[Nimue] And yet another criminal inju... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - September 2013 » [Nimue] And yet another criminal injustice « Previous Next »

Author Message
Nimue (Nimue)
New member
Username: Nimue

Post Number: 9541
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, September 06, 2013 - 7:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A common practice in the American criminal justice system has such an obvious flaw that it's surprising that the practice is common. What is it?
Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2013
Posted on Friday, September 06, 2013 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the practice have to do with law enforcement? The court system? The penal system?

Is the flaw that it allows injustice to occur?

Does the practice have anything to do with:
Judges?
Juries?
Trials?
Attorneys?
Testimony?
Bail?
Sentencing?
Arrests?
Law officers?
Parole?
Legal defenses?
Prosecution?
Evidence?
Plea bargains?
Nimue (Nimue)
New member
Username: Nimue

Post Number: 9545
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 08, 2013 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2013

Posted on Friday, September 06, 2013 - 9:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does the practice have to do with law enforcement? noishThe court system? yesish The penal system? no

Is the flaw that it allows injustice to occur? yes

Does the practice have anything to do with:
Judges?yope or noish
Juries?ditto
Trials?ditto
Attorneys? no
Testimony?yesish or yope
Bail? no
Sentencing? no
Arrests? yesish
Law officers? yesish
Parole? no
Legal defenses?no
Prosecution? yesish
Evidence? yes -- best match in this group
Plea bargains? no, although plea bargains REEK with injustices that do not bear on this puzzle!!
Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 42
Registered: 8-2013
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'll focus on evidence for now. Does it have to do with how evidence is entered? About what evidence you can use in a trial? Does it have to do with expert testimony? Does this practice allow evidence that is flawed? Does it exclude evidence that's valid? Wild guess, but are statistics relevant?

Does this practice promote injustice by making it easier for the innocent to be punished? Or does it make it less likely the guilty will be punished?

Is this practice exclusive to the United States? Did it show up recently in a high-profile court case?
Nimue (Nimue)
New member
Username: Nimue

Post Number: 9559
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 42
Registered: 8-2013

Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 2:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I'll focus on evidence for now. Does it have to do with how evidence is entered? noish About what evidence you can use in a trial? yes Does it have to do with expert testimony? no Does this practice allow evidence that is flawed? yes Does it exclude evidence that's valid? no Wild guess, but are statistics relevant? no

Does this practice promote injustice by making it easier for the innocent to be punished? yes Or does it make it less likely the guilty will be punished? no

Is this practice exclusive to the United States?+ I doubt it very much Did it show up recently in a high-profile court case? not that I know of
Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 44
Registered: 8-2013
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this practice allow false evidence? Does it allow true evidence that should be irrelevant to a trial? Does it allow for evidence that is unscientific? Does it prevent defendants from presenting certain evidence? Does allow evidence that, while true, gives a false impression?

Would the average American be aware of this practice? Or is it fairly obscure? Is this practice a recent development?

Any of the following relevant:
Alibis
Hearsay
5th Amendment
Rape shield laws
Polygraphs
Access to evidence
Burden of proof
Reasonable doubt
Confessions
Circumstantial evidence
Privileged communication (doctor-patient, clergy, etc.)
The right to face your accuser

(At this point, I'm just spitballing every Law and Order controversy I can remember!)
Nimue (Nimue)
New member
Username: Nimue

Post Number: 9562
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 44
Registered: 8-2013

Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 7:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does this practice allow false evidence? yesish Does it allow true evidence that should be irrelevant to a trial? yope Does it allow for evidence that is unscientific? yesDoes it prevent defendants from presenting certain evidence? no Does allow evidence that, while true, gives a false impression?m yesish

Would the average American be aware of this practice? yes Or is it fairly obscure? no Is this practice a recent development? no

Any of the following relevant:
Alibis no
Hearsay no
5th Amendment no
Rape shield laws no
Polygraphs no
Access to evidence no
Burden of proof no
Reasonable doubt noish

Confessionsno
Circumstantial evidence no
Privileged communication (doctor-patient, clergy, etc.) no
The right to face your accuser no

(At this point, I'm just spitballing every Law and Order controversy I can remember!) You're overlooking something that is very common on "Law & Order"!!
Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 46
Registered: 8-2013
Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are forensics relevant? DNA? Does the practice allow for a specific kind of evidence experts consider inexact?

Is the flaw present in every application of the practice? Or are some applications free of the flaw? Would the average American think the practice is just? Are most Americans aware of the flaw?

Self-defense relevant? Insanity? Does this practice apply to a specific criminal offense? Does it apply to all criminal offenses?
Nimue (Nimue)
New member
Username: Nimue

Post Number: 9565
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 46
Registered: 8-2013

Posted on Monday, September 09, 2013 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are forensics relevant?what's the precise scope of 'forensics'?} DNA? no Does the practice allow for a specific kind of evidence experts consider inexact? yesish

Is the flaw present in every application of the practice? yes Or are some applications free of the flaw? no Would the average American think the practice is just? I'm not sureAre most Americans aware of the flaw? ditto

Self-defense relevant? no Insanity? noDoes this practice apply to a specific criminal offense? not just one Does it apply to all criminal offenses? no
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member
Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 6306
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensics The 'scope' of forensics (or forensic science) seems to be a pretty big one.
Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 47
Registered: 8-2013
Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've forgotten to ask about an assumption I've had: Does this practice allow for a specific kind of evidence? Or does the practice apply to pretty much all evidence?

Does this practice have to do with physical evidence? Does it apply to electronic evidence? Does it apply to psychological evidence? Are we talking about evidence that could be filed as an exhibit during a trial? Does it have to do with evidence of mens rea? Actus rea?

Re: forensics: Does this practice involve the use of a science? Does it involve the use of technology? If so, would it help to know the science or technology involved?

Is this practice most likely to come up in a felony trial? A Misdemeanor trial? Traffic court? Does it apply in violent crimes and nonviolent crimes equally? Does this practice come up in most criminal trials? Does it come up in very few trials? Has it ever led to a false conviction that you know of?
Nimue (Nimue)
New member
Username: Nimue

Post Number: 9568
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 47
Registered: 8-2013

Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
I've forgotten to ask about an assumption I've had: Does this practice allow for a specific kind of evidence? yesOr does the practice apply to pretty much all evidence? no -- GOOOOD QUESTIONS!!!

Does this practice have to do with physical evidence? yes Does it apply to electronic evidence? no| Does it apply to psychological evidence? yesAre we talking about evidence that could be filed as an exhibit during a trial? noDoes it have to do with evidence of mens rea? no Actus rea? no

Re: forensics: Does this practice involve the use of a science? no Does it involve the use of technology? noIf so, would it help to know the science or technology involved? n/a

Is this practice most likely to come up in a felony trial? yesA Misdemeanor trial? I'm not sureTraffic court? less likely Does it apply in violent crimes and nonviolent crimes equally? yes| Does this practice come up in most criminal trials? many, but I'm not sure about most Does it come up in very few trials? no Has it ever led to a false conviction that you know of? I think I've heard of some
Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 52
Registered: 8-2013
Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the practice simply "X is allowed to be used as evidence in trial"? Or is it a broader practice that consequently leads to that rule? Would the evidence the practice allows be physical evidence left at the scene of the crime?

Is the flaw in the practice some sort of human error? Does this practice rely on someone's subjective opinion? Someone's memory? Are witnesses relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
New member
Username: Nimue

Post Number: 9570
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, September 13, 2013 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 52
Registered: 8-2013

Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 11:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the practice simply "X is allowed to be used as evidence in trial"? yes Or is it a broader practice that consequently leads to that rule? noWould the evidence the practice allows be physical evidence left at the scene of the crime? no

Is the flaw in the practice some sort of human error? yes Does this practice rely on someone's subjective opinion? yes Someone's memory? yes Are witnesses relevant? yes
Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 55
Registered: 8-2013
Posted on Friday, September 13, 2013 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the 'witnesses' who are relevant eyewitnesses? Or are they the general sort of witnesses who get called to the stand (including character witnesses, expert witnesses, etc.)

Is the practice letting eyewitnesses testify at trials? Even though studies consistently show eyewitnesses are terrible at remembering crucial details?

Is the practice picking the perpetrator out of a line-up? Again, if so, is the flaw that witnesses are pretty bad about these sort of things? Alternatively, is the flaw that the people running the lineup know who the perpetrator is?
Nimue (Nimue)
New member
Username: Nimue

Post Number: 9572
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hamilton (Hamilton)
New member
Username: Hamilton

Post Number: 55
Registered: 8-2013

Posted on Friday, September 13, 2013 - 9:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Are the 'witnesses' who are relevant eyewitnesses? yesOr are they the general sort of witnesses who get called to the stand (including character witnesses, expert witnesses, etc.) no

Is the practice letting eyewitnesses testify at trials? see next answer but oneEven though studies consistently show eyewitnesses are terrible at remembering crucial details? see next answer

Is the practice picking the perpetrator out of a line-up? yesAgain, if so, is the flaw that witnesses are pretty bad about these sort of things? it's more specific than that Alternatively, is the flaw that the people running the lineup know who the perpetrator is? no

This is close enough for me to declare a
***** SPOILER ******
Not only is eyewitness testimony generally unreliable, but a line-up where the witness has to pick one person out of five who are all presented at once is especially flawed, since he knows the suspect is one of the five & may be tempted, consciously or unconsciously, to pick the one who looks most like the person he saw. Studies have suggested that, if lineups are used at all, greater accuracy results if the witness sees one candidate at a time & asked, "Is this the one?" without the option of changing a no to a yes after all the candidates. Please see my new puzzle!!

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: