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Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 18
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2013 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the championship table, Marc is in first place, and Jorge is in second place.

Last race, Jorge won the race, and Marc finished second. But Marc extended his lead in the championship table as a result of points awarded for that race. How is this possible?

[this is a true situation so if you follow this sport you may already know this!]
Lynne (Lynne)
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Username: Lynne

Post Number: 5527
Registered: 12-2000
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2013 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aggregate scores relevant here?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 22
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2013 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:
Aggregate scores relevant here? In as much as adding together the race result to the current championship table, Yes, otherwise No.
Sleepingbeaver (Sleepingbeaver)
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Username: Sleepingbeaver

Post Number: 94
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2013 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Marc score more points than Jorge in the last race?
Are points awarded for other efforts than the final race positions?
Was Jorge stripped of some of his points from thechampionship before?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 26
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2013 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sleepingbeaver:

Did Marc score more points than Jorge in the last race? Yes

Are points awarded for other efforts than the final race positions? No

Was Jorge stripped of some of his points from thechampionship before? No
Amol (Amol)
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Username: Amol

Post Number: 74
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Marc start with some handicap ?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 38
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Amol:
Did Marc start with some handicap ? No
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specific type of race relevant? Is it a footrace? A race in vehicles? A horse race? A swim race?

Were Marc and Jorge on a team, either on the table or during the race?

If Marc had won the race, would he still have extended his lead? Would it have been by a greater amount than coming in second? Is there a finishing position in the race at which point he would have seen his lead decrease, assuming Jorge still comes in first?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 42
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Monday, September 30, 2013 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alexanderhamilton:

Is the specific type of race relevant? No
Is it a footrace? No
A race in vehicles? Yes
A horse race? No
A swim race? No

Were Marc and Jorge on a team, either on the table or during the race? No

If Marc had won the race, would he still have extended his lead? Yes
Would it have been by a greater amount than coming in second? Yes

Is there a finishing position in the race at which point he would have seen his lead decrease, assuming Jorge still comes in first? Yes
Amol (Amol)
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Username: Amol

Post Number: 77
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the performance in the previous race(s) influence how many points a person gets in this race ? Are there any bonus points if you have done better earlier ?

Is the performance of some other racer relevant ?

Are there points for arriving on time, not earlier, not later ? (Like in some car rallies ?)
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Username: Alexanderhamilton

Post Number: 18
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this a car race? Is this NASCAR? Bonus points for leading laps relevant?

Are any earlier races relevant at all? If this had been the first and only race in the series, would Marc be leading on the table?

Is the format of the championship table measured by time (In other words, might Marc' score by listed as 6:43:21)? Or instead, are points awarded at the end of races?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 56
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2013 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Amol:

Does the performance in the previous race(s) influence how many points a person gets in this race ? No
Are there any bonus points if you have done better earlier ? No

Is the performance of some other racer relevant ? Yes

Are there points for arriving on time, not earlier, not later ? (Like in some car rallies ?) No


Alexanderhamilton:

Is this a car race? No
Is this NASCAR? No
Bonus points for leading laps relevant? No

Are any earlier races relevant at all? Yes
If this had been the first and only race in the series, would Marc be leading on the table? Yes

Is the format of the championship table measured by time (In other words, might Marc' score by listed as 6:43:21)? No
Or instead, are points awarded at the end of races? Yes
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Username: Yojimbo

Post Number: 27
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tour de France?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 4901
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is starting position on a grid taken into account when awarding points? Would this incident have caused controversy? An appeal from Jorge? Fuel consumption relevant? Was there any foul play going on?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 63
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo:

Tour de France? No


Peter365:

Is starting position on a grid taken into account when awarding points? No
Would this incident have caused controversy? No
An appeal from Jorge? No
Fuel consumption relevant? No
Was there any foul play going on? No
Amol (Amol)
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Username: Amol

Post Number: 78
Registered: 7-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Marc in the first position before the last race ? second ?

Was Jorge in the second position before the last race ? first ? third or below ?

Was someone else (Paul) in the second position before the last race ? And because he did not do well in the last race, Jorge rose to the second position ?
Sleepingbeaver (Sleepingbeaver)
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Username: Sleepingbeaver

Post Number: 97
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are extra points (or alle the points) for the championship awarded for overall team performance?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 70
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Amol:

Was Marc in the first position before the last race ? Yes
second ? No

Was Jorge in the second position before the last race ? No
first ? No
third or below ? Yes, third

Was someone else (Paul) in the second position before the last race ? Yes, he is called Dani
And because he did not do well in the last race, Jorge rose to the second position ? Yes


Sleepingbeaver:

Are extra points (or alle the points) for the championship awarded for overall team performance? No
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Username: Wizardofnz

Post Number: 590
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2013 - 11:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is there more to this puzzle than Marc now being ahead of Jorge by a larger margin than he was ahead of Dani before the race?

(e.g. to use a completely arbitrary scoring system, the standings could have been as follows before the previous race:

Marc 45
Dani 43
Jorge 41

Jorge scores 5 points for a win, Marc scores 4 points for a second placing, and Dani's equipment spontaneously combusts at the starting line, leading to his receiving no points. The scores now stand as follows:

Marc 49
Jorge 46
Dani 43)

And Marc's lead has extended from 2 points to 3?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 79
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wizardofnz:

So is there more to this puzzle than Marc now being ahead of Jorge by a larger margin than he was ahead of Dani before the race?

(e.g. to use a completely arbitrary scoring system, the standings could have been as follows before the previous race:

Marc 45
Dani 43
Jorge 41

Jorge scores 5 points for a win, Marc scores 4 points for a second placing, and Dani's equipment spontaneously combusts at the starting line, leading to his receiving no points. The scores now stand as follows:

Marc 49
Jorge 46
Dani 43)

And Marc's lead has extended from 2 points to 3?

No more to it than that, no - I very nearly posted a spoiler after Amol's post, then decided against it figuring someone might like the chance actually to formulate an answer before I spoiled :-) - not sure if I should have posted it sooner, but here it is now!


***************Spoiler***************

This was the true current-at-the-time-of-posting situation in Moto GP, a World Championship competition in Motorcycling.

Before the race at Misano in San Marino on 15 September 2013, the table was:
Marc Marquez....233
Dani Pedrosa....203
Jorge Lorenzo...194

Marc led the championship by 30 points.

In the race at Misano, Jorge finished first (25 points), Marc second (20 points), and Dani third (16 points). This meant:
After the race at Misano:
Marc Marquez....253
Jorge Lorenzo...219
Dani Pedrosa....219 (Jorge ahead of Dani on races won)

Hence Marc currently leads the championship by 34 points, and Jorge is (but wasn't previously) in second place.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Username: Wizardofnz

Post Number: 604
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good puzzle. Normally I'm not a fan of enforced difficulty, but the ambiguous timeframe in the first sentence of your puzzle was a cunning bit of misdirection. I really would have been stuck with this one.

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