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Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 767
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 3:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

based on a recent news story

...the perils of primogeniture
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 4836
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Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was someone leaving their estate to a first born son? Did they actually have a son?

Did something go wrong? Is this story funny? sad? tragic? Is this a 'the law's an ass' type story? Did a relevant court case take place?

Location relevant? Title relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 6304
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Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it absolute primogeniture? (firstborn child inherits regardless of gender)

Agnatic primogeniture? (elder sons and their descendants inherit before younger sons and theirs - the complete exclusion of women is called Salic law)

Semi-Salic law? (daughters and sisters only inherit when the male lines are ended)

Male-preference cognatic primogeniture? (A female can inherit if she has no living brothers and no deceased brothers who left surviving legitimate issue - for example, this is why Elizabeth II became Queen)

Matrilineal primogeniture? (the line is reckoned through women, and only women can inherit - very uncommon)

Uterine primogeniture? (a male would be succeeded by his sister's son - this is the way the Picts reckoned inheritance, and also the Etruscans of Northern Italy, since his sister's children would always be related to him, (mater semper certa est).
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 768
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Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was someone leaving their estate to a first born son? Estates n.r. Did they actually have a son? Yes/yessish

Did something go wrong? Yes, but 'ware FA Is this story funny? Yes; at least, I found it amusing. sad? tragic? no to these. Is this a 'the law's an ass' type story? certainly 'the law is ill-informed,' yes. Did a relevant court case take place? No

Location relevant? Yes, very. Title relevant? Only in my twisted imagination.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 769
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Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it absolute primogeniture? No
Agnatic primogeniture? No
Semi-Sallic law? No
Male-preference cognatic primogeniture.why Elizabeth II became queen; yes, this is relevant.
Matrilineal primogeniture? No. This is very rare - among humans.
Uterine primogeniture? No. I didn't know that about the Picts, Kaylee. This should be easy for you, as our resident history buff!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 6308
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Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha...are we even talking about humans?

Elephants again?

Other mammals? kittehz?!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 6309
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Posted on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is male-preference cognatic primogeniture as a system relevant? Is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II relevant? Is the history of British royalty and inheritance relevant?

HRH Prince George Alexander Louis of Cambridge relevant?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 770
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Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 2:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha...are we even talking about humans?

Elephants again? Yes to humans, no to elephants

Other mammals? kittehz?! no, no

Is male-preference cognatic primogeniture as a system relevant? As a system, I would say no.
Is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II relevant? YES Is the history of British royalty and inheritance relevant? no/noish - mostly no.

HRH Prince George Alexander Louis of Cambridge relevant? Cute as he is, no.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 6310
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Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 5:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that if the Queen had brothers, she would not have been Queen? That she was not expected to be Queen, as Edward was George V's heir and succeeded as Edward VIII (for less than a year)? (Although if he had stayed King, she would have become Queen anyway eventually, as Edward VIII had no children.)
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 771
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Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that if the Queen had brothers, she would not have been Queen? All true, but irr. Not to mislead - the Queen herself is relevant to the puzzle only as a member of the Royal Family. Another Royal is at the center of the puzzle. (Hint)
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 6311
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Posted on Thursday, September 12, 2013 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha!

Is said Royal male? female? Currently alive? If so:
(and I'm dispensing with territorial designations here for the peace of mind of some other LTPF'ers)

Prince Philip?
Prince Charles? Camilla?
Princess Anne?
Prince Andrew? Fergie? (though she's more of an ex-Royal, but seems to be getting back into the family circle)
Prince Edward? Sophie?

Prince William? Catherine? Prince Harry?
Peter Phillips? Autumn Phillips? Zara Tindall? Michael Tindall?
Princess Beatrice? Princess Eugenie?
Lady Louise? James?

Prince George?
Savannah Phillips? Isla Phillips?

Descendants of Princess Margaret?

Other descendants of George V?

Dead royals relevant? George VI? The Queen Mum? Edward VIII/The Duke of Windsor? George V? Queen Mary? Should I be going further back?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 774
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Posted on Friday, September 13, 2013 - 12:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is said Royal male? yes female? Currently alive? yes

Prince Andrew? Yes, him.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 6313
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Posted on Friday, September 13, 2013 - 2:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*ahem* The Security Guard Incident?

Or that Prince Andrew's branch of the family is being trimmed back from some royal appearances? Apparently due to Prince Charles' influence (or so it seems)?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Username: Solo1

Post Number: 775
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Posted on Friday, September 13, 2013 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*ahem* The Security Guard Incident? Yes!

************SPOILER************
Two days after an intruder was discovered prowling around Buckingham Palace, police confronted a man walking in the gardens, and asked to see his ID. Turned out to be the Queens second son, Prince Andrew, Duke of York.
While the Heir would have been recognized instantly, not so much the Spare, illustrating both the perils of primogeniture and the perils of not being the primo-.


The puzzle title is my own rhyming slang: fork = York.
Now I'm curious. Wonder how the members of the Royal family are identified on their driver's licenses? Presumably the Queen doesn't need one.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 6314
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My guess is Andrew (Albert Christian Edward?) Mountbatten-Windsor, since Mountbatten-Windsor is his legal surname when he needs to use one. Or perhaps he would use York, though the territorial designation seems to be used as a surname mostly by the heirs of the title holders, not by the title holders themselves.

The Queen might be noted as Queen Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor, if it came to needing one.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Username: Solo1

Post Number: 777
Registered: 5-2012
Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 4:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That clears that up - but how do they get it all on one line?

I posted this especially for you, Kaylee-kitteh, cause I thought you would enjoy it. ;-)
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 6315
Registered: 9-2010
Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2013 - 6:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*offers Soli-kitteh cheezburger* Thnx for awesome puzzle, Soli-kitteh! muchly appreciated. *purr*

As for how they fit it all on one line...I have no idea. *mind boggles* I think Edward VIII still has the record for longest name, though O.o

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