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Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 56
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He once said he'd risk prison to ensure their return.
Jondahr (Jondahr)
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Post Number: 49
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Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He=HAM?
True story?
Risk prison, meaning risk spending time in prison?
Their = group of HAM/F? Animals? Inanimate objects? Concepts? Times?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 57
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Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jondahr
He=HAM? yes, my gritty brother, although not relevant. Could have been any badass.
True story? Yes, and ongoing. Big and encouraging news for many in my part of the world.
Risk prison, meaning risk spending time in prison? yes
Their = group of HAM/F? Animals? this; no to rest Inanimate objects? Concepts? Times?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 97
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Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2013 - 6:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the animals:
- kidnapped?
- maltreated?
- endangered?
- pets?

When he said he'd risk prison, he meant it?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 62
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Posted on Friday, October 04, 2013 - 1:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik
Are the animals:
- kidnapped? no
- maltreated? no
- endangered? thisish
- pets? no

When he said he'd risk prison, he meant it? yes
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 117
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he wanting the animals returned:
- to their normal habitat?
- to their owners?
- to a zoo?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 73
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Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 1:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he wanting the animals returned:
- to their normal habitat? yes -- and willing to be militant about it.
- to their owners? n/a
- to a zoo? n/a
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 7
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Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 2:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they wild animals?
Species relevant? If so, may I invoke the LTPF list of species? (Doesn't hurt to ask!)
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 77
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Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 3:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are they wild animals? yes
Species relevant? If so, may I invoke the LTPF list of species? (Doesn't hurt to ask!) sorry, but no -- I've avoided invoking one of my own highly-exhaustive lists of merely bird orders in another ongoing puzzle, after posting an exhaustive list of occupations, so you and others are going to have to work a bit. Shouldn't take much: "mammals? quadrupeds? ungulates? reptiles? amphibians? birds?..." and the like.
Besides, there are recent estimates of 9 million or more species on earth; no LTPF list could possibly accommodate them all.
And please don't create one and post it, as I did with my posted LTPF list of occupations -- such would surely crash the old-school LTPF server, and we'd all be out of the forum.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 10
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Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 5:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, fair enough.
Mammals? quadrupeds? reptiles? amphibians? fish? birds? insects? (tho I can't imagine anyone being willing to go to prison for bugs).
Native to the USA? found in the Seattle area? found in Asia? Europe? S. America? Africa? Europe?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 78
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Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 6:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, fair enough.
Mammals? quadrupeds? reptiles? amphibians? fish? this -- that wasn't so hard... birds? insects? (tho I can't imagine anyone being willing to go to prison for bugs).
Native to the USA? yes found in the Seattle area? this... [what kind of research did you have to do? -- comments I made in the chatroom? the person risking prison happens to be my tough brother, featured in my April 2013 puzzle, "so he walked"] found in Asia? Europe? S. America? Africa? Europe?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 126
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he wanted some fish returned to the sea?
- to the Pacific Ocean?
Or to a freshwater area such as lake or river?

Were the fish
- sharks?
- coral fish?
- kept for animal testing?
- kept for human entertainment?
- in a fish farm of some kind?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 82
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Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik
So he wanted some fish returned to the sea? not this...
- to the Pacific Ocean?
Or to a freshwater area such as lake or river? ...but this.

Were the fish
- sharks?
- coral fish?
- kept for animal testing?
- kept for human entertainment?
- in a fish farm of some kind?
No to all, but there was a nasty Orca roundup some years ago at my island, and one remains in horrid conditions in a pen in Florida. Would have worked in this puzzle, almost, as there was militant talk, but this puzzle's situation is FMOE, and "I'd risk prison" is a direct quote.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 12
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Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2013 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I did no research - just guessing. I should have remembered about your brother, though.
Are the fish regarded as food fish of some kind? e.g. Salmon?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 83
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Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solo1
I did no research - just guessing. I should have remembered about your brother, though.
Are the fish regarded as food fish of some kind? yep e.g. Salmon? precisely this, but a super-special particular type -- we old-school Pacific NWers really know our fish, but if you're from elsewhere, you might have to drill down a bit. Good luck.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 136
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Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gosh... I was impressed Solo1 had delved deep enough to get 'salmon' rather than just 'fish'! But deeper still, eh... um...

Are these super-special salmon:
- a recognised sub-species of salmon?
- only found in captivity?
- found in the wild, but only local to Seattle?
- found in the wild at other places nothing to do with Seattle?

Are they regarded by most people as food? Or only a select minority?

Presumably they are not bred in captivity, else they'd be a farm?

So are they fished from a river/lake?
Then kept in captivity for period of time?
And then turned into food?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 90
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Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gosh... I was impressed Solo1 had delved deep enough to get 'salmon' rather than just 'fish'! But deeper still, eh... um... one doesn't have to delve that deep for salmon - while pelagic, they're not bottom-fish, like our beloved halibut, cod, and rockfish...

Are these super-special salmon:
- a recognised sub-species of salmon? thisish; they're a species, but something else is unique
- only found in captivity? never
- found in the wild, but only local to Seattle? wild, and specific to a location near Seattle
- found in the wild at other places nothing to do with Seattle? nope

Are they regarded by most people as food? yes Or only a select minority? the select recognize more about their worth...

Presumably they are not bred in captivity, else they'd be a farm? they're wild

So are they fished from a river/lake? sort of this, but mostly fished from salt water
Then kept in captivity for period of time? no
And then turned into food? they're prepared and eaten.
Awareness of the life-cycle of salmon isn't essential, but it helps. Pretty much anyone living near the east side of the North Pacific knows how it works, but others might be less familiar.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 138
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Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've probably seen something about salmon on the tv at some point years ago, but general knowledge not my strong point and I'm nowhere near the Pacific, so I'll try to recollect...

Do salmon live most of the year in the sea, and then swim up rivers to breed?

So they are fished in the sea, but then could be returned to their breeding grounds in freshwater?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 93
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Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do salmon live most of the year in the sea, and then swim up rivers to breed? something like that -- they reproduce in rivers after living in the sea.

So they are fished in the sea, but then could be returned to their breeding grounds in freshwater? no, when caught, they're promptly turned into food.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 14
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Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2013 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is how they are caught relevant?
By whom?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 97
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Posted on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solo1
Is how they are caught relevant? no -- although there are fishing practices that some of us seafood aficionados consider "inhumane," they're not relevant here.
By whom? no
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 6
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Posted on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 7:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there some sort of human activity near the mouth of a river that blocked the salmon from entering the river? something changed along the river that made it impassable to the salmon?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 100
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Posted on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 7:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd
nice to see you again
Was there some sort of human activity near the mouth of a river that blocked the salmon from entering the river? not this... something changed along the river that made it impassable to the salmon but this
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 155
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Posted on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did your brother want to return fish that had already been caught? Or did he want the fish to return to the freshwater area by themselves, if the change to the river was reversed?
King_louie2 (King_louie2)
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Post Number: 31
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Posted on Monday, October 07, 2013 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the waterway freeze?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 104
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Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik
Did your brother want to return fish that had already been caught? Or did he want the fish to return to the freshwater area by themselves, if the change to the river was reversed? this; his name's Jon, if that helps with posts. He's a tough and noble fellow; nearly one of my heroes.

King_louie2
Did the waterway freeze? no
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 5:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would Jon have been risking prison by destroying whatever it was that was blocking the salmon from swimming upstream? Was it a dam of some type that was in their way?
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 109
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Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 5:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd
Would Jon have been risking prison by destroying whatever it was that was blocking the salmon from swimming upstream? yes Was it a dam of some type that was in their way? it was a dam. Why this specific dam? Extra points if you can name it. Hint: it no longer exists.
And note: the eventual $poiler will illuminate much about the life cycle of salmon. My adult son, when presented with this puzzle, figured it all out in short order, but again, he was brought up knowing all about salmon...
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 166
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Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A dam made by humans?
Or by beavers?

A dam made deliberately to obstruct salmon?
Or salmon-obstruction a side-effect of the dam being made for some other purpose?

I can kiss goodbye to any extra points!
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 110
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Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik
A dam made by humans? this
Or by beavers?

A dam made deliberately to obstruct salmon? No. The indigenous people in my region built wooden-stake weirs to obstruct the salmon -- a significant part of their culture -- when they returned to the rivers, though, but that's not the case, here.
Or salmon-obstruction a side-effect of the dam being made for some other purpose? this, and it was rather too selfish on the part of the dam-builders.

I can kiss goodbye to any extra points! perhaps, but if you stick with this, I think you'll find out some interesting things. Better than extra points.
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 124
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 1:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This puzzle's not nearly as compelling as some other contemporary ones, and the basic facts have been determined, so here’s the exhaustive, but hopefully informative and engaging

*******SPOILER*******

Jon said he’d gladly blow up the Elwha River dam, and spend time in prison, to enable the salmon to spawn.

*********************
For your further enlightenment…
A note about salmon:
Salmon are born far upriver from the sea; the little fishes are known as “smolts,” and have attached egg-sacs to keep them going until they can feed on their own.
They make their way to the sea, where they eat and mature, attaining size and sexual maturity. Typically, after a few years and thousands of miles of swimming and eating, they return to the river where they were born, which is known as “spawning.” The females lay their eggs, and the males cloud the water with “spawn,” fertilizing the eggs. The spawning salmon typically return en masse, which is known as a “run.”
They make their way upriver to the spawning grounds, overcoming obstacles such as intense rapids, hungry bears, and the like. Some runs have to traverse hundreds of miles of river; as they stop eating once they hit fresh water, they’re chock-full of fat, so the best place to catch them is at the river-mouth, when they’re the fattiest.
[The Copper River and Yukon River runs in Alaska are considered the most highly-prized salmon: the spawning grounds are over a thousand miles upriver, so those fish are the fattest, which makes them the tastiest. These are well-managed salmon runs, so the fish are in no peril of extinction.]
Another peril impedes the spawning salmon: hydro-electric dams. While these are typically also constructed with “fish ladders,” which are like a series of ascending pools adjacent to the dam, some dams are built with no regard for the fish.
Such was the case with the Elwha River dam, constructed early in the 20th century. Of the several species of spawning fish in the Elwha, the Chinook [or “King”] Salmon were known to exceed 100 pounds [over 45 kg], making them legendary, and larger than any fish caught in Alaska. Although their spawning, and thus their life-cycle, was disrupted, marine biologists speculated that the run could be restored if the dam was removed.
And as the dam provided electricity mostly devoted to one private industry – a paper mill – and its removal wouldn’t have much municipal impact, activists clamored for its removal beginning around 1985.
My brother was one such: he offered that he’d blow the dam up with explosives, and risk prison, for the sake of those legendary fish.
The US government acquired the dam, and in 2011, began its removal.
Just the other day – in early October of 2013 – a friend sent me a video clip of huge Chinooks at the historic spawning grounds, and we all celebrated. We had a party, even, to honor the return of these special fish. “The Elwha Chinooks are back!”
A point to note: nature generally triumphs over human hubris.
For more about the Elwha Dam, see the Wikipedia page on the Elwha Dam.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 12
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Interesting. I've watched the salmon come upstream in a nearby creek. It's amazing how well they can jump. They're fun to watch--but on the other hand I also think hydroelectric dams look cool.

On that Wikipedia page, I saw that at one point the bottom of the dam collapsed. Now that would have been the MOST amazing to watch, to see a many-feet-high wall of water come splashing down the riverbed!

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