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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4070
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

An unhappy woman in France was given 25 euros and this made two women happy. Because of this, a woman in Dallas, Texas spends 300 US dollars and becomes more unhappy than the woman in France who got 25 euros. What's going on?

This is based on 2 situations from real life
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1742
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unhappy woman in France: H?A?F?
Two women happy: H?A?F?
Is the unhappy woman one of the two women who were made happy?
A woman in Dallas: H?A?F?
Is unhappy woman in France related to the two happy women? If yes, by blood? Professionally?
Is woman in Dallas related to any of the other women in this puzzle?
Would the puzzle work if the participants were men?
Was the unhappy woman in France unhappy because of having insufficient money?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5033
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the unhappy woman one of the two who became happy? Relevant how she was given the money? Or who gave it? Was the other woman related to the first?
Was the Dallas woman one of the ones who became happy at first? Are there 2, 3 or 4 women described in the events of the puzzle statement?
was the euros given as cash? Relevant? Were the dollars spent in cash? Relevant?
Was the Dallas woman's unhappiness directly related to the money she spent? Did not get what she expected for the money? Did she expect to get anything for the money? Professions of any of the women involved relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4071
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unhappy woman in France: H?A?F?
Two women happy: H?A?F?
A woman in Dallas: H?A?F? Yes, all women in the puzzle are HAF
Is the unhappy woman one of the two women who were made happy? Yes
Is unhappy woman in France related to the two happy women? Well now you know that she is one of them, and she is related to the other one, yes If yes, by blood? Yes Professionally? No
Is woman in Dallas related to any of the other women in this puzzle? No
Would the puzzle work if the participants were men? No - it is necessary that the two women in France are women. However, it would still work (and be just as likely) if the woman in Dallas were a man. There's one element about the puzzle that makes the situation more likely if all characters are women.
Was the unhappy woman in France unhappy because of having insufficient money? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5035
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you see my questions? Did the Dallas woman know anything about the other two women at any time? Did the two women in France ever know about the Dallas woman? Is a crime committed? Exchange rates relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4072
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant how she was given the money? Not really
Or who gave it? Yes
Was the other woman related to the first? Yes
Was the Dallas woman one of the ones who became happy at first? No - good q
Are there 2, 3 or 4 women described in the events of the puzzle statement? There are 3 women in the statement: two of them involved in something that happened in France, one in something that happened in Dallas, TX
was the euros given as cash? Relevant? Yes, most likely cash and the relevance of this will probably be revealed shortly based on the line of questions
Were the dollars spent in cash? Relevant? Could have been either cash or a check, would not have been by credit or debit card
Was the Dallas woman's unhappiness directly related to the money she spent? YES
Did not get what she expected for the money? YES - the woman in Dallas became unhappy because she did not get what she expected after spending the money
Did she expect to get anything for the money? Yes
Professions of any of the women involved relevant? No
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4073
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you see my questions? Yes, I believe I answered them all but let me know if I missed any
Did the Dallas woman know anything about the other two women at any time? Yes, at one point in time she did
Did the two women in France ever know about the Dallas woman? No, probably not - Partial FA lurking here though
Is a crime committed? Yes
Exchange rates relevant? Maybe - what is relevant is to know the equivalent of the euros spent in US dollars and how this relates to the Dallas woman's unhappiness
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5036
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the Dallas woman expect to get: an object? A service? An experience? More money? Did she get anything at all?
Was the 25 euros given by a: man? woman? Organization? Relevant? Do we need to know more about the giver? Did the French women do anything relevant with the money? did anything else relevant happen to them after they got the money?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4074
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the Dallas woman expect to get: an object? Yes A service? An experience? More money? No to these
Did she get anything at all? Yes
Was the 25 euros given by a: man? woman? A woman
Organization? No
Relevant? The euros were given by one of the women in France to the other woman in France (from the puzzle statement)
Do we need to know more about the giver? Yes
Did the French women do anything relevant with the money? No, it doesn't matter what she did with it and she didn't want it in the first place
did anything else relevant happen to them after they got the money? After who got the money?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5038
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha, so one french woman gave money to another french woman, which made both of them happy, correct? Did the giver receive anything for the money? Relevant? If so, did she get what she expected? Did the Dallas woman give money to: a person? Several people? An organization? A company? Either of the French women? Did the transaction in France cause her to give the money? Or did it cause her not to get what she expected? did she expect to get something from France?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4075
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha, so one french woman gave money to another french woman, Neither of the women were French, here's part of the FA and a part of it is still lurking... which made both of them happy, correct? The giving of the money isn't what made them happy
Did the giver receive anything for the money? Yes, the giver received something but she didn't give the money until after that and the recipient didn't want the money anyway
Relevant? All that's relevant is that the woman received something
If so, did she get what she expected? Yes
Did the Dallas woman give money to: a person? Yes
Several people? An organization? A company? None of these
Either of the French women? No (and now you know that neither of them were French), but the Dallas woman is connected to one of the other women in a relevant way
Did the transaction in France cause her to give the money? Yes, but in an indirect way
Or did it cause her not to get what she expected? Yes, but again in an indirect way
did she expect to get something from France? YES (or Oui) - great q!
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5039
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Neither of the women were french: were they both American? Did the woman who received the money, give a gift to the woman who gave the money? And that woman felt she had to give something back, so she gave the 25 euros? Did the giver get an object? If so, did the Dallas woman get this object eventually?
May we name the moneygiver Lisa, the moneyreceiver Sarah and the Dallas woman Daisy, to make things easier?
Did Daisy give money to: a man? A woman? Relevant? Did this person have a direct connection to: Sarah? Lisa?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4076
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Neither of the women were french: were they both American? Yes. That's not as relevant for the woman who received the euros as for the one who gave it
Did the woman who received the money, give a gift to the woman who gave the money? Yes, in a way
And that woman felt she had to give something back, so she gave the 25 euros? Exactly
Did the giver get an object? Yes
If so, did the Dallas woman get this object eventually? NO - great q! Explore this.
May we name the moneygiver Lisa, the moneyreceiver Sarah and the Dallas woman Daisy, to make things easier? Certainly, so as a recap...

Somewhere in France, Sarah gives something to Lisa and Lisa gives 25 euros to Sarah out of thanks. This event is related to Daisy becoming unhappy after giving $300 to a person and expecting to get something that was from France.


Did Daisy give money to: a man? A woman? Relevant? She gave it to a woman. Could have been a man but not as likely for the situation.
Did this person have a direct connection to: Sarah? Lisa? Both, but a more direct (and relevant) connection to Lisa
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2065
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Daisy hope to receive the thing that Sarah gave Lisa? Did she buy it? Did she give the $300 to Lisa? Sarah? Someone else in France?

Had Lisa and Daisy known each other in the US? Elsewhere? Had they ever met? Same qs for Sarah and Daisy please.

Was the thing Sarah gave Lisa an object? Was 25 euros a reasonable estimate of its value? Did Sarah give it to Lisa as a gift? To get rid of it? Because she wanted Lisa to have it?

Is there any deception going on here? Some kind of scam?

Relevant that 25 euros is significantly less than $300? Did Daisy know the value of a euro? Did Sarah and Lisa know the value of a dollar?

Is France specifically relevant? Could Sarah and Lisa be in another country that uses the euro? In the UK, using pounds (which are fairly close in value to euros)?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4077
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Daisy hope to receive the thing that Sarah gave Lisa? Yes, but she had no idea that Sarah or Lisa were involved
Did she buy it? She thought she did, yes
Did she give the $300 to Lisa? Sarah? Neither of these
Someone else Yes, but...in France?...no, not in France (another part of the FA)

Had Lisa and Daisy known each other in the US? No, Lisa and Daisy have never met Elsewhere? Had they ever met? So no
Same qs for Sarah and Daisy please. No, Daisy has no knowledge of Sarah or Lisa

Was the thing Sarah gave Lisa an object? Yes
Was 25 euros a reasonable estimate of its value? NO
Did Sarah give it to Lisa as a gift? Yes, in a way, moreso...To get rid of it?...this and also...Because she wanted Lisa to have it?...this.

Is there any deception going on here? Yes, very much so at one point!
Some kind of scam? Yes, certainly!

Relevant that 25 euros is significantly less than $300? It is relevant in revealing something about the object
Did Daisy know the value of a euro? Irrelevant
Did Sarah and Lisa know the value of a dollar? Yes, but irrelevant

Is France specifically relevant? Yes
Could Sarah and Lisa be in another country that uses the euro? It's possible. They could have even been in the US, but there's a reason I chose France for the puzzle (it's a roundabout clue).
In the UK, using pounds (which are fairly close in value to euros)? This could have possibly happened in the UK, considering its proximity to France and one other possible feature of the UK. If it had, the amount of money that Lisa gave Sarah would have been proportionate to the value of the euros.

Good line of questions
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Daisy give the $300 to the person she thought she was buying the object from? Did she think they had the object? Did they?
Did Daisy get scammed? If so, by Lisa? Daisy? The person she paid?

Are Sarah and Lisa sisters? Twins? Cousins? Mother and daughter?

Was the object worth more than 25 euros? Less? Was it worth $300? Did Lisa know what it was worth? Did Sarah? Did Lisa know how much 25 euros is? Did Sarah?

Did Daisy paying the money happen soon after the exchange between Lisa and Sarah? Relevant?

Is the object something that would be of wildly different value to different people?

Is Daisy American? Anything specific about Dallas relevant? About Texas? Relevant that there is both a Paris, Texas and a Paris, France?

So according to the puzzle statement, Sarah gave something to Lisa, and Sarah was unhappy. (Was this because she had given the thing away? Because she had not been recompensed?). Then Lisa gave Sarah 25 euros, and this made them both happy. Did Sarah become happy because she had the money? Did Lisa feel happy because she felt she'd sufficiently recompensed Sarah for the gift?
Was Lisa happy to receive the gift?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Daisy give the $300 to the person she thought she was buying the object from? Yes
Did she think they had the object? Yes
Did they? No
Did Daisy get scammed? YES
If so, by Lisa? Sarah? No, neither of these people were involved in the scam
The person she paid? Yes - this is an unnamed but quite relevant person in the puzzle

Are Sarah and Lisa sisters? Twins? Cousins? Mother and daughter? They are sisters

Was the object worth more than 25 euros? Yes Less? No
Was it worth $300? More than that
Did Lisa know what it was worth? Did Sarah? They both knew what it was worth at some point. Lisa may not have known at first but it's likely that Sarah told her at some point.
Did Lisa know how much 25 euros is? Did Sarah? Yes, they both did.

Did Daisy paying the money happen soon after the exchange between Lisa and Sarah? No, but define "soon" Relevant? Yes, very much so

Is the object something that would be of wildly different value to different people? Value, yes. Cost, no. Different people may see the object as either fairly priced or ridiculously priced but anyone who wanted to obtain it would likely pay the same wherever they got it.

Is Daisy American? Yes
Anything specific about Dallas relevant? Nope, random choice of a US city
About Texas? No
Relevant that there is both a Paris, Texas and a Paris, France? No but that's a funny coincidence huh?

So according to the puzzle statement, Sarah gave something to Lisa, and Sarah was unhappy. (Was this because she had given the thing away? Because she had not been recompensed?). Then Lisa gave Sarah 25 euros, and this made them both happy. This is mostly right but keep reading...

Did Sarah become happy because she had the money?
No, Sarah didn't want or need the money
Did Lisa feel happy because she felt she'd sufficiently recompensed Sarah for the gift? She knew that Sarah didn't want or expect to be recompensed but she felt happy to receive what Sarah gave her. Sarah would have still been happy without receiving any money, but before she gave the gift to Lisa she was unhappy about something relevant.
Was Lisa happy to receive the gift? Yes, very much so
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sarah happy to give away the gift? Did she not want it? Did she give it away to get rid of it? Did it make her unhappy to have it?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sarah happy to give away the gift? She was happy to give it to her sister Lisa, yes
Did she not want it? Yes, for a certain reason
Did she give it away to get rid of it? She gave it to her sister once she found that her sister wanted it. Sarah didn't want it but probably wouldn't have just "gotten rid of it."
Did it make her unhappy to have it? At first, no, but some time later yes.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The scammer: just one person? Male? Female? American? French? Living in the US? France? Can we call them Scammer, because four names is just too much to keep track of :p ?

Had the scammer ever met Lisa? Sarah? Were they related to either of them?

Did Sarah not want it because she had no need for it? Had a better version of it? Was going to get a better version? Or something that performed the function of the item? Had she previously wanted the item? Was it an unwanted gift to Sarah originally? Relevant how Sarah obtained it in the first place? Was her unhappiness due to having the item? Due to Lisa not having it? Due to some other factor which also explains why she no longer wanted the item?

Was the gift something you wear? A vehicle? Building? Modern piece of technology? Electrical? Mechanical? Related to computers? Alive? Bigger than a tennis ball? Bigger than a microwave? A table? A horse?

Is the gift something that there is only one of in the world? Was it famous? Did Daisy think she was buying the exact same item as the one that Sarah had earlier given Lisa?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, this puzzle is moving quickly!

Was the gift something from France? From the United States?

Did Daisy think she was buying something at all? Was there any further part to the scam other than Daisy losing $300?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The scammer: just one person? Yes Male? No Female? Yes American? Yes French? No
Living in the US? Yes
France? No
Can we call them Scammer, because four names is just too much to keep track of :p ? Sure, that works

Had the scammer ever met Lisa? Sarah? Yes, the scammer had met both of them
Were they related to either of them? No

Did Sarah not want it because she had no need for it? Correct
Had a better version of it? Not exactly
Was going to get a better version? Not exactly this either
Or something that performed the function of the item? Yes - she didn't want or need the one she had and would probably get something that performed the same function at some point in the future, although this isn't definite
Had she previously wanted the item? Yes - good q
Was it an unwanted gift to Sarah originally? No, Sarah had bought the item
Relevant how Sarah obtained it in the first place? Somewhat relevant that she bought it instead of receiving it as a gift
Was her unhappiness due to having the item? Her unhappiness was due to an aspect of the item, not simply due to having the item
Due to Lisa not having it? No, her unhappiness was related to an aspect of the item and it made her happy that Lisa was excited to receive it from her
Due to some other factor which also explains why she no longer wanted the item? Yes

Was the gift something you wear? Yes A vehicle? Building? Modern piece of technology? Electrical? Mechanical? Related to computers? None of these
Alive? No Bigger than a tennis ball? Yes Bigger than a microwave? A table? A horse? No, smaller than these 3 things

Is the gift something that there is only one of in the world? No, there are many of them
Was it famous? YES, something about it was famous - good q!
Did Daisy think she was buying the exact same item as the one that Sarah had earlier given Lisa? Yes, but all she knew was the information about the item. She had no knowledge of Lisa or Sarah or the fact that the item had been exchanged between them.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, this puzzle is moving quickly! Yes, it is! Better get in fast...

Was the gift something from France? Yes
From the United States? No, not this one. It can be obtained in the US though

Did Daisy think she was buying something at all? Yes
Was there any further part to the scam other than Daisy losing $300? No, she got suckered out of $300 but that was the extent of it and she probably learned a valuable life lesson.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it jewellery? Something worn on the top half? Bottom half? Fur? Leather? If one of those, had Sarah become an animal rights advocate and no longer wanted it?

Had it been worn by a famous person? In a film or similar?

Did Scammer claim to have obtained the item from France? From Lisa? From Sarah?

Relevant how the fraudulent transaction between Scammer and Daisy happened? Via internet? In person? Did Daisy pay in cash? Cheque? Online?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the gift a piece of jewelry? A precious stone?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it jewellery? No Something worn on the top half? Bottom half? Bottom
Fur? No Leather? This might be part of it, yes
If one of those, had Sarah become an animal rights advocate and no longer wanted it? No, not for this reason

Had it been worn by a famous person? YES - not this exact item, but an identical one
In a film or similar? Not in a movie but you have the right idea

Did Scammer claim to have obtained the item from France? Yes From Lisa? From Sarah? No, Scammer never mentioned Lisa or Sarah

Relevant how the fraudulent transaction between Scammer and Daisy happened? Yes Via internet? This, and...In person?...this too.
Did Daisy pay in cash? Cheque? She would have paid by one of these methods, yes
Online? No, not this way
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the gift a piece of jewelry? No
A precious stone? No
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 18109
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it an eBay scam, then? Or Craigslist or one of those other selling-stuff sites?

When Scammer & Daisy met in person, did Scammer claim to have the item? With him? Was the in-persom meeting supposedly "for safety"? Did Scammer give Daisy a fake item? Something that was not the item at all (a box of packing peanuts or something)?\

Was the item a skirt? Shoes? Pants? Socks? Undies?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2013 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shoes? A watch? A bag? Trousers? Skirt?

Did the item no longer fit? Did it hurt when Sarah wore it?

Was the identical item worn to a famous event? On TV? Was Sarah's item marketed as a replica of the famous item? Or was it just the same?

Did Daisy want the item because of the famous connection? Did she want the specific item worn by the famous person?

Did Scammer know that Sarah had the item? That she had given it to Daisy? Did this give her the idea for the scam?

Was Scammer a friend of Daisy's? Relative? Did she know her before the scam began? Did she approach Daisy with the offer? Did Daisy advertise that she wanted the item?

Did Daisy receive anything at all? Did Scammer just disappear after receiving the money? Did she give some excuse why Daisy couldn't get the item she paid for? Did she pull some trick, eg giving her an empty box and saying "well that's what you saw in the photos I showed you"?

Did the scam happen days after the exchange between Lisa and Sarah? Weeks? Months? Years?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it an eBay scam, then? Or Craigslist or one of those other selling-stuff sites? Yes, this type of scam

When Scammer & Daisy met in person, did Scammer claim to have the item? With him? Yes (with her)
Was the in-persom meeting supposedly "for safety"? Yes
Did Scammer give Daisy a fake item? Yes
Something that was not the item at all (a box of packing peanuts or something)? No, it was convincing enough for Daisy to pay for it

Was the item...shoes? Yes

Did the [shoes] no longer fit? They fit, but...Did it hurt when Sarah wore it?...yes, she found them very uncomfortable to wear.

Was the identical item worn to a famous event? Yes
On TV? Maybe, but also in other places
Was Sarah's item marketed as a replica of the famous item? Or was it just the same? It was the same kind of shoes that a famous person wore

Did Daisy want the item because of the famous connection? Probably so
Did she want the specific item worn by the famous person? No, just the same type

Did Scammer know that Sarah had the [shoes]? Yes
That she had given it to Daisy? What?
Did this give her the idea for the scam? I'm not sure the details are all right here, better ask again...

Was Scammer a friend of Daisy's? Relative? Neither
Did she know her before the scam began? No
Did she approach Daisy with the offer? In a way, she posted the offer on a site like Craigslist
Did Daisy advertise that she wanted the item? She responded to the ad

Did Daisy receive anything at all? Yes
Did Scammer just disappear after receiving the money? Scammer departed rather quickly, yes
Did she give some excuse why Daisy couldn't get the item she paid for? No, Daisy believed that she had gotten what she paid for
Did she pull some trick, eg giving her an empty box and saying "well that's what you saw in the photos I showed you"? No, it was convincing enough for Daisy to pay her

Did the scam happen days after the exchange between Lisa and Sarah? Weeks? Months? Weeks to months Years? No
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I got my names mixed up! I meant:
did Scammer know that Sarah had given the shoes to Lisa? Had Scammer been present when this happened? Did she get the idea for the scam from knowing that Sarah or Lisa had the shoes? Did she ever see the shoes in person? Did knowing Lisa and Sarah help her in her scam? Allow her to create a convincing fake pair of shoes, having seen the real ones?

Was Scammer friends with Sarah and Lisa? Had Scammer ever been to France? Had she met Sarah and Lisa in the US?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Scammer tell Daisy that the shoes she bought were unique?
Did Lisa give Sarah the money as a recompensation for the shoes? Is it relevant that some people are supersticious about getting the shoes for free?
Did Scammer pretend she is Lisa? or Sarah?
Did Daisy want the same one pair of shoes that Sarah gave Lisa? Or just another pair of the same type?
The shoes Daisy got were fake because of: the material they were made of? their age? being used/not used?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I got my names mixed up! I meant:
did Scammer know that Sarah had given the shoes to Lisa? Yes, scammer learned this at some point
Had Scammer been present when this happened? No
Did she get the idea for the scam from knowing that Sarah or Lisa had the shoes? This, and from knowing something else about the shoes
Did she ever see the shoes in person? Yes
Did knowing Lisa and Sarah help her in her scam? Yes, in a very concrete way!
Allow her to create a convincing fake pair of shoes, having seen the real ones? YES, and one other relevant thing also

Was Scammer friends with Sarah and Lisa? Yes
Had Scammer ever been to France? No
Had she met Sarah and Lisa in the US? Yes

Did Scammer tell Daisy that the shoes she bought were unique? Daisy would have already known this based on seeing the famous person wearing them and reading Scammer's ad for the shoes
Did Lisa give Sarah the money as a recompensation for the shoes? It's doesn't really matter - the giving of the money was more or less a "sisterly" act of thanks. It made Sarah happy to see that Lisa was thrilled to get the shoes that Sarah had bought but ended up not liking because in her opinion they were not comfortable.
Is it relevant that some people are supersticious about getting the shoes for free? No
Did Scammer pretend she is Lisa? or Sarah? No/not relevant
Did Daisy want the same one pair of shoes that Sarah gave Lisa? She didn't know anything about Sarah or Lisa
Or just another pair of the same type? Yes, she wanted a pair of shoes just like she had seen the famous person wearing and Scammer had advertised this type of shoe for sale
The shoes Daisy got were fake because of: the material they were made of? This mostly
their age? being used/not used? Not these. In order to make the scam convincing enough that Daisy would pay for the shoes, Scammer needed to get shoes made of inexpensive material and do two other things. Figure out what else Scammer did and it will be solved!
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the scammer: have a look at the real pair of shoes? Photograph them? Describe them in great detail? Try them on?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the scammer: have a look at the real pair of shoes? Yes, and something else relevant
Photograph them? Not the shoes, but...
Describe them in great detail? Yes
Try them on? Not relevant
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the scammer photograph either Sarah or Lisa in the shoes?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the scammer photograph either Sarah or Lisa in the shoes? No
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sarah and Lisa help Scammer to carry off her scam? Did they end up unwittingly helping her?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sarah and Lisa help Scammer to carry off her scam? No...Did they end up unwittingly helping her?...yes, in a sense. Neither Lisa or Sarah knew anything about what Scammer did at any time, yet Lisa did something that greatly aided the scam.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lisa lend them to the scammer? Did the scammer wear the shoes at any point? Did what Lisa did help the scammer by giving her an idea? Making Daisy more likely to fall for it? Allowing Scammer to make more convincing fakes? Making Scammer seem more trustworthy? Did Lisa publicise the shoes, thus making Daisy want them?

Is there anything unusual about the shoes? Their colour relevant? Shape? Pattern? Material they are made from? Size?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lisa give the scammer the idea in the first place?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lisa lend them to the scammer? She lent something to scammer, but not the shoes...
Did the scammer wear the shoes at any point? No, not relevant
Did what Lisa did help the scammer by giving her an idea? No, Scammer already had the idea and she needed Lisa to do something to put it into action
Making Daisy more likely to fall for it? Yes, Lisa did something innocent that made the scam very believable
Allowing Scammer to make more convincing fakes? No, Scammer already knew how to make a convincing fake, she just needed one thing
Making Scammer seem more trustworthy? At least the ad, yes
Did Lisa publicise the shoes, thus making Daisy want them? No

Is there anything unusual about the shoes? Yes...Their colour relevant?...yes, very much.
Shape? Not so much
Pattern? Yes-ish, in relation to color
Material they are made from? Size? Not really

Did Lisa give the scammer the idea in the first place? No. It's safe to assume that Scammer had seen or heard about similar scams and wanted to pull one off. The sight of Lisa's shoes and something else provided the final motivation.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Color: red? Green? Blue? Yellow? Black? White? Did she change the color of a cheap pair of shoes?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lisa do something that Daisy heard about? Did what Lisa did make it more believable that the shoes would be on the market? That they would be available for $300? That Scammer would have the shoes? That the shoes presented to Daisy were genuine?

Was the colour unusual? Bright? Was it a print, like leopard print? A block colour? A few colours?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Color: red? Green? Blue? Yellow? Black? White? None of these, you're close with "black"
Did she change the color of a cheap pair of shoes? YES, so what's the only other thing she needed to do to pull off the scam?

Did Lisa do something that Daisy heard about? No. Daisy has never met, seen or heard of Lisa.
Did what Lisa did make it more believable that the shoes would be on the market? That they would be available for $300? No
That Scammer would have the shoes? Yes, Lisa did something that allowed Scammer to convince Daisy that she was selling a pair of shoes that she possessed
That the shoes presented to Daisy were genuine?
YES
Was the colour unusual? Somewhat, at lesat one part of it was
Bright? Yes
Was it a print, like leopard print? No
A block colour? No A few colours? The shoe is mainly two colors, and one of the colors would be considered bright
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brown? Grey? Another dark colour?
Was the bright colour orange? Purple? Pink?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brown? Grey? Yes, the shoes are mostly grey Another dark colour?
Was the bright colour orange? Purple? No
Pink? Yes, a form of pink that looks bright
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 5:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: The "thing" that Lisa did was in response to a request that Scammer made, she didn't just do it without thinking.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she do something to the shoes? With the shoes? To Scammer? Did she show Scammer something? Tell her something?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she do something to the shoes? With the shoes? To Scammer? As far as the shoes are concerned, she probably showed them to Scammer and other friends and that's the extent of it. Now...Did she show Scammer something?...YES, this is Lisa's relevant action that put the scam in motion.
Tell her something? It's likely that she told Scammer that these were shoes that were normally very expensive but she got them from her sister for nothing (or almost nothing). Scammer may have already known that the shoes were expensive, but if she didn't know this and found it out from Lisa then it would have greatly helped in the scam.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lisa give the scammer the shoe box that her shoes had come in?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, January 11, 2013 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Lisa give the scammer the shoe box that her shoes had come in? Yes! Anyone want to piece it together?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2013 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Daisy likely would not have believed that the shoes were real, if they had not been in the original box? So the scammer made fake shoes, and gave them in the same box that Lisa's shoes had come in?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Daisy likely would not have believed that the shoes were real, if they had not been in the original box? So the scammer made fake shoes, and gave them in the same box that Lisa's shoes had come in? Yes! Nice job...

*** SPOILER ***

Lisa went to France to visit her sister Sarah, who had recently bought some gray tennis shoes with a metallic pink finish on the toe. She had seen the shoes in photos of Michelle Obama who wore the same kind of shoes to a charity event. Sarah paid over 500 euros for the shoes, which can be bought for over $500 from upscale shoe boutiques in the US, but after wearing them for just a short time found them to be very uncomfortable. She offered the shoes to Lisa who happily accepted. When Lisa got back home to Dallas, she had some friends over to visit and showed them her new shoes. One of the friends, "Scammer," was not only impressed with the shoes but also inspired based on an iPad scam she'd read about (see below). She went and bought a very inexpensive pair of shoes and painted them to look like the real ones. Then she called Lisa and said, "I'd really like to show your shoes to my husband so he can buy them for me for my next birthday." Innocently, Lisa gave the shoes (in the box) to Scammer. A few days later, Scammer returned the shoes to Lisa and said that she had "somehow" misplaced the box and would return it when and if she found it. She then placed an ad on Craigslist for the "Michelle Obama" shoes for $300. Daisy saw the ad and responded, and Scammer arranged to meet Daisy in a public place to make the trade. When they met, Scammer told Daisy that she was in a hurry for a meeting. Daisy opened the box, took a quick look at the shoes, and was so excited to have them that she gladly handed over the $300. Scammer left quickly and was never seen or heard from again (as soon as she got home she removed all of her information from Craigslist).

This is based on the actual pics of Mrs. Obama at a charity event wearing $550 French tennis shoes. It's also based on a scam that happened in our area - a man placed ads on Craigslist for an "unopened" iPad for approx. $200 less than a new one cost, stating that he had been given it as a gift and already owned one. Someone responded to the ad and the man met them at a shopping mall with an iPad box in clear wrap with something inside. The man told the buyer that he was in a hurry, and the buyer could tell that something was in the box so he paid the seller and the seller left quickly. The buyer opened the box to find a 3 ring binder notebook that was about the same size and weight as an iPad. The seller had removed the iPad, replaced it with the binder and re-sealed the box. As far as I know the seller was not found because all of his information had been removed from Craigslist by the time the buyer figured out he'd been scammed and reported it to police.



Great work! The final Wieck adventure is still being put together, I've been busy lately but it's on the way.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, January 14, 2013 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm... reminds me of a story that might make a fun puzzle...

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