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Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 489
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Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 2:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You have my personal guarantee that I'll stay around until this one is solved.

A woman in her mid 20s is forced to lie, very publicly, about her month of birth. She then becomes much wealthier. What is going on?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, Wiz - good to see you around again. You've not aged a bit!

Is this anything to do with inheritance? Legitimacy of her birth in relation to the date of her parents' marriage? Or summat like that?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have seen your name in the archives, but don't believe I've seen you around. Pleasure to meet - encounter - whatever-word-you-want-to-use you.

Is the lied month relevant? The actual month?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:

Hey, Wiz - good to see you around again. You've not aged a bit! Thanks, Lynne, and hello to you. I didn't expect my first response to be from someone who was already active when I joined these forums in the year 2000, but I'm delighted that it was. I will update my profile soon; for now, this was the only one for which I remembered the password.

Is this anything to do with inheritance? no Legitimacy of her birth in relation to the date of her parents' marriage? That isn't the solution I had in mind, but it's a perfectly good and lateral answer to the question. Not to give too much away too early, but my intended answer relies a little more on every clause in the statement being met Or summat like that? no

Balin:

I have seen your name in the archives, but don't believe I've seen you around. Pleasure to meet - encounter - whatever-word-you-want-to-use you. Likewise. I've been something of a shuffling ghost on these forums over the last decade, occasionally appearing to rattle my chains and moan piteously about the decline in popularity of hosting puzzles using a 'classic' format. Woo-oo-oo-ooh.

Is the lied month relevant? no The actual month? yes, with a soupcon of ish. Further questioning may clear the clouds in this particular coffee.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm far less active than I was back then but I make an appearance every so often, especially if I find good puzzle material in a book or something

Anyhoo, by public did she have to lie to a judge? Or to a large crowd? In a newspaper or other journal? Did she have to maintain that lie forever in order to keep the wealth or was it a one-off occasion?

Did the money come from another individual? An organisation? Charity? Compensation?
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Posted on Monday, September 23, 2013 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she the person who originally lied, or was it a case of going along with someone else's lie, or mistake?
Did the lie make her younger or older than she actually was, or is this relevant?
WAG: Is the difference between US dating (M/D/Y) and European dating (D/M/Y) relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 12:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:

I'm far less active than I was back then but I make an appearance every so often, especially if I find good puzzle material in a book or something I've recently taken to songwriting - if I find an unusual story or scenario I often convert it to lyrics. This very puzzle is something I've written (and published) a song about. I can't put my finger on why I've fallen off the LTPF wagon for the umpteenth time, though.

Anyhoo, by public did she have to lie to a judge? no Or to a large crowd? a crowd was present In a newspaper or other journal? no Did she have to maintain that lie forever in order to keep the wealth or was it a one-off occasion? the wealth wasn't conditional on the lie being upheld, but there would likely have been penalties had she deliberately exposed herself

Did the money come from another individual? An organisation? this is closest Charity? Compensation?

Solo1: (Hi, by the way)

Was she the person who originally lied yes, or was it a case of going along with someone else's lie there is also an element of this, or mistake? no
Did the lie make her younger or older than she actually was, or is this relevant? irrelevant
WAG: Is the difference between US dating (M/D/Y) and European dating (D/M/Y) relevant? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this in the present day? If not, was the era relevant? Early/late 20th century? 19th century? Earlier?

Was her marital status relevant? If so, was she single? Married? Divorced? Widowed?

Does her lie make her appear younger or older than she actually is? Tax breaks relevant?

Was a minimum age relevant? For a career?
Did she enlist in the armed forces?

Did she become wealthy immediately? Or was it a huge salary that she needed to keep earning?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:

Was this in the present day? no If not, was the era relevant? yes Early/late 20th century? mid-20th 19th century? Earlier? no to both

Was her marital status relevant? yes If so, was she single? Married? this Divorced? Widowed?

Does her lie make her appear younger or older than she actually is? it had neither effect Tax breaks relevant? no

Was a minimum age relevant? no For a career? n/a
Did she enlist in the armed forces? no

Did she become wealthy immediately? not immediately exactly, but shortly afterwards and causally linked Or was it a huge salary that she needed to keep earning? no

Good questions.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 8:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were any historical events relevant?
Was she the only one?
Did her husband know about this? If so, was his help necessary?
Was it some form of competition?
Did she have to appear that she was born within a certain time frame? Born after a particular event had occurred? Or before?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jews relevant? WWII?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Leap year relevant?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she lie she was born earlier/later than she actually was?

Some sort of contest relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By forced do you mean anything akin to torture? Or just that this was the only way to become wealthy in this situation?
Had she been in prison?

I meant to ask about WWII as well. Was she in a prisoner of war camp?

Was lying also the only way she could escape something?

Did her husband lie too? Or was he one who was coercing her? Did he become wealthy as a direct result of this?

If in fact WWII was relevant, did she have to prove she was 21 (I'm assuming not 18) at the time goods were seized and she's making a 'lawful' claim to get back her family's property?
Hamilton (Hamilton)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was she born in [List of months]? Year of her birth relevant?

Is the exact country where this is happening relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 9:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:

Were any historical events relevant? no
Was she the only one? To do what? Lie in this manner for financial gain? If so, then yes
Did her husband know about this? yes If so, was his help necessary? yes
Was it some form of competition? yes!
Did she have to appear that she was born within a certain time frame? no Born after a particular event had occurred? no Or before? no

Alhucema:

Jews relevant? WWII? no to either
Leap year relevant? no
Did she lie she was born earlier/later than she actually was? irrelevant - it could have gone either way

Some sort of contest relevant? yes!

Lynne redux:

By forced do you mean anything akin to torture? no Or just that this was the only way to become wealthy in this situation? yes - although there would have been further consequences had she not been made to lie
Had she been in prison? no

I meant to ask about WWII as well. Was she in a prisoner of war camp? no

Was lying also the only way she could escape something? no

Did her husband lie too? yes Or was he one who was coercing her? no! Did he become wealthy as a direct result of this? yes

If in fact WWII was relevant, did she have to prove she was 21 (I'm assuming not 18) at the time goods were seized and she's making a 'lawful' claim to get back her family's property? interesting scenario, but no

Hamilton: (I recently visited relatives in Hamilton. City's really booming right now).

Was she born in [List of months]? either July or August Year of her birth relevant? no

Is the exact country where this is happening relevant? To the best of my knowledge, this situation is specific to one country, but it reflects a socio-historical paradigm rather than a specific event or location
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correction:

She could have been born in either June or July, not July or August.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was the crowd the audience?
Was it a Mr and Mrs type contest where the answers had to match with their spouse?
Was the wealth the prize money?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this country in Asia? Europe? America? Australia? Africa?

Relevant?

Do prejudices come into play?

The signs of the Zodiac? Like, did she have to be born in a certain sign to receive the fortune?

The wealth - was it inheritance? Did she receive it from one person? More? Was the person(s) a relative (relatives) of her? her husband? or total stranger(s)?
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Big baby race relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:

So was the crowd the audience? yes
Was it a Mr and Mrs type contest yes! where the answers had to match with their spouse? not 'matching' per se, but knowing one's spouse well was key to succeeding on the show
Was the wealth the prize money? yes!

Aren't you clever?

Alhucema:

Is this country in Asia? Europe? America? this Australia? Africa?

Relevant? only contextually, really

Do prejudices come into play? no-ish

The signs of the Zodiac? yes! Like, did she have to be born in a certain sign to receive the fortune? no

Alhucema:

Big baby race relevant? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now I'm puzzled as to how she was able to line up her answers with her husband as I didn't think they knew what the other one would have said. Hmmm.

Did she say her birth month first and he then said a sign of the Zodiac? Did she say a month knowing full well that he only knew one sign - Cancer?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now I'm puzzled as to how she was able to line up her answers with her husband as I didn't think they knew what the other one would have said. Hmmm. there's a possible FA here regarding the format of the show. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting.

Did she say her birth month first and he then said a sign of the Zodiac? no Did she say a month knowing full well that he only knew one sign - Cancer? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, is the format that they both are asked questions about each other and they have to match? They are asked a question about themselves, and then the spouse gets asked the same question and it needs to be the same.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The bit about having to lie sort of implied that she knew her husband had got/would get the answer wrong, and she had to go along with that by lying.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, is the format that they both are asked questions about each other and they have to match? They are asked a question about themselves, and then the spouse gets asked the same question and it needs to be the same. no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I'm stumped. I never watched the programme but when it was played as a party game we took that format; it was to test their knowledge of each other.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I'm stumped. I never watched the programme but when it was played as a party game we took that format; it was to test their knowledge of each other. Working out the intricacies of the format isn't really important to solving this one. If you like, we can proceed with this puzzle assuming the 'matching' format, as the puzzle would work equally well with that. Remember that we've established that the husband was aware of the lie and his help was enlisted, even though he was not the instigator of the lie or the one who compelled her to.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK - I'd be interested to hear later what format was actually used as I Googled the programme (knowing that it wouldn't give me the answer to this puzzle!) and it did appear to be how I recall it. Maybe the spouse would be given three options to choose from, but basically to agree with what their spouse had said. There was one funny incident where the husband was asked what his wife's favourite flower was and he said 'That's easy - Homepride'.

If he was aware of the lie, had it come up in a previous question? Did the wife deliberately gave an alternate month? Did he have to give her Zodiac sign? Did she always refer to that month as her birth month, even off the show?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah, she was 'compelled' to lie. Did she cause that herself? Had she given an answer previously that meant that, to be consistent, she had to falsify her month of birth?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If he was aware of the lie, had it come up in a previous question? no Did the wife deliberately gave an alternate month? yes! Did he have to give her Zodiac sign? yes Did she always refer to that month as her birth month, even off the show? no

Ah, she was 'compelled' to lie. Did she cause that herself? Had she given an answer previously that meant that, to be consistent, she had to falsify her month of birth? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When he gave her Zodiac sign did he know at that point what month she had said? Or the other way round - did she know what Zodiac sign he had said?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When he gave her Zodiac sign did he know at that point what month she had said? he knew that she would say/write down the false zodiac sign, yes Or the other way round - did she know what Zodiac sign he had said? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she have a strategic reason for giving a false zodiac sign? Or did she just not know the zodiac signs very well?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she have a strategic reason for giving a false zodiac sign? as in, stratagem to win the game? no Or did she just not know the zodiac signs very well? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she have any trouble pronouncing/spelling her correct zodiac sign?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she have any trouble pronouncing/spelling her correct zodiac sign? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had they planned in advance to say that zodiac sign if the question came up?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had they planned in advance to say that zodiac sign if the question came up? no!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the zodiac divisions changed? The cusp dates altered slightly?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 1:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had the zodiac divisions changed? The cusp dates altered slightly? no to either
Hamilton (Hamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 2:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it necessary for the sake of the puzzle that the Zodiac sign was Cancer? Could this puzzle work just as well if she had lied about being born in November, and then said she was a Scorpio?

Did the husband and wife devise a strategy before the game? Was she required to initially lie about her birth month as part of that strategy?

If she had told the truth about her birth month and Zodiac, and so did her husband, would they still have won? Did she lie to the producers about her birth month before the game, or was the initial lie during the game?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 2:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it necessary for the sake of the puzzle that the Zodiac sign was Cancer? yes! Could this puzzle work just as well if she had lied about being born in November, and then said she was a Scorpio? Many Scorpios are born in November. But no, it wouldn't work with another month

Did the husband and wife devise a strategy before the game? no Was she required to initially lie about her birth month as part of that strategy? no

If she had told the truth about her birth month and Zodiac, and so did her husband, would they still have won? I would be speculating - there would doubtless have been negative consequences, one of which could have been their not winning the game, or substantially changing its outcome Did she lie to the producers about her birth month before the game no, or was the initial lie during the game? yes
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 8:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the fact that cancer is also a disease relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the date of the show relevant?
Are other questions in the contest relevant, besides the one about birth date and Zodiac?
Did the circumstance that compelled her to lie happen during the show? Outside of the show?
Did she know she will have to lie before the birth/Zodiac question was asked?
Were there any particular people in the audience, who knew her real date of birth? Who knew her false date of birth as the real one?
Would the negative consequences of her telling the truth concern only the show and its outcome?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:

Was the fact that cancer is also a disease relevant? yes!

Redwing:

Is the date of the show relevant? era more than date, but yes
Are other questions in the contest relevant, besides the one about birth date and Zodiac? no
Did the circumstance that compelled her to lie happen during the show? during Outside of the show? no
Did she know she will have to lie before the birth/Zodiac question was asked? no!
Were there any particular people in the audience, who knew her real date of birth? irrelevant Who knew her false date of birth as the real one? no
Would the negative consequences of her telling the truth concern only the show and its outcome? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a misunderstanding about the meaning of the word cancer in this context?
Who made that error? The husband or the wife?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a misunderstanding about the meaning of the word cancer in this context? no
Who made that error? The husband or the wife? n/a
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the word cancer was used did it refer to a zodiac sign or the disease?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the word cancer was used did it refer to a zodiac sign or the disease? zodiac
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The era: 1940s, 1950s, 1960s?
Had something happened with cancer research at that time?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The era: 1940s, 1950s, this 1960s? also applicable here
Had something happened with cancer research at that time? no
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could this have happened in another era? Another country? President of the USA relevant? Other famous bods?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Could this have happened in another era? no Another country? no President of the USA relevant? no Other famous bods? another famous entity is relevant, but it's not a single person
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a medical entity? Political party? Religious group?
Hamilton (Hamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So to clarify the sense I'm getting: If she told the truth, would she have faced negative consequences once she returned home with her husband? Related to her answer, but otherwise unrelated to the show?

Is the era relevant because it explained why she had to lie? Does this take place during the 1950's? The 1940's? If this exact situation was replicated in modern day, would she need to lie?

Did any person relevant to this puzzle have cancer?
Hamilton (Hamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow! Sorry for re-asking a few questions. Didn't expect the rapid fire Q and A between you and Lynne while I was editing my questions.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:

Was it a medical entity? Political party? Religious group? none of the above

Hamilton:

So to clarify the sense I'm getting: If she told the truth, would she have faced negative consequences once she returned home with her husband? no, the damage would have been done by then Related to her answer, but otherwise unrelated to the show? the consequences were more broadly related to the show

Is the era relevant because it explained why she had to lie? Not sure I understand the question. The parameters that lead to her having to lie are unique to this era Does this take place during the 1950's? this The 1940's? If this exact situation was replicated in modern day, would she need to lie? it would be highly unlikely to be replicated today; but even if it were, it's less likely she would need to lie. Again, this is educated speculation.

Did any person relevant to this puzzle have cancer? no specific persons having cancer is relevant to the solution

Wow! Sorry for re-asking a few questions. Didn't expect the rapid fire Q and A between you and Lynne while I was editing my questions. No worries. I've been here (on-and-off) for over a decade, and haven't encountered thrust-and-parry like this until now
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the early days of the forum more people were online and at one point I answered three people's questions in one minute! I miss those days..... :-)
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The group of famous bods - A singing group?
Hamilton (Hamilton)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other body: A business? A government agency? Media entity?

Was this live television? Relevant?

Is the scandal over TV channels fixing game shows in the early days of television relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This puzzle is working fine for me.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And now it's working fine for me. I don't know what was going on there.

Lynne:

The group of famous bods - A singing group? no

Hamilton:

Other body: A business? this A government agency? Media entity? no to others

Was this live television? no Relevant? yes

Is the scandal over TV channels fixing game shows in the early days of television relevant? Indeed it is! Well done. Time to put the pieces together, I think
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, well done Hamilton. I would never ever have got that. I was too young back then to be aware of American TV rigging.

So had they been coached as to the answers they had to give? (And I'm still intrigued as to the format the show took).
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the business involved the ones who gave the prize money?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Clarification: This puzzle is about fixing game shows in the early days of television, but the channels are not the perpetrators here.

Lynne:

So had they been coached as to the answers they had to give? no - not in advance, and not for all responses (And I'm still intrigued as to the format the show took). You will likely find it anti-climactic :P
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Was the business involved the ones who gave the prize money? yes, but there's more to it
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there two sets of couples playing against each other? Did they have identical questions set to each couple?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It wasn't live - did they re-record her answers to make sure she was correct? Did they hint to her that the correct zodiac sign was like that of a disease?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were there two sets of couples playing against each other? yes, but irrelevant Did they have identical questions set to each couple? yes

It wasn't live - did they re-record her answers yes to make sure she was correct? no! Did they hint to her that the correct zodiac sign was like that of a disease? 'they' were well aware of that, and probably let her know, yes
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We are very close now.
Hamilton (Hamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well that was a lucky guess! I think I got it. Did the business sponsoring the prize object to cancer being mentioned on the show? So they forced her to re-record her answer and say something else? Was the show sponsored by a cigarette company?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well that was a lucky guess! I think I got it. Did the business sponsoring the prize object to cancer being mentioned on the show? did they ever! So they forced her to re-record her answer and say something else? yes Was the show sponsored by a cigarette company? and the final piece falls into place

********** SPOILER **********

She was a contestant on the early American gameshow 'Do you trust your wife?', which was sponsored (and heavily influenced) by the R.J. Reynolds tobacco company. When her husband was asked her star sign, he correctly responded that she was a Cancer. Not wanting that word said on television, the sponsors forced a re-shoot in which she claimed to be a different sign entirely. The husband was still awarded the point, and they went on to win the top prize in the show.


Congratulations to all of you, but particularly Hamilton for the solution and some excellent leaps and bounds in the mid-to-late game, and Lynne, for her excellent establishing questions and a truly admirable amount of tenacity.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK they rerecorded her to make sure she gave the wrong answer but she would still walk away with a substantial amount of money?

Actually, by 'correct' I had meant they wanted her to give the answer they wanted her to.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ah - sorry for my lack of participation in this puzzle, Wizard, especially since you're doing so well on mine. This is a gameshow I never heard of, so I was thoroughly confused, but now you've taught me something =) Yay, Hamilton, Lynne and everyone =D
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops. Typing now on a phone is so slow! Good puzzle
Hamilton (Hamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This was a great puzzle! I should mention a tad belatedly that I've never been to the city of Hamilton; my name is instead a reference to my favorite American Founding Father.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's kind of proof that they knew about a link between smoking and cigarettes a lot earlier than the official admitting it. After all, who would link a zodiac sign to the illness in the context of a simple question?

And I'm still ready to hear how they asked questions, anticlimax or not!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 9:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOL I meant they knew a link between smoking and cancer...
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Friday, September 27, 2013 - 2:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's quite remarkable the extent to which R. J. Reynolds covered up anything that could be linked to the detrimental effects of smoking. Heroes could smoke cigarettes, but villains could not. These same villains could be thieves or murderers on a massive scale, provided their crimes involved no fire or arson. Smoke and flames were generally edited out of anything, as was coughing for any reason.

The 'do you trust your wife' example is a fine exhibit of this sort of lunacy, but not the most egregious, in my opinion. The American Gas Association once sponsored a graphic holocaust drama, which went into remarkable depth and strove for realism, with the following exception: All references to gas were removed.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As an ex smoker and current cancerian I used to hate it when people asked me what star sign I was. Particularly if I was smoking at the time.

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