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Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 2045
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sheila opened a window. This saved live three times and made four people happy.

This is based on a short story - if you know the story, please let others play.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5456
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it save: one life three times? Three lives one time? Some other combination? Were the four people happy for the same reason? Happy because lives were saved? Because the windows was opened? Sheila: H? A? F? Window: glass-covered opening? In a wall? In her home? Did the window: let in something relevant? Let out something relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2054
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did it save: one life three times? Three lives one time? Some other combination? This - one life twice and another one once. Were the four people happy for the same reason? Yes. It may be also regarded as two reasons, but closely connected. Happy because lives were saved? Two people - yes, but that's not all. Two people - not directly. Because the windows was opened? No. Sheila: H? A? F? Yes. Window: glass-covered opening? Yes. In a wall? Yes. In her home? Yes. Did the window: let in something relevant? Noish. Let out something relevant? No.
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 450
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were people suffering from lack of oxygen? Were the lives saved people? was it smoke inhalation?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3939
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was opening the window a signal?

did it let somebody in?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5465
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 7:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she hear something relevant through the window? Did someone else hear something relevant? Did she take any relevant action in addition to opening the window? Are two of the happy people the same people as the two whose lives were saved?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2059
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 9:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes:
Were people suffering from lack of oxygen? No. Were the lives saved people? Yes. was it smoke inhalation? No.

Shez:
was opening the window a signal? Sort of, OTRT.

did it let somebody in? Yes, explore.

Galfisk:
Did she hear something relevant through the window? No. Did someone else hear something relevant? No. Did she take any relevant action in addition to opening the window? No. Are two of the happy people the same people as the two whose lives were saved? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5468
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did something interact with the window? Did the open window prevent something from getting somewhere? From falling down? Is a scaffold involved? Is falling from the roof relevant? Any window washers involved? Ladders? are the other happy people: bosses of the ones who were saved? colleagues? Friends? Family? Is Sheila one of the: happy people? Saved people?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2064
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did something interact with the window? No. Did the open window prevent something from getting somewhere? Something - no. From falling down? No. Is a scaffold involved? No. Is falling from the roof relevant? No. Any window washers involved? No. Ladders? No. are the other happy people: bosses of the ones who were saved? colleagues? Friends? Family? One was family. Other was not (yet) related. Is Sheila one of the: happy people? Yes. Saved people? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5473
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the window: allow someone to get somewhere? To get in? Get out? Prevent someone from getting somewhere? allow something to happen? prevent something from happening? Would it have worked, if the windows had been covered by a mosquito net? Is the reason why she opened it relevant? Was she saved twice? Was the other one saved twice? Were they all: H? A? M except for Sheila? Not yet related = later related by marriage?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2067
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did the window: allow someone to get somewhere? Yes. To get in? Yes. Get out? No. Prevent someone from getting somewhere? Yes. allow something to happen? Yes. prevent something from happening? Yes. Would it have worked, if the windows had been covered by a mosquito net? Yes, if they stay open. Is the reason why she opened it relevant? Yope. Was she saved twice? No. Was the other one saved twice? Yes. Were they all: H? A? M except for Sheila? No, two HAM, one other HAF and Sheila - HAF. Not yet related = later related by marriage? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5476
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The person saved: HAM? HAF? Did Sheila get married? Did the other HAF? Were the lives saved: at three different occasions? Two? Did someone get in through the open window? Did one person get in? More than one? Are there any people relevant besides the four already mentioned?

Saved from: fall? Impact? Murder? Cold? Heat? Wind? Drowning? Suicide? Poisoning? Fire? Suffocation? Choking? Blood loss? Brain injury? Heart attack? Other circulatory system issue? Disease? An animal?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2070
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
The person saved: HAM? This. HAF? Did Sheila get married? No. Did the other HAF? Yes. Were the lives saved: at three different occasions? Two? This. Did someone get in through the open window? No. Did one person get in? More than one? This. Are there any people relevant besides the four already mentioned? Yes, one HAM.

Saved from: fall? Impact? Murder? Cold? Heat? Wind? Drowning? Suicide? This. Poisoning? Fire? Suffocation? Choking? Blood loss? Brain injury? Heart attack? Other circulatory system issue? Disease? An animal?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5479
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Profession of the four relevant? Of the one? Suicide method relevant? Were they physically hindered from committing suicide? Did they change their minds about killing themselves? Is a suicide pact relevant? The people who got in: did they get into the room with the open window? Did they get in by a: door? Different window? Hole? Other opening?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2077
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Profession of the four relevant? No. Of the one? No. Suicide method relevant? Yes - for the saved HAM Were they physically hindered from committing suicide? No, with an ish to the saved HAM. Did they change their minds about killing themselves? Yes. Is a suicide pact relevant? No. The people who got in: did they get into the room with the open window? Could have been. Irr. Did they get in by a: door? This. Different window? Hole? Other opening?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5484
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they change their mind because they: heard something? saw something? Felt something, physically? Emotionally? Smelled something? Tasted something? Went somewhere? Spoke to someone relevant? Got spoken to by someone relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2078
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did they change their mind because they: heard something? saw something? Felt something, physically? Emotionally? Smelled something? Tasted something? Went somewhere? Spoke to someone relevant? This. Got spoken to by someone relevant? And this.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5492
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they speak to: any of the four? The fifth person? Would they not had spoken to the person, had the window been closed? Did the would-be suiciders see the windows being opened? Did they see it standing open?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2088
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2013 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did they speak to: any of the four? Yes. The fifth person? Yes. Would they not had spoken to the person, had the window been closed? Yes. Did the would-be suiciders see the windows being opened? No. Did they see it standing open? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5500
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Posted on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sheila suicidal when she opened the window? Did she open it in order to commit suicide? Did she speak to: suicidal HAM? Happy HAF? Happy HAM? Fifth person? Did she speak: before opening the window? During? Directly after? Some time after?
Did it save her life twice? Suicidal HAMs life twice?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2098
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Posted on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Was Sheila suicidal when she opened the window? She planned suicide in near future. Did she open it in order to commit suicide? No.
Did she speak to: suicidal HAM? Later. Happy HAF? Happy HAM? Fifth person? Earlier. Did she speak: before opening the window? During? Directly after? Some time after? This.
Did it save her life twice? Suicidal HAMs life twice?
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 18433
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Posted on Friday, March 01, 2013 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suicide method of HAM: gunshot? Slit throat? Slit wrist? Hanging? Jumping off a building/structure? Poison?
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 471
Registered: 11-2012
Posted on Saturday, March 02, 2013 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have we pursued that the window is a computer window?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2107
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:
Suicide method of HAM: gunshot? Slit throat? Slit wrist? Hanging? Jumping off a building/structure? This, jumping off a structure. Poison?

Deholmes:
Have we pursued that the window is a computer window? No, window is an ordinary glass structure in the wall of a house.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 18442
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 6:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the HAM going to jump out the window?

You know, "the HAM" doesn't sound right. Can we name him?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 5950
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I vote for naming him David
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2111
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Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2013 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:
Was the HAM going to jump out the window? No.

You know, "the HAM" doesn't sound right. Can we name him? Sure.

Kayleetonkslupin:
I vote for naming him David OK. So we have the suicidal woman Sheila, the man who wanted to commit suicide David, and two other happy people: Joan and Richard.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5531
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Posted on Tuesday, March 05, 2013 - 4:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was David going to jump from: the building with the window? Another building? A scaffold? Another structure? Relevant what structure he would be jumping from? Was he saved twice? Or was Sheila saved twice? Were two lives saved first, then one? Or one first, then two?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2125
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Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - 9:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Was David going to jump from: the building with the window? Another building? A scaffold? Another structure? None of the above. Relevant what structure he would be jumping from? From a cliff. Was he saved twice? Yes. Or was Sheila saved twice? No. Were two lives saved first, then one? Or one first, then two? First David for the first time, then Sheila and David for the second time.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5535
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Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did David walk to the cliff? Was he going to jump off a cliff both times? If so, the same cliff? When he was saved the first time, did he decide to: not kill himself at all? Not kill himself at that particular time? Did he interact with Sheila in a relevant way? Did they know each other?
Is a reflection from the window relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2127
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Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did David walk to the cliff? Yes. Was he going to jump off a cliff both times? Yes. If so, the same cliff? Yes. When he was saved the first time, did he decide to: not kill himself at all? Not kill himself at that particular time? This. Did he interact with Sheila in a relevant way? Yes. Did they know each other? Yes, but...
Is a reflection from the window relevant? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5536
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Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he interact with Sheila: before going to the cliff the first time+ While at the cliff? Between the first and second time at the cliff? After the second time?
Do they: like each other? Hate each other? Unrequited love relevant? If so: from his side? Hers?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2128
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Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did he interact with Sheila: before going to the cliff the first time+ This, but... While at the cliff? Between the first and second time at the cliff? After the second time? This-ish.
Do they: like each other? OTRT. Hate each other? No. Unrequited love relevant? Yes. If so: from his side? Hers? Both.
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 494
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Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Romeo and Juliet situation with the parents? was it to be a lover's leap? Did opening a window enable communication that stopped the leap? Did they hear music or something through the open window?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2132
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes:
Romeo and Juliet situation with the parents? No. was it to be a lover's leap? No. Did opening a window enable communication that stopped the leap? Indirectly, yes. Did they hear music or something through the open window? No.
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 506
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they hear people talking inside the building?
Was it about them?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2142
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Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes:
Did they hear people talking inside the building?
Was it about them? No to both. They did not hear anything relevant from inside the building.
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 520
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Posted on Monday, March 11, 2013 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there an emergency in the building? fire?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes:
was there an emergency in the building? fire? No to both.
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she open the window from the inside or outside?
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 532
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Posted on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she open the window from the inside or outside?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes:
Did she open the window from the inside or outside? Inside.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it have worked: if someone else opened the window? If it was opened earlier? Later? If it was opened from the outside? If it was broken instead of opened? did it stay open for the duration of the puzzle? Relevant how long it stayed open? Is the act of opening it relevant? Is the fact that it was open afterwards relevant? Was she seen by someone relevant when she opened the window? Reflections from the window glass relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, March 18, 2013 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Would it have worked: if someone else opened the window? Yes. If it was opened earlier? Yesish, depends how much earlier. Later? Noish, depends how much later. If it was opened from the outside? Yes. If it was broken instead of opened? Possibly. did it stay open for the duration of the puzzle? No. Relevant how long it stayed open? Not how long. Is the act of opening it relevant? Noish. Is the fact that it was open afterwards relevant? Please rephrase. Was she seen by someone relevant when she opened the window? No. Reflections from the window glass relevant? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant who closed the window? When? Why? How?
To rephrase: the action of opening the window is not that relevant right? but the fact that the windows is open, is relevant? Letting heat in relevant? Or letting heat out?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Relevant who closed the window? No. When? This is relevant to some extent. Why? No. How? No.
To rephrase: the action of opening the window is not that relevant right? Yes. but the fact that the windows is open, is relevant? Yes. Letting heat in relevant? No. Or letting heat out? No.

HINT: You may like to explore the timing and the role of the fifth man.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the fifth man at any time: outside the window? In the room with the window? Does the window being open affect him in a relevant way? Is it relevant how the window opens? If so: outwards? Inwards? Upwards? Sideways? One bit sticking in and another out? some other way? Relevant what's in the room with the window? Relevant what's outside the window? Would they both have died if the window ad stayed open? Or would one of them have died and the other been saved? If so, would Sheila have died?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is the fifth man at any time: outside the window? Yes. In the room with the window? Yes. Does the window being open affect him in a relevant way? Yes. Is it relevant how the window opens? No. If so: outwards? Inwards? Upwards? Sideways? One bit sticking in and another out? some other way? Relevant what's in the room with the window? No. Relevant what's outside the window? Yes. Would they both have died if the window ad stayed open? No, if the window have stayed open all the time, they would have probably both been saved. The situation would have been then completely different. Or would one of them have died and the other been saved? If so, would Sheila have died?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5643
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Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it affect him when he's: outside? Inside? Does he live in the house with the window? Does anyone else of the involved live there?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does it affect him when he's: outside? This. Inside? Does he live in the house with the window? No. Does anyone else of the involved live there? Yes, Sheila. Good question.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5648
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he go inside to speak to Sheila? Does he take the open window as a sign that she is home? Does he hear anything relevant through the window? See anything relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2224
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does he go inside Yes. to speak to Sheila But this is not his intent.? Does he take the open window as a sign that she is home? The fifth man - no. Does he hear anything relevant through the window? No. See anything relevant? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5649
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the fifth man speak to Sheila? Does he go inside to do a job? Does David take the open window as a sign that Sheila is home? Does anyone else?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2227
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does the fifth man speak to Sheila? Yes. Does he go inside to do a job? No. Does David take the open window as a sign that Sheila is home? Yes. Does anyone else? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5650
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the fifth man go inside to: put something there? Take something away? Speak to someone else? Is he a mailman? Does David also go inside? Does David meed the fifth man inside? Or outside?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2229
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does the fifth man go inside to: put something there? Take something away? Speak to someone else? Is he a mailman? No to these. Does David also go inside? Yes. Does David meed the fifth man inside? Or outside? Outside.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5656
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant why the fifth man goes inside? does he meet David: before going in? After coming out? Did David come there to meet Sheila? Did he go there because he saw the open window? Because he took it as an indication that she was home? Was he saved from suicide by this meeting with the fifth man? Did he speak with the fifth man? Did all three met at once? Was Sheila saved once by speaking with the fifth man at this time?

Is the reason Sheila wants to kill herself relevant?
Is the reason David wants to kill herself relevant?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5657
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Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 8:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Himself, not herself. Too much copypasta.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2235
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is it relevant why the fifth man goes inside? Yes. does he meet David: before going in? Yes. After coming out? Yes. Did David come there to meet Sheila? No. Did he go there because he saw the open window? Yes. Because he took it as an indication that she was home? YES. Was he saved from suicide by this meeting with the fifth man? Yes. Did he speak with the fifth man? Yes. Did all three met at once? No. Was Sheila saved once by speaking with the fifth man at this time? Only indirectly.

Is the reason Sheila wants to kill herself relevant? Yes.
Is the reason David wants to kill himself relevant? Yes.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2275
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Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP & some hints:
Sheila opened the window in her house and because of this Sheila and David did not commit suicide (David - twice) and Joan and Richard were happy (got married). Richard was Sheila's family (more information about connections between people would help).
David was saved first.
There is relevant fifth man - complete stranger to Sheila, David, Joan and Richard.
During timeframes of the puzzle, the fifth man and David entered the house. The only direct reason why they entered the house was that the window was open (this meaning Sheila was home).
David wanted to commit suicide by jumping off the cliff.
Opening the window was sort of a signal (it was an indication that Sheila was home), it enabled communication and caused fifth man and David to get into the house (though noone entered the house through the window!).
Establishing the order of events may be very helpful.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5710
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does David and the fifth man enter the house together? Do they interact in a relevant way inside the house? Relevant exactly what the fifth man does inside? Does he do what he intended to do when he came to the house?
Does he intend to: look at something? Speak to someone? Is his profession relevant? Is going there part of his job? Does anyone else live in the house? If so, are they relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2303
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Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does David and the fifth man enter the house together? No, good q. Do they interact in a relevant way inside the house? No. Relevant exactly what the fifth man does inside? Yes. Does he do what he intended to do when he came to the house? He entered the house with no specific intention.
Does he intend to: look at something? Speak to someone? He speaks with Sheila - but it was not his intention. Is his profession relevant? No. Is going there part of his job? No. Does anyone else live in the house? Yope. If so, are they relevant? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5712
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the fifth man live in the house? Does a relevant animal live there?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2304
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, April 12, 2013 - 8:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does the fifth man live in the house? No. Does a relevant animal live there? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5750
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to know more about the house itself? Is the house for sale? Is it an apartment building? Has the person yopishly living there been mentioned yet?
Unrequited love has been mentioned. Is that the reason Sheila wants to kill herself? Is that the reason David wants to kill himself? Does David have the same reason (unrequited love for the same person) both times?
Is his love actually unrequited? Or does he only think so? Same questions for Sheila.
Are the targets of their loves any of the people mentioned? Any dead people relevant?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5751
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By "people mentioned", I mean the five people explicitly mentioned so far in the puzzle.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2326
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Do we need to know more about the house itself? One tiny piece is only relevant about the house. Is the house for sale? No. Is it an apartment building? No, more like villa. Has the person yopishly living there been mentioned yet? Yes.
Unrequited love has been mentioned. Is that the reason Sheila wants to kill herself? No. Is that the reason David wants to kill himself? No. Does David have the same reason (unrequited love for the same person) both times? Yes, but not unrequited love. At least not as only and not primary reason.
Is his love actually unrequited? No. Or does he only think so? Yes. Same questions for Sheila. Same answers.
Are the targets of their loves any of the people mentioned? Yes. Any dead people relevant? No.
By "people mentioned", I mean the five people explicitly mentioned so far in the puzzle.
Some good fields for exploration were open by these questions.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5755
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Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Sheila love David? Does David love Sheila?
Person yopisly living in the same house as Sheila: David? Joan? Richard? Fifth person?
Yopisly living: moved out? Moving in? Visiting a lot? Living there and another place?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2334
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Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does Sheila love David? Does David love Sheila? Yes to both.
Person yopisly living in the same house as Sheila: David? Joan? Richard? This. Fifth person?
Yopisly living: moved out? This and... Moving in? Visiting a lot? Living there and another place? ..this. Generally living in the same house as Sheila but now away for longer period of time.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5771
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Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Richard related to Sheila? If so: Is he her son? Father? Brother? Other relative? Husband? Former husband? Lover? Former lover? Landlord? Tenant? Friend?
Is he ever relevantly near or inside during the puzzle? Does anyone relevantly think he's there when he's not?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2344
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Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is Richard related to Sheila? Yes. If so: Is he her son? This. Father? Brother? Other relative? Husband? Former husband? Lover? Former lover? Landlord? Tenant? Friend?
Is he ever relevantly near or inside during the puzzle? No. He is relevant only by his existence and relations. Does anyone relevantly think he's there when he's not? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5775
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Sheila's suicidal thoughts related to him? Is David Richard's father? Is someone else mentioned in the puzzle Richard's father? If not, is his father relevant? Dead? Divorced?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2348
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Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is Sheila's suicidal thoughts related to him? Yes, explore. Is David Richard's father? Yes, but... Is someone else mentioned in the puzzle Richard's father? If not, is his father relevant? The father is relevant. Dead? No, but... Divorced? No, but...
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5781
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Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Sheila think David doesn't love her anymore? Does David think Sheila doesn't love him anymore? Are they separated? Have they had a fight? Has any of them had a fight with Richard? Do they live in different places? Does Richard alternate living with his father and mother? Does Richard have his own home?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2353
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Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does Sheila think David doesn't love her anymore? Does David think Sheila doesn't love him anymore? They don't know. Imagine a two-week summer affair. Are they separated? See above. Have they had a fight? No. Has any of them had a fight with Richard? No. Do they live in different places? Yes. Does Richard alternate living with his father and mother? No, because... Does Richard have his own home? No. At the time of the puzzle he is probably studying or travelling, so he lives somewhere else.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5790
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Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Sheila depressed because of something Richard: said? Did? Because he's gone? Because of something that's not true? Is David depressed for the same reason as Sheila?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2360
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Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is Sheila depressed because of something Richard: said? This, but may mislead. Did? Because he's gone? Because of something that's not true? Is David depressed for the same reason as Sheila? No to the rest.
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 18503
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Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 3:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does David know he is Richard's father? Does Sheila know?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2366
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Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:
Does David know he is Richard's father? No, good q. Does Sheila know? Yes, but...
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5796
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Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Richard know? Does Richard want Sheila to be depressed? Suicidal? Does Richard want to know who his father is? Does Richard want to meet his father?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2367
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Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does Richard know? No. Does Richard want Sheila to be depressed? No. Suicidal? No. Does Richard want to know who his father is? Yes. Does Richard want to meet his father? No, explore.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5801
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Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Richard: hate his father? Fear him? Have no interest in him?
Does Sheila want Richard to know? does she want David to know? Is she depressed because Richard doesn't want to meet his father? Does Richard want to interact with his father in some other way?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2377
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Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does Richard: hate his father? No. Fear him? No. Have no interest in him? The opposite.
Does Sheila want Richard to know? NO. Good q. does she want David to know? Yope, explore. Is she depressed because Richard doesn't want to meet his father? The opposite. Does Richard want to interact with his father in some other way? Other than what? Richard just wants to know who his father was.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5806
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Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the reason she doesn't want Richard to know relevant? Is she depressed because Richard wants to know but she doesn't want him to?
Is she afraid of how David would react if he knew? Does she want a second chance with him? Does she think it would ruin her chances with him if he knew?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2383
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Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is the reason she doesn't want Richard to know relevant? Yes, and it has already been mentioned. Is she depressed because Richard wants to know but she doesn't want him to? Yes.
Is she afraid of how David would react if he knew? No. Does she want a second chance with him? Probably she would... Does she think it would ruin her chances with him if he knew? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5815
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Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the reason Richard is outside the house relevant? Does he want to:meet Sheila? Catch a glimpse of Sheila? Speak to her?
Does he overhear the conversation between Sheila and the fifth man?
Does he get to know that he has a son during the puzzle? If so: before going to the cliff the first time? When he's there the first time? Between the first and the second time? when he's there the second time? After the second time?
If he gets to know, does this knowledge: save him? Make him want to kill himself? Relevant how he gets to know?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2389
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Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:

I assume you meant David in these questions.
Is the reason Richard is outside the house relevant? Yes. Does he want to:meet Sheila? \Catch a glimpse of Sheila? Speak to her? No. He wanted to commit suicide. Maybe he just wanted to see the house.
Does he overhear the conversation between Sheila and the fifth man? No.
Does he get to know that he has a son during the puzzle? Yes. If so: before going to the cliff the first time? No. When he's there the first time? No. Between the first and the second time? No. when he's there the second time? Yes. After the second time? No.
If he gets to know, does this knowledge: save him? Yes. Make him want to kill himself? No. Relevant how he gets to know? Sheila tells him.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5819
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Posted on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks for assuming, I'm tired.
Does he and Sheila meet at the cliff the second time? Do they get to talking instead of (or before) killing themselves, realizing that they both love each other, and he gets to know he has a son, giving them both reason to live?
Does David go to the cliff for the first time after being at Sheila's house? Does something the fifth man says keep him from killing himself this time? Or something the fifth man does? Is he saved the first time before going to the cliff? Or does the saving word or action happen at the cliff the first time as well? Is the fifth man at the cliff the first time?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2392
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Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Does he and Sheila meet at the cliff the second time? Yes, but... Do they get to talking instead of (or before) killing themselves, realizing that they both love each other, and he gets to know he has a son, giving them both reason to live? Exactly so. We're almost done with the second saving, except the "but" in the first question.
Does David go to the cliff for the first time after being at Sheila's house? No, except having been there years ago. Does something the fifth man says keep him from killing himself this time? Or something the fifth man does? Just the fifth man's presence. David just did not want to jump in other person's presence. Is he saved the first time before going to the cliff? No. Or does the saving word or action happen at the cliff the first time as well? Yes. Is the fifth man at the cliff the first time? Yes.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5833
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Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant how close her house is to the cliff? Relevant why the fifth man goes to the cliff? Would he not have gone there, had he not spoken to Sheila first?
Does David and Sheila meet on the second attempt: on top of the cliff? On the way there? At the bottom? does one need to pass the bottom to get to the top? Does one go there because they see the other there? Is one at the top and the other at the bottom, when they notice each other? Did one of them get there first? If so: David? Sheila?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Relevant how close her house is to the cliff? Yes. Relevant why the fifth man goes to the cliff? No. Would he not have gone there, had he not spoken to Sheila first? He was on the cliff before having spoken to Sheila.
Does David and Sheila meet on the second attempt: on top of the cliff? This, but... On the way there? At the bottom? does one need to pass the bottom to get to the top? Does one go there because they see the other there? Is one at the top and the other at the bottom, when they notice each other? These are no. Did one of them get there first? Yes, Sheila. If so: David? Sheila?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5837
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Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2013 - 3:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the house at the top of the cliff? Bottom? Can you see the cliff from the house? Can you see if anyone jumps from the house?
Did David go to the cliff the second time, because he saw Sheila there? If she hadn't been there, would he have gone and jumped at that time?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2402
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Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is the house at the top of the cliff? This. Bottom? Can you see the cliff from the house? Yes. Can you see if anyone jumps from the house? Probably. Not relevant. One could certainly see the house being on the cliff, which is more relevant.
Did David go to the cliff the second time, because he saw Sheila there? No. If she hadn't been there, would he have gone and jumped at that time? Yesish, OTRT. Reading the puzzle sentence again could be helpful here.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5848
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Posted on Thursday, April 25, 2013 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time elapsed between the first and second saving: seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Years?
Did David leave the cliff when he was saved the first time? did he wait there for the fifth man to go away? Did he go inside the house instead of killing himself? Would he have gone inside, if the fifth man hadn't been there? If the fifth man had been there, but not gone inside (but the window had been open)?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2405
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Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Time elapsed between the first and second saving: seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? This. Weeks? Months? Years?
Did David leave the cliff when he was saved the first time? Yes. did he wait there for the fifth man to go away? No. Did he go inside the house instead of killing himself? Yes, when? Would he have gone inside, if the fifth man hadn't been there? Yes but be careful. If the fifth man had been there, but not gone inside (but the window had been open)? Please rephrase.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Dave go inside: after he arrived at the cliff, but before the fifth man went inside? While the fifth man was inside? After the fifth man came out, but before Dave left the cliff? The second time he came to the cliff? Was the window open the second time Dave came to the cliff?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 11:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did Dave go inside: after he arrived at the cliff, but before the fifth man went inside? No. While the fifth man was inside? No. After the fifth man came out Yes..., but before Dave left the cliff? No. The second time he came to the cliff? Yes. Was the window open the second time Dave came to the cliff? YES.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Let me see if I've got this so far:
1. Dave heads to the cliff to kill himself
2. Sheila opens a window in her house on the cliff
3. Since the window is open, person 5 knows sheila is home and comes to the house
4. Dave doesn't want to kill himself with person 5 around, so he leaves
5. Dave returns to the cliff a few days later
6. When he arrives, Sheila's window is open (either still open, or open again)
7. Dave meets with Sheila (does he go in? Does she come out? Is she already out when he arrives?)
8. Dave and Sheila get to talking, and decide not to kill themselves
All good?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 26, 2013 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Let me see if I've got this so far:
1. Dave heads to the cliff to kill himself
2. Sheila opens a window in her house on the cliff
3. Since the window is open, person 5 knows sheila is home and comes to the house This is not exact.
4. Dave doesn't want to kill himself with person 5 around, so he leaves
5. Dave returns to the cliff a few days later
6. When he arrives, Sheila's window is open (either still open, or open again)
7. Dave meets with Sheila (does he go in? Yes. Does she come out? Is she already out when he arrives?)
8. Dave and Sheila get to talking, and decide not to kill themselves
All good? Yes. There is couple of details missing. And Person 5 is more active than you described it.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is the reason why person 5 came to the house important? Is it important what he and Sheila talked about? Did he and Dave also speak? If so, is it important what they talked about? Does person 5 have anything to do with Richard?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Galfisk:
Is the reason why person 5 came to the house important? Yes and it was already mentioned. Is it important what he and Sheila talked about? Yes. Did he and Dave also speak? Yes. If so, is it important what they talked about? Yes. Does person 5 have anything to do with Richard? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Did 5 and Sheila speak about: objects? People? Future? Past? Present? Problems? Feelings? Solutions? Relationships? Places? Events?
Same questions for 5 and Dave.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2013 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Did 5 and Sheila speak about: objects? People? Future? Past? This. Present? This. Problems? This. Feelings? Solutions? Relationships? This. Places? This. Events? This.
Same questions for 5 and Dave.
Present, problems, feelings, relationships, places and events.

In general, person 5 spoke with Sheila and Dave about their current living situations. With Sheila he spoke also about the past.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 04, 2013 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINTS: The fifth man wanted Sheila to do something relevant.
What happened on the cliff enabled Joan and Richard to get married.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Did the fifth man want Sheila to: buy something? Sell something? Interact with someone? Interact with an object? Do Joan and Richard fear that they might be related?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Galfisk:
Did the fifth man want Sheila to: buy something? Sell something? Interact with someone? Interact with an object? This. Do Joan and Richard fear that they might be related? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Object: a machine? Something electrical? Something in her house? The house itself? Did 5 bring the relevant object? During the event at the cliff, are Joan and Richard: strangers? Friends? Partners? Lovers? Engaged? Are any of them involved with someone else?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Galfisk:
Object: a machine? Something electrical? Something in her house? This. See the title. The house itself? Did 5 bring the relevant object? No. During the event at the cliff, are Joan and Richard: strangers? Friends? Partners? Lovers? Engaged? This. Are any of them involved with someone else? No.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Did he want her to interact with the window? close it? Open it? Clean it? Break it? Remove it? Weather relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Galfisk:
Did he want her to interact with the window? Yes. close it? Open it? Yes. Clean it? Break it? Remove it? Weather relevant?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Did the fifth person want her to open the window so that he could talk to her? So that she could see (or talk to) David? Did David even see the fifth person before he (the 5th person) went into Sheila's house?

At the time the fifth person went into Sheila's house, did he know that David was planning to jump? Did he want to get help for David? Did he think that Sheila was driving him to suicide, therefore why he asked about her problems? Did the fifth person, in fact, EVER learn that David was planning suicide? or did David keep this completely to himself?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd:
Did the fifth person want her to open the window so that he could talk to her? No. So that she could see (or talk to) David? Yes. Did David even see the fifth person before he (the 5th person) went into Sheila's house? No.

At the time the fifth person went into Sheila's house, did he know that David was planning to jump? No. Did he want to get help for David? Later, yes. Did he think that Sheila was driving him to suicide, therefore why he asked about her problems? No. Did the fifth person, in fact, EVER learn that David was planning suicide? Yes. or did David keep this completely to himself? No.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sort of RECAP:
1. Dave heads to the cliff to kill himself.
2. Sheila opens a window in her house on the cliff
3. Since the window is open, person 5 comes to the house.
4. Dave doesn't want to kill himself with person 5 around, so he leaves.
5. Dave returns to the cliff a few days later
6. When he arrives, Sheila's window is open, because Person 5 asked her to open it that day. Person 5 wanted to get help for David and he wanted David and Sheila to talk.
7. Dave goes into the house and meets with Sheila.
8. Dave and Sheila get to talking, and decide not to kill themselves. (Why?)
9. These events enable Joan and Richard to get married (or at least make it easier and happier.

Person 5 was aware that David and Sheila wanted to commit suicide. Family relations between David, Sheila and Richard are important.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 8:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There's a lot missing from that recap about the relations between the people, so I will add that here (both as a recap and as a check). Then I will ask some more questions.

10. David and Sheila used to love each other. However, now they each doubt that the other still loves them.
11. Sheila is Richard's mother, and David is his father, BUT
12. Richard doesn't know David is his father, and neither does David know that Richard is his son.
13. Sheila doesn't want Richard to know, but Richard wants to know. It is unclear whether Sheila wants David to know.
14. Richard does not live with his mother (Sheila) most of the time anymore.


So, on to the questions:
Do David? and Sheila? each come to realize that the other still loves them during the conversation in the house? If so, does this come about because David truthfully admits his reason for wanting to commit suicide? or, is it more indirectly brought up in the conversation?

Is it easier for Joan and Richard to get married because David is able to be present at the wedding, as Richard's father? And, before I make a FA, let me check--the conversation between Sheila and David DOES lead David to conclude that he is also the father, correct?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2013 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd:


First, some amendments to the recap and check:
10. David and Sheila used to love each other. Yes. However, now they each doubt that the other still loves them. This is not totally exact. Explore.
11. Sheila is Richard's mother, and David is his father, Yes. BUT
12. Richard doesn't know David is his father, and neither does David know that Richard is his son. Yes.
13. Sheila doesn't want Richard to know No, at least it is not exact., but Richard wants to know. It is unclear whether Sheila wants David to know. Explore.
14. Richard does not live with his mother (Sheila) most of the time anymore. Yes.

So, on to the questions:
Do David? and Sheila? each come to realize that the other still loves them during the conversation in the house? Yope to both, explore. If so, does this come about because David truthfully admits his reason for wanting to commit suicide? No. or, is it more indirectly brought up in the conversation? No.

Is it easier for Joan and Richard to get married because David is able to be present at the wedding, as Richard's father? No, but somehow OTRT. And, before I make a FA, let me check--the conversation between Sheila and David DOES lead David to conclude that he is also the father, correct? Yes, Sheila tells him.
Hardcore (Hardcore)
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Posted on Friday, August 23, 2013 - 3:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the fifth man a smoker?
Hardcore (Hardcore)
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Posted on Friday, August 23, 2013 - 3:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Sheila make tea for visitors? Was she making tea for the fifth man?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, August 30, 2013 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hardcore:
Is the fifth man a smoker? No.
Does Sheila make tea for visitors? Was she making tea for the fifth man? Possibly, irr.
Psymann (Psymann)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

this might take a while for my brain to catch up so apologies if any stupid questions!

Apart from her impending marriage to Richard, Joan is unrelated to all the other four people?

In the first 'cliff event', David turns up, sees an open window, and walks away?
Does he know at the time who is in the house?

In the second 'cliff event', David turns up, sees an open window, and walks into the house?
Does he know at the time who is in the house?

By the time they get married, Richard and Joan know that David is Richard's father?

Richard knowing that David is his father makes the marriage easier?

David knowing that Richard is his son makes the marriage easier?

During Sheila and David's conversation in the house, David learns that Sheila still loves him?

During Sheila and David's conversation in the house, Shiela learns that David still loves her?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psymann:
this might take a while for my brain to catch up so apologies if any stupid questions! I believe there are no stupid questions.

Apart from her impending marriage to Richard, Joan is unrelated to all the other four people? Yes.

In the first 'cliff event', David turns up, sees an open window NO., and walks away? Finally, yes.
Does he know at the time who is in the house? NO, but...

In the second 'cliff event', David turns up, sees an open window, and walks into the house? Yes.
Does he know at the time who is in the house? No, but...

By the time they get married, Richard and Joan know that David is Richard's father? Yes.

Richard knowing that David is his father makes the marriage easier? Yes.

David knowing that Richard is his son makes the marriage easier? No.

During Sheila and David's conversation in the house, David learns that Sheila still loves him? Yes.

During Sheila and David's conversation in the house, Shiela learns that David still loves her? Yes.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

During the first event, is the window initially closed?
If so, does the act of opening the window attract (or distract?) David?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, I see from reading back that at the start of the first event, the window was closed, and that Sheila opened the window - did Sheila see David through the window at the start?
Did she open the window specifically to see David, or to see who it was? Or to speak to him?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the first 'cliff event', would David have walked into the house if he had seen the window open?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 11:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
During the first event, is the window initially closed? Yes.
If so, does the act of opening the window attract (or distract?) David? No. Just the fact that the window was open attracted David (and not only David).

Ok, I see from reading back that at the start of the first event, the window was closed, and that Sheila opened the window - did Sheila see David through the window at the start? No.
Did she open the window specifically to see David, or to see who it was? No to both. Or to speak to him? No. Sheila opened the window for any reason, not relevant to the puzzle. The mere act of opening is not relevant at all.

Psydkik:
In the first 'cliff event', would David have walked into the house if he had seen the window open? Very probably yes.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Have we determined the means by which Sheila wishes to kill herself? By inhalation of gas, or fire?
Is the fifth man's profession relevant? Is he some kind of rescue service worker?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Plebeian:
Have we determined the means by which Sheila wishes to kill herself? No, but it's not relevant to the puzzle. The reason why she wanted to kill herself is much more worth explanation. By inhalation of gas, or fire?
Is the fifth man's profession relevant? No. Is he some kind of rescue service worker? I'm not sure if he had any profession at all. Probably he was just a wealthy man, enjoying life.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, October 14, 2013 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh - is the reason for Sheila's prospective suicide more than just that she doubts David's love? Or that she's afraid of Richard discovering that David is his father?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Oh - is the reason for Sheila's prospective suicide more than just that she doubts David's love? Yes. Or that she's afraid of Richard discovering that David is his father? If she could tell Richard that David is his father, she would be very happy and have no reason for suicide.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Erm, you said earlier (point 13 of your recap) that Sheila doesn't want Richard to know who his father is, but your last post says if she could tell him she would be happy - is this correct..?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Erm, you said earlier (point 13 of your recap) that Sheila doesn't want Richard to know who his father is, but your last post says if she could tell him she would be happy - is this correct..? I think you looked up Biograd's addition to my recap. See also my answers to that.
Let's say that Sheila, at least until some point, did not want Richard to know NOTHING about his father. But she would be very happy to introduce David to Richard as his father.
Exploration of this point will probably bring this puzzle to an end.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"did not want richard to know nothing about his father"--do you mean she did not want him to know ANYthing about his father? or that she wanted him to know SOMEthing about his father, but not EVERYthing?

If it's the first, has Richard been led to believe that he was conceived by artificial means? because Sheila fears that David would not want to meet Richard?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd:
"did not want richard to know nothing about his father"--do you mean she did not want him to know ANYthing about his father? This is closest. or that she wanted him to know SOMEthing about his father, but not EVERYthing?

If it's the first, has Richard been led to believe that he was conceived by artificial means? No. He was led to believe his father was dead. because Sheila fears that David would not want to meet Richard? No, this is not the case.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sheila believe before this incident that David was gone away forever?
Or dead?
Or did she think that David didn't want to know his son? Or admit to having a son?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 9:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Did Sheila believe before this incident that David was gone away forever? Yes.
Or dead? Possibly.
Or did she think that David didn't want to know his son? Or admit to having a son? No to these.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant to discover the circumstances of his departure?
Went to war?
Ran away from family?
Split up/divorced and lost contact?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Relevant to discover the circumstances of his departure? Yes.
Went to war?
Ran away from family?
Split up/divorced and lost contact? This (split up), but you may need to know one more detail.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sheila pregnant when David left? Or recently gave birth?
Did David leave of his own accord (e.g. they fell out & he walked out)?
Through some argument about the child?
Or other external factors caused him leave against his will?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Plebeian:
Was Sheila pregnant when David left? Yes, but... Or recently gave birth? No.
Did David leave of his own accord (e.g. they fell out & he walked out)? Yes.
Through some argument about the child? No, because...
Or other external factors caused him leave against his will? No.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That would imply David didn't know Sheila was pregnant when he left - correct?
So they argued (or simply separated) without David's knowledge he was a father?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
That would imply David didn't know Sheila was pregnant when he left - correct? YES.
So they argued (or simply separated) without David's knowledge he was a father? YES, simply separated, there was no argument.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 944
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so...
Sheila & David separate, unbeknownst to him she is pregnant with his child at the time.
He is away for years, eventually becoming depressed enough to want to commit suicide.
As her son now wishes to marry, Sheila is also depressed and contemplating suicide.
A window is opened...
Ok so far?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 161
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Ok, so...
Sheila & David separate, unbeknownst to him she is pregnant with his child at the time.
He is away for years, eventually becoming depressed enough to want to commit suicide.
As her son now wishes to marry, Sheila is also depressed and contemplating suicide. She is not depressed, she has a practical reason for suicide.
A window is opened...
Ok so far? Besides the remark I made above, yes.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 946
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a *practical* reason for suicide? Wow.
Financial? To benefit her son?
Or was there some other barrier to the marriage that her being dead would remove?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 163
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
a *practical* reason for suicide? Wow.
Financial? No. To benefit her son? She thought, that finally it would benefit her son.
Or was there some other barrier to the marriage that her being dead would remove? OTRT. Her death would not remove the barrier, but...
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...
Was some documentation necessary for the marriage relevant? Like needing to know the parents? Or would Sheila have to divulge the father's name if she were around before the marriage could proceed?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 164
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Hmmm...
Was some documentation necessary for the marriage relevant? Like needing to know the parents? This is relevant. Or would Sheila have to divulge the father's name if she were around before the marriage could proceed? No to the rest. Think rather of a psychological than legal obstacle.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Post Number: 948
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, prior to the wedding Richard hadn't been told who his father was, but thought his father was dead?

Was he, at that time, on good terms with his mother?

Was his mother's failure to disclose the father's identity a cause of disagreement between them?

Would he actually have known who it was if Sheila had said "David was your father"?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
So, prior to the wedding Richard hadn't been told who his father was, but thought his father was dead? Correct.

Was he, at that time, on good terms with his mother? Yes.

Was his mother's failure to disclose the father's identity a cause of disagreement between them? No, but it could have been so in future.

Would he actually have known who it was if Sheila had said "David was your father"? No.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sheila's prospective suicide to avoid a potential confrontation with Richard at a later point, sometime after the marriage? (when children were coming along perhaps?)
When Man 5 came to the house, did Sheila reveal any details of her situation?
Like the impending marriage?
Richard's lack of knowledge of the father?
Who the father was?
That she was contemplating suicide?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Was Sheila's prospective suicide to avoid a potential confrontation with Richard at a later point, sometime after the marriage? (when children were coming along perhaps?) No. No children involved.
When Man 5 came to the house, did Sheila reveal any details of her situation? Yes, she told everything about her situation to Man 5.
Like the impending marriage?
Richard's lack of knowledge of the father?
Who the father was? No, not this one.
That she was contemplating suicide? The rest is yes.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

UPDATED RECAP:

Background:
David and Sheila were together many years ago. David left, not knowing Sheila was pregnant with his baby. Then Richard was born and Sheila made him to believe his father was dead. In the time the events of the puzzle happened, Richard was planning to marry Joan. Lack of knowledge about his father was a psychological obstacle for him to conduct the marriage. The situation prompted Sheila to plan her suicide, as she thought her son would benefit from it.

Events of the puzzle:
David heads to the cliff to commit suicide, but he doesn't want to do so with Man 5 around, so he leaves. Sheila opens the window in her house at the cliff, what causes Man 5 to come in. Sheila tells Man 5 her story and says she' s planning suicide.
Clarification: When the window was open for the first time, David did not see it.
David goes to the cliff few days later and he sees Sheila's window open. Sheila opened it that day because Man 5 told her to do so. Open window attracts David to go in, David and Sheila talk, they get known they still love each other. David also gets to know he is Richard's father.
These events result in both Sheila and David giving up the ideas of suicide and also in making marriage of Richard and Joan easier.

Left to find out:
What was Sheila's reason for suicide?
The activity of Man 5.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the psychological reason a thing that Richard was feeling?
Or that his prospective wife was feeling? (or both?)
Or that the church had some view on suicide? Or unknown parentage?
But there is an assumption (by Sheila) that her suicide would ease this barrier, true?
Would this actually have prevented the wedding taking place? Or merely affected the "mood" of the wedding?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Was the psychological reason a thing that Richard was feeling? Yes.
Or that his prospective wife was feeling? (or both?) No.
Or that the church had some view on suicide? They have, but it's not relevant to the puzzle. Or unknown parentage? Ditto.
But there is an assumption (by Sheila) that her suicide would ease this barrier, true? Not ease, but let's say temporarily remove.
Would this actually have prevented the wedding taking place? It's possible that Richard would not have decided to conduct the wedding. Or merely affected the "mood" of the wedding? No.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the son benefit financially from Sheila's suicide?
Or is it just that Richard may not want to get married without the knowledge of who his father is?
And Sheila's suicide would then mean he couldn't ever know his father's identity (as Sheila would be the only person with this information)?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Would the son benefit financially from Sheila's suicide? He probably would, as an only heir. But it's not relevant to the puzzle.
Or is it just that Richard may not want to get married without the knowledge of who his father is? Yes.
And Sheila's suicide would then mean he couldn't ever know his father's identity (as Sheila would be the only person with this information)? YES!
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, does that fill in the gaps with the first incident, up till the point where Man 5 enters the picture?
Was man 5 not specifically heading for Sheila's house, up till the point where he saw the open window? Is the open window the thing that caused him to go into the house? Or does the open window cause him to knock on the door?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Ok, does that fill in the gaps with the first incident, up till the point where Man 5 enters the picture? Yes.
Was man 5 not specifically heading for Sheila's house, up till the point where he saw the open window? Correct. Is the open window the thing that caused him to go into the house? Yes. Or does the open window cause him to knock on the door? The open window indicates that the house is inhabited and raises Man's 5 curiosity about who lives there. How exactly Man 5 enters the house is not relevant. Probably he went through the front door.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so :-
We know the tale up to the point where Man 5 comes into the house, attracted by the open window. At the house he meets Sheila, who tells him her tale of woe. He dissuades her from suicide.
David, who is also distressed, sees Man 5 either approaching or leaving the house, and this dissuades him from jumping.
Is it correct that Man 5 returns to the house a few days later? Does he come to check up on Sheila? Or because he's seen David?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Ok, so :-
We know the tale up to the point where Man 5 comes into the house, attracted by the open window. At the house he meets Sheila, who tells him her tale of woe. All correct. He dissuades her from suicide. No, he did not even try.
David, who is also distressed, sees Man 5 either approaching or leaving the house, and this dissuades him from jumping. Yes.
Is it correct that Man 5 returns to the house a few days later? Yes. Does he come to check up on Sheila? No. Or because he's seen David? Yes, and not only seen.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, so upon hearing Sheila's tale, does Man 5 leave to seek out David?
Or to speak to others involved?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 11:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Ah, so upon hearing Sheila's tale, does Man 5 leave to seek out David? No. Remember that Sheila told him only her story. She did not mention David by name.
Or to speak to others involved? No.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But Man 5 saw and (by your post) spoke to David after meeting Sheila, correct?
Was this a coincidence? Did Man 5 see? or meet? David as he left the house following his conversation with Sheila?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
But Man 5 saw and (by your post) spoke to David after meeting Sheila, correct? Yes.
Was this a coincidence? No. Did Man 5 see? or meet? David as he left the house following his conversation with Sheila? If "he" refers to David, then no. If "he" refers to Man 5, then please rephrase your question.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 2:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When Man 5 left the house after he met Sheila & she told him her tale, did Man 5 see David walking away from the cliff?
Or at some time later?
Did David see Man 5 (enter and/or) leave the house at the first meeting?
Did David somehow arrange to meet Man 5, rather than the other way round?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
When Man 5 left the house after he met Sheila & she told him her tale, did Man 5 see David walking away from the cliff?
Or at some time later? This.
Did David see Man 5 (enter and/or) leave the house at the first meeting? No.
Did David somehow arrange to meet Man 5, rather than the other way round? YES! Why?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was David simply curious? Or surprised? (or maybe angry?) that someone was leaving Sheila's house?
Did David actually know the house was Sheila's whnen he was at the cliff edge contemplating suicide?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Was David simply curious? Or surprised? (or maybe angry?) that someone was leaving Sheila's house? No. David did not see Man 5 neither entering nor leaving Sheila's house.

Did David actually know the house was Sheila's whnen he was at the cliff edge contemplating suicide? Yes, at least he knew that Sheila lived there at the time of their romance.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So David didn't see Man 5 at the time of his aborted suicide, yet contacted him and arranged to meet him at a later time?! Did Man 5 make some public communication which enabled David to contact him?
(From a note on a tree to a radio/tv broadcast?)
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
So David didn't see Man 5 at the time of his aborted suicide, yet contacted him and arranged to meet him at a later time?! No - David saw Man 5 on a cliff when he wanted to commit suicide. But Man 5 was neither entering, nor exiting Sheila's property at the time David saw him.
Did Man 5 make some public communication which enabled David to contact him?
(From a note on a tree to a radio/tv broadcast?) No to these.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did David think that Man5 was having or had had a relationship with Shiela? Did he think Man5 was Richard's father?

Was Man5 profession relevant? - is he a priest? (can't remember if we've already asked that!)
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
Did David think that Man5 was having or had had a relationship with Shiela? No. Did he think Man5 was Richard's father? No.

Was Man5 profession relevant? - is he a priest? (can't remember if we've already asked that!) No and irrelevant. I doubt if Man 5 has any profession at all, probably he was just a wealthy man with no need of profession.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was David aware that Man5 had been into Shiela's house before David spoke to Man5? Was David aware after he'd spoken to Man5?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
Was David aware that Man5 had been into Shiela's house before David spoke to Man5? No, neither before, nor after. Good q. Was David aware after he'd spoken to Man5? No.
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap please Redwine? And if Man5 does not have a name, might I suggest Psyduck? Just because it makes me laugh? =D
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If Man5 had not been to Shiela's house, and had never seen or spoken to Sheila, would David still have contacted him? (albeit I imagine the outcome of that contact would have been different.)

I reckon he should be called Nigel, after Nigel Man5sell ;-) But psyduck does have a certain ring to it. Or a certain quack.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 8:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
If Man5 had not been to Shiela's house, and had never seen or spoken to Sheila, would David still have contacted him? Yes. (albeit I imagine the outcome of that contact would have been different.) You imagine correct.
I will produce recap later today.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did David contact Man5 because of Man5's profession? Because he just happened to be in the right place at the right time? Because of some knowledge or skills Man5 was known to have?

Forgotten if we've asked this, but did David know Man5 before contacting him?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
Did David contact Man5 because of Man5's profession? No. Because he just happened to be in the right place at the right time? Yes. Because of some knowledge or skills Man5 was known to have? No.

Forgotten if we've asked this, but did David know Man5 before contacting him? No, Man 5 was complete stranger to rest of the people involved.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP-UPDATED AGAIN:

Background (Complete, nothing more is needed here):
David and Sheila were together many years ago. David left, not knowing Sheila was pregnant with his baby. Then Richard was born and Sheila made him to believe his father was dead. In the time the events of the puzzle happened, Richard was planning to marry Joan. Lack of knowledge about his father was a psychological obstacle for him to conduct the marriage. Sheila planned her suicide because she thought it would stop Richard's enquiry about his father and he would marry Joan and be happy.

Events of the puzzle:
David heads to the cliff to commit suicide, but he doesn't want to do so with Man 5 around [Here's something missing], so he leaves.
Sheila opens the window in her house at the cliff, what causes Man 5 to come in. Sheila tells Man 5 her story (but does not mention David by name) and says she' s planning suicide. David does not see Man 5 entering nor exiting Sheila's house. David did not see window opened for the first time.
[Here's something missing]
David goes to the cliff few days later and he sees Sheila's window open. Sheila opened it that day because Man 5 told her to do so. Open window attracts David to go in, David and Sheila talk, they get known they still love each other. David also gets to know he is Richard's father.
These events result in both Sheila and David giving up the ideas of suicide and also in making marriage of Richard and Joan easier.
Parts concerning Sheila, Richard and Joan are complete.

Left to find out (PLUS HINTS):
The activity of Man 5.
Man 5 (named Nigel Psyduck) is a wealthy man with no profession. He had two relevant encounters with David. First encounter happens because Nigel Psyduck happened to be in the right place at the right time. Second encounter is a result of the first and was initiated by David. These encounters both would have happened even if Nigel Psyduck had never met Sheila.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2013 - 6:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the first encounter between David and Nigel Psyduck was obviously during David's first trip to the cliff (and first suicide attempt). BUT, was the SECOND encounter between them also during David's first trip to the cliff? Between his first and second visits to the cliff? During his second visit?

Does the first "something missing" involve David saying something to Nigel Psyduck? the reverse? does one of them give an object to the other?

Does David arrange a second meeting with Nigel Psyduck to ask a question? to tell him something? to get back an object? to return an object he has borrowed FROM Nigel?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2013 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd:
So the first encounter between David and Nigel Psyduck was obviously during David's first trip to the cliff (and first suicide attempt). Yes. BUT, was the SECOND encounter between them also during David's first trip to the cliff? No. Between his first and second visits to the cliff? David's visits? Yes. During his second visit? No.

Does the first "something missing" involve David saying something to Nigel Psyduck? the reverse? They talked with each other, but it's only what David said that is important. does one of them give an object to the other? No.

Does David arrange a second meeting with Nigel Psyduck to ask a question? No. to tell him something? Yes, explore. to get back an object? No. to return an object he has borrowed FROM Nigel? No.
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Posted on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 1:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am still laughing at the idea of a man named Nigel Psyduck. I am pondering questions to ask, even though I don't have anything concrete yet.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Nigel try to actively dissuade David from suicide?
Did Nigel actually know (or suspect) that David was suicidal?
Nigel's initial contact with David - this was before he entered the house, correct?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Did Nigel try to actively dissuade David from suicide? No, he could have said a remark, but nothing besides. But later Nigel performed action that indirectly led to David not committing suicide.
Did Nigel actually know (or suspect) that David was suicidal? Yes, he knew.
Nigel's initial contact with David - this was before he entered the house, correct? Before Nigel entered the house - yes. But could have happened after almost as well.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the "action" to tell Sheila to open her window? We already know that this action, indirectly, caused David to not commit suicide, because he was able to resolve his desperation by talking to Sheila. Or was there a second action taken by Nigel that also was important?

During the first conversation with Nigel, did David ask a relevant question? make a comment about Sheila? make a comment about Richard?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, October 28, 2013 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd:
Was the "action" to tell Sheila to open her window? Yes indeed. We already know that this action, indirectly, caused David to not commit suicide, because he was able to resolve his desperation by talking to Sheila. All correct. Or was there a second action taken by Nigel that also was important? No.

During the first conversation with Nigel, did David ask a relevant question? No. make a comment about Sheila? No. make a comment about Richard? No.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, at the first meeting, Nigel saw David and they spoke, Nigel knew David was suicidal but didn't actually do anything to dissuade him - is this correct?
Did Nigel have, or develop during the story, any romantic feelings towards Sheila?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
So, at the first meeting, Nigel saw David and they spoke, Nigel knew David was suicidal but didn't actually do anything to dissuade him - is this correct? Yes. We also know that Nigel's presence was enough to stop David on that occassion.
Did Nigel have, or develop during the story, any romantic feelings towards Sheila? No.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Nigel's remark (if there was one) didn't lead to David's aborted suicide, his mere presence did. Did the remark (if there was one) lead to David contacting Nigel afterwards?
Was there something particular about Nigel's
position that led David to contact Nigel specifically?
Did he contact him to try to track down Sheila?
Was Nigel some famous person?
Did he own the land on which David was standing?
Did he own the land on which Sheila's house stood?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2013 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Did Nigel's remark (if there was one) didn't lead to David's aborted suicide, his mere presence did. Correct. Remember though that David aborted his suicide plans only for that moment - he just did not want to jump off a cliff in Nigel's presence. Did the remark (if there was one) lead to David contacting Nigel afterwards? No.
Was there something particular about Nigel's
position that led David to contact Nigel specifically? No. Only David's first meeting with Nigel on the cliff formed a reason to that contact.
Did he contact him to try to track down Sheila? No.
Was Nigel some famous person? No.
Did he own the land on which David was standing? No.
Did he own the land on which Sheila's house stood? No.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, David was temporarily put off jumping because he saw Nigel, but some short time later (same day? Days later? Weeks?) he is still feeling suicidal.
Does he contact Nigel for advice?
Does he contact Nigel to find out if he'll be coming back (and therefore guarantee an uninterrupted suicide)?
Does he contact Nigel in a generally friendly way? Or a generally unfriendly way? (e.g. to warn him off returning to the spot)?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
So, David was temporarily put off jumping because he saw Nigel, but some short time later (same day? Days later? Weeks?) he is still feeling suicidal. Yes.
Does he contact Nigel for advice? No.
Does he contact Nigel to find out if he'll be coming back (and therefore guarantee an uninterrupted suicide)? YES! David asked Nigel not to go to the cliff that day (the day of the second interaction).
Does he contact Nigel in a generally friendly way? Or a generally unfriendly way? (e.g. to warn him off returning to the spot)? Indifferent, I would say.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now that I'm actually paying attention I recognize this story, but I can't seem to place it.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2013 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin: I will write the source in the spolier.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, November 01, 2013 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When David asked Nigel not to return to the cliff, did Nigel know? (Or suspect?) The reason behind the request?
Did David make it clear why he didn't want Nigel there?
Did any of this information lead Nigel to conclude that David was connected to Sheila?
Did Nigel return and ask Sheila to open her window a second time to prevent David's suicide in a similar way to his presence the first time?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, November 01, 2013 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
When David asked Nigel not to return to the cliff, did Nigel know? (Or suspect?) The reason behind the request? Yes, he knew. David made it quite clear.
Did David make it clear why he didn't want Nigel there? Yes.
Did any of this information lead Nigel to conclude that David was connected to Sheila? No, not this information.
Did Nigel return and ask Sheila to open her window a second time to prevent David's suicide Yes. in a similar way to his presence the first time? But not this.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, when David asked Nigel not to return, Did Nigel before the conversation know that David and Sheila were connected?
Or did he find out after that point, but before the second suicide attempt?
Or did he find out at the time of the second aborted suicide attempt?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
So, when David asked Nigel not to return, Did Nigel before the conversation know that David and Sheila were connected? At least he had a strong suspicion about that.
Or did he find out after that point, but before the second suicide attempt? No.
Or did he find out at the time of the second aborted suicide attempt? No.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 3:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Nigel's suspicion come about because of hearing Sheila's story, combined with David discussing his planned suicide?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 04, 2013 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Did Nigel's suspicion come about because of hearing Sheila's story, combined with David discussing his planned suicide? Yes.
Would you try to put the story together?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, but I think there maybe a small bit missing - stop me if/when I go wrong...
The story before the day of the First suicide attempt is known (relationship, break up, father and son unaware of each other).
On that day with the impending wedding of Richard, Sheila is contemplating suicide, opens her window for some reason, and Nigel enters.
At the same time, David is on the cliff side also contemplating suicide.
Nigel hears Sheila's tale, and (either just before or just after), David spots Nigel and aborts his planned suicide as a result.
David then at some short time later contacts Nigel to ask him to stay away at a certain time, so that he may complete his planned suicide.
Nigel puts 2+2 together on hearing David's tale, and suspects that David is the man Sheila was talking about.
So he asks Sheila to open her window again on the day of the second planned suicide, this attracts David to the house where he meets Sheila, they discuss matters, David has aborted his suicide twice, Sheila once and All Ends Happily Ever After.
I'm not certain (a) whether Nigel has motives other than simply trying to do good, (b) whether Nigel was present at the second meeting, and (c) why the open window the first time didn't attract David to the house in the same way. But these details may be trivial)
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:
Ok, but I think there maybe a small bit missing - stop me if/when I go wrong...
The story before the day of the First suicide attempt is known (relationship, break up, father and son unaware of each other). Yes.
On that day with the impending wedding of Richard, Sheila is contemplating suicide, opens her window for some reason, and Nigel enters. Yes.
At the same time, David is on the cliff side also contemplating suicide. Yes.
Nigel hears Sheila's tale, and (either just before or just after), David spots Nigel and aborts his planned suicide as a result. Yes. Besides, David and Nigel have a short conversation, from which Nigel learns about David's suicidal plans.
David then at some short time later contacts Nigel to ask him to stay away at a certain time, so that he may complete his planned suicide. Yes.
Nigel puts 2+2 together on hearing David's tale, and suspects that David is the man Sheila was talking about. Yes, exactly.
So he asks Sheila to open her window again on the day of the second planned suicide, this attracts David to the house where he meets Sheila, they discuss matters, David has aborted his suicide twice, Sheila once and All Ends Happily Ever After. And yes.
I'm not certain (a) whether Nigel has motives other than simply trying to do good, No. (b) whether Nigel was present at the second meeting, No. and (c) why the open window the first time didn't attract David to the house in the same way. I wondered about it, too, when I read the story. Probably it had something to do with the timing of events. Now on the Wiki page I see they recall it But these details may be trivial)

Finally, after a long struggle of all players involved, especially Galfisk, Biograd and Plebeian, who put it together, this puzzle reaches its
********************SPOILER********************


After having spent more than 8 months in this puzzle, I think I overestimated the story's ability to appear as a puzzle. I liked the story's idea of an unrelated man making things moving.
And the source, on which I based this puzzle is Agatha Christie's "The man from the sea". It appeared in the book "The Mysterious Mr Quin". You may also see the plot's summary on Wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mysterious_Mr_Quin#The_Man_from_the_Sea
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 2:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's right - I was thinking Christie but couldn't place it as a Mr. Quin story.
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I would have never gotten that - haven't read enough Christie. Must rectify this.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 06, 2013 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Glad we got there - sometimes the small details take a lot of teasing out, even when the big picture is more or less known.

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