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Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 637
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 1:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is a unique aspect to the death of a New Zealander who died in February 1943. While the set of circumstances surrounding the death were not particularly unusual; as far as it is possible to ascertain, nobody from any other modern state shares this distinction. What is it?
King_louie2 (King_louie2)
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Post Number: 43
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Leap year relevant?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 2:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Leap year relevant? no
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 10:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm going to work on the assumption that the deceased is a man so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Will it help to establish the circumstances? illness? natural causes? accident? murder? victim of war? other?

Was his death newsworthy (at the time i mean)? anything unusual in how the death was reported or recorded? His immediate family relevant? extended family? number of surviving relatives?

Is the exact date and time of his death relevant? his age when he died?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry Wiz I posted before I'd finished.

Location of his death relevant? would he have to have died in NZ for this uniqueness to exist?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 3:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Possible $poylr emailed
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 644
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365:

I'm going to work on the assumption that the deceased is a man so please correct me if I'm wrong. you're not wrong

Will it help to establish the circumstances? yes illness? natural causes? accident? aspects of this murder? victim of war? but most relevantly this other?

Was his death newsworthy (at the time i mean)? yes anything unusual in how the death was reported or recorded? no His immediate family relevant? extended family? number of surviving relatives? no to all

Is the exact date and time of his death relevant? no - other than providing the historical context for the solution his age when he died? no

Location of his death relevant? yes would he have to have died in NZ for this uniqueness to exist? and yes!

Gregoryuconn:

Possible $poylr emailed Haven't received it. Unlikely to have if it went to the hotmail address. Please try again with the gmail address at the foot of my profile. Many thanks.
Solo1 (Solo1)
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Post Number: 24
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some geographical feature of NZ relevant?
Some biological feature of NZ relevant? e.g. some plant or animal found nowhere else?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 11:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know from later questions that my guess is wrong, so I won't bother

World War II? Was he killed in a bombing? In an invasion?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2013 - 11:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Solo1:

Some geographical feature of NZ relevant? no
Some biological feature of NZ relevant? e.g. some plant or animal found nowhere else? no

Gregoryuconn

I know from later questions that my guess is wrong, so I won't bother Fair enough. Feel free to post it in this thread, though, if you like; I'm still curious as to the solution you came up with.

World War II? yes Was he killed in a bombing? no In an invasion? no
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought maybe he died in Antarctica (I know New Zealand has territory there) and he was the only known person to be the first to die on a certain continent.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 2:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought maybe he died in Antarctica (I know New Zealand has territory there) and he was the only known person to be the first to die on a certain continent. A good and lateral answer. Apparently the first deaths on Antarctica were in 1819, and shared among the crew of a ship.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 10:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he the first to do something? The last? The first/last/only to die in a particular way/place/of something in particular?

Was he fighting in World War 2? Was he at home when he died? Was he killed by enemy action? Was he to blame for his own death? Was his death due to a fall? Illness? Shooting? Stabbing? Blood loss? Is anything about the man's background relevant? His race? Job?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 10:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not sure how to phrase this but is the proximity between the location of his death and the that of the skirmish/battle/incident that led to his death relevant?

I believe there was no actual war action on NZ during the war and that all servicemen served either at sea or abroad. Is that correct and relevant?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You note that no one from a "modern state" would share this distinction. Is it possible someone from a pre-modern state might?

Was the man a civilian? Was he a soldier? Is the man from New Zealand? If not, is he a citizen of an Allied state? An Axis state?
King_louie2 (King_louie2)
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Disease relevant? If so, vaccines relevant?
King_louie2 (King_louie2)
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Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2013 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry... didn't read back over previous posts...
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 656
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay

Was he the first to do something? yes The last? also yes The first/last/only this to die in a particular way this/place and this/of something in particular?

Was he fighting in World War 2? yes Was he at home when he died? assuming you mean country and not household, yes Was he killed by enemy action? not directly Was he to blame for his own death? no Was his death due to a fall? Illness? Shooting? this Stabbing? Blood loss? Is anything about the man's background relevant? yes His race? Job? this

Peter365

Not sure how to phrase this but is the proximity between the location of his death and the that of the skirmish/battle/incident that led to his death relevant? no

I believe there was no actual war action on NZ during the war this isn't 100% true, and this is relevant and that all servicemen served either at sea or abroad. Is that correct almost and relevant? very!

Alexanderhamilton:

You note that no one from a "modern state" would share this distinction. Is it possible someone from a pre-modern state might? I'm just covering my bases and preventing myself the hassle of researching every country that existed through time in defense of this puzzle. It's possible, but it would prove difficult or impossible to verify in a lot of cases

Was the man a civilian? no Was he a soldier? yes Is the man from New Zealand? yes If not, is he a citizen of an Allied state? An Axis state?

King louie2

Disease relevant? If so, vaccines relevant? no to both

King louie2

Sorry... didn't read back over previous posts... Shocking. I hereby bestow upon you a 3-second probation on posting on this puzzle. OK, you're good now.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 23
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 4:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he the only person from New Zealand to die in the war? The only person to die in New Zealand?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 658
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 4:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he the only person from New Zealand to die in the war? no, sadly The only person to die in New Zealand? The distinction involves uniquely dying in New Zealand due to war, but I think more fleshing/clarifying is needed to be sure that I'm not $poiling prematurely.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should the man have been at war, but chose not to go?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he shot by an enemy soldier? By a soldier on his own side? During training?
Amol (Amol)
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Posted on Friday, October 11, 2013 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he shoot himself ? Did someone else shoot him ? the enemy ? some other NZ soldier(s) ? someone from other country ?

Building on Plebeian's idea: were deserters punishable by death ?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 29
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Posted on Saturday, October 12, 2013 - 11:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he the only person to die in New Zealand during any war? And no other country has had exactly one person die there due to war? Making him the only person with that distinction?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2013 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he the only NZ citizen to be killed in NZ itself by an enemy?

If he the only NZ citizen of a particular age/ethnic/social group to have been killed in NZ in the war?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 661
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Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian:

Should the man have been at war, but chose not to go? incorrect

Enjay:

Was he shot by an enemy soldier? no By a soldier on his own side? yes, but this isn't the distinction During training? no

Amol:

Did he shoot himself ? Did someone else shoot him ? this the enemy ? some other NZ soldier(s) ? and this someone from other country ?

Building on Plebeian's idea: were deserters punishable by death ? no

Gregoryuconn:

Is he the only person to die in New Zealand during any war? no And no other country has had exactly one person die there due to war? Making him the only person with that distinction? this is incorrect, but your rationale as to why he is the only person with such a distinction is spot on, i.e. No other country has had exactly one person meeting x criteria die in their homeland during a war

Psydkik:

Is he the only NZ citizen to be killed in NZ itself by an enemy? You are painfully close. The solution involves being the only NZer to be killed in NZ itself during war-time. But it wasn't the specifics of how he was killed or who he was killed by that make it unique.

If he the only NZ citizen of a particular age/ethnic/social group to have been killed in NZ in the war? no to specifics, yes to the general concept
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Memorials, rolls of honour or medals relevant?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 8:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are any other wars relevant? Anything the man had done in the past? Was he the only NZ veteran of WW1 to be killed in NZ during WW2 or similar?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he deliberately shot by his own soldier? Was it an execution? Friendly fire? Betrayal (by the shooter)?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it was an execution, was he the only NZer to be killed for a specific crime? If so, treason?

You said earlier that his job was relevant. Was that just his job as a soldier?
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2013 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter365:

Memorials, rolls of honour or medals relevant? no to all

Enjay:

Are any other wars relevant? no Anything the man had done in the past? no Was he the only NZ veteran of WW1 to be killed in NZ during WW2 or similar? no

Gregoryuconn:

Was he deliberately shot by his own soldier? irrelevant, but no Was it an execution? Friendly fire? this Betrayal (by the shooter)? no to rest

Alexanderhamilton:

If it was an execution no, was he the only NZer to be killed for a specific crime? If so, treason?

You said earlier that his job was relevant. Was that just his job as a soldier? That's close enough for me. I don't see the sense in spending the next few days and posts putting any finer a point on it.

***** SPOILER *****

Private Walter Pelvin was the only New Zealand soldier to be killed on active duty in his home country. During a riot at the Featherston Prisoner of war camp, he was killed by a riccochet from a burst of gunfire. As far as can be ascertained, no other country has had only one soldier die on duty on their native soil.


Thank you for playing, and congratulations to all who played, especially Alexander Hamilton for providing the solution, and Peter365 and Gregoryuconn for asking some excellent questions.

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