumstance about the surrounding? If yes: urban area? rural area? hills? forests? Yes, rural, hill, no to the rest.

Is daytime/nighttime relevant? It's daytime, but the situation is the same at all times.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 1:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the car going fast? slow? accelerating? decelerating?

Is the car going up hill? down hill? In a flat area?

Does it matter whether this happens on a curve or not?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, another thought...
Was the car on the wrong side of the road?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the car overtaking?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the car going fast? This. slow? accelerating? decelerating? Irr.

Is the car going up hill? This. down hill? In a flat area?

Does it matter whether this happens on a curve or not? Yes.

Oh, another thought...
Was the car on the wrong side of the road? No.

is the car overtaking? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the car on a curve? Before a curve? After a curve?
Same questions for the pedestrian, please.
Can driver see the pedestrian?
Is pedestrian accompanied?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the car on a curve? This. Before a curve? After a curve?
Same questions for the pedestrian, please. In the same curve.
Can driver see the pedestrian? Yes.
Is pedestrian accompanied? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are physics laws and forces relevant?
Is it relevant if it is left curve or right curve?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are physics laws and forces relevant? Not more than in traffic in general.
Is it relevant if it is left curve or right curve? Yes.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, January 04, 2013 - 6:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok, is it a left curve? a right curve?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok, is it a left curve? No. a right curve?Yes.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the scenario is this:
- Car is driving fast up a hill on a curve bearing to the right.
- Pedestrian is walking the same direction as the car, on the same side of the road as the car.
Correct?

I guess an important question (since right vs left is important) is what type of country this is in - a country where cars drive on the right side of the road? where cards drive on the left side of the road?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Saturday, January 05, 2013 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The scenario is correct. Cars drive on the right. The reason why the pedestrian walks on the right side is not really important for the puzzle, but may help to complete the scenario. If you don't find it I'll mention it in the p01/_r.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, January 07, 2013 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that car driving fast on a right curve is more likely to go closer to the middle of the road than to its right edge, where the pedestrian is?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, January 07, 2013 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that car driving fast on a right curve is more likely to go closer to the middle of the road than to its right edge, where the pedestrian is? No, it doesn't go that fast. Assume somewhere around the speed limit. Some other aspects of driving in curves are relevant.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, January 07, 2013 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that you usually slow down to go around a curve? That you use your brake? What direction the driver is looking? What direction the steering wheel is pointing? What direction the tires are pointing?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, January 07, 2013 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that you usually slow down to go around a curve? That you use your brake? What direction the driver is looking? Yesish, no to the rest. What direction the steering wheel is pointing? What direction the tires are pointing?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the driver looking in the direction of the pedestrian? In the opposite direction? Is this usual in that type of situation?
Is the point that driver must see the pedestrian and it makes the situation safer than it appears to the pedestrian?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the driver looking in the direction of the pedestrian? This. In the opposite direction? No.Is this usual in that type of situation? Yes.
Is the point that driver must see the pedestrian and it makes the situation safer than it appears to the pedestrian? Indeed. Why?
For completeness: the reason the pedestrian is walking on the right side of the road, is because he's leading his bicycle up the hill.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the driver turning his head right? If yes, willingly? Unwillingly? Does he think about it?
Is there a connection between the movement of the arm and the movement of the head?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the driver turning his head right? Yes. If yes, willingly? This. Unwillingly? Does he think about it? Probably not much.
Is there a connection between the movement of the arm and the movement of the head? Yes, the driver is turning right and looking into the turn, as you naturally would.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I try to imagine myself driving... I would concentrate on the left side - to see if something goes from the opposite direction. But maybe I cannot recall something important. From the other hand, I also remember my dance teacher who says that when your arms turn right, your head will turn too.

Ok. So the car is driving on the right curve, up the hill. On the same curve the pedestrian is leading the bicycle up the hill, walking on the right side of the road, backwards to the coming car. From the pedestrian's point of view, the situation is dangerous. But the driver sees the pedestrian, as he naturally looks right. Is that correct so far?
Does the driver have to turn his head in order to see the pedestrian? Are there other cars visible? Is that relevant?
Is it relevant if driver is right- or left handed?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 6:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

<i>
Ok. So the car is driving on the right curve, up the hill. On the same curve the pedestrian is leading the bicycle up the hill, walking on the right side of the road, backwards to the coming car. All correct. From the pedestrian's point of view, the situation is dangerous. Yes. Explore why. Something about the pedestrian is relevant. But the driver sees the pedestrian, as he naturally looks right. Is that correct so far? Yes.
Does the driver have to turn his head in order to see the pedestrian? Not more than he needs in order to see where he's going. Are there other cars visible? No. Is that relevant? Other cars would increase both perceived and real danger.
Is it relevant if driver is right- or left handed? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what is behind the curve?
Is the pedestrian wearing something, which makes him more visible? Less visible?
Is it anything more about driver that should be revealed? Is it relevant what causes him to look right?

The way this puzzle develops increases my curiosity. I started to ask drivers in my family what direction they look in similar situation and why.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5097
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what is behind the curve? No. There's one relevant fact about the curve that hasn't been discovered.
Is the pedestrian wearing something, which makes him more visible? Less visible? No to both.
Is it anything more about driver that should be revealed? Noish. He looks at where he's going. Is it relevant what causes him to look right? No.
Another way to formulate the puzzle, would be to say I had a scrund about driving a car in this particular curve, which was cured when I did so myself.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5098
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and the scrund was caused by bicycling/walking up the same curve.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1779
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the curve particularly sharp? Can the driver see what is behind the curve?
While walking/bicycling, did you think that drivers don't see you? Are likely to crash into you? Are going way too fast?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5102
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the curve particularly sharp? Quite. Can the driver see what is behind the curve? No.
While walking/bicycling, did you think that drivers don't see you? Yope, OTRT. Are likely to crash into you? Not likely, but at more risk than they really were. Are going way too fast? Yesish.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1785
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the road narrow? While walking/bicycling, did you think that car would push you off the road? Did you think that car drivers do not consider the danger of someone walking in the same curve? Did you think people were driving carelessly there? While in fact it was not careless, because the driver can do it safely?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5105
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the road narrow? A little. While walking/bicycling, did you think that car would push you off the road? No. Did you think that car drivers do not consider the danger of someone walking in the same curve? Yes, among other things. Did you think people were driving carelessly there? Yes. While in fact it was not careless, because the driver can do it safely? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 18150
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do cars tend to cut into the bike lane while making the curve?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5107
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do cars tend to cut into the bike lane while making the curve? There's no bike lane.
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Post Number: 772
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are other senses than sight relevant?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5108
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are other senses than sight relevant? No.
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 457
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Posted on Thursday, January 17, 2013 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there some kind or warning street sign before the curve?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5115
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 6:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there some kind or warning street sign before the curve? I believe there's a "sharp curve" warning, but irr.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1807
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Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 9:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we miss something about the pedestrian? The driver? The danger perceived by pedestrian? The danger perceived by driver? The place where the situation happens?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5116
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we miss something about the pedestrian? Yes. The driver? Noish. The danger perceived by pedestrian? Yes. The danger perceived by driver? Only in relation to what the pedestrian perceives. The place where the situation happens? No, I think you have all that's needed in that regard.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1814
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant thing about the pedestrian, is it: gender? age? clothing? hobby (besides cycling)? why he is there? health? religion?
Is the pedestrian part of the group?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5126
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant thing about the pedestrian, is it: gender? age? clothing? hobby (besides cycling)? why he is there? health? religion?Age may give you a clue, no to the rest.
Is the pedestrian part of the group? What group?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1830
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Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pedestrian member of any relevant group? Is he alone?
Is the pedestrian a child? a teenager? 20-30 years old? 30-40? 40-50? 50-60? older than 60?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5130
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pedestrian member of any relevant group? You could say that. Is he alone? Yes.
Is the pedestrian a child? a teenager? This. 20-30 years old? 30-40? 40-50? 50-60? older than 60?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1833
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pedestrian a student of a school? Is that relevant?
Is he a member of a cycling club?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5133
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pedestrian a student of a school? No. Is that relevant? No.
Is he a member of a cycling club? No/irr.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 2316
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant if the pedestrian is leading his bycicle on his left (towards the road), or on his right?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5149
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 1:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant if the pedestrian is leading his bycicle on his left (towards the road), or on his right? His right usually. Sometimes he led it to his left because of this perceived danger, but it felt awkward.
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 463
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the pedestrian never driven a car before?
Had he already experienced this situation when a car was approaching?
Does the uphill slope of the curve make it easier for the driver to stop?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5155
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the pedestrian never driven a car before? Correct!
Had he already experienced this situation when a car was approaching? Not sure what you mean, can you elaborate? The pedestrian has experienced being passed by cars in this curve many times.
Does the uphill slope of the curve make it easier for the driver to stop? Irr.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 3363
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could a pedestrian without a bike (& who had never ridden a bike) have the same concern (assuming he was on the same side of the road)? Were the pedestrian's fears shaped by his bicycle riding experience? Such as his knowledge of how a bicycle behaves in similarly sharp curves?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5166
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could a pedestrian without a bike (& who had never ridden a bike) have the same concern (assuming he was on the same side of the road)? Yes. Were the pedestrian's fears shaped by his bicycle riding experience? Yope. Such as his knowledge of how a bicycle behaves in similarly sharp curves? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1859
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, had the pedestrian driven a car before, he would have perceived that situation as a smaller danger, correct?
Did the pedestrian overestimate the speed of the car? Its weight? Did the pedestrian lack knowledge about how cars behave on curves? How car drivers perceive the curve?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5206
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, had the pedestrian driven a car before, he would have perceived that situation as a smaller danger, correct? Correct.
Did the pedestrian overestimate the speed of the car? Its weight? Did the pedestrian lack knowledge about how cars behave on curves? How car drivers perceive the curve? This! No to the rest.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1865
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Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a feeling I am going around something obvious...
Did the pedestrian think the driver did not see him? that the driver underestimated the sharpness of the curve?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5207
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a feeling I am going around something obvious...
Did the pedestrian think the driver did not see him? No, but OTRT. that the driver underestimated the sharpness of the curve? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1879
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the pedestrian think that the driver:
- wrongly estimated the distance between car and pedestrian?
- wrongly estimated where pedestrian is on the curve?
- wrongly estimated the length of the curve?
Did the car driver expect pedestrian to stop? Did the pedestrian think so?
Did the pedestrian think that driver estimated everything properly? That driver saw everything well?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5214
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the pedestrian think that the driver:
- wrongly estimated the distance between car and pedestrian? No.
- wrongly estimated where pedestrian is on the curve? No.
- wrongly estimated the length of the curve? No.
Did the car driver expect pedestrian to stop? Did the pedestrian think so? No to both.
Did the pedestrian think that driver estimated everything properly? Yope, see next answer. That driver saw everything well? No.
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 3384
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Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the pedestrian think that it was difficult for the driver to tell where the passenger side of the vehicle was in relation to the edge of the road?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5216
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the pedestrian think that it was difficult for the driver to tell where the passenger side of the vehicle was in relation to the edge of the road? No, but good thought.
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 487
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the pedestrian not see the driver very well?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5238
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - 6:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could the pedestrian not see the driver very well? Correct, he could not, since he walked with his back to the traffic on his side.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1962
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Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, we have a young pedestrian, leading his bicycle on the quite sharp curve bearing to the right, up the hill, in the forest area, on the little narrow road. The pedestrian has never driven a car. On the same curve there is a car, going at or above speed limit, with considerably high speed. The pedestrian goes backwards to the car, leading his bike on the right side. Pedestrian is overestimating the danger of the collision, as he thinks that driver cannot see something well. Is this correct?

Does the pedestrian think that some car parts make him not visible to the driver? That something else makes him not visible to the driver?
Is the pedestrian further in the curve that the car? Just on the car's side? Is that relevant?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 502
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a downhill stretch of road before the uphill curve?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5292
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, we have a young pedestrian, leading his bicycle on the quite sharp curve bearing to the right, up the hill, Yes. in the forest area, No, but not really relevant. The relevant thing is that the view of what lies around the bend is limited. on the little narrow road. The pedestrian has never driven a car. On the same curve there is a car, going at or above speed limit, with considerably high speed. The pedestrian thinks the posted speed limit is too high for the circumstances, and that the driver should slow down. The driver is following the speed limit, and he thinks the speed limit is reasonable. The driver is correct, the pedestrian is wrong. The pedestrian goes backwards to the car, leading his bike on the right side. Pedestrian is overestimating the danger of the collision, as he thinks that driver cannot see something well. Is this correct? Yes.

Does the pedestrian think that some car parts make him not visible to the driver? No. That something else makes him not visible to the driver? Yesish.
Is the pedestrian further in the curve that the car? Just on the car's side? Is that relevant? The pedestrian is further alongt he curve when he thinks he cannot be seen by the driver.

Is there a downhill stretch of road before the uphill curve? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1976
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Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the pedestrian think that driver does not see him because he's behind the curve? While in fact driver can see wider, because he's on the left side of the car and looking right?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5296
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the pedestrian think that driver does not see him because he's behind the curve? While in fact driver can see wider, because he's on the left side of the car and looking right?
***SPOILER***
When I was growing up home in Norway, the nearest town was at the top of a steep hill. I usually led my bicycle up the hill, and I always thought cars overtaking me were driving dangerously fast around the curve. I had no other perspective than my own, and my perspective as a bicyclist or pedestrian was from the roadside - where I couldn't see very far around the turn.

I never drove much while living there, so I didn't really think about the driver's perspective until we went there for a road trip last fall. Then I realized that as a driver, being almost in the middle of the road, I have ample time to see any pedestrians or bicyclists.

Thanks for playing, and to Redwine for the last lateral leap.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1978
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Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thank you for a good puzzle, it was fun to play and to learn something new about driving I was totally unaware of.

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