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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4608
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 3:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi there folks . I witnessed this rather amusing piece of group behaviour recently and instantly thought it would make a puzzle.

A group of men are talking when suddenly they move about ten feet to their left and continue their conversation without a pause. They weren't fooling anyone least of all me. And as I mentioned my reaction was one of amusement. Can you explain what's going on?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 3535
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Location relevant? If so, indoors? outdoors? a private residence? shop? office? school? restaurant? other public building?

A group of men - relevant how many exactly? less than five? less than 10?
Do the men know each other? are they related? co-workers? friends?
Relevant what they were talking about?

Is any of the following relevant about the men: their age? job? physical appearance? clothing?
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 601
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Posted on Friday, April 05, 2013 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they move themselves or did something move them?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4609
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Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2013 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Location relevant? Yes If so, indoors? Yes outdoors? a private residence? shop? office? school? restaurant? other public building? Other public building

A group of men - relevant how many exactly? Not especially less than five? 4 less than 10?
Do the men know each other? Yes are they related? co-workers? friends? this
Relevant what they were talking about? Yes

Is any of the following relevant about the men: their age? job? physical appearance? clothing? No to all with a slight ish for age
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4610
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Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2013 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they move themselves or did something move them? They moved themselves. They sort of all gravitated in the one direction
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 603
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Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2013 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the move for safety? Was there a meanness involved in the move? Were they trying to send a message? You said they gravitated, did one move and the others followed?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2013 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You say "they weren't fooling anyone". Were they trying to foll anyone?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did something else relevant also move? If yes, before? after? the men moved?
Did they see? hear? something relevant?
Were they standing when they were talking? Were they still standing after having moved?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4611
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Posted on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes

Was the move for safety? No Was there a meanness involved in the move? No Were they trying to send a message? No You said they gravitated, did one move and the others followed? No and I'm not sure I'm using that word correctly. They all moved at the same time in the same direction as if controlled by some force (which they weren't by the way). Hope that clarifies that
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4612
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Posted on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 10:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin

You say "they weren't fooling anyone". Were they trying to foll anyone? Well they were trying to make what they were doing surreptitious and failing miserably as I figured what they were up to immediately.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4613
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Posted on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 10:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did something else relevant also move? Yes but it's a someone not a something If yes, before? this after? the men moved?
Did they see? Yes hear? Yes something relevant? Yes
Were they standing when they were talking? Were they still standing after having moved? Yes to all
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 3538
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Posted on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 6:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The someone who moved - H/A/M? F? relevant?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 3985
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Posted on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they move towards a relevant thing? further away?

did they move away from a loud noise? loud music? a nasty smell?
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 612
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Posted on Monday, April 08, 2013 - 8:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a HAF involved in the move? Is it to get a better view of something? Is it to get away from something?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2258
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Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 8:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it take place in the pub? In the theater? Did the men overhear a conversation? Did the men wanted to hide the fifth person from the view of others?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4614
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Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana

The someone who moved - H/A/M? F? relevant? A man and I guess it's pretty relevant
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4615
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Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez

did they move towards a relevant thing? Towards the person further away?

did they move away from a loud noise? loud music? a nasty smell? No to these
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4616
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Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes

Is a HAF involved in the move? No Is it to get a better view of something? Yes Is it to get away from something? No
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4617
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Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine

Did it take place in the pub? No In the theater? No Did the men overhear a conversation? This was part of their intention Did the men wanted to hide the fifth person from the view of others? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2263
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Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the conversation start before the men moved? Did the men expect the conversation to start when they moved?
Did the fifth man take part in the relevant conversation? If yes, is it relevant to whom the fifth man spoke? Was the fifth man directly present in the place? Was the other conversing person directly present in the place? Was the conversation broadcasted in the radio? in the TV? Did the fifth man speak via telephone?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4619
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Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine

Did the conversation start before the men moved? Yes Did the men expect the conversation to start when they moved? It had already started
Did the fifth man take part in the relevant conversation? Yes If yes, is it relevant to whom the fifth man spoke? The four guys certainly thought so Was the fifth man directly present in the place? Yes Was the other conversing person directly present in the place? No Was the conversation broadcasted in the radio? in the TV? Did the fifth man speak via telephone? this
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Post Number: 615
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Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2013 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are the men police officers? security personnel? Are they wearing hearing devices and received directions to move?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4621
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Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are the men police officers? No security personnel? No Are they wearing hearing devices and received directions to move? No, don't forget what's interesting about this situation is that the four men moved without any discussion, signal or agreement to do so. They all did it of their own accord but with perfect synchronisation.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2267
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Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the four men have a misconception about the person the fifth man spoke with? About what the conversation was about?
Did something the fifth man said prompt the four men to move?
Is it correct to say that the four men hear part of the conversation, are curious about its continuation and when the speaking man moves they also move in order to be able to hear the continuation of the conversation?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4622
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Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the four men have a misconception about the person the fifth man spoke with? More an assumption than a misconception. Whether they were right is not really relevant About what the conversation was about? Same answer as above
Did something the fifth man said prompt the four men to move? No, merely his presence and the fact that he had a phone to his ear
Is it correct to say that the four men hear part of the conversation, are curious about its continuation and when the speaking man moves they also move in order to be able to hear the continuation of the conversation? This could work without them having heard an initial part of the conversation. They are certainly very keen to hear what the man was saying .


Lets recap: Four men are in an establishment of some sort. They are standing around talking when a 5th man who's just entered the premises pulls out a phone and begins a conversation with somebody. Without necessarily having heard any part of the coversation the four men move in harmony towards the 5th man and while they are tring to play it cool it was pretty obvious to anybody witnessing this that they are trying to hear what was been said.

All you have to do is figure out the scenario that led the men to do this
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 2272
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Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the men think that they would be affected by the effects of the conversation?
Did they know the fifth man? Did they expect the call? Could the caller have called anyone of them with the same effect?
Beachbum (Beachbum)
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Post Number: 580
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Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did any of the four men that moved have phones with them? If so, could one have them have made a call instead that would have cause them not need to be interested in the 5th person's call?

Should we find out more about where they were?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2013 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they in a public place?

a church? a bar? a betting shop? an office? a restaurant? a lift? a hotel? a shop?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4623
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Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine

Did the men think that they would be affected by the effects of the conversation? Not really but they hoped they might
Did they know the fifth man? yes Did they expect the call? No Could the caller have called anyone of them with the same effect? No
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4624
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Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beachbum

Did any of the four men that moved have phones with them? Probably but not relevant If so, could one have them have made a call instead that would have cause them not need to be interested in the 5th person's call? No

Should we find out more about where they were? Yes we should and what's more.........
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4625
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Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 10:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez

are they in a public place? Yes

a church? a bar? a betting shop? Lol I'm getting obvious in my old age , that's a yes an office? a restaurant? a lift? a hotel? a shop? So no to rest
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think the man on the phone had some information on what would be a good bet to place? Was there something on at that moment that they were going to bet on? A horse race? Football match?
Deholmes (Deholmes)
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Posted on Thursday, April 11, 2013 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When Merrill Lynch calls everybody listens?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4626
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Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay

Did they think the man on the phone had some information on what would be a good bet to place? Yes and all that's left is to figure out why Was there something on at that moment that they were going to bet on? Not at that exact moment A horse race? Yes Football match?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Deholmes

When Merrill Lynch calls everybody listens? While this might be true it is definitely irrelevant
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the man on the phone say something which indicated who he was speaking to?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they know the man on the phone?
Was the man on the phone somehow involved in the horse race?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shez

did the man on the phone say something which indicated who he was speaking to? No lets assume they hadn't heard any piece of the conversation before the decided to move closer to the man
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 10:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Doriana

Did they know the man on the phone? Yes
Was the man on the phone somehow involved in the horse race? Well not anyone specific race but he's involved in the sport in general. You should have all you need now
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the man on the phone a tipster? maybe dictating his tips down the phone?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the man on the phone a tipster? No maybe dictating his tips down the phone? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man on the phone the owner of the betting shop? Someone connected professionally with horce racing?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man on the phone the owner of the betting shop? No Someone connected professionally with horce racing? Yes and to save further guessing I'll simply move on to the

*************Spoiler*************

As I said I witnessed this piece of interesting group behaviour in my local betting shop recently.

Four punters were standing around chatting about this and that between races when in walked a gentleman who is very well known in my locality . He's a trainer of racehorses and it would be very rare to see him in a betting shop. Nearly everyone in the shop was watching him intently hoping to get a glimpse of a bet he might put on as he would definitely be in the know especially as one of his horses was running later that day.

Needless to say when he pulled out his mobile to make a call this increased the excitement in the shop.

I watched with amusement as the four guys, without any discussion, gravitated towards the trainer with their ears cocked up trying to overhear his conversation. They were practically standing on his toes. Someone else in the shop was talking loudly and got several dirty looks implying that he should be quiet.

Would this be a call from the trainer to the horse's owner telling him that he was a dead cert? would he be sharing some other precious bit of stable gossip? No it turned out that he was simply phoning his wife to let her know that he would be home in 15 minutes. The look of disappointment on the mens' faces was priceless.

As an aside the trainer's runner later that day ran quite well but finished out of the money.

Hope you enjoyed this, thanks to all who played.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That must have been very funny scene to observe. And nice puzzle, too.

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