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Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1806
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jill got flowers. Jake died.

This is inspired by a true story, that happened in my surrounding last week.
Abc (Abc)
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Post Number: 434
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it happen in the succession mentioned in the puzzle statement?
Did one cause the other?
Relevant what kind of flowers?
Was Jake aged? If so, how (if it is permissible to ask)?
Relevant who gave Jill the flowers?
Is Jake human?
Is Jill inhuman?
Is Jake Jill?
Did a lot of time pass between the events?
If not, did a little less time pass between the events?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1809
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Did it happen in the succession mentioned in the puzzle statement? Yes.
Did one cause the other? Indirectly. If Jill hadn't got flowers, Jake wouldn't have died (at least not then).
Relevant what kind of flowers? No.
Was Jake aged? If so, how (if it is permissible to ask)? Assume about 50.
Relevant who gave Jill the flowers? Yes.
Is Jake human? Yes.
Is Jill inhuman? No - she is human.
Is Jake Jill? No.
Did a lot of time pass between the events? No.
If not, did a little less time pass between the events? Assume a day or two.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 435
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Jill get the flowers from Jake?
From family?
A Friend?
Were Jill and Jake spouses?
Were they blood relations?
Was any crime involved in Jake's death?
Was he murdered?
If so, by Jill?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 4456
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should we establish the reason Jill got the flowers?

Valentines Day?
Anniversary?
Birthday?
She had a baby?
An apology?
Last day at work?
Randomly for no reason (some chance : according to my wife)?

maybe we should create a LTPF list of reasons women get flowers ;0)

Were the flowers delivered? relevant? was there a card? Does jelousy play a part in the events?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4457
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forgot to add to the list

Was she ill or in hospital?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1811
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Did Jill get the flowers from Jake? No.
From family? No.
A Friend? Noish.
Were Jill and Jake spouses? No.
Were they blood relations? No.
Was any crime involved in Jake's death? No.
Was he murdered? No.
If so, by Jill? No.

Peter365:
Should we establish the reason Jill got the flowers? No, rather the circumstances.

Valentines Day?
Anniversary?
Birthday?
She had a baby?
An apology?
Last day at work?
Randomly for no reason (some chance : according to my wife)? Assume this.

maybe we should create a LTPF list of reasons women get flowers ;0)

Were the flowers delivered? No. relevant? Yes. was there a card? No. Does jelousy play a part in the events? Yes.
Was she ill or in hospital? No.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 437
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do Jake and Jill know each other?
Was Jake's death an accident?
Did he die from a disease?
Hunger?
Exposure?
Boredom?
Allergy to flowers?
There is a relevant 3rd person here, right?
Can we call him R (if it's a "he") or L (if it's a "she")?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1813
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Do Jake and Jill know each other? No.
Was Jake's death an accident? Yope.
Did he die from a disease? Yope.
Hunger? No.
Exposure? No.
Boredom? No.
Allergy to flowers? No.
There is a relevant 3rd person here, right? Yes.
Can we call him R (if it's a "he") Sure. or L (if it's a "she")? That's not a "she".
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5118
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she get the flowers from R? Is Jake jealous? Is Jill? Is L? Are the flowers a sign of affection? Sympathy? Nothing? Did any of the involved misinterpret the meaning of the flowers? If so: Jake? Jill? R?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1815
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did she get the flowers from R? Yes. Is Jake jealous? No. Is Jill? Maybe, but it's not relevant. Is L? L is not directly involved in the puzzle. But yes, she is a jealous one.
Are the flowers a sign of affection? Yes. Sympathy? Nothing?
Did any of the involved misinterpret the meaning of the flowers? No. If so: Jake? Jill? R?
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 439
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Jake know R?
Does Jill?
Is a specific disease relevant?
If so, a bacterial infection? Viral? Poisoning?
Does all of this go in within a small (a few sqare kms) geographical area?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1817
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Does Jake know R? Yope.
Does Jill? Yes.
Is a specific disease relevant? A specific condition, yes.
If so, a bacterial infection? Viral? Poisoning? No to these.
Does all of this go in within a small (a few sqare kms) geographical area? Yes.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 441
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant what kind of geographical area?
City?
Village?
Countryside?
Wilderness?
At sea?
In a vehicle?
The condition - a medical condition?
Organ failure?
Blood loss?
Asphynxation?
Thirst?
Hunger?
Blood clotting?
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 442
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it work with plastic flowers?
Anything other than flowers?
A box of candy?
Could anyone be blamed for Jack's death?
If so, Jack himself? Jill? R?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1818
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Relevant what kind of geographical area? Somehow.
City? This...
Village? ...and this. That can be also a small town.
Countryside?
Wilderness?
At sea?
In a vehicle?
The condition - a medical condition? Yes.
Organ failure? Yes, no to the rest.
Blood loss?
Asphynxation?
Thirst?
Hunger?
Blood clotting?
Would it work with plastic flowers? Yes.
Anything other than flowers? Yes.
A box of candy? Yes.
Could anyone be blamed for Jack's death? Yesish.
If so, Jack himself? Jill? R? This.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 443
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant which organ failed?
Heart?
Intestines?
Liver?
Kidneys?
Brain?
R approaches Jill with flowers?
And gives them to her?
Is Jake present when it happens?
Does he ever see the flowers?
Does Jill do something relevant in response to getting the flowers?
Would it work with another woman in Jill's place?
Any woman? Any human being?
Would it work with anohter man in Jake's place?
Any man? Any human being?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1820
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Relevant which organ failed? Yes.
Heart? This.
Intestines?
Liver?
Kidneys?
Brain?
R approaches Jill with flowers? Yes...
And gives them to her? Yes.
Is Jake present when it happens? No.
Does he ever see the flowers? No.
Does Jill do something relevant in response to getting the flowers? Possibly.
Would it work with another woman in Jill's place? No, but see below.
Any woman? Any human being? So no.
Would it work with anohter man in Jake's place? No, but see below.
Any man? Any human being? So no.
Responses for last few questions are difficult - The situation could have happened to other people, only if they were in the same relations and the same circumstances. So I decided to respond: No.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 445
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, because Jill got flowers, Jake got a heart attack?
Is Jake on medication?
Which he failed to take?
Was he scared?
Otherwise emotionally agitated?
Did he hear something that set off the heart attack?
See something?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1827
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
So, because Jill got flowers, Jake got a heart attack? Indirectly, yes.
Is Jake on medication? No.
Which he failed to take? No.
Was he scared? Possibly.
Otherwise emotionally agitated? Yes.
Did he hear something that set off the heart attack? Yes.
See something? No.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 446
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Someone told him something?
R?
Jill?
Are there more relevant persons in this puzzle?
Did Jake become angry?
Did he hear about the flower-giving?
If so, was that what set off the heart attack?
And if so, was it the flower-giving itself that set off the emotions?
The implied romantic advancement by R upon Jill?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4102
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Jake ever see Jill in person?
Is Jake's job relevant?
Was Jake at all involved in collecting or delivering the flowers?
Is Jake ever in the same building with R? With Jill?
When Jill gets the flowers, does she respond in a relevant way? Does she cry? Yell/scream? Faint?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3760
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Friday, January 18, 2013 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did L know that R gave Jill flowers? did she do something as a result?

did Jake hear a gunshot? a scream? words?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 2627
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Saturday, January 19, 2013 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the flowers important just as flowers, or do they symbolize something?

Is it important which flowers/how many?
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 229
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2013 - 5:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Jake have an allergy? to the flowers? To bees?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1829
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Someone told him something? Yes.
R? Yope.
Jill? No.
Are there more relevant persons in this puzzle? Only peripherally relevant.
Did Jake become angry? Possibly.
Did he hear about the flower-giving? No.
If so, was that what set off the heart attack? No.
And if so, was it the flower-giving itself that set off the emotions? No.
The implied romantic advancement by R upon Jill? No.

Ixoye724:
Did Jake ever see Jill in person? No.
Is Jake's job relevant? No.
Was Jake at all involved in collecting or delivering the flowers? No.
Is Jake ever in the same building with R? No, but... With Jill? No.
When Jill gets the flowers, does she respond in a relevant way? Noish. Does she cry? No. Yell/scream? Faint? No.

Shez:
did L know that R gave Jill flowers? No. did she do something as a result? No.

did Jake hear a gunshot? a scream? words? No to these.

Alhucema:
Are the flowers important just as flowers, or do they symbolize something? If I understand your question, the flowers are not important by themselves, but the circumstances of giving them are important.

Is it important which flowers/how many? No.

Deholmes:
Did Jake have an allergy? to the flowers? To bees? No to these.
Abc (Abc)
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Username: Abc

Post Number: 453
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the flowers given as a romantic advancement?
As comfort for sorrow?
As just a friendly gift?
As a gift at all?
Ages of R and Jill relevant?
Did R give the flowers on behalf of himself?
Or for someone else?
Can we call the peripherally relevant person Task17?
Are there any hidden motives in giving the flowers?
Did more than one person participate in telling Jake whatever it was that Jake was told?
What Jake was told - was it anything about R? Jill? Task17?
If the flowers had not been given, then Jake would not have died because...
- There would be nothing to tell?
- There would still be the something to tell, but Jake would not have been told?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1831
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Are the flowers given as a romantic advancement? Yes.
As comfort for sorrow? No.
As just a friendly gift? No.
As a gift at all? Yes.
Ages of R and Jill relevant? No.
Did R give the flowers on behalf of himself? Yes.
Or for someone else? No.
Can we call the peripherally relevant person Task17? Yes.
Are there any hidden motives in giving the flowers? No.
Did more than one person participate in telling Jake whatever it was that Jake was told? Yope.
What Jake was told - was it anything about R? Yes. Jill? Task17? No to the rest.
If the flowers had not been given, then Jake would not have died because...
- There would be nothing to tell? Yes.
- There would still be the something to tell, but Jake would not have been told? No.
Abc (Abc)
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Post Number: 454
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Monday, January 21, 2013 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the present-giving really necessary?
Or would it work even if R had just said pleasant things to Jill?
Or if he had taken her to a restaurant?
So Jake is upset about hearing something about R?
Something that R has done?
A trait of R's personality?
A trait of R's physique?
Relevant who tells Jake the thing that Jake is told?
Is Task17 involved in the telling?
Is Jake worried about something that will happen as a consequence of what he is told?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1834
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Is the present-giving really necessary? Noish.
Or would it work even if R had just said pleasant things to Jill? Yes - under certain circumstances.
Or if he had taken her to a restaurant? Possibly but not necessarily.
So Jake is upset about hearing something about R? Yes.
Something that R has done? No, but...
A trait of R's personality? No.
A trait of R's physique? No.
Relevant who tells Jake the thing that Jake is told? Yes.
Is Task17 involved in the telling? Yes.
Is Jake worried about something that will happen as a consequence of what he is told? Yes.
Abc (Abc)
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Post Number: 456
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Task17 related to any of the other 3?
The spouse of any of the other 3?
Is real or percieved infidelity a factor in this puzzle?
Is Jake upset about something that R might do in the future?
The thing that Jake was told - was it simply that R had been giving Jill flowers?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1842
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Is Task17 related to any of the other 3? Yes - to R.
The spouse of any of the other 3? No.
Is real or percieved infidelity a factor in this puzzle? Yes.
Is Jake upset about something that R might do in the future? Yesish - OTRT.
The thing that Jake was told - was it simply that R had been giving Jill flowers? No, Jill was not ever mentioned to Jake.
Abc (Abc)
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Post Number: 457
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2013 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Task17 a...
Grandparent of R?
Parent of R?
Brother or sister of R?
Child of R?
Grandchild of R?
Is Task17 also yesish worried about a future action of R?
A possible future action of R?
Something that might negatively influence Task17?
Or Jake?
Did Jake get to know that R made romantic advancements toward someone, but not who?
Is an inheritance relevant here?
Are health issues relevant?
Monetary issues?
Religious issues?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1845
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Task17 a... Task17 is not related by blood to R.
Grandparent of R?
Parent of R?
Brother or sister of R?
Child of R?
Grandchild of R?
Is Task17 also yesish worried about a future action of R? Yes.
A possible future action of R? Task17 is certain about the action.
Something that might negatively influence Task17? No.
Or Jake? Yes.
Did Jake get to know that R made romantic advancements toward someone, but not who? No.
Is an inheritance relevant here? No.
Are health issues relevant? No, apart of the fact of Jake's heart attack.
Monetary issues? Yes.
Religious issues? No.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4105
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Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we have Jake, R, Jill and Task17 as the relevant people? Any other relevant people?
And Jake was told by Task17 about R's actions (the giving of the flowers)?
Was R giving the flowers in addition to asking Jill to marry him? Is Jill married already to R? To someone else?
Jake has no idea who Jill is, or that she even exists?
Jake is not related by blood to R or Jill or Task17?
Abc (Abc)
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Post Number: 460
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any of Jill, Jake, R and Task17 each other's spouse?
If not, and since there is some real? percieved? future? infidelity here, at least one more person must be at least implicitly relevant here, right?
Is R's future action a criminal act?
Something that will affect Jake emotionally (or would have, if he hadn't died)?
Are there emotional bonds between any of the 4?
Adoption and/or foster care relevant?
Is Task17's sex relevant? Male? Female?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1847
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
So we have Jake, R, Jill and Task17 as the relevant people? Yes. Any other relevant people? There has been also L mentioned, but she does nothing besides being jealous.
And Jake was told by Task17 about R's actions Yes...(the giving of the flowers)? But not about the flowers.
Was R giving the flowers in addition to asking Jill to marry him? No. Is Jill married already to R? No. To someone else? No.
Jake has no idea who Jill is, or that she even exists? The latter.

Jake is not related by blood to R or Jill or Task17? No, Jake, R, Jill and Task17 are not related by blood.

Abc:
Are any of Jill, Jake, R and Task17 each other's spouse? No.
If not, and since there is some real? This. percieved? future? infidelity here, at least one more person must be at least implicitly relevant here, right? Yes and it's L, the jealous one.
Is R's future action a criminal act? No.
Something that will affect Jake emotionally (or would have, if he hadn't died)? Yes - even the knowledge about future action of R caused the heart attack of Jake.
Are there emotional bonds between any of the 4? Yes.
Adoption and/or foster care relevant? No.
Is Task17's sex relevant? Male? Female? It's female and it's not relevant. Only relevant thing about Task17 is her relation to R and the fact that she was the one to inform Jake.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 4108
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Friday, January 25, 2013 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So what did Task17 say to Jake...
That R was romantically interested in Jill?
That R was cheating on L?
That R was going to leave/divorce his wife?

Was Jake related to Task17 by blood? By marriage?
Are all people in this story about the same age?
If not, are any of their ages relevant?

Is there any bond or connection between L and Jake? Between L and Jill? Between L and R? I know that someone may have already asked but I feel like something obvious is lurking but overlooked...
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1850
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
So what did Task17 say to Jake...
That R was romantically interested in Jill?
That R was cheating on L?
That R was going to leave/divorce his wife? None of these. What Task17 said to Jake did not concern R's emotional or family life.

Was Jake related to Task17 by blood? By marriage? Jake was not related to Task17 at all.
Are all people in this story about the same age? R, L and Task17 are about 40, Jake is older, Jill is younger. This is not much relevant.
If not, are any of their ages relevant?

Is there any bond or connection between L and Jake? No. Between L and Jill? There is a connection, but they're not related. Between L and R? YES! I know that someone may have already asked but I feel like something obvious is lurking but overlooked... Establishing relations between people is a good direction.
Abc (Abc)
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Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are fiendships - i mean, friendships - relevant?
Did Task17 know about the flower-giving?
Did she tell Jake something that she would not have done, had the flower-giving not taken place?
Did she tell Jake about R's future action?
Future action of R...
Related to economy?
Romantic relations?
To do with legal issues?
Travelling?
Moving to a new place?
Telling someone something?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Abc:
Are fiendships - i mean, friendships - relevant? No.
Did Task17 know about the flower-giving? Yope.
Did she tell Jake something that she would not have done, had the flower-giving not taken place? No.
Did she tell Jake about R's future action? Yes.
Future action of R...
Related to economy? This.
Romantic relations?
To do with legal issues? This.
Travelling? And a bit of this.
Moving to a new place?
Telling someone something?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Posted on Monday, January 28, 2013 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Read through the entire thread, building an approach, but was thrown by the last post! Oh well, lets try anyway.

Summary:
Characters: Jake, Jill, R, L, Task17
No one else even peripherally relevant?

Ages are irrelevant except for the fact they're old enough that it is not unusual for an emotional upset like Jake's to trigger a heart attack? this would be less likely with younger people but the situation otherwise could work with 30-somethings? teenagers?
For all intents and purposes we can simply say they are all of similar age? or is it relevant whom is older than whom? and by how much?

No one is blood related? and friendships aren't relevant?
Relevant connections are:
enemies?
acquaintances?
romantic interests?
romantic partners (dating, not married)?
business relationships?
No other than the aforementioned and confirmed?

I could ask for each of the above possible connections and each pair but lets go with a more lateral approach;
(1) Does Jake have feelings for R? Jill? any of the others?
(2) R makes romantic advances on Jill?
(3) this makes L jealous? because L desired romantic advances from R? is in a relationship with R? and L is not relevantly known by anyone else than R? but is known by R?
(4) Task17 learns R is spending money? doing something illegal? moving? has romantic desires? advances? on, specifically, Jill? not L? a girl? someone?
(5) Task17 tells Jake precisely everything Task17 has discovered about R?
(6) Task17s news is combined with knowledge Jake already possesses? which leads to Jake's heart attack? because of Jake's freshly acquired knowledge? or an implication? that R is spending money? doing something illegal? moving away? moving nearer? has romantic desires? advances? on, specifically, someone? a girl? not L? Jill?

For every 'yes' to the above (1) to (6), did these things occur or were they established precisely in the order (1) to (6)?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Liquizt:
Summary:
Characters: Jake, Jill, R, L, Task17 Yes.
No one else even peripherally relevant? Correct.

Ages are irrelevant except for the fact they're old enough that it is not unusual for an emotional upset like Jake's to trigger a heart attack? Yes. this would be less likely with younger people but the situation otherwise could work with 30-somethings? Yes. teenagers? No, at least not usual teenagers.
For all intents and purposes we can simply say they are all of similar age? Yes. or is it relevant whom is older than whom? No. and by how much? No.

No one is blood related? No, there are two people related... and friendships aren't relevant? Correct.
Relevant connections are:
enemies?
acquaintances?
romantic interests?
romantic partners (dating, not married)? Yes, two people.
business relationships? Yes, three people.
No other than the aforementioned and confirmed? Correct.

I could ask for each of the above possible connections and each pair but lets go with a more lateral approach;
(1) Does Jake have feelings for R? Jill? any of the others? No.
(2) R makes romantic advances on Jill? Yes, that's the pair in romantic relationship.
(3) this makes L jealous? Yes. because L desired romantic advances from R? is in a relationship with R? This. and L is not relevantly known by anyone else than R? Correct. but is known by R? Yes, because...
(4) Task17 learns R is spending money? Not relevant. doing something illegal? moving? has romantic desires? advances? on, specifically, Jill? Yes, Task17 is aware of a relationship between R and Jill and also knows R relationship with L. not L? a girl? someone?
(5) Task17 tells Jake precisely everything Task17 has discovered about R? No!
(6) Task17s news is combined with knowledge Jake already possesses? No. Jake has no knowledge about romantic life of R - neither before talking with Task17, nor after. which leads to Jake's heart attack? The information from Task17 led to heart attack, yes. because of Jake's freshly acquired knowledge? Yes. or an implication? No. that R is spending money? No. doing something illegal? No. moving away? No. moving nearer? No. has romantic desires? No. advances? No. on, specifically, someone? a girl? not L? Jill?

For every 'yes' to the above (1) to (6), did these things occur or were they established precisely in the order (1) to (6)? Yes, the schedule of events is correct. R is in romantic relation with Jill, L is jealous - this is a constant state. On that specific day, R gives Jill flowers. On the same time (could be little before or little after) Task17 informs Jake about certain future action of R, what makes Jake upset and leads to heart attack. Romantic life of R is not an object of the conversation.

I think you have an important FA about the role of Task17 - I think that this post may help clearing it.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2013 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So does Task have a conversation with Jake? Or moreso just tell him something? Does Jake ask Task any questions? Does Task ask Jake any questions?

Does this 'future action of R' involve R's job? One of his hobbies? A specific action? Something R is planning to do?

Has Jake ever spoken directly to L?
Has R spoken directly to L?
Has Task spoken directly to L?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
So does Task have a conversation with Jake? Or moreso just tell him something? This. Does Jake ask Task any questions? Does Task ask Jake any questions? Could have been, but it is not relevant. Task17 passed an information to Jake and this is only relevant aspect of any possible conversation.

Does this 'future action of R' involve R's job? Yes. One of his hobbies? No. A specific action? Something R is planning to do? Yes - it was a very specific plan - but it concern rather something R was planning NOT to do (HINT!)

Has Jake ever spoken directly to L? No.
Has R spoken directly to L? Yes, many times.
Has Task spoken directly to L? Possibly, but not relevant.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Task tell Jake that R is planning to not do something?
Does Jake believe that R's upcoming actions will negatively affect him (Jake)?
Is Jake's heart attack a result of fear? Sadness? Shock? Anxiety? Excitement? Joy? Worry? Disappointment? Grief?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
So Task tell Jake that R is planning to not do something? Yes indeed.
Does Jake believe that R's upcoming actions will negatively affect him (Jake)? Yes.
Is Jake's heart attack a result of fear? A bit of this... Sadness? A bit of this... Shock? Anxiety? This too. Excitement? Joy? Worry? This and... Disappointment? Much of this. Grief?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2013 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How does Jake feel about R...does he like him? Hate him? Feel neutrally towards him?
Was Jake expecting some kind of benefit that he'll now not get because of what R isn't going to do?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
How does Jake feel about R...does he like him? Hate him? Feel neutrally towards him? This, at least before the incident happened.
Was Jake expecting some kind of benefit that he'll now not get because of what R isn't going to do? Yesish, that is very OTRT.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, February 01, 2013 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, at some point, R had planned to do something that he later decided not to do?
Or, had Jake assumed that R was going to do it, but never really knew for sure?
Did R change his mind about doing something? If so, was his change of mind related to Jill? To L?
Is R some kind of community leader? Politician? Someone of importance?
Was Jake expecting a financial benefit? Lifestyle benefit? Health benefit? Something else?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2013 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
So, at some point, R had planned to do something that he later decided not to do? Yes indeed.
Or, had Jake assumed that R was going to do it, but never really knew for sure? No, Jake knew for sure.
Did R change his mind about doing something? Yes. If so, was his change of mind related to Jill? Yes. To L? Indirectly, yes.
Is R some kind of community leader? No.
Politician? No. Someone of importance? DOYD, he is an official and his presence is necessary in some situations.
Was Jake expecting a financial benefit? Yes. Lifestyle benefit? This too. Health benefit? Something else? Jake wanted to get rid of something and that would cause financial benefit and lifestyle change.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2013 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is R a justice of the peace?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, February 04, 2013 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Jake hoping to get out of debt? Sell something? Give something away?
If R had followed through with his original plan, would he and Jake have interacted somehow?
Would R have bought something from Jake?
Is R a police officer? Lawyer? Judge?
Does R's change of plans include changing jobs? Resigning from his current job?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez:
is R a justice of the peace? No, but OTRT.

Ixoye724:
Was Jake hoping to get out of debt? Sell something? This. Give something away?
If R had followed through with his original plan, would he and Jake have interacted somehow? Yes.
Would R have bought something from Jake? No.
Is R a police officer? Lawyer? This. Judge?
Does R's change of plans include changing jobs? No. Resigning from his current job? No.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does R's relationship with Jill cause a conflict of interest between R and Jake?
Is it relevant to know what Jake hoped to sell?
Was it land? A house? A car? Jewelry? Stocks?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2013 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Does R's relationship with Jill cause a conflict of interest between R and Jake? No.
Is it relevant to know what Jake hoped to sell? Yes.
Was it land? Could have been. A house? Could have been. A car? Jewelry? Stocks? No to these. It was a flat but it would have worked with any type of real estate.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Jake in financial trouble? Debt?
Was he hoping to sell a house that had some problems?
Was R going to help Jake sell the real estate?
Are any personality traits of R relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Was Jake in financial trouble? Possibly but not neccesarily. Debt?
Was he hoping to sell a house that had some problems? Yes, but the exact nature of the problems is not relevant.
Was R going to help Jake sell the real estate? Yes.
Are any personality traits of R relevant? No, just profession and relationships.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, February 08, 2013 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The funny thing is, that Jake (who in reality did not die, but just spent some time in hospital) is selling his estate at the moment with the help of R.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, February 11, 2013 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Task tell Jake that R wasn't going to be working as a lawyer anymore? Or that R was going to be somehow prevented from helping Jake sell his property?
Is there a reason why Jake wouldn't just find another lawyer to help sell his property? Was he somehow bound to R's services?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Did Task tell Jake that R wasn't going to be working as a lawyer anymore? No. Or that R was going to be somehow prevented from helping Jake sell his property? Yesish, but... OTRT.
Is there a reason why Jake wouldn't just find another lawyer to help sell his property? Yes. The contract that Jake wanted to do was so complicated that no other lawyer decided to do this. There is also another reason, that is somehow relevant. Was he somehow bound to R's services? Only in that meaning that he had already fixed appointment with R.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant to know who the buyer is?
Had Jake already found a buyer?
And now R's actions would mean that the buyer could not buy the property?
Would R's future actions/decisions somehow mean that Jake would be stuck with the property, unable to sell it?
Would other lawyers besides R consider it unethical to assist with the sale of the property? Illegal? Would they fear losing their license if they assisted?
Was Task also trying to sell property? Was Task also using R's legal services?
Was R going to "clean up his act" and not assist with shady property deals from now on?
Is it relevant to know how R met Jill? How long they had known each other?
Is it relevant to know where each of the characters in the story lives? In relation to each other? Geographically?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2013 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Is it relevant to know who the buyer is? No.
Had Jake already found a buyer? Yes.
And now R's actions would mean that the buyer could not buy the property? Yes.
Would R's future actions/decisions somehow mean that Jake would be stuck with the property, unable to sell it? Yesish.
Would other lawyers besides R consider it unethical to assist with the sale of the property? Illegal? Would they fear losing their license if they assisted? No to these and in fact irrelevant. Just R agreed to assist in this complex case and others refused - because of the complexity of the case.
Was Task also trying to sell property? Was Task also using R's legal services? No to these.
Was R going to "clean up his act" and not assist with shady property deals from now on? No.
Is it relevant to know how R met Jill? No. How long they had known each other? No.
Is it relevant to know where each of the characters in the story lives? R, L, Task and Jill live in the same city, Jake lives in the village near the city, rest is irrelevant.In relation to each other? Geographically?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, February 18, 2013 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the details of the case relevant, or just sufficient to know that it is complex?
Does everyone else know L? Do any of L's actions influence R's change of mind about assisting Jake?
Does R knowingly and willingly withdraw from helping Jake? Or does something prevent him, against his will, from participating?
Does the buyer, at some point, back out of the deal? Is Jake, at some point, forced to disclose information about the property which makes the buyer, and future buyers, not want to buy it?
Does something happen to reveal information about the property, thus turning buyers away?
Does Jake live at/in the property that he's trying to sell? If he doesn't live there, does someone else relevant to the story live there?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Are the details of the case relevant No., or just sufficient to know that it is complex? This is sufficient.
Does everyone else know L? No. Do any of L's actions influence R's change of mind about assisting Jake? Not actions...
Does R knowingly and willingly withdraw from helping Jake? Yes. Or does something prevent him, against his will, from participating? No.
Does the buyer, at some point, back out of the deal? No. Is Jake, at some point, forced to disclose information about the property which makes the buyer, and future buyers, not want to buy it? No.
Does something happen to reveal information about the property, thus turning buyers away? No.
Does Jake live at/in the property that he's trying to sell? Yes,\. If he doesn't live there, does someone else relevant to the story live there? No.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did L say something that influenced R's change of mind? Does L threaten R? Does L threaten Jill?
Is there a confrontation between L and R? Between L and Jill?
Does Task hear L say something? Does Task witness a confrontation between L and someone else?
Would R's life be at risk if he continued assisting Jake? Would Jill's?
Would R's career be at risk? Would Jill's?
Would some embarrassing information about R be revealed by L about R, and R doesn't want that to happen (blackmail)? Would something be revealed about Jill?
Does R back out of helping Jake in order to protect himself? Protect Jill? Protect Jake?
Does R know that Jake will likely die if he breaks off the relationship? Does he care?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Did L say something that influenced R's change of mind? No... Does L threaten R? No.
Does L threaten Jill? No.
Is there a confrontation between L and R? Possibly but not neccesarily. Between L and Jill? No.
Does Task hear L say something? No. Does Task witness a confrontation between L and someone else? No.
Would R's life be at risk if he continued assisting Jake? No. Would Jill's? No.
Would R's career be at risk? No. Would Jill's? No.
Would some embarrassing information about R be revealed by L about R, and R doesn't want that to happen (blackmail)? No. Would something be revealed about Jill? No.
Does R back out of helping Jake in order to protect himself? OTRT. Protect Jill? Noish. Protect Jake? No.
Does R know that Jake will likely die if he breaks off the relationship? No. Does he care? Possibly if he knew that Jake would likely die, he would care.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP:
Jake was going to sell a real estate. The transaction was complex, and he needed the help of the lawyer, R. Task17 informed Jake that R was not going to help him, although appointment had previously been planned. R knowingly and willingly withdraw from helping Jake. Jake became very nervous about the fact, that he could not sell the property, got a heart attack and died within a day or two.
After having decided not to help Jake, R gave flowers to Jill, with whom he was in romantic relationship. L was jealous about the relationship R-Jill.
R, L, Task and Jill live in the same city, Jake lives in the village near the city. R, L, Task and Jill are more or less of the same age. Jake is older. Two people are blood related, three in business relationships and there is one romantic relationship, not married (R and Jill).
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the three in business relationship work at the same place? Do the same kind of job? Work for the same person? Does one of the three have a higher position than the others?
Are the three with the business relationship R, L and Jill? R, L and Task? R, Jill and Task? Is Jake in the business relationship with two others?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Do the three in business relationship work at the same place? Not all. Do the same kind of job? No. Work for the same person? No. Does one of the three have a higher position than the others? Yes.
Are the three with the business relationship R Yes., L and Jill? R, L and Task Yes.? R, Jill and Task? Is Jake in the business relationship with two others? Yes - with R, and the relation has already been established - R was supposed to help him with selling the estate.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2013 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Early in the puzzle, you state that "if Jill hadn't gotten the flowers, Jake wouldn't have died, at least not then." But Jake isn't aware of Jill's existence, right? So Task knows about the flowers, because she saw R give them to Jill? Or heard about the act of giving the flowers? And if R hadn't given flowers to Jill, no one would know that R had a romantic interest in Jill?

Does the act of R giving flowers to Jill somehow alert Task that R will no longer be helping Jake?
Does it make Task aware of some action that L will take?

Does anyone else besides Jake die? Does R talk to L after he gives flowers to Jill? Does anyone talk to L after this happens? Does L communicate in any way with any relevant person after R gives the flowers?

So out of R, L and Task, two of these work together? If so, R and L? R and Task? L and Task?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, February 22, 2013 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Early in the puzzle, you state that "if Jill hadn't gotten the flowers, Jake wouldn't have died, at least not then." But Jake isn't aware of Jill's existence, right? Right.
So Task knows about the flowers, because she saw R give them to Jill? No, assume she made a good guess, using some knowledge about R. Or heard about the act of giving the flowers? No. And if R hadn't given flowers to Jill, no one would know that R had a romantic interest in Jill? That's false. Some people already knew, other did not need to know at all.

Does the act of R giving flowers to Jill somehow alert Task that R will no longer be helping Jake? No. Does it make Task aware of some action that L will take? No.

Does anyone else besides Jake die? No. Does R talk to L after he gives flowers to Jill? Probably yes, not relevant. Does anyone talk to L after this happens? Not relevant. Does L communicate in any way with any relevant person after R gives the flowers? No, L just exists and is jealous. She does not say anything relevant nor takes any relevant actions.

So out of R, L and Task, two of these work together? If so, R and L? R and Task? This. L and Task?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, February 22, 2013 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relationship between Task and R limited only to work? Or are they otherwise related?
Does R work for Task? Does Task work for R? Or do they just work at the same place, but neither has a position above the other one?
Does L see the flowers that R is going to give to Jill? Does L think the flowers are for her (L)?
Does L have the same kind of job as Task? As R?
Was R planning to move to another place, thus would be prevented from working with Jake because it would be out of his jurisdiction? Was Jill going to convince R to not help Jake?
Does R know that L is jealous of his relationship with Jill?
Is R married? If so, to L? To someone else? To Task? If R and Task aren't married, had they ever been in a romantic relationship in the past?
Is either L or Jill pregnant?
Does Jake come to R's office to meet with R, and gets the bad news from Task?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Is the relationship between Task and R limited only to work? Yes. Or are they otherwise related? No.
Does R work for Task? No. Does Task work for R? Yes. Or do they just work at the same place, but neither has a position above the other one? No.
Does L see the flowers that R is going to give to Jill? No. Does L think the flowers are for her (L)? No.
Does L have the same kind of job as Task? No. As R? No.
Was R planning to move to another place, thus would be prevented from working with Jake because it would be out of his jurisdiction? No. Was Jill going to convince R to not help Jake? No, but OTRT.
Does R know that L is jealous of his relationship with Jill? Yes and that's relevant.
Is R married? Yes. If so, to L? Yes. To someone else? To Task? If R and Task aren't married, had they ever been in a romantic relationship in the past? No to the rest.
Is either L or Jill pregnant? No to both.
Does Jake come to R's office to meet with R, and gets the bad news from Task? No, Task informed Jake via phone.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Task, and other people, know that R is romantically pursuing Jill even though he's married to L?
Does R plan to divorce L? Or carry on an affair with Jill while staying married to L?
Do R and Jill expect L to take legal action against R? File for divorce? Sue him?
Is R planning to take some kind of action to protect himself against legal action from L? And if so, does this action mean he can no longer assist Jake?
Does Jill make any suggestion to R about ending relationships with current clients?
Is Jill a lawyer? Does she know L? Is she L's lawyer? R's lawyer?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
So Task, and other people, know that R is romantically pursuing Jill even though he's married to L? Yes.
Does R plan to divorce L? Noone knows for sure. Or carry on an affair with Jill while staying married to L? Probably this.
Do R and Jill expect L to take legal action against R? No. File for divorce? No. Sue him? No.
Is R planning to take some kind of action to protect himself against legal action from L? Yesish. But that may be misleading... And if so, does this action mean he can no longer assist Jake? Yesish, OTRT.
Does Jill make any suggestion to R about ending relationships with current clients? No.
Is Jill a lawyer? Not yet. Does she know L? No. Is she L's lawyer? R's lawyer? No to both.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, February 25, 2013 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Jill know that R is married? Does she care?
Is Jill's job relevant? Is her age relevant? Is she a student?
Does Task hear R say something that causes her to contact Jake?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Does Jill know that R is married? Yes. Does she care? No.
Is Jill's job relevant? No. Is her age relevant? No. Is she a student? Yes.
Does Task hear R say something that causes her to contact Jake? Yes, but...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is the main thing to determine why R couldn't help Jake anymore?
Is it only Jake that R will no longer be helping? Or other clients as well?
Does Task lose her job at some point?
Does R plan to hire Jill?
Is there a complicated reason why R will no longer assist Jake? Is the reason related to L?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
So is the main thing to determine why R couldn't help Jake anymore? He could, but decided not to. Yes, this is the only important aspect to find out.
Is it only Jake that R will no longer be helping? This. Or other clients as well? No.
Does Task lose her job at some point? No.
Does R plan to hire Jill? Possibly but not relevant.
Is there a complicated reason why R will no longer assist Jake? No. Is the reason related to L? Yes, very much. It is also relevant that Jake lives in another location than R lives and works (HINT).
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does R not want to travel to visit Jake anymore?
Does Jill live near Jake? Or in the same town/area as R?
Do R and L live together?
Is R going to pretend that Jill is a new client of his, so that L won't get jealous that he is spending time with her?
Does Jill work at a place near where R works? And R is planning trysts with Jill so he won't have time to travel out to Jake? Anything like this?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ixoye724:
Does R not want to travel to visit Jake anymore? No.
Does Jill live near Jake? No. Or in the same town/area as R? Yes.
Do R and L live together? Yes.
Is R going to pretend that Jill is a new client of his, so that L won't get jealous that he is spending time with her? No, but OTRT.
Does Jill work at a place near where R works? No, but she lives very close. And R is planning trysts with Jill so he won't have time to travel out to Jake? Yes, that is close enough. Anything like this?

************SPOILER**************
The lawyer, R, has a romantic relationship with Jill, despite of having a wife, L. L is jealous about this relationship. One day, R has appointed meeting with Jake, who lives out the city, to help him with complex case concerning selling Jake's estate. But then R realizes that appointed meeting in another location is a good reason to meet with Jill and not arise L's suspicion why he's not in the office. So he asks his assistant, Task, to inform Jake that the meeting will not take place that day. He goes to Jill and gives her flowers. Jake gets nervous about the situation, gets heart attack and dies.


Thanks for playing and special thanks for Ixoye724 for sticking with it to the end.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now your hints make sense! Great puzzle!

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