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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8953
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Saturday, March 16, 2013 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A common cliche is rarely used in a certain situation where it might be very appropriate. How come?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2509
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the cliche usually used to describe a situation? A person? To give advice? To offer comfort? To comment on a situation?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8955
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2509
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the cliche usually used to describe a situation? yesish A person? no To give advice? yesTo offer comfort? sometimesTo comment on a situation?yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2512
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the situation where it might be very appropriate be a generally negative one? Positive?

Is the cliche used to give advice in a specific situation? Does it give advice to actually do a specific thing, or just more vague consolation?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8958
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2512
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 8:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the situation where it might be very appropriate be a generally negative one? yes Positive? no

Is the cliche used to give advice in a specific situation? yes Does it give advice to actually do a specific thing, or just more vague consolation? the former
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2513
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it usually used in negative situations? Does the advice or the situation concern money? Work? Relationships? Bereavement? Health? Religion? Behaviour? Manners?

Is the cliche usually not used in the appropriate situation because people don't realise it would be appropriate? Because it would be insensitive? Because it applies to this situation in a different way than to the situations where it is normally used?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8960
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2513
Registered: 4-2007

Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 9:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it usually used in negative situations? Does the advice or the situation concern money? Work? Relationships? Bereavement? Health? Religion? Behaviour? Manners? Just health, on this list

Is the cliche usually not used in the appropriate situation because people don't realise it would be appropriate? yesBecause it would be insensitive? no Because it applies to this situation in a different way than to the situations where it is normally used? yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2514
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the advice be given to someone with a certain health condition? Is the advice to do with how to stay healthy? With what to do if you have a certain condition? With 'making the best of' a situation? Is old age relevant? Obesity? Smoking? Cancer?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8961
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2514
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Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the advice be given to someone with a certain health condition? yes Is the advice to do with how to stay healthy? noWith what to do if you have a certain condition? yes With 'making the best of' a situation? yes Is old age relevant? yes, but the cliche gets used with young people tooObesity? yes Smoking? yes Cancer? yes, but the cliche gets used with people who don't have cancer
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 2515
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this cliche be said to someone who was perfectly fit and healthy? Is the condition generally being unhealthy in some way? Or more specific? Having an unhealthy habit?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8962
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2515
Registered: 4-2007

Posted on Sunday, March 17, 2013 - 10:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would this cliche be said to someone who was perfectly fit and healthy?possibly Is the condition generally being unhealthy in some way?see next answer Or more specific?the condition most likely to call forth the cliche? yes Having an unhealthy habit?the condition most likely to call forth the cliche? no
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 562
Registered: 2-2012
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it rarely used where appropriate because of the desire by the speaker to avoid embarrassing or insulting the person that it applies to?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8963
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 562
Registered: 2-2012

Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2013 - 4:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it rarely used where appropriate because of the desire by the speaker to avoid embarrassing or insulting the person that it applies to?
no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8968
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: The cliche is often used by people who are trying to keep health care costs down.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2542
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would these people be wanting to keep health care costs down by treating fewer people? By keeping people healthier so they don't need treatment? By skimping on the cost of treatment? By letting people die who otherwise could be kept alive with expensive treatment?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8972
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2542
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Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 5:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would these people be wanting to keep health care costs down by treating fewer people? see final two answersBy keeping people healthier so they don't need treatment? noBy skimping on the cost of treatment? yesBy letting people die who otherwise could be kept alive with expensive treatment? yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2545
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the cliche be used to encourage people to refuse life-saving treatment? Would it be said to their families? Is it something to do with going out on a high note rather than dying slowly? With having control over your life? With allowing younger/healthier people to have a chance? With relieving the burden on the family?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8973
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2545
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Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 6:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Would the cliche be used to encourage people to refuse life-saving treatment? yes Would it be said to their families? possibly Is it something to do with going out on a high note rather than dying slowly? yope With having control over your life?\b[ No. Isn't choosing life-prolonging treatment a way of having control over your life?} With allowing younger/healthier people to have a chance?No--don't they already have a chance? With relieving the burden on the family? No--who would be nuts enough to sacrifice his life for a family so selfish & unloving that they value his life less than their convenience?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2546
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 8:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A lot of your past puzzles have dealt with issues along the lines of people feeling pressured not to prolong their lives, which I'm sure can happen, and I'm trying to find the cliche, not expressing my personal views...

Is the cliche about quality of life? Saying that it is better to have a good quality of life for a short time than a poor one for longer, or something to that effect? Does the cliche emphasise the downsides of continued treatment (eg side effects, high cost, lack of certainty of success)? Does it focus on the unpleasantness of a prolonged death from ill health? Does it try to make dying seem positive in some way? Is religion/the afterlife involved in the cliche?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8974
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 9:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 8:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
A lot of your past puzzles have dealt with issues along the lines of people feeling pressured not to prolong their lives, which I'm sure can happen, and I'm trying to find the cliche, not expressing my personal views...

Is the cliche about quality of life? yesSaying that it is better to have a good quality of life for a short time than a poor one for longer, or something to that effect? Yes --the cliche is that the quality of life is more important than the quantity. Now all you need to do is find a situation where that cliche would be apt but is rarely if ever usedDoes the cliche emphasise the downsides of continued treatment (eg side effects, high cost, lack of certainty of success) see previous answer Does it focus on the unpleasantness of a prolonged death from ill health? see previous answer but oneDoes it try to make dying seem positive in some way? see previous answer but two Is religion/the afterlife involved in the cliche? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2549
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When someone dies very young?

In the apt situation, would the cliche be referring to a person? An animal? Is it a situation where someone has a low quality of life? A high quality? A small quantity? Large quantity?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 5615
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Assisted suicide relevant? Regular suicide? A specific disease relevant? Disease in general relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8976
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 9:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
When someone dies very young? no

In the apt situation, would the cliche be referring to a person? yesAn animal? possibly Is it a situation where someone has a low quality of life? no A high quality? yes A small quantity? yes Large quantity? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 5615
Registered: 9-2009

Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 8:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Assisted suicide relevant? not oin the apt but unused situation Regular suicide?ditto A specific disease relevant? dittoDisease in general relevant? ditto
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5631
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Low quantity because of: old age? Disease? Risky behavior? Danger caused by outside factors? Is life sometimes prolonged at the cost of quality in this situation? Is a medical procedure relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 8977
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Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5631
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Posted on Friday, March 22, 2013 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Low quantity because of: old age? no Disease? possiblyRisky behavior? yes Danger caused by outside factors? see previous answerIs life sometimes prolonged at the cost of quality in this situation? not in the unused situationIs a medical procedure relevant? ditto
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Username: Galfisk

Post Number: 5633
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 23, 2013 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the unused situation, is the person: dead? Injured? About to die? At risk of dying? Is risky behavior in general relevant? Specific risky behavior? Is the risk only to the person exhibiting the behavior? To others as well? Does the risky behavior also improve the quality of life?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8978
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 5633
Registered: 9-2009

Posted on Saturday, March 23, 2013 - 9:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
In the unused situation, is the person: dead? no Injured? noAbout to die? noAt risk of dying? yesishIs risky behavior in general relevant? noishSpecific risky behavior? yesIs the risk only to the person exhibiting the behavior? yes To others as well? noDoes the risky behavior also improve the quality of life? You bet!!!!!!! This puzzle is now almost solved.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2558
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the risky behaviour getting certain medical treatment? Eating unhealthily? Smoking? An extreme sport? A dangerous hobby? Something involving risking your life to save others, like firefighting?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8981
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2558
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Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 5:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the risky behaviour getting certain medical treatment? no Eating unhealthily? I think that's the best example Smoking? possibly An extreme sport? \b} less likely}A dangerous hobby?possibly Something involving risking your life to save others, like firefighting? unlikely
Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2559
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you suggesting that the cliche be used as a response to someone who says 'you should eat more healthily/drink less/stop smoking/stop wrestling bears on weekends', as a way to say 'doing this makes my life better and that's worth it even if it could mean my life is shorter'?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 8982
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, March 25, 2013 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Username: Enjay

Post Number: 2559
Registered: 4-2007

Posted on Sunday, March 24, 2013 - 6:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are you suggesting that the cliche be used as a response to someone who says 'you should eat more healthily/drink less/stop smoking/stop wrestling bears on weekends', as a way to say 'doing this makes my life better and that's worth it even if it could mean my life is shorter'? You bet!!

**** SPOLIER *******
A particularly nasty way of trying to keep health care costs low is to try to induce old people & terminally ill people to forgo aggressive life-prolonging medical treatment, on the grounds that the quality of life is more important than the quantity. But no one seems to defend eating lots of fattening foods for that reason, although, as a former fat person, I can assure you that the quality of my life was MUCH higher when I weighed 257 pounds & ate everything I wanted. I didn't have much physical energy, but there's nothing it takes physical energy to do that I find even half as delightful as eating. Isn't it nice that lateral puzzles aren't fattening? Please check out my new one as well as my long-running ones, on which I have recently posted HINTS & RECAPS.

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