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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8911
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Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2013 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

American criminal law has a provision that people take for granted but that seems almost impossible to justify. What is it?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2013 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

no double jeopardy? innocent until proven guilty? Miranda rights? (I'm going with the 'take for granted' angle, since I'm not good enough at legal wrangling to look at the justification part yet)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2013 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, March 03, 2013 - 10:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
no double jeopardy? no innocent until proven guilty? noMiranda rights? no (I'm going with the 'take for granted' angle, since I'm not good enough at legal wrangling to look at the justification part yet) All those are easy to justify!!
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mental illness aka insanity defense? (seems like an oxymoron because for certain crimes like murder, one would have to be insane or mentally ill)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 1:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 12:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Mental illness aka insanity defense? no (seems like an oxymoron because for certain crimes like murder, one would have to be insane or mentally ill)? Why on earth would you have to be mentally ill to commit murder? Why couldn't you just be bad? If you murder your wife in order to get her life insurance money, why suppose this has anything at all to do with illness (as opposed to just wickedeness)?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 3429
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are lawyers relevant? Other employees in the justice system? Specific laws? Rights? Punitive measures? Parole?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8914
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are lawyers relevant? noOther employees in the justice system? no Specific laws? yesRights? yesishPunitive measures? yesish or yopeParole? no
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 480
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Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suictde?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 4:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, March 04, 2013 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are lawyers relevant? noOther employees in the justice system? no Specific laws? yesRights? yesishPunitive measures? yesish or yopeParole? no
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 480
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Posted on Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - 8:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Suictde? no
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 486
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Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it deal with felonies? Misdemeanors? murder? burglary? the judicial system? the penal system?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 543
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Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this provision favor the defendant? favor the prosecution?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8917
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 10:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does it deal with felonies?most felonies Misdemeanors? yesmurder? no burglary? yes the judicial system? yes the penal system? see previous answer
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2013 - 6:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does this provision favor the defendant? yes favor the prosecution? no
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 504
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Innocent until proven guilty?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8918
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 504
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 6:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Innocent until proven guilty? No. What's odd about that?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 11:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the puzzle what does "seems almost impossible to justify" mean:

- Does a substantial majority of the relevant population think it's an unjustifiable provision?
- Seems almost impossible to justify in a strictly legal sense (e.g. un-constitutional)?
- Does the provision involve what evidence can presented at any point in the process?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8922
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Friday, March 08, 2013 - 11:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
In the puzzle what does "seems almost impossible to justify" mean:

- Does a substantial majority of the relevant population think it's an unjustifiable provision? I bet they do, although I admit that my main evidence for this is that I can't think of a good justification.
- Seems almost impossible to justify in a strictly legal sense (e.g. un-constitutional)? no
- Does the provision involve what evidence can presented at any point in the process? yope
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 539
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Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 5:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it involve search and seizure? Miranda rights?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8940
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Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 5:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does it involve search and seizure? noMiranda rights? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the provision apply before the suspect is arrested? Between arrest and trial? During the trial? During sentencing? After sentencing? When the sentence is carried out? After the sentence has been fulfilled?

Does it only apply for crimes which carry a certain type of punishment? Jail relevant? House arrest? Community service? Fines? Death penalty?

Is it impossibly to justify because it is unfair? Because there is no need for it? Because if it didn't exist, the justice system would be no worse off?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8941
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Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 - 8:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the provision apply before the suspect is arrested? yes Between arrest and trial? noDuring the trial? noDuring sentencing? noAfter sentencing? no When the sentence is carried out? noAfter the sentence has been fulfilled? no

Does it only apply for crimes which carry a certain type of punishment?see next answer} Jail relevant? House arrest? Community service? Fines? Death penalty?It could apply to all, except, possibly, death penalty crimes

Is it impossibly to justify because it is unfair? I think so Because there is no need for it? no Because if it didn't exist, the justice system would be no worse off? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2481
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Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2013 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the provision to do with how police determine who committed a crime? Whether or not someone is guilty? To do with catching the criminal? With what is done with them before they are officially arrested?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8944
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Post Number: 2481
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Posted on Thursday, March 14, 2013 - 11:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the provision to do with how police determine who committed a crime? no Whether or not someone is guilty? yopeTo do with catching the criminal?yesish or yes With what is done with them before they are officially arrested? noish
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2490
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the provision give certain rights to the police? To the suspect? Does it force the police to do something? Force the suspect to do something? Is it intended to protect the suspect? Protect the police? Make the justice system more fair? Would it apply in a situation where the police caught a criminal? If a criminal turned themselves in? If a non police officer caught a criminal and turned them in?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8945
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 4:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 4:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the provision give certain rights to the police? no To the suspect? yes Does it force the police to do something? yesForce the suspect to do something? noIs it intended to protect the suspect? yes Protect the police? noMake the justice system more fair? yes Would it apply in a situation where the police caught a criminal? yesIf a criminal turned themselves in?yes If a non police officer caught a criminal and turned them in? yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2491
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is entrapment relevant? Policemen working undercover? Is it to do with arrest procedure? With ways of gathering information? If the police don't do the thing they are required to do, could the case be thrown out? Could the policeman or woman involved face legal action?

Is it (in your opinion) unfair because it privileges certain suspects above others? Because it is unfair on the police? Because it gives the suspects rights they don't deserve?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 5:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is entrapment relevant? no Policemen working undercover? noIs it to do with arrest procedure?no no With ways of gathering information? If the police don't do the thing they are required to do, could the case be thrown out?n/a Could the policeman or woman involved face legal action? unlikely

Is it (in your opinion) unfair because it privileges certain suspects above others? yopeBecause it is unfair on the police? noBecause it gives the suspects rights they don't deserve? yes & I'm generally very big on suspects' rights!!
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the provision to do with how the police actually get hold of the criminal? Such as the right to enter a home looking for them?

Do the police have to say something to the suspect? Have to do a certain thing before the person can be arrested? Could the provision result in guilty people getting away with it, by giving the suspect too many rights?

Would this apply to all suspects of a suitable crime? Is race relevant? Gender?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Post Number: 2492
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Posted on Friday, March 15, 2013 - 8:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the provision to do with how the police actually get hold of the criminal? no Such as the right to enter a home looking for them? no

Do the police have to say something to the suspect? irrelHave to do a certain thing before the person can be arrested? yope Could the provision result in guilty people getting away with it, by giving the suspect too many rights? yes

Would this apply to all suspects of a suitable crime? no Is race relevant? no Gender? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is anonymity relevant? Searching?
Is the provision supposed to stop innocent people getting arrested? To ensure suspects are treated humanely by the police?

Does the provision give the suspect the right to ask for something? To demand certain conditions before they are arrested? Would the suspect have to know their rights for this provision to apply, or would it apply anyway without their asking for it?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is anonymity relevant? noSearching? yope
Is the provision supposed to stop innocent people getting arrested? no To ensure suspects are treated humanely by the police? noish

Does the provision give the suspect the right to ask for something? see next answer To demand certain conditions before they are arrested? yes Would the suspect have to know their rights for this provision to apply no--I can't think of any provision that meets that condition, or would it apply anyway without their asking for it? yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is stopping people relevant? Examining people? Looking through their possessions? Sniffer dogs relevant? Drug tests? Other kinds of tests? Is profiling relevant, eg stopping/searching people based on certain characteristics about them?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 9:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is stopping people relevant? Examining people? Looking through their possessions? Sniffer dogs relevant? Drug tests? Other kinds of tests? Is profiling relevant, eg stopping/searching people based on certain characteristics about them?all are irrel, or at least no moire relevant than any other aspect of criminal investigation
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the provision come into play if the subject needs medical attention? If the subject is younger than a certain age?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 4:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the provision come into play if the subject needs medical attention? no--thst's irrel If the subject is younger than a certain age? ditto
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: This is a fairly non-partisan puzzle; I think liberals and conservatives would both think the provision is rather odd.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are lawyers relevant? Allowing the suspect contact with other people? Is there a danger that this provision will allow a guilty person the chance to 'get their story straight' before being questioned?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 5:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are lawyers relevant? no Allowing the suspect contact with other people? noIs there a danger that this provision will allow a guilty person the chance to 'get their story straight' before being questioned? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Search warrants relevant? How a search is conducted? How evidence is collected? What evidence is admissible in court? Evidence of other crimes found while searching evidence for one crime relevant? Illegal searches relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 10:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Search warrants relevant? no more than any other aspect of police procedure How a search is conducted?dittoHow evidence is collected? dittoWhat evidence is admissible in court?yope Evidence of other crimes found while searching evidence for one crime relevant? noIllegal searches relevant? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2563
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Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here is my (almost certainly inaccurate) idea of the rough sequence of events involved in investigating a crime/making an arrest. Could you indicate at which if any of these points the provision comes into play?

A crime is committed and the police called to the scene.
The police gather evidence which leads them to a suspect or suspects.
The police may then attempt to gather more evidence against that person to make an arrest allowable.
Or they may question the person first, or ask them for assistance, without formally arresting them.
When the person is arrested, they are told their rights, get a lawyer, and work on their defence.
They may be released on bail.

In situations where the provision results in someone getting away with it, would this be because they are never arrested? If so, because they have enough notice to escape? Because the police can not build up enough of a case to warrant arresting them? If not, would they get away with it because they win their court case? Because there is not enough evidence against them? Because they physically escape? Would they get off on a technicality?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 6:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Here is my (almost certainly inaccurate) idea of the rough sequence of events involved in investigating a crime/making an arrest. Could you indicate at which if any of these points the provision comes into play?

A crime is committed and the police called to the scene.
The police gather evidence which leads them to a suspect or suspects. It may break down here.
The police may then attempt to gather more evidence against that person to make an arrest allowable. ditto
Or they may question the person first, or ask them for assistance, without formally arresting them.
When the person is arrested, THe suspect might not get arrewstedthey are told their rights, get a lawyer, and work on their defence.
They may be released on bail.

In situations where the provision results in someone getting away with it, would this be because they are never arrested? yesIf so, because they have enough notice to escape? no Because the police can not build up enough of a case to warrant arresting them? noIf not, would they get away with it because they win their court case? noBecause there is not enough evidence against them? noBecause they physically escape? noWould they get off on a technicality? yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the provision to do with which police officers can be involved in a case? With who can do the arrest? Something like there must be two officers present when someone is arrested, or arresting officers must be of the same gender as the suspect?

Relevant what kind of evidence is admissible?
Would the person escape arrest because there is something about the situation that means the police are not allowed to arrest them? Because certain conditions would have to be met before the arrest could be made, and these would be impossible to meet?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 6:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the provision to do with which police officers can be involved in a case? With who can do the arrest? Something like there must be two officers present when someone is arrested, or arresting officers must be of the same gender as the suspect?

Relevant what kind of evidence is admissible? yes
Would the person escape arrest because there is something about the situation that means the police are not allowed to arrest them? yes Because certain conditions would have to be met before the arrest could be made, and these would be impossible to meet? yes. So now find out what these conditions are!!
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You missed these questions:
Is the provision to do with which police officers can be involved in a case? With who can do the arrest? Something like there must be two officers present when someone is arrested, or arresting officers must be of the same gender as the suspect?

Do the conditions involve informing the suspect of something? Showing them something? The location where the arrest takes place? What would be done with the suspect after arrest?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 3:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Diplomatic immunity?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 26, 2013 - 9:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
You missed these questions:
Is the provision to do with which police officers can be involved in a case? no With who can do the arrest? noSomething like there must be two officers present when someone is arrested, or arresting officers must be of the same gender as the suspect? no

Do the conditions involve informing the suspect of something? noShowing them something? noThe location where the arrest takes place? no What would be done with the suspect after arrest? no
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 27, 2013 - 3:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Diplomatic immunity? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 12:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant whether police must tell the truth? Whether they are allowed to use force?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, March 28, 2013 - 12:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it relevant whether police must tell the truth? irrel Whether they are allowed to use force? ditto
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Friday, March 29, 2013 - 2:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Really on a reach here, with no good breeze...

Interstate travel relevant?

The fact that a police officer might often decide not to detain, fine, or arrest a fellow officer, unless a very serious crime was suspected?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Could this provision apply to any suspect? Does it depend on the suspect's gender? Profession? Social status? Something else about the suspect?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Friday, March 29, 2013 - 2:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Really on a reach here, with no good breeze...

Interstate travel relevant? no

The fact that a police officer might often decide not to detain, fine, or arrest a fellow officer, unless a very serious crime was suspected? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Could this provision apply to any suspect? noish Does it depend on the suspect's gender? noProfession? no Social status? noSomething else about the suspect? yope
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the provision only apply when the arrest would take place in a certain situation? Is this provision present in other countries? Is there something special about the suspects who might avoid arrest because of this provision?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 6:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the provision only apply when the arrest would take place in a certain situation? yes Is this provision present in other countries? I don't know Is there something special about the suspects who might avoid arrest because of this provision? yope
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, March 30, 2013 - 7:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are states relevant? State law vs federal law? Relevant where the suspect allegedly committed the crime? Where they live? Could the provision theoretically apply to any suspect, so long as they were in the right situation?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2013 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Are states relevant? see next answerState law vs federal law? the oddity is found in both state & federal law Relevant where the suspect allegedly committed the crime? noWhere they live? no Could the provision theoretically apply to any suspect, so long as they were in the right situation? yes
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Monday, April 01, 2013 - 4:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For this provision to apply, does the suspect need to be:

in an automobile? Travelling by air? Crossing country lines? Running away on foot? Being on his or her own private property? On someone else's private property? Being on public property?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Posted on Monday, April 01, 2013 - 4:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
For this provision to apply, does the suspect need to be:

in an automobile? Travelling by air? Crossing country lines? Running away on foot? Being on his or her own private property? On someone else's private property? Being on public property?all are irrel
Senorita_illuminata (Senorita_illuminata)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

any relevance to the law that requires prosecutors to decide which specific (if any) crimes they are going to charge you with within 72 hrs of arrest, hence not giving them enough time to investigate fully?
Senorita_illuminata (Senorita_illuminata)
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anything to do with the identification process and the right of the suspect not to answer questions under Miranda Laws?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 03, 2013 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Senorita_illuminata (Senorita_illuminata)
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anything to do with the identification process and the right of the suspect not to answer questions under Miranda Laws? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2013 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the provision forbids arresting a suspect unless certain conditions are met, which is sometimes impossible. Correct? Would this be impossible due to time constraints? Because it requires the police to do something they are not physically capable of doing? Because it requires them to do something that they may not have done by the time they want to arrest the suspect? Because these conditions can only be met in a certain place? In a certain situation? When certain people are involved?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2013 - 8:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So the provision forbids arresting a suspect unless certain conditions are met, which is sometimes impossible. Correct? yes Would this be impossible due to time constraints? yesBecause it requires the police to do something they are not physically capable of doing? noBecause it requires them to do something that they may not have done by the time they want to arrest the suspect? yesBecause these conditions can only be met in a certain place? noIn a certain situation? see earlier answersWhen certain people are involved? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2013 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the conditions relate to how the evidence is gathered? How it is organised? How it is presented? Are they to do with how much time has passed since the crime? With how old the evidence is? Do they require a lot of time-consuming admin work or similar to be done?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, April 04, 2013 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Do the conditions relate to how the evidence is gathered? noHow it is organised? no How it is presented? Are they to do with how much time has passed since the crime? GOOOOOOOD QUESTION!! With how old the evidence is? see previous answer Do they require a lot of time-consuming admin work or similar to be done? irrel
Senorita_illuminata (Senorita_illuminata)
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 3:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the statute of limitations relevant?
Senorita_illuminata (Senorita_illuminata)
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 3:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

if so: you think the Statute of Limitations is impossible to justify because even though someone may be guilty of a crime, may even confess to it voluntarily or may be caught out in some other manner, he/she can be impossible to prosecute due to the amount of time lapsed between commission of said crime and the moment they are known to be guilty?
eg. i committed a robbery, but ten years has passed, i hand myself in to police, but am able to walk away a free person due to the statute of limitations having expired?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

For some reason I thought someone had asked about the statute of limitations at the beginning and been told no, which is why I had avoided questions on that path...I must have been thinking of a different puzzle
Senorita_illuminata (Senorita_illuminata)
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

nope..can't recall anyone mentioning anything about the statute previously, but your earlier questions led me to think along those lines!
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No, I read back and it hasn't come up! I just got confused :p
Nimue (Nimue)
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Senorita_illuminata (Senorita_illuminata)
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 3:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
is the statute of limitations relevant?
Senorita_illuminata (Senorita_illuminata)
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 3:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
if so: you think the Statute of Limitations is impossible to justify because even though someone may be guilty of a crime, may even confess to it voluntarily or may be caught out in some other manner, he/she can be impossible to prosecute due to the amount of time lapsed between commission of said crime and the moment they are known to be guilty? yes!!
eg. i committed a robbery, but ten years has passed, i hand myself in to police, but am able to walk away a free person due to the statute of limitations having expired? yes

*** SPOILER ****
Many crimes, although not murder, have statute of limitations. Although, as a (knee-jerk?) liberal, I generally favor the rights of the accused, this provision strikes me as illogical. Shouldn't the question of whether it's too late to get evidence be decided on a case-by-case basis for all crimes, not just murder? And shouldn't you check out my new puzzle at the bottom of the page?

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