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Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 45
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

During my holidays, I've repeatedly been the "victim" of a certain language-related scrund. This scrund is so common that several of us, including myself, have probably acted upon it.
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 113
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Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Holidays = vacations, for the Yanks? Travel abroad, or otherwise into foreign-language territory, relevant?
which language? French, English, German? other?
homophones relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 46
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Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Holidays = vacations, for the Yanks? yes Travel abroad, or otherwise into foreign-language territory, relevant? yes
which language? French, English, German? other? other
homophones relevant? no
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 50
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOOPER: The scrund is related to languages in general. In my case, the language was none of the ones mentioned.
Sleepingbeaver (Sleepingbeaver)
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Post Number: 103
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Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this about counting? More general, about numbers?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 51
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2013 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this about counting? More general, about numbers? no to both
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 115
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 1:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the language in your case relevant? Is it necessary to pin down the language? Can we find the scrund without knowing it?
Is it related to usage? grammar? pronunciation? spelling?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 53
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the language in your case relevant? no, but in case you're curious, it was Hebrew Is it necessary to pin down the language? no Can we find the scrund without knowing it? yes
Is it related to usage? yesish grammar? no pronunciation? yope spelling? no

CLARIFICATION: The one who acts upon the scrund and the one who is the "victim" are not the same person.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 173
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with the 'victim' being assumed to know a language which they don't know? Or being assumed not to know a language which they do know?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 58
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with the 'victim' being assumed to know a language which they don't know? yesish Or being assumed not to know a language which they do know? no
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this work with any language? Just Hebrew? Some but not all other languages? Different alphabet relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 62
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would this work with any language? yes Just Hebrew? no Some but not all other languages? no Different alphabet relevant? no
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Username: Gregoryuconn

Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it work with English (or your native language if that is not English)?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 68
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it work with English (or your native language if that is not English)? You can only act upon the scrund in your native language, and you can only be the victim in a language that is *not* your native language
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Username: Kayleearafinwiel

Post Number: 12
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

faux amis relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 70
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 12:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

faux amis relevant? no
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Username: Kayleearafinwiel

Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it like where I had the scrund that Kaseburger was cheeseburger until you told me that it's cheeseburger in German too and then I asked why it *couldn't* be Kaseburger?
King_louie2 (King_louie2)
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Username: King_louie2

Post Number: 49
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 1:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sentence structure and/or word order relevant?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 72
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it like where I had the scrund that Kaseburger was cheeseburger until you told me that it's cheeseburger in German too and then I asked why it *couldn't* be Kaseburger? no

Sentence structure and/or word order relevant? no

You're all making it more complicated than it actually is!
Amol (Amol)
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Username: Amol

Post Number: 102
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it some question that one expects an answer to ? the native from the foreigner ? the foreigner from the native ?

Is it some instruction that the native expects a foreigner to follow ? a request ? a rule ?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 187
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with the perpetrator speaking to the victim with language beyond their comprehension, and not realising that they don't understand what's being said to them? Even when they do a sort of embarrassed nod of the head every so often to try to be polite ;-)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 77
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it some question that one expects an answer to ? it can be a question the native from the foreigner ? this the foreigner from the native ?

Is it some instruction that the native expects a foreigner to follow ? a request ? a rule ? could be all of these

Is it to do with the perpetrator speaking to the victim with language beyond their comprehension, and not realising that they don't understand what's being said to them? Even when they do a sort of embarrassed nod of the head every so often to try to be polite ;-) yes, this is *very* OTRT. Explore.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Username: Psydkik

Post Number: 213
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with assuming that when someone says "Yes" to something, that they actually mean "Yes", whereas in fact they often mean "I haven't a clue what you've just said because I don't speak your language, but you seem like a nice person so I'll say Yes and nod and smile and hope you go away and pick on someone else."

Eg you say "is this the way to the park", and point north. And they look north, at the road leading to the local landfill site, nod, smile, say "Yes", watch you walk north, wonder if you really were asking them if that was the way to the landfill site, and then they wander off south to go to the park.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 94
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it to do with assuming that when someone says "Yes" to something, that they actually mean "Yes", whereas in fact they often mean "I haven't a clue what you've just said because I don't speak your language, but you seem like a nice person so I'll say Yes and nod and smile and hope you go away and pick on someone else." no, but still OTRT

Eg you say "is this the way to the park", and point north. And they look north, at the road leading to the local landfill site, nod, smile, say "Yes", watch you walk north, wonder if you really were asking them if that was the way to the landfill site, and then they wander off south to go to the park. Hehe :-)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 140
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Imagine a situation in which a local says something to a stranger in a language the stranger doesn't understand. What happens next?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 217
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The stranger tries to explain the local that he/she did not understand, correct?
If yes, did the stranger explain it in local language? his native language? other language? sign language?

I encountered a situation in which I tried to explain in Italian to an Italian that I don't understand Italian language. He said: how can you not understand Italian when you speak Italian at the moment. Is this that sort of situation?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 141
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The stranger tries to explain the local that he/she did not understand, correct? correct
If yes, did the stranger explain it in local language? his native language? other language? sign language? usually English

I encountered a situation in which I tried to explain in Italian to an Italian that I don't understand Italian language. He said: how can you not understand Italian when you speak Italian at the moment. Is this that sort of situation? Not quite, but OTRT. It works best if you don't use the local's language at all.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 221
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the local understand what you said in English?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 145
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Posted on Friday, October 18, 2013 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the local understand what you said in English? I think so
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 258
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Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the local continue speaking in his/her native language? Did the local assume that you understood what he/she said? Did the local assume that you didn't understand?
Is it relevant whether the local speak English?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 150
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Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2013 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the local continue speaking in his/her native language? yes for svv of 'continue', explore Did the local assume that you understood what he/she said? yope Did the local assume that you didn't understand? yope
Is it relevant whether the local speak English? The local needs to know enough English to understand that I don't understand him
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 331
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Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the local think that if he repeats what he said slowlier, loudlier and more explicitly, you will understand?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 159
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Monday, October 21, 2013 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the local think that if he repeats what he said slowlier, loudlier and more explicitly, you will understand? Exactly! Time for the

********SPOILER********

There's a very common language-related scrund that many of you might have acted upon or been the victim of - that someone who doesn't speak a language at all will understand you if you speak slowlier.

This might work if the other person has a basic grasp of the language, but when I was in Israel, I couldn't understand a word of what people said, no matter of often or how slowly and loudly they repeated it.


Thanks for playing, especially to Psydkik and Redwine :-)

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